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View Full Version : Remove cap on Maximum Dodge



Deadlock
05-28-2013, 07:56 AM
25 really isn't that difficult to get if you choose to focus on Dodge.

Here's what I'm sitting at just now:



3% Greater Ocean Stance
6% FEAT: Flurry of Blows (Centered)
3% FEAT: Dodge
2% FEAT: Mobility (Crafted)
1% Item: Bracers of Wind ML (Cannith Crafted on Craftable +3 slot)
2% Item: Head of Good Fortune (Upgraded)
3% Item: Bracers of Wind ML 16
4% Item: Seal of House Dun'Robar
3% ED: Perfect Balance (GMOF)
3% ED: Walking With Waves (in Ocean Stance) (GMOF)
3% ED: Unearthly Reaction (Magister)
3% ED: In the Weeds (Shiradi)
3% ED: In the Weeds (standing still) (Shiradi)
----
39%


https://imageshack.us/a/img694/7641/removemaximumdodgecap.jpg

Given that monks don't have an option to gain PRR from armour or shields, and given that you have to sacrifice other things if you do decide to focus on Dodge, then I can't see that it would affect game balance in any way.

In theory, I could respec and slot in Spring Attack and Combat Archery for an extra 4%, swap out non-monk classes to get Ultimate Ocean Stance for another 1% and get an additional 4% from Inspire Heroics with a bard in the party. So that would be up to 48% I make it?

So to me, the cap makes no sense at 25, it's too arbitrary a number.

Having to use Uncanny Dodge and Improved Uncanny Dodge to temporarily boost your maximum should not be the only way.

I would suggest either just doing away with the cap completely, or allow the following to increase your Maximum Dodge Bonus:



+2 Ultimate Ocean Stance
+2 FEAT: Dodge
+2 FEAT: Mobility
+4 FEAT: Spring Attack
+2 FEAT: Combat Archery (Epic Feat)
+2 ED: Walking With Waves Tier 3 (GMOF)
+4 ED: Walking With Waves Tier 3 (In Ocean Stance) (GMOF)
+2 ED: Unearthly Reaction Tier 3 (GMOF)
+2 ED: In the Weeds Tier 3 (Shiradi)
+4 ED: Lithe Tier 3 (Shadowdancer)
---
+26


There could be a lot more Epic Destinies that should offer this increase too, but I'm looking at it from a monk perspective at the moment. Hopefully others can make suggestions for the other Destiny enhancements that would offer this.

Skavenaps
05-28-2013, 08:23 AM
so

dodge 25
blur 20 (or 50 if scroll)
and 25 incorp from dark

its not enuff? i feel hard to belive. If need so badly the PRR use:

->Earth instance (you can swap on the fly right?)
->PPR augment (14, its blue)
->FotW twist.

Rogues for example have a lot LESS dodge and still need to be on light armor if wanna evade. (so low PRR also)

redspecter23
05-28-2013, 09:19 AM
I think removing the cap completely could lead to broken builds later on when more sources of dodge are released. I get that for some reason the devs are deathly afraid of someone being unhittable in melee. It's the reason why grazing hits were added and why we have a curved AC system with diminishing returns now. It's the same reason they put a "safety net" cap on dodge so we as players don't get too safe in melee. For some reason that same logic doesn't apply to spells or tactical abilities which players can save 95% of the time and mobs can fail 95% of the time (in theory of course. In practice, it takes extreme effort in higher content)

I do think the cap is too low. I'd say raise it to 50%. If I want to put the effort into gaining 50% dodge, which will most certainly come with offensive tradeoffs then I should be able to do that. Having a theoretical 100% uncapped dodge wouldn't be a problem now, but when a time comes where players can get up to that number, it would make certain combat situations trivial, though a bit boring.

Honestly, I think the real problem still lies in the AC system which breaks down in EE content and is a non factor in EH and lower content. Dodge becomes more important in EE because it doesn't have the same diminishing returns that AC does and instead is a flat bonus along with blurry and incorporeal. Defensive priorities change drastically between EE and EH and it's not something I'm a fan of.

Teh_Troll
05-28-2013, 09:33 AM
Honestly, I think the real problem still lies in the AC system which breaks down in EE content and is a non factor in EH and lower content. Dodge becomes more important in EE because it doesn't have the same diminishing returns that AC does and instead is a flat bonus along with blurry and incorporeal. Defensive priorities change drastically between EE and EH and it's not something I'm a fan of.

Give this man a cigar!

The dumbest part of the current defensive system is that AC is the LEAST important layer in the high-end content.

Regarding a dodge cap . . . I think if a toon wants to gimp itself in pursuit of 39% dodge it should be allowed to.

Veles
05-28-2013, 09:41 AM
Legendary tactics, sense weakness,brace will provide much better "defense " than some dodge, just saying.

What's the point, dodge,dodge, dodge, incorporeal,dodge ( yay ! ), death ( *** ) ?

Deadlock
05-28-2013, 09:54 AM
Legendary tactics, sense weakness,brace will provide much better "defense " than some dodge, just saying.

What's the point, dodge,dodge, dodge, incorporeal,dodge ( yay ! ), death ( *** ) ?

So you have no objection then? Excellent, thanks.

Deadlock
05-28-2013, 09:55 AM
Give this man a cigar!

The dumbest part of the current defensive system is that AC is the LEAST important layer in the high-end content.

Regarding a dodge cap . . . I think if a toon wants to gimp itself in pursuit of 39% dodge it should be allowed to.

I'll disagree with what you think gimp is, but you have no objections, excellent, thanks.

Teh_Troll
05-28-2013, 10:47 AM
I'll disagree with what you think gimp is, but you have no objections, excellent, thanks.

Taking "In the weeds" instead of "Sense Weakness" as well as all the gear slotting will cut into your DPS which is the trade-off. "Gimping" is a bit of an exaggeration.

I personally think the whole defensive system is garbage and needs serious reform . . . it's just that Turbine seems to be incapable of altering a system without making it worse these days so I'd rather they did nothing.

Deadlock
05-28-2013, 01:53 PM
Taking "In the weeds" instead of "Sense Weakness" as well as all the gear slotting will cut into your DPS which is the trade-off. "Gimping" is a bit of an exaggeration.

I personally think the whole defensive system is garbage and needs serious reform . . . it's just that Turbine seems to be incapable of altering a system without making it worse these days so I'd rather they did nothing.

Lol, you don't actually think that I would go into quests with my Dodge set to 39 when the maximum is 25 do you?

I'm simply showing what I can swap it to without any effort to illustrate how easy it is to exceed 25 which is the current cap.

All we have to do is remove the cap, raise the cap, or allow people the ability to raise it with their own Feat and ED choices, and let people set it up any way they choose. 25 is a very low cap considering you have no substantial PRR options as a monk.