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droid327
06-06-2013, 01:50 PM
I'd like to see a way for convenience spells - things like Teleport and DD, that dont give you an actual combat-related bonus, but just offer convenience and time-saving - avaiable (with sufficient effort) to any character.

I'm imagining something along the lines of the Phiarlan Pendant of Time, another convenience item, or the Eveningstar key, or the many Expeditious Retreat clickies. A Teleport clicky with 2 charges and recharges itself 1 charge/15 min - enough that if you use it reasonably, its always ready, unlike the Royal Guard Mask, which only recharges in-town if you sit in a tavern. A simple 1/rest DD clicky would work, too.

It could be a favor reward for a faction (Twelve?), so that it requires a significant investment in time/adventure packs to be obtainable, again like the Phiarlan Pendant and the Eveningstar key.

I dont think that casters would complain that this is stepping on their toes, either - new casters would still be able to slot these spells as soon as they were available, to immediately take advantage of the convenience if they wanted....but it would also let them free up that spell slot for something more practical during quests, if they went through the effort to obtain it. Teleport is, I think, the only spell that Arcanes can slot that has absolutely no purpose during a quest.

Bogenbroom
06-06-2013, 02:55 PM
First a comment, DD has definite combat implications, however...

Generally, yes, I would love to see an expansion of convenience mechs implements... and not ones that required ongoing TP costs. A favor reward teleport clicky would be nice. I'd also love to see a re-chargable (greater) bracelet of friends. A better mech for getting from central evening star to a central Stormreach, the Pendant of Time effect becoming a permanent feature in town areas (instead of a clicky) etc.

-Zephyr-
06-06-2013, 03:13 PM
Dimension door is a very powerful spell, that - if used wisely - can cut a lot of time from quests and / or make some of them much easier. It's not a convenience spell at all.

Teleport... There's the royal guard mask, and anyone with "sufficient" investment can UMD them and be just like a caster when it comes to teleporting.

Enoach
06-06-2013, 03:57 PM
Ah spells like Teleport, Greater Teleport and Word of Recall all have a use while questing.

They are very fast ways to get yourself out of a quest when it hits the fan and there is no way to save it.

I will agree though that these spells are just as effective scrolled as they are cast from memory.

Citzen_Gkar
06-06-2013, 04:01 PM
Personally I'd say put DDoor scrolls back in the vendor's and then UMD becomes and option for just about any of the type of spells you are talking about.

droid327
06-06-2013, 08:14 PM
First a comment, DD has definite combat implications, however...


The only role DD has in combat is as an oh-**** escape button. And in that regard, a clicky isnt as useful since it takes an extra moment to use it - and anytime you'd need to use it, that extra moment may be the difference :)


Dimension door is a very powerful spell, that - if used wisely - can cut a lot of time from quests and / or make some of them much easier. It's not a convenience spell at all.

Teleport... There's the royal guard mask, and anyone with "sufficient" investment can UMD them and be just like a caster when it comes to teleporting.

Cut a lot of time from quests? Yes....make them easier? Well no, you can always just backtrack manually, or Recall, but it takes longer/costs you XP. Saving time (or XP/minute) is the definition of convenience.

And the RG Mask would be OK if it regenerated its charges in town, or had more than 1 charge. When I was on my Sorc, I usually had at least two Teleports per trip - one to get back to town from wherever I was, and then another to get to wherever I was going. Sometimes three or four Teleports if I had a couple errands to run (crafting, buy another hireling, pick up some spell components, etc.) Having to teleport back to town, then walk to the nearest tavern, and sit and wait for the Mask to recharge defeats much of the purpose of a "convenience" spell.


Ah spells like Teleport, Greater Teleport and Word of Recall all have a use while questing.

They are very fast ways to get yourself out of a quest when it hits the fan and there is no way to save it.

I will agree though that these spells are just as effective scrolled as they are cast from memory.

As opposed to just dying? :) You end up leaving the quest either way, its just a question of if you suffer item decay and lose your ship buffs or not...


Personally I'd say put DDoor scrolls back in the vendor's and then UMD becomes and option for just about any of the type of spells you are talking about.

I thought of that, but I didnt want to promote further UMD gating. Favor (or something similar) is available to every character....UMD is not always, and the point was to make convenience something that every character has an opportunity to obtain.

Enoach
06-06-2013, 08:31 PM
The only role DD has in combat is as an oh-**** escape button. And in that regard, a clicky isnt as useful since it takes an extra moment to use it - and anytime you'd need to use it, that extra moment may be the difference :)
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Actually it has several uses in questing. Only one of which is "retreat"... Common uses are to avoid encounters that occur after triggers. One of the best examples of this is in House K with all those respawning Fire Elementals.



Cut a lot of time from quests? Yes....make them easier? Well no, you can always just backtrack manually, or Recall, but it takes longer/costs you XP. Saving time (or XP/minute) is the definition of convenience.
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when you don't have to fight that is the definition of Easier. Not only do you bypass the fight but it doesn't even agro on you. It was like you were never there. {Spooky huh}



And the RG Mask would be OK if it regenerated its charges in town, or had more than 1 charge. When I was on my Sorc, I usually had at least two Teleports per trip - one to get back to town from wherever I was, and then another to get to wherever I was going. Sometimes three or four Teleports if I had a couple errands to run (crafting, buy another hireling, pick up some spell components, etc.) Having to teleport back to town, then walk to the nearest tavern, and sit and wait for the Mask to recharge defeats much of the purpose of a "convenience" spell.
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Of course if you teleport after completion when using the mask you get an Auto Reset on the mask. As for some of your jumps and because you mention that as an arcane you actually walked {so sorry to hear that} might I recommend the Portable Hole. Best part is that it is a Tavern and pretty much a seller of all things Arcane. Also when you take the exit you are not really that far away from a Hireling vendor and smack dab in the middle of Leveling.




As opposed to just dying? :) You end up leaving the quest either way, its just a question of if you suffer item decay and lose your ship buffs or not...
.

When all is lost and there is no way to pull it off, or if the PL is just a plain jerk, a quick exit is a quick exit.



I thought of that, but I didnt want to promote further UMD gating. Favor (or something similar) is available to every character....UMD is not always, and the point was to make convenience something that every character has an opportunity to obtain.
I'm actually fine with DDoor scrolls not being vendor, and it has nothing to do with UMD gating. It has more to do with limiting the ability and preventing quests from being tailored around DDoor abuse - We don't need every quest set up like VoN4 or Shroud where a DDoor will lock a person out - Potential greifing on a wide scale is not needed.

Qhualor
06-06-2013, 09:07 PM
royal guard mask just takes a minute to recharge. when you teleport to a public area, there will be a tavern nearby. i only use mine to get back to Eberron when i want to leave Eveningstar or when a quest goes downhill. the guild ship is a good central point to get to most places in the world, but it really just takes a minute or two, depending on load screens, to get around everywhere. i wouldn't be against another teleport item that is attained like the royal guard mask. the mask is tough to farm being in RI and the quest still takes some time to complete than have to run back and forth to the quest giver if soloing.

other than that, having it so all classes could use these convenience spells doesn't really fit that D&D feel. i like convenience clickies, but not everything should be in pot or clicky form. there should be some uniqueness about each class with perks that other classes cant do.