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realism
05-01-2013, 03:28 PM
SO hey there guys, spent last night playing the new Neverwinter Online...
Seems to be a lot of games recently hypes themselves up and turns out to be a big let down.
Yeah I hear you, Im a fan boi, *err wrong* i hold no allegiance I am chaotic Neutral.
In any case, after downloading the game and client, which by the way must be capped or its all the other ten thousand ppl downloading at the same time, I managed to create a character on Dragon server and had to wait in que for about 40 minutes at 10pm PST(only 3 servers, hmmm sounds like a beginning of D3 oops again) the beginning graphics looked okay, not the top notch but hey we know once they start they lag behind newer stuff coming out.
Played till level 8, but here are my thoughts on it

Graphics - eyecandy is a little above so so, cranked at max but basically looks a lot like a combo of GW2, DDO, and Terra - oh and no way to set full screen at 1920 - yup sticks itself in window mode. although you really dont notice it after a while.
Quite of abit of things not syncing up and tearing from movements. But other than that, it does beat DDO's outdated graphic engine.

Environment - Most items are not interactable, you cant break barrels, go on a rampage etc, mostly no interactions or static movables. some places to search for collectable type stuff, but you need to spend money on kits before you can even use things like an arcane alter, or nature things, yup you gotta cough up dough to farm. But the non interaction with environment really detracts from it all. DDO you win this one hands down. [I dont always rage, but when I do, I break always break boxes with head ~Horig the halfling barbarian]

Controls and layout - This is typical of what MMO games have become, its a rehash of GW2 button setup, No customizable anything, you are limited to what you can immediately use, so macros? dont even think about it. If any of you have ever played Age of Conan, yup thats about it. Even WoW had a better set up than this. Your screen blacks out when you go into inventory or any other windows.
Props DDO we can run and have window open and a near unlimited bar space for macros and clickies.

Audio - Holy cow, did someone kill their audio production team, muted background music that is lack luster, Actors that really would be better off not saying anything at all, cheesy sounds and yes mouth and voice no where near working together. DDO is better but not a whole heck of a lot.

Enemies and AI - DDO kobold union workers.... its either they stand around while you hit them or they stare at you trying to drool on you, very very low AI, they wont even run at you if you are close to line of sight, so archer away and you will win the day. most places respawn the same enemies within 2 minutes of death or less. So what you will but DDO AI is a load lot better.

Quests - This one is kind of a toss up depending on what you prefer, the quest layouts etc for Neverwinter are al la GW2 exactly, everyone running around in the same area trying to kill enemies and complete quests which are the same type of quests that you would see in GW2, WoW - bring me 5 of those, kill 10 of them. Blah. DDO quest set ups are my personal favorites. Its kind of hard to achieve the diverse objectives, but then I know others like the GW2 way.

Microtransaction - sheesh you thought Turbines inclusion of astral shards was bad, Neverwinter has 4 different currencies including *gasp* Astral shards. After seeing this I had to see if Cryptic studios was owned by WB or Turbine subsidiarity. Its not.

------------------
I had high hopes for Neverwinter Online, but its kind of a let down in what I was expecting, certainly no DDO killing machine by any means. Its free to play now where as DDO only went free to play much later in the game after release. What is no doubt vexing the population of NEverwinter is those long wait ques, those who paid for their founder packs from $50 on up to $200, and others are playing the game for free and they still have to wait in line to log in.

Dont really foresee this one getting a lot of callers.

judgemonroe
05-01-2013, 04:08 PM
Not all of the NWO quests are like that. There are lots of instanced dungeons. It's a lot like if the explorer zones in DDO were public (think Smuggler's Cove or Mabar).

The multiple currencies are weird and confusing. There's coin, astral diamonds, and zen, which map pretty well to DDO's coin/shard/TP trifecta, and then there are additional currencies like trade bars and ardent coins and whatever which are transaction specific. Not much worse than DDO's every-pack-has-its-own-crafting-system nonsense.

The graphics, man, I just don't know. Is anyone complaining about the weird heads with giant misshapen eyes that look like they've been painted onto a gourd, or is it just me?

~hallenbeck
05-02-2013, 03:04 AM
Not all of the NWO quests are like that. There are lots of instanced dungeons. It's a lot like if the explorer zones in DDO were public (think Smuggler's Cove or Mabar).

The multiple currencies are weird and confusing. There's coin, astral diamonds, and zen, which map pretty well to DDO's coin/shard/TP trifecta, and then there are additional currencies like trade bars and ardent coins and whatever which are transaction specific. Not much worse than DDO's every-pack-has-its-own-crafting-system nonsense.

The graphics, man, I just don't know. Is anyone complaining about the weird heads with giant misshapen eyes that look like they've been painted onto a gourd, or is it just me?

Ya those graphics kinda suck. I mean they're worse then ddo's. It almost feels like I took a step back into the 1990's lol. For some reason the combat style reminds me of an old action dungeon crawler. Like gauntlet or diablo or something. To me, it's actually what I figured diablo 3 would look like.

It's an ok game so far though. But I feel it would need to rely heavily on grouped dungeons to overcome it's lackingness. Course then again my character didn't copyright infringe on the matrix a bunch of times while in game either so...ups and downs.

~MagisterSvid
05-02-2013, 04:55 AM
Well, I've been playing it mostly since yesterday when I can get on (and today was no problem there). For the most part I've been enjoying playing a great weapon fighter up to level 20, which I just achieved. I was looking forward to getting a mount but you really have three options: buy a really basic mount for in-game gold (and gold takes a long time to accumulate in this game so far), rent a really basic mount with tokens you're given in a gift pack you receive at level 20, or buy one with their equivalent of Turbine points: zen. Perfect World is a hell of a lot smarter than Turbine when it comes to free-to-play: I mean you have a lot more access to the game without spending a dime but I suspect they're making a lot more real money in their cash shop, though I could be wrong. I don't think you can dismiss this game as junk though it's not D&D in the sense of character development, but it offers most if not all of the things players of MMOs want and Cryptic/Perfect World updates like crazy and their games generally evolve. DDO can offer me some things Neverwinter can't, but they're going to have to be on the ball to keep their players here. That's what I think anyway.

Aussir
05-02-2013, 08:06 AM
DDO can offer me some things Neverwinter can't, but they're going to have to be on the ball to keep their players here. That's what I think anyway.
You really think all of us playing here want Wow-clones? You have no clue about the people playing here, do you?
You haven't realized yet that people here want DDO, not <insert random generic mmo>.

People that want "kill 5 of this" generic MMO's will go away no matter what because DDO is simply NOT built like that. People that want something different will stay on DDO because it's how it is built.

DDO is a niche game, always was and always will be... live with it and get over it. If you think NWO has everything a player wants, fell free to move there.

jjflanigan
05-02-2013, 08:22 AM
The biggest thing I enjoy with Neverwinter is the foundry and the ability to create my own dungeons and campaigns. That is full of win in my book.

-JJ

~Gwenndolyn
05-02-2013, 08:27 AM
I don't see a reason to have to pick. Both games have good things and bad things. To me, not getting XP for smashing barrels is a plus, not a negative, and I like the Neverwinter crafting systems about 1000 times better than DDOs. But, given that both are F2P, why choose? Play both. They're different games, but both D&D. It's just like playing in two diffrerent table top games.

~Tenet
05-02-2013, 08:39 AM
Hey lads and lasses!

I have also played NWO a little, and I must say that DDO keeps its status of the most unique game. NWO is:

Perks:
- Nice
- It has all the things a modern MMO is expected to have, from daily praying options to skirmishes and auto grouping tools
- The dungeons are fun! They have a nice dungeoning feel, just like what we have felt in DDO for a long time. Well done.

Flaws:
- The open areas.... well not that good.
- Loot is on the ground. Not unbearable, but sometimes a minigame to collect.
- Gear is boring. You know. +1 sword ML1, +2 sword ML2, +3 sword ML3...... gear power closely follows the minimum level where you can use it. Its a safe way to ensure that players have the same power level of their character, but also makes gearing up a boring sidetask. At least until you get to top level, where character development switches to gear development.
- Questing is mostly a solo experince while you level. It worked in wow, and in lot other MMOs, but I am spoiled with DDO, where soloing while possible, is best avoided. Dungeons and skirmishes are usually done in auto forced groups though. I still find DDO grouping and LFM tool to be better.

All in all, NWO is _not_ DDO. Not even aiming for it. NWO is an MMO, where DDO still is and always was a niche game, good or bad, but definitely not your everyday MMO.

Tenet

rojo
05-02-2013, 09:46 AM
The biggest thing I enjoy with Neverwinter is the foundry and the ability to create my own dungeons and campaigns. That is full of win in my book.

-JJ

Yes I would say the same also. The own dungeons and campaigns is a very cool idea. Then again it is hard to leave a game like DDo that I have put in a lot of time in,and money$$$$. So,I think DDO will push on. Yes the severs are slow. Just like when D3 and Star WArs came out. Trust me people will be back.
Always ROjO:) Sarlona

Chai
05-02-2013, 10:31 AM
The audience overlap for these 2 games will be a small percentage at best. Sure alot of people who favor DDO may try it out, but they will continue playing DDO. Those drawn to NWO will be those who favor forced cooperation, the foundry, and traditional MMOs. The people who stay here will be the build enthusiasts, and FPS players. NWO has less in common with DDO than LOTRO does. If they werent using the name D&D to market it, most of the debate wouldnt even exist.

~whom-head
05-02-2013, 11:00 AM
Thanks for those writing up your experiences. Sounds like NWO might not be worth checking out with my limited play time.

Arnez
05-02-2013, 11:46 AM
I agree with "Why not both?"

Given how OFTEN there is "maintenance" in DDO- it should offer HOURS of play time in NWO. Just sayin.


-- I think I've invested too much into DDO to give up on it and move on- but the "maintenance" IS getting to be a drag (both in Guild Decay and quantity of downtimes)- I've managed to cap characters in Champions Online, DCUO, and I suspect I'll do the same with NWO with the sheer amount of downtime DDO has had lately.

~hallenbeck
05-02-2013, 11:52 AM
I agree with "Why not both?"

Given how OFTEN there is "maintenance" in DDO- it should offer HOURS of play time in NWO. Just sayin.


-- I think I've invested too much into DDO to give up on it and move on- but the "maintenance" IS getting to be a drag (both in Guild Decay and quantity of downtimes)- I've managed to cap characters in Champions Online, DCUO, and I suspect I'll do the same with NWO with the sheer amount of downtime DDO has had lately.

hahaha truest quote of the day.

~MagisterSvid
05-02-2013, 12:01 PM
At the moment the biggest flaw I see with Neverwinter--and I'm not claiming the game is flawless by any means--is the lack of a regular in-game currency auction house. They have an auction house for astral diamonds (and unlike DDO there are ways to make the stuff in-game rather than having to only buy points) but there's none for gold. And early in the game gold is very hard to come by. In fact up until level 16 I had to spend much of the silver I had paying for enough healing potions to keep me alive. Up to level 20 I only managed to make a total of one gold piece after all of the surplus drops my character came across. My whole argument to the possible superiority of Neverwinter over DDO is that the "free player" has much more access to the game, is given much more, but also that they manage to bring in much more revenue for the game company in doing so. Cryptic's weekly updates to me suggests a gaming company with revenue to spend on development. I may get irritated from time to time when I see their aggressive marketing but when I do spend money in their cash shop I think I get more bang for the buck in theirs than in Turbine's. I spent ten bucks yesterday for 4 character slots which cost me 1000 points (I didn't read the fine print--I thought I was only buying two slots). Anyway, that's 100 points per dollar, which beats Turbine's scheme even when their points are on sale and the best thing is I never have to buy content like I do with DDO. I'm not suggesting I'm going to abandon DDO by any means but I would like the new competition make them re-think some of their gaming policies and ultimately make the game stronger.

SirShen
05-02-2013, 12:11 PM
For me its both i like DDO and i like Neverwinter foundry. I just wish i could make a foundry quest but it too over my head to try and do it without seeing what i need todo. :(

Synther
05-02-2013, 05:16 PM
Having played Neverwinter up through level 13, all I can say is that Cryptic/Perfect World has made a game that only pays lip service to Dungeons & Dragons. The lore of the world is correct but that's really about it. People that complained that DDO deviated too much from the 3.5 rules should see what NWO has done with the 4th Edition rules. It's a complete bastardization designed for the average simpleton. There is next to no real character customization aside from the eye candy of the toon. Instead, you're pigeon holed into playing a particular class and only offered limited choices for advancement beyond that.

Leveling is a complete joke and does not capture the pacing of an actual Dungeons & Dragons game in any sense of the word. Turbine at least had the foresight to use the Action Point system from the original Eberron campaign books to give the online players a bit of a feeling for accomplishment for mini-dings on their way to the next level, but overall DDO feels like a pen-n-paper game that it was based on. NWO on the other hand feels like you're playing Gauntlet. In just under an hour I easily hit level 10 and was never in any danger of dying. At one point, my cat knocked over the trash can in our bathroom. I got up, removed said cat, cleaned up the trash, took it out to the dumpster, put in a fresh bag, and came back. While I had been away, mobs had respawned and had been beating on my Halfling Trickster Rogue for nearly six minutes without actually killing me. My HP was low, but no where near death. I then promptly dispatched three assailants in under five attacks.

NWO is not Dungeons & Dragons. But it does play like Diablo III. And I'm sure it will do fairly well for the average gamer out there that is too dim to grasp the idea that this is not what the game was supposed to be like and only wants instant gratification. NWO is made for the fanboi that wants to tell everyone that they play a Dungeons & Dragons game while not having to do any work to figure out how to actually play the game and will only feel a sense of accomplishment if they're able to tell people they have a level 60 character (which would never happen in a real D&D game...ever).

The graphics are pretty for the most part. I have a bit of an issue with the eyes on some of the elves and a huge issue with the size of characters hands. I don't remember reading anywhere that a halfling's hands are nearly as long as their entire forearm. It makes them look ridiculous.

NWO is fun for casual play but if you are looking for a more realistic Dungeons & Dragons experience, DDO is definitely the game to play.

voodoogroves
05-02-2013, 05:22 PM
NWO has less in common with DDO than LOTRO does. If they werent using the name D&D to market it, most of the debate wouldnt even exist.

Amen

~KDawg
05-02-2013, 05:53 PM
You really think all of us playing here want Wow-clones? You have no clue about the people playing here, do you?
You haven't realized yet that people here want DDO, not <insert random generic mmo>.

People that want "kill 5 of this" generic MMO's will go away no matter what because DDO is simply NOT built like that. People that want something different will stay on DDO because it's how it is built.

DDO is a niche game, always was and always will be... live with it and get over it. If you think NWO has everything a player wants, fell free to move there.

This is where I fit in. Beforee DDO launched I tried WOW. Was curious about the whole mmorpg thing. Couldn't even make it past the 30 day trial before getting rid of it. DDO comes out and I am completely hooked. Others mmo games come out. I try them. Nothing has kept me around like DDO. Some come across as playing WOW dressed in the theme of whatever game you are playing. Nothing loses interest faster than leveling up a toon simply by running around for a few hours collecting 5 of this and killing 5 of that. The only other mmo I regularly play as much as DDO is Star Trek Online. The biggest reason for that is not from any stellar gameplay and such, but more I just like Star Trek games in general.

A note about the multiple currency issue. To me that is a Cryptic thing. STO has always had large amounts of forms of currencies. They did a consolidation pass one time admitting that they had to many but I think it was a cop out excuse because they are right back where they started just different forms from the original.

I close beta tested NWO and have to say that it did not suck me in enough to spend any money on it and I had actually been saving specifically for this game since it was first announced for development. I ended up putting some of that money towards Marvel Heroes, which I am also in closed beta.

I have stated this before, and this is pure opinion on my part,the decision for Turbine's new expansion this year, I feel is coming from wanting to make sure they keep their players interested in DDO over NWO. I felt this way last year when MoTu was announced and Neverwinter had not been pushed back yet. I also stated that I feel DDO has nothing to be worried about.

~MagisterSvid
05-02-2013, 07:22 PM
Do you think Turbine is satisfied with DDO being what you call a "niche game"? I think you're correct enough about that label and what I like about DDO is how it differs from more generic MMOs. Still, if Turbine is less than happy with DDO being a "niche game" how do you think the brain trust over at Time Warner feel about it? Even if you're content to dismiss Neverwinter as just another Warcraft clone, it is nevertheless the closest thing DDO has to competition within the D&D trademark and you can bet it's going to have some sort of impact, for good or bad, on this game.

phillymiket
05-02-2013, 07:28 PM
I forgot to check that out - already had it downloaded.

It looks nice. I don't feel I had much of a choice how to start.

I'm "Generic Fighter Guy".

At least I got the name "Sargon"

Anyway just wanted to point out that it's hilarious that I start the game washed up on a shore with some a Jeets wanna-be.

:-D

I always used the "So you guys meet in a tavern" start to all my campaigns myself but I guess washing up on shore naked makes sense.

Perceval
05-02-2013, 08:37 PM
The review is not accurate, 4 different types of currency is misleading, there are 3 basic currencies, Gold, Astral Diamond and Zen. Gold is used for daily needs (heal pots and dungeon kits), astral diamonds are used for the AH and Zen is used for high end convenience and decorative items. Only Gold and Astral Diamonds can be earned free in game, Zen must be bought, much like TP but can be purchase through the ZEN Broker with Astral Diamonds earned in game, so there is no need to ever drop a single dime on the game.

DDO is a better game all around if you are a team/guild player but the solo/once in a blue moon partier. Then NWO would probably be a better choice because all players in NWO are self sufficient since healing pots are staggered by level, drop for free or cost very little relative to what you earn, and way out class the healing spells. The low level pot heals for 1000 HP while the spell equivalent might hit for 100 if your cleric is lucky and fully geared to amp it.

Zagstrum
05-03-2013, 01:23 AM
Graphics - eyecandy is a little above so so, cranked at max but basically looks a lot like a combo of GW2, DDO, and Terra - oh and no way to set full screen at 1920 - yup sticks itself in window mode. although you really dont notice it after a while.
Quite of abit of things not syncing up and tearing from movements. But other than that, it does beat DDO's outdated graphic engine.

You got vertical sync on? I think its off by default


Controls and layout - This is typical of what MMO games have become, its a rehash of GW2 button setup, No customizable anything, you are limited to what you can immediately use, so macros? dont even think about it. If any of you have ever played Age of Conan, yup thats about it. Even WoW had a better set up than this. Your screen blacks out when you go into inventory or any other windows.
Props DDO we can run and have window open and a near unlimited bar space for macros and clickies.

While the limited layout is visually like GW2 I would say mechanically the game plays like Terra. What I mean is the camera forces you to lock yourself into a forward facing to actually do anything, if you have the camera turned for perspective view you can't attack, interact, do anything. Its horrible. Effectively you have 55 degree field of view in a game toting mobile combat. For someone who wants perspective vision and full control over my characters functions I'd give the controls a 2 out of 10 for effort.


Enemies and AI - DDO kobold union workers.... its either they stand around while you hit them or they stare at you trying to drool on you, very very low AI, they wont even run at you if you are close to line of sight, so archer away and you will win the day. most places respawn the same enemies within 2 minutes of death or less. So what you will but DDO AI is a load lot better.

Yep, kinda weak and after the time i've spent playing and watching my housemate (who already has a character at cap) I think whats worse is the limited variety in the AI's, I've seen 2 big guy AI types and maybe as many as 5 little guy AI types. Thats it. I've already nicknamed one of the big guy AI's as the "ima step on u guy". Guess what he does. Hes got like 6-7 skins but they all do it ;p
The thing with DDO is not that the AI is amazing but that spells and environments mix up the game enough to keep it interesting. Neverwinter lacks this.


Microtransaction - sheesh you thought Turbines inclusion of astral shards was bad, Neverwinter has 4 different currencies including *gasp* Astral shards. After seeing this I had to see if Cryptic studios was owned by WB or Turbine subsidiarity. Its not.

Steed costs like $30?

------------------
I agree with you verdict, the only thing I see going for it is possibly the foundary but i'm yet to try it too see how robust it is.

~moriedheliwas
05-03-2013, 10:11 AM
I'm a little reluctant on comparing a 7(?) year old game with a game currently in beta when it comes to both graphics and class/quest diversity. It's kinda obvious which game has what.

DDO still has better combat IMHO, that forced dodge mechanic in NWO is useless since you have to stand still to attack, and need to interrupt your attack chain to dodge.. if you can.

On customization DDO wins hands down right now, we'll see what happens after the enhancement pass...

NWO has more options to keep you occupied though, PVP and unlimited quests from the Foundry are certainly interesting. If developers would spend more time creating quality content instead of useless updates, buggy content and new -pay to bypass arbitrary restrictions we invented- schemes there would be no competition. But as it is...

Chai
05-03-2013, 10:37 AM
I'm a little reluctant on comparing a 7(?) year old game with a game currently in beta when it comes to both graphics and class/quest diversity. It's kinda obvious which game has what.

DDO still has better combat IMHO, that forced dodge mechanic in NWO is useless since you have to stand still to attack, and need to interrupt your attack chain to dodge.. if you can.

On customization DDO wins hands down right now, we'll see what happens after the enhancement pass...

NWO has more options to keep you occupied though, PVP and unlimited quests from the Foundry are certainly interesting. If developers would spend more time creating quality content instead of useless updates, buggy content and new -pay to bypass arbitrary restrictions we invented- schemes there would be no competition. But as it is...

This.

Provided NWO doesnt have lots of downtime, it will be more of an attention grabber for a bit of time. Even if NWO turned into another DDO where raids are beaten handedly a few hours after release, the Foundry is the ace in the hole for perpetual new content creation which will prevent the game from becomming stale.

My2Cents
05-03-2013, 11:39 AM
Hahaha!

So I figured, Ok, everyone's chattering about this Neverwinter Online - I wonder if they'd support my legacy display hardware like DDO does....might as well check it out.

So I spend a few hours trying to download it. At least once the download process seemed to lockup on my PC, a few times there were unexplained download errors and the message "try again later", I tried to download it to my USB drive and that was way too slow, so I did eventually download it. Went to install it where it gleefully copied the 3GB of compressed files I just downloaded to another folder then installed and updated. (And I'm on a fast, solid wired connection.)

After trying several times to pick a name, because so many were taken, I finally found a 14 character name that at least I could remember even if it wasn't very desireable. Figured out to use my email to login rather than that name, went through configuration screens, etc..etc.

Finally I could PLAY,.but just when I was about to see what Neverwinder really was like:

SERVER UNAVAILABLE.

Sheesh. Too much trouble. Guess it will remain a mystery for another day.

I haven't checked out their forums yet, either.

(Yes, I know its in beta, and yes I have seen worse, I just found the whole thing rather amusing given all the hype I've been hearing...)

~moriedheliwas
05-03-2013, 12:12 PM
Hahaha!

So I figured, Ok, everyone's chattering about this Neverwinter Online - I wonder if they'd support my legacy display hardware like DDO does....might as well check it out.


I wouldn't have high hopes, depends what you mean by legacy... then again I haven't had the need to double relog or had any kind of memory leak crashes yet in NWO :) So props for not needing to buy an SSD and 8 gb of ram to play decently for more than a few hours, I would call that supporting MY legacy hardware lol

remember1
05-03-2013, 12:31 PM
I read DDO game population has been increasing.

DDO's updates = new content so ok here

DDO must try to stick to dnd rules, not only 3.5 but using ideas from 4th and Next, for instance, there will be an increase cap this summer to 28 and thats good (4th edition goes until 30th level), but a 60th level character in dnd doesnt make sense to me!

~hallenbeck
05-03-2013, 12:32 PM
I wouldn't have high hopes, depends what you mean by legacy... then again I haven't had the need to double relog or had any kind of memory leak crashes yet in NWO :) So props for not needing to buy an SSD and 8 gb of ram to play decently for more than a few hours, I would call that supporting MY legacy hardware lol

I played just fine with an old 7900 gt nvidia card. I think it has 2.0 shaders on it. It was the new thing back years ago. Duel core amd athlon 5000 with an anchient 7200rpm 16mb cache HDD and 2 gigs of ram.

I mean it's on middle low graphics wise but still ok. I did jack graphics up all the way and it looks nice. I have to stand still or all hell breaks lose but it's a nice background picture.

After playing a bit more ive confirmed this is really kind of like an old hack and slasher. From the graphics to the gameplay. Which isn't to bad cause the graphics actually work for it. (Well if your an old gamer the past decades generations that jammed out on arcade machines and the nes/genesis.)

wesclough
05-03-2013, 12:47 PM
I downloaded all the neverwinter stuff and managed to log on and make a character, but couldn't wait through the long qeue to try out the game because it was too late that night and I had to get up early the next morning... since then I have not been able to get on no matter what time of day I try (the update server is overloaded or something according to the threads I looked at on their message boards). I am done trying... if they are gonna half-ass it on launch week, I am not going to bother seeing how they do it later on.

Ykt
05-03-2013, 01:14 PM
I currently have a lvl 37 Cleric on NW.

- very few spells: you have 2 At-will spells, 3 Encounter spells and 2 Daily spells that you pick from a total of 20 or so different spells. 7 Spells compared to a few dozens that you pick from hundreds in DDO.

- no customization: pretty much every cleric is the same, with similar HP, DPS and spells

- money grabbing: epic purple Lockboxes (like chests in your inventory) that have a chance to give you a nice reward, but you can only open them with a Key that you have to buy for $1 each. They deceive players by making them think lockboxes are rare and cool, when they are actually quite common and only have a small chance to give a good reward.
You have to identify equipment with Identification Scrolls you purchase with Astral Diamonds.
You can buy the best equipment, enchantments, hirelings and mounts with Astral Diamonds and Zen (the TP equivalent).

- grouping: there is no way to advertise a LFM, by default everyone is advertising LFM, even solo players. SO you can't put a group together as easily as in DDO. You have to ask in chat "lvl 37 cleric LFG" or "LF 1 fighter for epic dungeon", it's stupid in a 2013 game.

I'm sad I bought the $60 founder pack and spent some extra $ to buy the lockbox keys.

chance2000
05-03-2013, 01:17 PM
Both have a place.
Now I have been playing DDO for 5 years and lots of hours. You can see that by my Signature and the toons I have.
In DDO I have 2 yearly paid accounts.
Yes DDO is still my game. NWO I did buy the founder's packs and get to log in right away.
Both are fun My Smigit in NWO is now level 22 and rides either a war horse or a spider.
Been playing a drow cleric and level 28 and has both mounts.
NWO is way more hank n slash than DDO.
The only real area NWO beats DDO hands down is memory leakage.
If I were to rate the two games on a ten scale with 10 being the top DDO is a 7 and NWO is a solid 5.
Now NWO I can play with my laptop hooked up to my TV with no issues. DDO I can but it tends to lag after an hour or so.
I did create my guild in Neverwinter also. Will I leave DDO for NWO? NO!
Will I play NWO? Yes. Now I have problems with my eyes and could not play WOW it made my head hurt.
Neither DDO or NWO hurt me to play. Now Neverwinter has already had like 5 down times that I know of.
Well so has STO Star Trek Online they are the same company "Server system" One cool thing is if you have friends on STO you will see them on your friends list in NWO and can type chat with them.
The NWO forums like DDO forums have all kinds of haters.
There is just no pleasing some folks.
Well I have even been playing a bit of STO just can't play it much at a time is does make my head hurt.
Well I did suffer a closed head injury in Dec of 96 putting me in a coma for 34 days.
Well I say there is room for both games. All I care is they are both D&D which I first played in 1976.
They way I see it they just have different DM's. Where Turbine is locked into 3.5 NWO is not locked into any one type of D&D.
Looking at gaming sites they say DDO stays much closer to 3.5 rules.

~wellpers
05-03-2013, 03:10 PM
I bought a pre-purchase package for NWO so the lowest I have been in the queue is 5 and the longest I've had to wait to load is about 20 seconds. So I guess the VIP status in NWO actually works unlike DDO where it is solely a marketing thing.

I like both games. I like the fact that I don't ever have to spend a $ in NWO unless I choose to. All the quests are free to play. I think the biggest benefit of DDO is the TR option which lets you re-run content without creating a new character and you still get something permanent from it.

I don't like the lack of customization in NWO, but then again I don't like the fact that there is so much customization in DDO and the # of actual viable builds is quite small for EE end game.

If I put all the differences aside and rate on these 2 things:

Fun I had playing
DDO: 8
NWO: 8

Lack of negative/frustrating experiences
NWO: 8
DDO: 6

So despite the fact that I can name so many things I like about DDO better, for some reason I enjoy playing NWO must as much and I experience less of the negatives. I won't be quitting DDO completely by any means, but I am carefully considering whether to spend any money because I think Turbine is acting like a company that is going to shoot itself in the foot with a machine gun. So I am viewing anything I spend as very temporary.

phillymiket
05-03-2013, 05:00 PM
Well, I've played NWO for a good bit today.

I tried all the classes, leveling one to 10.

While it looks great and the manner you move through the environment is smooth, I just find it boring by comparison.

Mostly because you have very little choice in how you build your character.

Also the objectives are so spelled out for you.

There is literally a sparkly path that leads you around from place to place.

Follow sparkly path to lever, pull sparkly lever, new sparkly path leads to gate, follow sparkly path to mobs, etc, etc.

Maybe it will get interesting but so far I'm not to into it.

I have yet to encounter rubber banding and Q's but I hear complaints.

The forums seem quite active and there seem to be a lot of folks on.

~Grumpycat
05-03-2013, 06:52 PM
After saying how bad NWO is in this thread, I had to go try the free beta. It's as bad as it was. Very minimal player controlled character development, *follow me* lines to everything, must run quests (most are must run where as here you can skip most if desired), pay chat, and more. The only pluses are the environment being very rich. For me to spend money, game play comes first. And NWO is a sad disappointment in compared to it's 2 previous releases.

Condensed version... Even with all it's problems, DDO is a much better game than anything out there

Chai
05-03-2013, 09:20 PM
This is where I fit in. Beforee DDO launched I tried WOW. Was curious about the whole mmorpg thing. Couldn't even make it past the 30 day trial before getting rid of it. DDO comes out and I am completely hooked. Others mmo games come out. I try them. Nothing has kept me around like DDO. Some come across as playing WOW dressed in the theme of whatever game you are playing. Nothing loses interest faster than leveling up a toon simply by running around for a few hours collecting 5 of this and killing 5 of that. The only other mmo I regularly play as much as DDO is Star Trek Online. The biggest reason for that is not from any stellar gameplay and such, but more I just like Star Trek games in general.

A note about the multiple currency issue. To me that is a Cryptic thing. STO has always had large amounts of forms of currencies. They did a consolidation pass one time admitting that they had to many but I think it was a cop out excuse because they are right back where they started just different forms from the original.

I close beta tested NWO and have to say that it did not suck me in enough to spend any money on it and I had actually been saving specifically for this game since it was first announced for development. I ended up putting some of that money towards Marvel Heroes, which I am also in closed beta.

I have stated this before, and this is pure opinion on my part,the decision for Turbine's new expansion this year, I feel is coming from wanting to make sure they keep their players interested in DDO over NWO. I felt this way last year when MoTu was announced and Neverwinter had not been pushed back yet. I also stated that I feel DDO has nothing to be worried about.

I agree with you about the comparisons between the two types of games. Most of the industry does not however...which is why WOW hit 13m subs, is floating at around 11m right now, while most niche games like this have a few hundred thou players tops.

I find it kind of odd that players who support convenience based gaming over grinders, say the biggest drawback is NWOs lack of customization, when that very lack of customization is the epitomy of convenience itself. No need to reroll 3-4 times before figuring the game mechanics out. No trial by fire. This is what the current MMO industry is all about - the days of punishing players for failure with time consmption being the fee levied are over. The days of easy leveling and gear acquisition being handed to players on a silver platter are here.

~Teho
05-04-2013, 06:56 AM
NWO
+ inventory - no bags for crafting needed
+ better looking city ^_^, less instanced feeling
+ combat isn't a total bust, + for shield blocking, but other than that, its pretty basic MMO diablo II style
+ environment looks, feels and reacts slightly better
+ more lore
+ a skirmish window - if I got only a little time, I can join a skirmish (and hope others are available too) and the quest will start as soon as all players click ok, no running around and gathering players or waiting for them to get buffed etc.

- class restricted equipment, this is bad imo
- no multi classing or character customization, other than what gear and what combat feats u choose
- D&D is only for the name and to draw in "Drizzters"

DDO
+ amazing character generation, customization and variability, a big plus
+ has at least a bit of D&D feel
+ XP mechanic, not much kill this many mobs etc.
+ most quest can be done in groups

- well... bugs?
- player base is getting thin
- quest scaling depending on party

~Eris_Discordia
05-04-2013, 09:05 AM
Tried both, enjoyed both....

A) For all those who say DDO has more of a D&D feel I have one thing to say: Ain't seen no stupid robots in neverwinter so far.

B) It is obvious DDO is breaking.

C) DDO devs are forced to work on things like stupid pets and ribbons for memorials instead of things like fixing guild decay and/or actually making things work properly. Not cool.

D) Oh yeah. If you don't like the sparklies in NW, turn em off. Problem solved.

I'm willing to give NW the benefit of the doubt; I know some of you remember exactly how much DDO sucked when it was released, and I wonder where NW will be in 7 years...

I'm gonna guess DDO is gonna be filled with newbies using otto's boxes and the new expansion tools to start at level 16, cause a lot of us are angry at the changes that have come, or not come, to this game. In 7 years, will the enhancement pass finally be done? I'm guessing MAYBE; but it will of course, be released full of bugs that we get to pay for.

Here's to hoping someone else actually makes the D&D name worth playing again....

~Teho
05-04-2013, 09:29 AM
Tried both, enjoyed both....

A) For all those who say DDO has more of a D&D feel I have one thing to say: Ain't seen no stupid robots in neverwinter so far.



oh yeah, forgot to add

DDO
+ wf battlebots *_*

nibel
05-04-2013, 10:41 AM
A) For all those who say DDO has more of a D&D feel I have one thing to say: Ain't seen no stupid robots in neverwinter so far.

1) Warforgeds are not robots. They are more akin to golems.

2) "so far". Remember 4e Forgotten Realms also have Warforgeds, and they might show up sooner or later (But I believe dragonborns will come first)

~Eris_Discordia
05-04-2013, 11:00 AM
1) Warforgeds are not robots. They are more akin to golems.

2) "so far". Remember 4e Forgotten Realms also have Warforgeds, and they might show up sooner or later (But I believe dragonborns will come first)

Geee thank you I had never, ever heard before that some people consider warforged to be golems and not robots.

When 9 out of 10 people who watch me play D&D Online ask me why it has robots in it, it has robots in it.

If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck....

The point being, NW is immediately obvious as being a Dungeons and Dragons game, this world Eberron is not. It will appeal to some, just as some just 'put up' with the eberron world here, as there is no other choice.

Seems there is now a choice; you can play two types of dungeons and dragons... with and without robots.

(so far... and who knows where NW will be in a few years time)

Disgruntled175
05-04-2013, 11:42 AM
The biggest thing I enjoy with Neverwinter is the foundry and the ability to create my own dungeons and campaigns. That is full of win in my book.

-JJ

You can create your own dungeons in a game where any self respecting DnD player would not be caught dead...

Neverwinter should call itself WoW Champions or Might and Magic Champions or any other DnD spin off Champions because console Baldurs Gate had more character option..a crucial DnD feature.

I am absolutely amazed that they took this long to come out with this...thing.

Is DDO better than this garbage? Yes. But are you still paying for garbage...I guess that's for you to decide, I know where I stand.

phillymiket
05-04-2013, 12:30 PM
A few more observations from 2nd day of playing NWO.

The social system is a mess.

There is no division of channels (that i could find) so there is so much spam that any question you may ask scrolls away before anyone can see it.

There is no grouping system that i can see aside from putting LFG in chat or blind inviting someone standing next to you at a quest.

The areas seem much more realistically set up. Each zone doesn't feel as bottled.

The transitions from public to 'explorer' zones seems smoother.

The quests are just plain simple and surprisingly short.

There is almost nothing to think about or figure out.

I can't find difficulty settings. I hope there are some because as it is it is very easy. I have died once due to AFK at the wrong place but otherwise have not in any way felt threatened in leveling a few characters to 10-15.

The AI is far simpler for the mobs as is the spawn mechanisms which both makes it more boring but seems to make for less lag (at least for me - others complain.)

It's just not finished. It's missing classes, details, any kind of social system.

If there were more classes, feats, spells, attacks and do-dads it would feel better.

As it is now I have been able to make a healing cleric, a dps cleric, a dps tank, a tank tank, a gimp melee, a cool rogue, and a generic wizard. I can't find a way to tweak any other ways to build with the tools offered.

Also the pay options are very overt.

For example you get these boxes that appear in your inventory that spawn random loot in them that may be better than regular drop loot.

You have to buy keys with RL cash to open the boxes to get the loot.

You can't throw away the boxes. They just sit there in your inventory taking space and 'tempting' you to buy keys.

Respec'ing costs $$ as do many other things. (i think you can earn respec's with gameplay also - not sure)

You don't need these items but the game feels like it puts buy options in your face much more than DDO.

Basically, it seems real easy to jump in. It's pretty looking. It's very limiting.

I highly doubt this will be taking away from my DDO time but can see some possibilities when they finish it.

~KrelarVersion2
05-04-2013, 06:24 PM
The point being, NW is immediately obvious as being a Dungeons and Dragons game, this world Eberron is not. It will appeal to some, just as some just 'put up' with the eberron world here, as there is no other choice.

Maybe if you're familiar with 4th edition? Personally if it did not have familiar d&d names on things I would not have recognized Neverwinter as a D&D game as opposed to generic fantasy game X.

~FrotzMe
05-04-2013, 06:51 PM
Maybe if you're familiar with 4th edition? Personally if it did not have familiar d&d names on things I would not have recognized Neverwinter as a D&D game as opposed to generic fantasy game X.
My Magic-User didn't get one-shotted by a house cat, so NWO didn't seem like D&D to me. ;)

Hendrik
05-04-2013, 08:27 PM
A few more observations from 2nd day of playing NWO.

The social system is a mess.

There is no division of channels (that i could find) so there is so much spam that any question you may ask scrolls away before anyone can see it.

There is no grouping system that i can see aside from putting LFG in chat or blind inviting someone standing next to you at a quest.

The areas seem much more realistically set up. Each zone doesn't feel as bottled.

The transitions from public to 'explorer' zones seems smoother.

The quests are just plain simple and surprisingly short.

There is almost nothing to think about or figure out.

I can't find difficulty settings. I hope there are some because as it is it is very easy. I have died once due to AFK at the wrong place but otherwise have not in any way felt threatened in leveling a few characters to 10-15.

The AI is far simpler for the mobs as is the spawn mechanisms which both makes it more boring but seems to make for less lag (at least for me - others complain.)

It's just not finished. It's missing classes, details, any kind of social system.

If there were more classes, feats, spells, attacks and do-dads it would feel better.

As it is now I have been able to make a healing cleric, a dps cleric, a dps tank, a tank tank, a gimp melee, a cool rogue, and a generic wizard. I can't find a way to tweak any other ways to build with the tools offered.

Also the pay options are very overt.

For example you get these boxes that appear in your inventory that spawn random loot in them that may be better than regular drop loot.

You have to buy keys with RL cash to open the boxes to get the loot.

You can't throw away the boxes. They just sit there in your inventory taking space and 'tempting' you to buy keys.

Respec'ing costs $$ as do many other things. (i think you can earn respec's with gameplay also - not sure)

You don't need these items but the game feels like it puts buy options in your face much more than DDO.

Basically, it seems real easy to jump in. It's pretty looking. It's very limiting.

I highly doubt this will be taking away from my DDO time but can see some possibilities when they finish it.

I also understand that Quest loot, from chests, is a horrid system.

One chest, first person to open can see and take all the loot and not leave anything for anyone else. Nobody else can open the chest until the first person closes it and they will not get any loot unless the first person leaves any.

Ripe for abuse and flashbacks to the Raid Token system.

Screw that.

Chai
05-04-2013, 09:17 PM
I also understand that Quest loot, from chests, is a horrid system.

One chest, first person to open can see and take all the loot and not leave anything for anyone else. Nobody else can open the chest until the first person closes it and they will not get any loot unless the first person leaves any.

Ripe for abuse and flashbacks to the Raid Token system.

Screw that.

Similar to DDO in the old days you mean? They do have a few things to learn about loot systems and I hope they learn quickly. Like before they start putting in raids quickly.

~MagisterSvid
05-04-2013, 09:30 PM
Cryptic updates once a week in most of their games. Many of these problems are going to go away eventually. To me a lot of the criticism sounds pretty defensive anyway. Ultimately, the question isn't so much how true the game is to Gamer X's memories of his or her beloved D&D but how good a game it is on its own merits--and to a lesser extent how successful it is at attracting and retaining players.

BOgre
05-04-2013, 10:12 PM
The funnest thing about NWO I've found is Tiefling Playable Race. Everything else is just WoW. Stupid scavenger hunt non-instanced boredom. Stand and fight / Stand and cast is just SO lame. Loot stealing is also not good.

As for the non-existent grouping options people are complaining about, well, the Social panel is 'O' just like in DDO. Pretty easy to make/find LFMs without looking at the crammed chat channels.

Right now, 4/10.
If they tone down the microtransactions, fix loot mechanic, and completely do away with WoW scavenger hunts, maybe it'll get to 6/10.

DDO still wins.

Hokiewa
05-04-2013, 10:55 PM
I've surprisingly enjoyed NWO so far. It absolutely is a far different game then DDO and despite some in this thread who managed to play for 4 hours to get to level 15, there are some pretty creative Foundry quests. Comparisons are unfair to both games. The only thing killing DDO is Turbine/WB.

~hallenbeck
05-04-2013, 11:07 PM
I've surprisingly enjoyed NWO so far. It absolutely is a far different game then DDO and despite some in this thread who managed to play for 4 hours to get to level 15, there are some pretty creative Foundry quests. Comparisons are unfair to both games. The only thing killing DDO is Turbine/WB.

especially if even half of that horrific thing they call fixing comes to see the light of day of live. I can only wonder if it goes into the expansion, can we stave off the sheer wall of * by not downloading it?

Pr8Dator
05-05-2013, 06:40 AM
Somehow, I think NWO is a good marketing piece for DDO because alot of people disappointed with the simplicity and lack of "D&Dness" of NWO, like myself, has come to join DDO!

Having played both games at about the same time, I chose to pay over $160 playing DDO this month so far and I am here to stay... the character building and complexity is exactly what I expect of a D&D game and the community so far has been AWESOME! Everyday I see new players coming into stormreach and I think instead of dying to NWO, DDO is flourishing because of it. :)

~wellpers
05-05-2013, 07:27 AM
I also understand that Quest loot, from chests, is a horrid system.

One chest, first person to open can see and take all the loot and not leave anything for anyone else. Nobody else can open the chest until the first person closes it and they will not get any loot unless the first person leaves any.

Ripe for abuse and flashbacks to the Raid Token system.

Screw that.

You have zero credibility you think even the bugs and disasters in DDO are wonderful and are full of sunshine and happiness.

It's a different system and has its positives and negatives just like DDO. It's on it's way up rather than down so it's likely to outlast DDO.

Hendrik
05-05-2013, 07:41 AM
You have zero credibility you think even the bugs and disasters in DDO are wonderful and are full of sunshine and happiness.

It's a different system and has its positives and negatives just like DDO. It's on it's way up rather than down so it's likely to outlast DDO.

What part of my statement has no credit? Is that not how the chests function? Why yes, it is.

Not even comment on how bad the Foundry can be abused to reach 60 in a couple hours.

So, your a mind reader too?

Praytell, what am I thinking now?

You really need to try harder to troll - better luck next time.

~Vint78
05-05-2013, 08:38 AM
I tried out NWO yesterday, and it was okay. A little to wow like for me, but it had its good points. I have quite a few guild and channel buddies over there so it seemed more enjoyable.

If nothing else I hope NWO does well. Maybe with some player and income loss, Turbine will get their head out of their *** and get some stuff straight around here.

Uska
05-05-2013, 10:12 AM
This.

Provided NWO doesnt have lots of downtime, it will be more of an attention grabber for a bit of time. Even if NWO turned into another DDO where raids are beaten handedly a few hours after release, the Foundry is the ace in the hole for perpetual new content creation which will prevent the game from becomming stale.

It doesn't need to become stale it starts out that way boring from the start bleh

TheNewSlarden
05-05-2013, 01:14 PM
I don't really have all that much MMO experience. I've mainly played DDO with some Star Wars the Old Republic and recently NWO.

I've played just about all the versions of D&D and for the most part the rule changes didn't make much difference to me. We rolled up characters and played in a world created by one of our friends or from time to time we used a pre-packaged adventure. We never fully played by the exact version of any rule set except when we played RPGA - so it changed very little for me.

NWO has really worked out well for my local gaming group. We are a mixed group that first and foremost enjoys face to face games. Some play MMOs almost every night. Others play a few times per month. Since the others play less than I do I've been able to play DDO as well. And I still enjoy many aspects of DDO.

NWO has a very good offering as does DDO. I don't think bashing NWO or singing its praises are going to make much of a difference to anyone. I think NWO is worth a try if someone is curious about it, but I would wait a few weeks until the volume decreases a little. I don't have to wait in queues since I bought a package, but I know others have told me they had long wait times. That will probably be less of a problem in a few weeks unless the game continues to draw huge amounts of people.

For me the big draws of NWO are:

1) No gulid decay. I can group with my small group of face to face friends without having to worry about running content really fast or how much the people in my guild play. The NWO guild function is social with no pressure or punishment mechanisms. Decay takes a lot of enjoyment out of DDO for me and many others.
2) The foundry. I am really enjoying running my friend's quests. There are 16,000 foundry quests in process as of 5/1. This is a great tool set and a fantastic idea.
3) I understand their strategy and they actually issued a whitepaper explaining how they are monetizing the game and why. It seems to make much more sense to me than Turbine's approach. This gives me confidence that the game will be around for a while and that they know what they are doing..

noneill
05-05-2013, 01:36 PM
I have played this since headstart and messed around in NWO taking a Guardian Fighter to level 10. Fun to play when nothing is going on in DDO. It does not feel like you are playing any version of a Dungeons and Dragons game though. No relation to pnp, old school crpgs like Baldurs Gate or the original Neverwinter. The mechanics and character building (if you can call it that) just bear no relation to Dungeon and Dragons imho.

However it is still fun, it feels like you are playing a game based on the Forgotten Realms books. So a game based on the books based on the game, lol.
So if you enjoy reading the books and are into the lore and iconic DnD monsters it is fun for a break. If you want to have any kind of control over your build it is sucky.

I do wish DDO could have some of the new bells and whistles that NWO has though. Mounts, inventory system, cosmetics etc.

~Grumpycat
05-05-2013, 02:10 PM
I do wish DDO could have some of the new bells and whistles that NWO has though. Mounts, inventory system, cosmetics etc.

Mounts are fine in NWO because of how public areas are set up. Long drawn-out distances, slow paced characters that have to use up stamina that runs out quickly to run faster, Endless miles of dead space where it serves no purpose outside of eye candy. Not my idea of a good game. It's one of the reasons I despise WoW and EQ2. Forever walking with no purpose other than to kill game time.

Inventory system is same ol' same ol'. The only features I could add to DDO's inventory system is a sorting mechanic that can differentiate between locked and unlocked and sort the locked to the front of your inventory and the unlocked to the back (or vsv).

NWO and games like it are played. They're watched. I would get just as much enjoyment out of watching a DnD movie as play them. DDO is unique in the fact that you have full character development control just as you do in PnP. And with LR, GR and TR, it gives you the ability to fix mistakes. All of the other games make you reroll.

I played NWO in play testing and recently beta played it and it flat sucks. The expectation that they would somehow bring the game they had to an MMO was crush on first play. I was drawn into NwN because of character development. If I were left with that for a choice, I would choose netflix.

blaze44
05-05-2013, 03:30 PM
At least I got the name "Sargon"


Names are not unique in NWO, there can be a 100 Sargon's running around.

Overall it is not DDO, but it is fun to play.

Beethoven
05-05-2013, 06:08 PM
You have zero credibility you think even the bugs and disasters in DDO are wonderful and are full of sunshine and happiness.


NWO's launcher crashed after an auto-update so bad it took them hours until people could get on the game.
The game bugged out so bad you had ten seconds of lag interupted by one second of gameplay. So they had to take the game down Shard by Shard to fix it.
NWO's network code died resulting in players (including those who paid fifty bucks on pre-order) got stuck in queues for 2+ hours.
That was just the first day and ever since people continue find bugs.

Sounds to me like both games have their occassional disasters and stuff wrong with them. So how again is his opinion less credible than those who post in defense of NWO? Nevermind that he posted a supporting fact while all you have is personal attacks.

Same goes for "listening" to the playerbase. During both (closed) beta numerous players posted strong objections to
* not every player getting an own chest, but only one with loot being first come/first serve.
* picking up loot from the ground causing a window to pop up for everyone prompting them to choose need, greed or pass (distracting and annoying when you are in combat)
* the mechanic allowing party leaders to kick a group at any time (including in the middle of the end fight), auto-ejecting the whole party from the quest (skirmish).
* the lack of cosmetics in gear choices (ie: you are a Guardian Fighter you are going to run around dressed platemail, wielding a longsword and a shield)
All of these things made it into the game. So, it sure looks like DDO and NWO have in common that not every player suggestion/objection makes it into the game right away and it'd be as easy to accuse Cryptic of ignoring (or being out of touch with) their playerbase.

* The DDO store offers items to shave some time off the end game grind and level (raid time bypasses and leveling stones). NWO allows you to use the Foundry to cap within a weekend and then simply outright buy end-game gear with cash.
* DDO is instanced. NWO has outdoor area which are not instanced and quests which are.
* DDO is fairly complex and versatile in terms of build options and gear, NWO isn't only based on 4e (which already offers less character options) but a watered down version (making it extremely easy to understand but also limited to cookie cutter builds; ie: * Control Wizard, Trickster Rogue, Devoted Cleric, etc.)
* DDO has mobs using a limited AI and (often) complex pathing to simulate real-time combat, NWO relies heavily on scripts for their combat.
* DDO charges for (some) content. NWO uses more "sublimal" ways to get their money; ie: vast distances you need to travel to make you buy a mount, boxes that take up inventory space and are auto-pick up by getting close (and require cash to open), and world broadcast displaying in the middle of your screen every single time someone purchases a key for the boxes.
* DDO uses systems like Past Life which give you small, but permanent boosts for long-term motivation. NWO uses a Foundry, although end-game the only point dabbling with Foundry quests is for the fun of it since the Foundry cannot give end-game gear (and you obviously no longer need XP).
* DDO has items in their store allowing self sufficient toons to keep going (ie: Mana pots), NWO has stuff in their store allowing all builds to keep going (superior healing pots).
* Character Death in DDO has but minor consequences but allows for failure by ejecting you from the quest/raid upon release, and wear and tear on items/gear until it eventually breaks. Death in NWO has virtually no consequence. There is no item wear and releasing only teleports you back to the latest campsite (think rest/resurection shrine).

Personally, I find NWO's store (and the way Cryptic goes about promoting it) significantly worse than DDO. The game itself is, however, more free (DDO's ftp version sucks way worse than NWO's). Yes, the list of issues (past and still existing) is longer with DDO, but DDO also had seven years to collect such history, NWO had a week.

Bottom line:
NWO and DDO share in common that they are cheap yet imperfect entertainment (coming for free or are perfectly playable with but minimal expanses which is reflected in a low overhead that could go to extensive QA and/or CC. Both companies do what /they/ think best for the game, using some community imput and dismissing others.

I still don't see NWO competing directly with DDO since both target a different audience. DDO is still the best game to go for people who enjoy potentially complex games with lots of build options and little limitation in combat (ie: movement related real-time combat). NWO appears more a direct competition for games like LotR and Rifte and (imo) a currently superior product for those who like WoW-type of games.

~JackPipsam
05-05-2013, 06:21 PM
Why not both?

~bob117
05-05-2013, 07:10 PM
Am downloading it as we speak. Personally cannot wait to try it.

It does look rather fun. I am not expecting a ddo clone. I actually am hoping its drastically different. Otherwise i would just play this game....

I think another D&D game may be good for this one. Turbine needs something to keep em on their toes and push em forward. This could very well be it! From the vids and stuff i watched it seems Neverwinter "borrowed" some idea's from DDO. Maybe Turbine could benefit from doing the same. Competition between companies keeps them evolving and being intuitive with their products. It could very well be what DDO needs to push forward and change for the better!

But who knows? Will try game after supper and report back.

Chai
05-05-2013, 09:29 PM
NWO's launcher crashed after an auto-update so bad it took them hours until people could get on the game.
The game bugged out so bad you had ten seconds of lag interupted by one second of gameplay. So they had to take the game down Shard by Shard to fix it.
NWO's network code died resulting in players (including those who paid fifty bucks on pre-order) got stuck in queues for 2+ hours.
That was just the first day and ever since people continue find bugs.

Sounds to me like both games have their occassional disasters and stuff wrong with them. So how again is his opinion less credible than those who post in defense of NWO? Nevermind that he posted a supporting fact while all you have is personal attacks.

Same goes for "listening" to the playerbase. During both (closed) beta numerous players posted strong objections to
* not every player getting an own chest, but only one with loot being first come/first serve.
* picking up loot from the ground causing a window to pop up for everyone prompting them to choose need, greed or pass (distracting and annoying when you are in combat)
* the mechanic allowing party leaders to kick a group at any time (including in the middle of the end fight), auto-ejecting the whole party from the quest (skirmish).
* the lack of cosmetics in gear choices (ie: you are a Guardian Fighter you are going to run around dressed platemail, wielding a longsword and a shield)
All of these things made it into the game. So, it sure looks like DDO and NWO have in common that not every player suggestion/objection makes it into the game right away and it'd be as easy to accuse Cryptic of ignoring (or being out of touch with) their playerbase.

* The DDO store offers items to shave some time off the end game grind and level (raid time bypasses and leveling stones). NWO allows you to use the Foundry to cap within a weekend and then simply outright buy end-game gear with cash.
* DDO is instanced. NWO has outdoor area which are not instanced and quests which are.
* DDO is fairly complex and versatile in terms of build options and gear, NWO isn't only based on 4e (which already offers less character options) but a watered down version (making it extremely easy to understand but also limited to cookie cutter builds; ie: * Control Wizard, Trickster Rogue, Devoted Cleric, etc.)
* DDO has mobs using a limited AI and (often) complex pathing to simulate real-time combat, NWO relies heavily on scripts for their combat.
* DDO charges for (some) content. NWO uses more "sublimal" ways to get their money; ie: vast distances you need to travel to make you buy a mount, boxes that take up inventory space and are auto-pick up by getting close (and require cash to open), and world broadcast displaying in the middle of your screen every single time someone purchases a key for the boxes.
* DDO uses systems like Past Life which give you small, but permanent boosts for long-term motivation. NWO uses a Foundry, although end-game the only point dabbling with Foundry quests is for the fun of it since the Foundry cannot give end-game gear (and you obviously no longer need XP).
* DDO has items in their store allowing self sufficient toons to keep going (ie: Mana pots), NWO has stuff in their store allowing all builds to keep going (superior healing pots).
* Character Death in DDO has but minor consequences but allows for failure by ejecting you from the quest/raid upon release, and wear and tear on items/gear until it eventually breaks. Death in NWO has virtually no consequence. There is no item wear and releasing only teleports you back to the latest campsite (think rest/resurection shrine).

Personally, I find NWO's store (and the way Cryptic goes about promoting it) significantly worse than DDO. The game itself is, however, more free (DDO's ftp version sucks way worse than NWO's). Yes, the list of issues (past and still existing) is longer with DDO, but DDO also had seven years to collect such history, NWO had a week.

Bottom line:
NWO and DDO share in common that they are cheap yet imperfect entertainment (coming for free or are perfectly playable with but minimal expanses which is reflected in a low overhead that could go to extensive QA and/or CC. Both companies do what /they/ think best for the game, using some community imput and dismissing others.

I still don't see NWO competing directly with DDO since both target a different audience. DDO is still the best game to go for people who enjoy potentially complex games with lots of build options and little limitation in combat (ie: movement related real-time combat). NWO appears more a direct competition for games like LotR and Rifte and (imo) a currently superior product for those who like WoW-type of games.

I see NWO surpassing DDO once they have an established endgame. Most of the DDO players have an opinion like yours, including myself, but the majority of the MMO market does not.

As far as the opinions about complexity, its a comparison between a 7 year old game, and a 2 week old game. I would certainly hope the 7 year old game has the 2 week old game beat, or they are in trouble. DDO wasnt very complex right out the gate either, with no enhancement system, no AH, and no character respec. Most ofthe MMO world doesnt want to deal with having to go through a few toons before being able to attain enough knowledge to make a good one. While most people playing DDO still want their complexity, most people in the MMO world dont want to deal with spending large amounts of time leveling gimps they will either have to delete or respec anyhow.

As far as "direct competition" - There isnt too much overlap in the audiences which will want to play both religiously. There is a decent enough sized audience who gets what they want quickly after new DDO content comes out, and when it gets boring for them again shortly thereafter, they may end up in NWO for the remainder of that time.

chance2000
05-05-2013, 11:07 PM
I like both DDO and Neverwinter.
Been playing DDO like 5+ years Neverwinter more since the 25th.
NWO does get much harder after 20.
I have 3 toons above the 20 mark there now.
Smigit is level 25 Dwarf Guardain fighter
Xailar is 28 Drow Cleric.
Xaxx is a Theifling Control Wizard level 22.
Now NWO has had a bit of down time since the 25th more than 1/2 dozen times it has been down.
At some point they plan to merge the 3 player shards to one shard.
Some of the player made content is very good only thing is Cryptic picks the end reward and not the person that made it in the foundry.
I doubt DDO has anything to worry from NWO. It is funny every time NWO goes down so does STO Star Trek Online.
Seeing that I first played D&D in 76 with a bunch of different DM's.
My take is that I have 2 DM's running 2 different campaigns.
I can say this both DDO and NWO are better than some of the DM's I have had over the years.
Now I last played PNP D&D after Dragonlance. They guys I played with would always want me to DM and that whole RL thing prevented that. So as of the late 80's the only D&D I had was computer and more so the novels.
I was allowed to read on the job.
I like Neverwinter I just like DDO more.

blaze44
05-05-2013, 11:24 PM
There is a decent enough sized audience who gets what they want quickly after new DDO content comes out, and when it gets boring for them again shortly thereafter, they may end up in NWO for the remainder of that time.

this is sort of where I am at...

I was bored 2 weeks after Epic GH was released. To me same stuff just higher difficulty.

Been playing NWO the past 2 weekends. Having fun, it is an ok game. The Foundry is interesting also, player based content. Having some fun playing with that.

I prefer DDO and its character complexity, but NWO is fun for a D&D type action game.

Inthuul
05-06-2013, 09:37 AM
Until Neverwinter allows players to be able turn off mouselook and bind turning to keys it's totally unplayable for me. Way too nausea inducing.

TrinityTurtle
05-06-2013, 11:12 AM
While I agree with Chai about the majority of mmo players liking really boring games, I don't. I tired Neverwinter online over the weekend, and absolutely hated it. I had never been that bored by a game that fast. It just...wasn't fun at all. I wanted to like it, since DDO IS an aging game, and aging things in cyberspace have an upcoming enddate no matter how much we like them. And I'd like there to be something to fill my time for when the inevitable does eventually happen. So now my eyes are turning to Elder Scrolls online, and I hope for a game that requires some though and tactics beyond teleporting around to not get hit and mashing one of six buttons.

I think the only thing I actually liked about it was the glittery path that kept me from getting horribly lost. Ask my guildies, they have to come find me all the time, I have a talent for getting lost. :) Oh, and I got a brief laugh out of the Baldur's Gate Reference when I tried to start a quest while I was waiting for the husband to catch up and it said "You must gather your party before venturing forth". But then I got annoyed that I had to stand around doing nothing and waiting until he was done doing whatever he was doing.

~bob117
05-06-2013, 11:43 AM
Well i played it all night! Kinda getting the hang of it.

Way to much running back and fourth to quests for my liking. Run here. Run there. Run back. Also my armor skin has not changed now for 17 levels. It looks identical to first outfit i got . Kinda strange game. It is like a mix of torchlight and DDO almost.

The kobolds are ugly and do not talk like Elmo. So far from my all nighter playing the game i would rate it a 7 out of 10. Just because it is free right now , Was pretty small download and playing a tiefling with a tail is a nice change. Was def worth a try for any D&D fan. The grafix were sub par to say the least. DDO has better grafix. I got no lag on Dragon server/shard. None what so ever. Loading was fast. The Gen chat was packed with spam but thats expected.

Building your toon is very torchlight like or diablo style. Same type of trees and stuff to boost with stat points every level. Flexible but still very limited compared to this game! I only tried a caster so cannot comment on hand to hand combat. Will roll up a melee toon tomorrow. Casting was fun though on a CC wizard. Limited in the first few levels but gets better as you go. Some really nice Crowd control concepts and animations.

The micro-transactions were pretty gnarly. At one point you even walk by a girl in the main town and she says" Come spend your astral shards on my fine rare treasures" In a real voice! It uses 3 currencies. Zen, Astral shards and gold/silver/bronze . I looted a nightmare treasure box from some enemy that apparently had chance of dropping good loot but the only way to open the box was to buy a key from the store. Thought that was kinda a cheesy tactic, But whatever. It has the same " Identify" unidentified loot that Torchlight and Diablo use. You use scrolls to do this. They can be looted or bought from the store with real money, But as far as i could tell there was no where to actually buy the identify scrolls with in game plat. I did loot a ton of em so i would suspect this is just a cash grab. I also ended up winning Astral shards from a Diety i worship. You can pray to em every hour and win stuff. These are pretty much what you buy Things off AH with. I did not see a gold auction house. only astral shard.

I do not think its the type of game many DDO'ers have to worry about stealing to many customers. Although it was really neat seeing a game so thriving with so many people.

If you dug Torchlight and like DDO. Then this game is right up your ally!

That said, DDO needs a big year and also needs to find some way to attract some new blood to the game. The bugs, lag, balance problems, and all the nonsense we put up with needs to be addressed by Turbine. They can thank their lucky stars this Neverwinter game is not amazing!

Magusrex
05-06-2013, 11:53 AM
One of the huge things NWO has going for it atm is that it is does not have such a strong anti new player segment of its population because the game is new. My wife and I own a lot of DDO content. We bop around between DDO, EQ2, LOTRO, Age of Conan, TERA and now NWO. We haven’t been back to DDO for a while in large part due to the anti new player segment of the population. Grouping LFMs are often unfriendly right from the title or notes.

We probably have forgotten quests we used to know, or don’t remember where X quest is given. We know that just requesting a share can get you booted. We will not be able to go as fast as people would like, so we usually just end up logging in to something else because we have choices. It is actually sad because we like the game and play style in DDO, the traps and dungeon crawl aspect are without compare but the intolerance here is not worth it.

I know there are some very helpful people here but when you want to do a quest, one that we have not done(which is the ones you really want to do), we can fill the roles needed and its says, know the quest, don’t die ect. Lower level stuff we were able to duo with hirelings but as we got close to the cap it was the people here who keep us away because you need to group. You could justly call me a Turbine fanboi, but even that does not overcome the feeling of knowing you are unwelcome.

We have been having fun playing NWO. I can’t comment on the shop because we never spend in a shop until we reach higher levels. I can tell you, I have not felt like I have been missing anything by not purchasing anything. I am not bitter about DDO either. I feel like the money we invested here was worth it and even if we never play again we have received excellent entertainment value for the dollars invested.

I am uncomfortable saying which game is better or comparing features because the comparative age of each game. What I will say is when presented with the choice to log in to all the games I mentioned above and even though I own much content in the other games, we are having the most fun playing NWO atm, so that is where we are logging in.

I always tell everyone, do not trust the forums or others opinions in today’s MMO landscape with extended trials and F2P. Go experience it for yourself. You might find some permanent or temporary fun or you might find a new appreciation for the game you have been playing. Give it a fair shot, play the new game until the leveling slows down and you have chance to get a real feel for the controls, playing for 30 mins doesn’t do much.

sha123
05-06-2013, 02:27 PM
nw is just another typical mmorpg. Only thing unique about nw is its foundry system, where you get to create ur own maps, similar to warcraft. I got bored of nw after 1 week playing it, cos its pretty much the same stuff over and over again. I prefer ddo over nw anyday.

Right now, im just waiting for ESO ( elder scrolls online).

~hallenbeck
05-06-2013, 09:29 PM
nw is just another typical mmorpg. Only thing unique about nw is its foundry system, where you get to create ur own maps, similar to warcraft. I got bored of nw after 1 week playing it, cos its pretty much the same stuff over and over again. I prefer ddo over nw anyday.

Right now, im just waiting for ESO ( elder scrolls online).

Ya the foundry's nice but they really gotta get their **** together. That whole system of grouping and finding other people is all bunked to hell. Then the interface seeming to close out at a movement with camera zoom unavailable in action mode just all adds up to an annoyance after awhile.

I hope they're taking notes in beta.

Darthsarlacc
05-07-2013, 12:18 AM
nm

~Gilderon
05-07-2013, 02:10 AM
I have played other mmos, but ddo is the only one in which I have not been a member of a large guild.

I pug almost exclusively and have noticed the same thing. DDO has a real problem with new players mixing with longtime players, its like trying to mix oil and water. DDO will never reach mainstream appeal unless it institutes newplayer hand holding mechanisms that longtime players hate so much.

I rarely post, but yes I agree with this sentiment whole-heartedly. Still I love the game, and am waiting for the good guys to come back and pug. Seems hard to find groups currently and although I belong to a fair sized guild most are not EU based.

Still not very tempted by NWN but maybe ESO?

TheNewSlarden
05-07-2013, 06:41 AM
I have played other mmos, but ddo is the only one in which I have not been a member of a large guild.

I pug almost exclusively and have noticed the same thing. DDO has a real problem with new players mixing with longtime players, its like trying to mix oil and water. DDO will never reach mainstream appeal unless it institutes newplayer hand holding mechanisms that longtime players hate so much.

I don't have much experience with other MMOs, but I agree with this.

This is something the devs completely missed when they made the guild change last Fall. There is one large guild on Sarlona that will take anyone, Bathory Hordes, as they have an open recruitment policy. Most of the high level large guilds running raids want vets and it has nothing to do with renown, it has to do with ensuring the reputation of their guild remains strong. There were a few people running open raids on Sarlona that I joined frequently. They joined a large guild after the guild system was changed and now participate in the guild runs instead - so now I pug since those were the only 2 people that would invite my character to forming raids before the lfm went up. Another person that hosts raids frequently invites only my healer that is a first lifer, but I am rarely on as that toon. I don't mind healing raids, I used to do it frequently with shroud, TOD, etc. But now that everything is btc I only switch to my healer if the party can't seem to find a healer I did have decent success finding pug Fall of Truths and Caught in the Webs to join, but recently I am just focusing on TR'ing so I don't know how it is now. I don't feel comfortable running raids even if I know them well.

So for the most part I am just tr'ing my toon while also enjoying NWO with my more casual friends.

My2Cents
05-07-2013, 07:44 AM
Until Neverwinter allows players to be able turn off mouselook and bind turning to keys it's totally unplayable for me. Way too nausea inducing.

In my brief look at NWO (after navigating downloading and uptime issues) I found the mouselock to be my personal #1 annoyance, and I couldn't even find a keyboard shortcut help page or any reasonable UI configuration options. I was not looking for anything fancy, its a beta game, but there are some basic minimums that traditionally go into even BETA software.

But that forced mouselock..and the idea that it was forced....

voodoogroves
05-07-2013, 08:32 AM
I've attempted to play it.

I'm not a fan of constant mouse-directional. It irks me that I can't POV lock and turn strafe. Too much Quake for me I guess. Do not like the lack of activity in gameplay ... move or attack, no attack on the run, etc.

Quests seem flat. Character generation is essentially a railroad.

No desire to play a D&D flavored Diablo.

Maybe once it gets some legs, some mass behind it and varied options at least at paragon/epic levels.

Arnez
05-07-2013, 09:13 AM
Update: I still agree with the "Play Both" stance. After playing some of the Foundry quests- I find them interesting and varied.
Lock-boxes are kind of annoying (in a blatant money-grabbing way) But the hourly chance for astral shards can get addictive ("Oh only 22 min til I can try again?- I'll just run another foundry quest")

DDO- has a great deal more polish, but it's also been out for 7 years.

NWO is "Ok" coming out of the gate, add polish and who knows?

Mouse-look is forced. They need to fix that SOON.

Skyships > Airships

If they make Guild-based Skyships (in a system with no guild decay......DOOM)

AnubisPrime
05-07-2013, 11:43 AM
I think NWO will shape up and become it's own niche. I look at it as something different from DDO.

Hell, I dabble just a bit into Mechwarrior Online, because I loved MW2 back in the Win95 days.

I don't try to compare the games too much anymore... I did before, but I find it's not productive.

thenerfed
05-07-2013, 12:19 PM
I have played other mmos, but ddo is the only one in which I have not been a member of a large guild.

I pug almost exclusively and have noticed the same thing. DDO has a real problem with new players mixing with longtime players, its like trying to mix oil and water. DDO will never reach mainstream appeal unless it institutes newplayer hand holding mechanisms that longtime players hate so much.

It isn't just that, its that Turbine sees new players as suckers who will buy up vendor **** with turbine points and leave. Also Trubine's handholding is designed to gently and firmly steer new players into playing complete gimps (read the rest of this web page: they encourage charisma-based favor souls on the front page).

thenerfed
05-07-2013, 12:23 PM
Update: I still agree with the "Play Both" stance. After playing some of the Foundry quests- I find them interesting and varied.
Lock-boxes are kind of annoying (in a blatant money-grabbing way) But the hourly chance for astral shards can get addictive ("Oh only 22 min til I can try again?- I'll just run another foundry quest")

DDO- has a great deal more polish, but it's also been out for 7 years.

NWO is "Ok" coming out of the gate, add polish and who knows?

Mouse-look is forced. They need to fix that SOON.

Skyships > Airships

If they make Guild-based Skyships (in a system with no guild decay......DOOM)

While lockboxes are basically a pay2win casino, Turbine has them in LOTRO. Of course, "sturdy keys" drop in LOTRO as well (at a 1/10? ratio) and open *all* boxes (the boxes have level-based drops). This basically gives a way for newbies to strike it rich and bring in plenty of gold (assuming they have coughed up the TP to unlock the gold cap).

~WhereMyOldNameGo
05-07-2013, 12:24 PM
DDO, I think, is a much better game. It's also unique.
Neverwinter is much more a "free WoW alternative"

I've been feeling like Turbine has been giving me the finger as a premium customer (former subscriber) for a long time now, though. I never intend to enter into another financial transaction with them again.

PWE, I percieve as having a rather mercenary stance from the very beginning. There's no trust to betray there. I might buy something to improve the Neverwinter experiencem with the understanding that I already expect them to be trying to gouge me at every turn.

thenerfed
05-07-2013, 12:25 PM
I've attempted to play it.

I'm not a fan of constant mouse-directional. It irks me that I can't POV lock and turn strafe. Too much Quake for me I guess. Do not like the lack of activity in gameplay ... move or attack, no attack on the run, etc.

Quests seem flat. Character generation is essentially a railroad.

No desire to play a D&D flavored Diablo.

Maybe once it gets some legs, some mass behind it and varied options at least at paragon/epic levels.

The default keymaps are decidedly lefty unfriendly. I'll try mapping over most of the main keys to the arrows and keys above them to try to get a workable keymaps. As it is I keep taking one hand off the mouse just for semi-basic attacks.

Hwesta
05-07-2013, 12:47 PM
Downloaded Neverwinter and tried it during a previous beta weekend. Not sure why I bothered. The lack of character customization makes it not D&D for me. (Hated 4th ed for that same reason.) Honestly, I'm annoyed because now there can't be a different better D&D MMO set in FR (and yes I realize DDO has FR content too, but I was hoping for something where you start in FR and has a well-built story set there).

DarkForte
05-07-2013, 12:53 PM
I was hoping for something where you start in FR and has a well-built story set there
You were hoping for something that doesn't exist.

thenerfed
05-07-2013, 12:59 PM
If they werent using the name D&D to market it, most of the debate wouldnt even exist.

This can not be overstated. While there is a certain "dodge mechanic" to give combat slightly more engaging than WoW, there really isn't anything from DDO here (except for the beach; that appears to be a homage considering they didn't touch anything else).



D) Oh yeah. If you don't like the sparklies in NW, turn em off. Problem solved.


Only if there is a helpful wiki with a map. Otherwise you can be endlessly wandering the landscape (I assume it is safe to turn off in a dungeon).

Notes from a basic review:
Started with a greatsword fighter. Dull.
Tried a cleric. For those insisting NWO & 4e are "Dungeons and Dragons", you better find Celimas's (yes, named after her) mace. I can't find it. Basically a weak DPS caster, healing (even self) isn't worth bothering with. Oddly enough, healing companions appear to work fine. I can't imagine bringing one of these in a group and explaining to *everybody* that you don't heal.
Tried a rogue. One little hobbity ball of fury, rogues are generally admitted OP on NVO forums. Recommended if you like that sort of thing.

Other issues? I seem to be rocketing through the levels without stopping. I'm guessing a level every 15 minutes? No idea how this is supposed to be a long term game. Haven't tried the homebrew foundry quests, they will certainly make or break this game. I haven't seen a way (or tried) to repeat a succeeded quest: one less way to force grinding on you (at least until cap). I also hit level 20 (i.e. barely started) and have only seen two "group recommended" quests. I also seem to have run out of quests, but it shouldn't take too long to find more (good time for a foundry quest).

The graphics look great: I think the [static] artists did a great job. The graphics engine also seems to do its job well. Animations aren't really sufficient, I'm guessing they cut corners there. Whats really wrong are the graphics overlays: they spew red lines everywhere there is a "threat" (not always, Ogre clubs are telegraphed well enough they don't bother with red areas). The whole thing looks like an arcade [console for you young'ins] fighting game, not a RPG. As far as combat goes, it is mostly a WoW style "babysit your timeouts" (while mashing the mouse key) and hitting "dodge" when red pops up underneath out (easier said than done on some classes/attacks when attacking roots you. Either rogues are much better at it or I didn't get the hang of it till starting my rogue). Don't try to compare NWO combat to DDO, compare it to WoW or LOTRO.

Overall:
DDO: DDO grabbed me and all I wanted to do was run back to Korthos. It took years before burned out and realized I really didn't want to run another quest.
WoW: You can download the client and play for free up to level 20. I got to level 10 and couldn't be bothered to do a full trial.
LOTRO: Tried (and quickly got tired) of hobbit burglars when it went f2p. After getting tired of DDO I tried it again and it grabbed me for a few months, but nothing like DDO.
NWO: meh. Maybe it is 4e's powers (your mouse button mashing is using your at-will "I swing my sword power") not resembling anything out of Dungeons and Dragons (I still need to choose feats. It looks like respecing is a moneygrab, so I have been avoiding it). Maybe it is the goofy graphics (while not as cartoony as WOW, the HUD overlays on the otherwise realistic graphics make things that much worse). Whatever it is makes this game just not grab me at all.

~hallenbeck
05-07-2013, 01:44 PM
Update: I still agree with the "Play Both" stance. After playing some of the Foundry quests- I find them interesting and varied.
Lock-boxes are kind of annoying (in a blatant money-grabbing way) But the hourly chance for astral shards can get addictive ("Oh only 22 min til I can try again?- I'll just run another foundry quest")

DDO- has a great deal more polish, but it's also been out for 7 years.

NWO is "Ok" coming out of the gate, add polish and who knows?

Mouse-look is forced. They need to fix that SOON.

Skyships > Airships

If they make Guild-based Skyships (in a system with no guild decay......DOOM)

Ya mouse lock was another of those annoying things. I looked high and low sifting through those keymaps, only to find that's it. I mean Ive played with it before.. but that was on a 360 with FFXI. And actually with the way they set it up back then it kinda worked. Got really good with that controller heh.

~griffin230
05-08-2013, 02:14 PM
Looks like some people are exploiting the Foundry system in Neverwinter to quickly get to max level in about a day:
http://www.warcry.com/news/view/123818-Neverwinter-Beta-Patch-1-2-16-Shuts-Down-Foundry-Power-Leveling

chance2000
05-11-2013, 10:39 PM
I am still enjoying the game, I have also done the 3 new quests on Lam for update 18 not to bad.
People complain about DDO downtime. What a laugh.
NWO has been down like every other day sometimes multiple times per day.
Seems Cryptic is running all their games on the same network and they are a bit over loaded.
So all Cryptic games are seeing a lot of down time. I know a few in Star Trek online are more than a little upset.
One day due to downtime Neverwinter on twitter reached their message limit.
My time in NWO I have 4 in the mid 20's range Cleric 28, guardian fighter 25, control wizard 23, and a halfling rogue 23.
I thought the dwarf riding the spider looked funny well the halfling riding a spider looks pretty cool.
Where in closed beta some quests you had to have 5 people not sure if that is the max party size.
Now they give you the option of going in as is. You and your companion.
Just like here were lots of folks prefer to spam gen chat for groups instead of the social panel same there.
If anything it is worse there also the people selling stuff is way worse.

Rubbinns
05-11-2013, 10:56 PM
Looks like some people are exploiting the Foundry system in Neverwinter to quickly get to max level in about a day:
http://www.warcry.com/news/view/123818-Neverwinter-Beta-Patch-1-2-16-Shuts-Down-Foundry-Power-Leveling

Was bound to happen, soon as people saw the words player made dungeon. They exposed the lack of end game in Neverwinter and further shows it is a more casual geared product. The people that took a character to 60 would have got there soon anyway even without the Foundry xp farms.

LeslieWest_GuitarGod
05-12-2013, 03:47 AM
Was bound to happen, soon as people saw the words player made dungeon. They exposed the lack of end game in Neverwinter and further shows it is a more casual geared product. The people that took a character to 60 would have got there soon anyway even without the Foundry xp farms.

Exposed what? It's still in beta dude. "End game" is still under development. There are epic dungeons that work great that are not just carbon copies of content already created. Some of those "player made dungeons" blow away DDO's "professionally made" dungeons. The Foundry is a great concept, and there is so much good content being produced. As for exploits, of course cheaters figure out a way to cheat. Thats what cheaters do. However, Cryptic has been fast to address exploits, which truly have been minimal to date.

~Nerfbat
05-12-2013, 06:01 AM
You can turn off zone chat in the chatbox options, you don't miss it. I joined a big guild so that's all the banter I need.

I'm a sucker for skinner boxes (operant conditioning) and I'm playing NWO with someone who is almost immune to it. It's awful.

So when I call out: "Let's do skirmishes for the Astral Diamond reward! We have to do it NAOZ! it's on timer!"
I often get a blank stare.
"But the shinies! We only have to do it three times in an hour. We be able to get shinies, you want shinies right? Shinies man! Shinies!"
I get the reply: "No, I want to play a game, whenever I want."
I gasp "Sh-shinies!... mean nothing..?"

I really enjoy playing the Somethingy Cleric, as I could nuke away and heal at the same time. No more party/raid wipe when you faze out and stare at the ceiling for a minute.

Also, You can gimp a character in NWO and I managed to do just that.
My main tactic of clearing aggro is to just die.
So there is your character customization and tactics right there.

I have an alt that I should have named rat-in-a-box that does skirmishes for shinies. all the daily dungeons,foundries,PvP (I hate pvp! but do them anyway) for more shines. You have certain periods in a day you get extra rewards. I would've postponed, dinner, sleep, life for the extra shinies, but then I'd get ' the stare', or even ' the glare' if I push it. So no can't do. No optimal shiny wield. =( I would have been rich otherwise, rich!

Also every hour you can press a button for random rewards,
a chance for more shinies. Once you have shinies, you can trade for other shinies! But you never have enough shinies no. Oh no..
There are people that pay money for your shinies, and it has a stock exchange ... For BETTER shinies!
Also, if you log in and press button every day you can pick a reward after a few days. a box of random goodness! more shinies! Also if you have logged in and pressed that button every day for one and a half year you get an awesome freakin' PONY!

Shineysplosion!!! *expire*


And now for some education:
http://www.penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/the-skinner-box

Sure, DDO has it's skinner boxes, but NWO way outboxes DDO. All DDO has left is engaging gameplay, mystery and hilarious adventures (Madness chains!).
So yea, it's clear who the winner is right? I thought so. NWO, hands down.
If you excuse me, I have stare at a timer for 1 minute 23 seconds and push some buttons. Coo!

*sigh*
I used to play Dwarf Fortress. What the hell happened to me.

Rubbinns
05-12-2013, 12:25 PM
Exposed what? It's still in beta dude. "End game" is still under development. There are epic dungeons that work great that are not just carbon copies of content already created. Some of those "player made dungeons" blow away DDO's "professionally made" dungeons. The Foundry is a great concept, and there is so much good content being produced. As for exploits, of course cheaters figure out a way to cheat. Thats what cheaters do. However, Cryptic has been fast to address exploits, which truly have been minimal to date.

No raids, dude. Capped players aren't going to run a few 5 man dungeons. Guess foundry is the only thing they can do now. Foundry is a great concept.

LeslieWest_GuitarGod
05-12-2013, 01:03 PM
No raids, dude. Capped players aren't going to run a few 5 man dungeons. Guess foundry is the only thing they can do now. Foundry is a great concept.

Dont need raids. Dungeon delves are easier to gather a group and just as challenging as DDO 12 man raids... with less lag.

Actually, many people run them... it's just a different mindset from DDO. I think in time they'll introduce 10 man raids... but it's not priority.

See for our guild, its not a this or that thing. It's an AND thing. Well with one exception. Some are totally fed up with DDO or just looking for a change. Instead of saying goodby to DDO and Tyrs, they are playing Neverwinter.. still happily in guild and enjoying some good mindless D&D fun.

So Id say Neverwinter is more than making it worth the venture for us.

Rubbinns
05-12-2013, 02:00 PM
Dont need raids. Dungeon delves are easier to gather a group and just as challenging as DDO 12 man raids... with less lag.

Actually, many people run them... it's just a different mindset from DDO. I think in time they'll introduce 10 man raids... but it's not priority.

The end game content that they prepared is pretty shallow unless counting the player made foundry. Raids are highly sought after and they even thought about going up to 20, now it's only 10 players, in theory. They have only implemented 5 man runs in practice.

The game is a lot easier than DDO.

LeslieWest_GuitarGod
05-12-2013, 02:11 PM
The end game content that they prepared is pretty shallow unless counting the player made foundry. Raids are highly sought after and they even thought about going up to 20, now it's only 10 players, in theory. They have only implemented 5 man runs in practice.

You are all over the place. Epic content is not easy compared to DDO, is very well thought out, and was created way way before Turbine launched its first epic content (years before).

You don't really understand what beta means, not getting that you start at zero then you build, and definitely have a warped sense of NWO history. Out of the things people are requesting to be coded next, raids would be there but waaaaay down on the list. You just don't know what you are talking about.

Rubbinns
05-12-2013, 03:31 PM
You are all over the place. Epic content is not easy compared to DDO, is very well thought out, and was created way way before Turbine launched its first epic content (years before).

You don't really understand what beta means, not getting that you start at zero then you build, and definitely have a warped sense of NWO history. Out of the things people are requesting to be coded next, raids would be there but waaaaay down on the list. You just don't know what you are talking about.

I'm in one place. Their epic content is thin right now.

The game is much easier than DDO, stop it. Thing is a snooze fest.

~bob117
05-12-2013, 07:36 PM
So far i capped my wiz and tanker.

Both were very fun journey to level 60. The monotony of killing 10 things/getting ten things/going here and going there then going back is a bit hard to stomach for most. I think neverwinter needs more dungeons for leveling aside from Foundry. I do however love foundry and every aspect of it. It is friggen awesome. It is every dm's dream come true and is super fun seeing all the maps and stories the player base creates. In my honest opinion this is where the core D&D fans hang out. In foundry. The rest of the game not so much.

My biggest pet peave about nwo is the community. So many mean people who only care about gear score and pvp. It is so not D&D! That type of behavior is alien to me. I am used to DDO people and our community of kind laid back players. Even their forums are full of trash talking smack hurling kids whining about pvp and gearscores. It is kinda ******** to say the least.

That said i enjoy neverwinter. I love the fact i played the whole game 100% free to cap. That was pretty sweet. I would gladly have bought NWO for 50-60 bucks and probably will spend some coin on it soon. The cash grabs are plentiful like this game but i think Turbine could learn from them and open up more of the DDO for free. Would attract more players to this game and god knows we need it.

Basically for me DDO has 3 things that i adore and keep me playing. the 3 C's

1. Combat - hands down the best in your face hack and slasher I have ever played. Turbine nailed this ! No company has yet to replicate it either.
2. Customization- Can make a character anyway you want in ddo. It really has freedom to create your perfect toon.
3. Community* We have or had some of the best .... I put a * beside this because i think the forums being changed and losing our blogs, myddo and online resources really has hurt DDO the past month . Turbine needs to do some community PR and fast because it is sad to see our community in limbo right now. It is like everyone vanished when the forums changed. If the community goes the game dies. Simple as that!

Basically , We will never be able to replace DDO with any other type of game. It is a one of a kind. NWO is very generic feeling. Sure it has its lore and some story along with D&D creatures but it does not feel like D&D to me as much as this game does.


Nwo is good, Don't get me wrong, But DDO is great! Turbine Needs to pull some tricks outta there sleaves this year. We need something huge and fast . Also we need the darned forums working to nurse the community back to health.

Just my 2 cents. I Really love DDo and hope it can rebound back this summer!

TheNewSlarden
05-12-2013, 09:21 PM
Dont need raids. Dungeon delves are easier to gather a group and just as challenging as DDO 12 man raids... with less lag.

Actually, many people run them... it's just a different mindset from DDO. I think in time they'll introduce 10 man raids... but it's not priority.

See for our guild, its not a this or that thing. It's an AND thing. Well with one exception. Some are totally fed up with DDO or just looking for a change. Instead of saying goodby to DDO and Tyrs, they are playing Neverwinter.. still happily in guild and enjoying some good mindless D&D fun.

So Id say Neverwinter is more than making it worth the venture for us.

Yeah it seems a lot of people think these things about NWO are positives and not negatives. NWO is a good game. DDO is a good game.

Chai
05-13-2013, 06:54 AM
Its not the game that kills it for NWO, its the people. There are a few things they need to straighten out over there before it will become a good game.

1. Leader can kick another player from group at any time. If they are second in PVP score, kick first place player, take their reward. If they dont like the fact that someone wins most of the loot, kick them out of the dungeon - etc. People being randomly booted from groups at the end has reached a point of hilarity where their forums are in an uproar about it.

2. Lots of account hacking. People being booted mid game only to find out their email address and log in have been changed.

3. Loot system of need/greed. Everyone uses need on all loot and sells it on the AH. Loot only equipable by specific class it drops for.

4. PVP where showing up earns the same amount of glory points as those who actually play. This results in people AFKing the entire match. Sometimes leaders kick those people, but sometimes the leader is one of the AFKers, and everyone sits around waiting for the timer to run out.

5. Queueing instead of grouping for highest level content. /fail.

~griffin230
05-13-2013, 01:44 PM
Its not the game that kills it for NWO, its the people. There are a few things they need to straighten out over there before it will become a good game.

1. Leader can kick another player from group at any time. If they are second in PVP score, kick first place player, take their reward. If they dont like the fact that someone wins most of the loot, kick them out of the dungeon - etc. People being randomly booted from groups at the end has reached a point of hilarity where their forums are in an uproar about it.

2. Lots of account hacking. People being booted mid game only to find out their email address and log in have been changed.

3. Loot system of need/greed. Everyone uses need on all loot and sells it on the AH. Loot only equipable by specific class it drops for.

4. PVP where showing up earns the same amount of glory points as those who actually play. This results in people AFKing the entire match. Sometimes leaders kick those people, but sometimes the leader is one of the AFKers, and everyone sits around waiting for the timer to run out.

5. Queueing instead of grouping for highest level content. /fail.

There does seem to be a lot of dissatisfaction being expressed in the Neverwinter forums. There are many people complaining about exploits that allow easy farming of the highest tier gear - so nothing left to do afterwards when everything can be sold on the AH and bought from the AH, repetitive boss mechanics (spawn adds, then spawn some more adds), loot system that allows loot ninja-ing, queuing system that doesn't check for roles in the party etc.

Deathdealr
05-13-2013, 03:27 PM
Never winter to me is a poorly made diablo 3, and I didn't really care much for diablo 3. I don't see the wow comparisons at all I think that has just become a phrase to regurgitate when you find a game to be non innovative, standard fare. I didn't care about any of the chars didn't read any of the quests just followed the glitter line and spammed the attack hotkeys (to be fair there is some strategy later into the game when you get a full complement of abilities). The combat can be fun for a little while but becomes very repetitive.

The depth of char creation doesn't compare to DDO. Even the visual char customization is better in DDO, minus the ugly half elves of course :-)

Overall the game just feels unpolished and smells of a cash grab on the popularity of the never winter name.

-my 2 cents your mileage my vary

phorking
05-13-2013, 03:29 PM
I've played neverwinter nights platinum and they had a regular spell list and stores where you could buy a +2 sword. Somebody that never played dungeons and dragons of any kind must have made that game, it sucks, no gamepad the moving is llame and what is wrong with jump. I hit level 60 in 2 weeks and my guys sucked, I deleted him and made a new guy, and he is following the exact same quest line so no thanks to that gameDELETE

SO hey there guys, spent last night playing the new Neverwinter Online...
Seems to be a lot of games recently hypes themselves up and turns out to be a big let down.
Yeah I hear you, Im a fan boi, *err wrong* i hold no allegiance I am chaotic Neutral.
In any case, after downloading the game and client, which by the way must be capped or its all the other ten thousand ppl downloading at the same time, I managed to create a character on Dragon server and had to wait in que for about 40 minutes at 10pm PST(only 3 servers, hmmm sounds like a beginning of D3 oops again) the beginning graphics looked okay, not the top notch but hey we know once they start they lag behind newer stuff coming out.
Played till level 8, but here are my thoughts on it

Graphics - eyecandy is a little above so so, cranked at max but basically looks a lot like a combo of GW2, DDO, and Terra - oh and no way to set full screen at 1920 - yup sticks itself in window mode. although you really dont notice it after a while.
Quite of abit of things not syncing up and tearing from movements. But other than that, it does beat DDO's outdated graphic engine.

Environment - Most items are not interactable, you cant break barrels, go on a rampage etc, mostly no interactions or static movables. some places to search for collectable type stuff, but you need to spend money on kits before you can even use things like an arcane alter, or nature things, yup you gotta cough up dough to farm. But the non interaction with environment really detracts from it all. DDO you win this one hands down. [I dont always rage, but when I do, I break always break boxes with head ~Horig the halfling barbarian]

Controls and layout - This is typical of what MMO games have become, its a rehash of GW2 button setup, No customizable anything, you are limited to what you can immediately use, so macros? dont even think about it. If any of you have ever played Age of Conan, yup thats about it. Even WoW had a better set up than this. Your screen blacks out when you go into inventory or any other windows.
Props DDO we can run and have window open and a near unlimited bar space for macros and clickies.

Audio - Holy cow, did someone kill their audio production team, muted background music that is lack luster, Actors that really would be better off not saying anything at all, cheesy sounds and yes mouth and voice no where near working together. DDO is better but not a whole heck of a lot.

Enemies and AI - DDO kobold union workers.... its either they stand around while you hit them or they stare at you trying to drool on you, very very low AI, they wont even run at you if you are close to line of sight, so archer away and you will win the day. most places respawn the same enemies within 2 minutes of death or less. So what you will but DDO AI is a load lot better.

Quests - This one is kind of a toss up depending on what you prefer, the quest layouts etc for Neverwinter are al la GW2 exactly, everyone running around in the same area trying to kill enemies and complete quests which are the same type of quests that you would see in GW2, WoW - bring me 5 of those, kill 10 of them. Blah. DDO quest set ups are my personal favorites. Its kind of hard to achieve the diverse objectives, but then I know others like the GW2 way.

Microtransaction - sheesh you thought Turbines inclusion of astral shards was bad, Neverwinter has 4 different currencies including *gasp* Astral shards. After seeing this I had to see if Cryptic studios was owned by WB or Turbine subsidiarity. Its not.

------------------
I had high hopes for Neverwinter Online, but its kind of a let down in what I was expecting, certainly no DDO killing machine by any means. Its free to play now where as DDO only went free to play much later in the game after release. What is no doubt vexing the population of NEverwinter is those long wait ques, those who paid for their founder packs from $50 on up to $200, and others are playing the game for free and they still have to wait in line to log in.

Dont really foresee this one getting a lot of callers.

phorking
05-13-2013, 03:31 PM
when you fight multiple targets you are flailing your mouse back and forth with ferocity.

Never winter to me is a poorly made diablo 3, and I didn't really care much for diablo 3. I don't see the wow comparisons at all I think that has just become a phrase to regurgitate when you find a game to be non innovative, standard fare. I didn't care about any of the chars didn't read any of the quests just followed the glitter line and spammed the attack hotkeys (to be fair there is some strategy later into the game when you get a full complement of abilities). The combat can be fun for a little while but becomes very repetitive.

The depth of char creation doesn't compare to DDO. Even the visual char customization is better in DDO, minus the ugly half elves of course :-)

Overall the game just feels unpolished and smells of a cash grab on the popularity of the never winter name.

-my 2 cents your mileage my vary

Chai
05-14-2013, 09:26 AM
There does seem to be a lot of dissatisfaction being expressed in the Neverwinter forums. There are many people complaining about exploits that allow easy farming of the highest tier gear - so nothing left to do afterwards when everything can be sold on the AH and bought from the AH, repetitive boss mechanics (spawn adds, then spawn some more adds), loot system that allows loot ninja-ing, queuing system that doesn't check for roles in the party etc.

Yeap, it gets even more hilarious.

Clerics have a healing debuff on themselves so they cant solo a dungeon reliably. None of the pther party members do, so the cleric can keep them alive, but have to drink a pot themselves if they are burst damaged and low on hp.

If 5 people ignore you, you get "silenced" (banned from chat) for a period of time. Griefing someone is a matter of having 4 friends.

Players can be kicked at any time from the party, including right before the end of a PVP match or when someone won the loot roll and the leader came in second.

Lots of 5 boxers exploit farming xp and loot. The minute anyone says anything about it, they are ignored on all 5 of the exploit farmers accounts, which triggers the chat silence ban.

Its been my experience in MMOs that if theres a way to grief someone in game, some players will do it. PW will need to change some of this stuff before the community will begin to balance itself out and treat eachother equally. I remember when DDO had some of the same loot issues, and people stopped raiding in full groups just to have the 2 guaranteed drops to themselves, and Turbine changed that to what we have today which encourages o have more people show up. PW needs to get on that before the entire game population turns into a colossal mass of trolls. The game is good, but there are too many griefing mechanisms which allow players to take complete advantage over others.

~griffin230
05-14-2013, 10:07 AM
Yeap, it gets even more hilarious.

Clerics have a healing debuff on themselves so they cant solo a dungeon reliably. None of the pther party members do, so the cleric can keep them alive, but have to drink a pot themselves if they are burst damaged and low on hp.

If 5 people ignore you, you get "silenced" (banned from chat) for a period of time. Griefing someone is a matter of having 4 friends.

Players can be kicked at any time from the party, including right before the end of a PVP match or when someone won the loot roll and the leader came in second.

Lots of 5 boxers exploit farming xp and loot. The minute anyone says anything about it, they are ignored on all 5 of the exploit farmers accounts, which triggers the chat silence ban.

Its been my experience in MMOs that if theres a way to grief someone in game, some players will do it. PW will need to change some of this stuff before the community will begin to balance itself out and treat eachother equally. I remember when DDO had some of the same loot issues, and people stopped raiding in full groups just to have the 2 guaranteed drops to themselves, and Turbine changed that to what we have today which encourages o have more people show up. PW needs to get on that before the entire game population turns into a colossal mass of trolls. The game is good, but there are too many griefing mechanisms which allow players to take complete advantage over others.

Yeah, I was aware of most of those since those issues get brought up in the Neverwinter forums (the mods have now removed the thread(s) about the exploits to easily kill epic dungeon bosses and make farming tier gear trivial) and I've noticed them myself while playing. I'm really not a fan of the kicking and looting system. It just gets abused too much, especially since you can sell everything you get in the AH so there's too much temptation. It makes for unpleasant grouping experiences.

~adfsdasdaf
05-14-2013, 10:26 AM
Neverwinter almost makes me think the 4E mechanics weren't made for a videogame, because they suck there too.

There are a lot of good F2P MMO and MMO-type games out there. Neverwinter beta isn't a contender.

nibel
05-14-2013, 05:52 PM
Neverwinter almost makes me think the 4E mechanics weren't made for a videogame, because they suck there too.

That thing is not 4e. Is GW2 using 4e power's names. Except it is worse than GW2.

Want to know what a videogame of 4e would looks like?

http://i43.tinypic.com/mv554x.jpg

~KrelarVersion2
05-14-2013, 07:35 PM
That thing is not 4e. Is GW2 using 4e power's names. Except it is worse than GW2.

Want to know what a videogame of 4e would looks like?

http://i43.tinypic.com/mv554x.jpg

I like it. It even includes miniatures. :D

voodoogroves
05-15-2013, 06:59 AM
I'm a content-fan. I'll play anything, no matter what, with some names. One of those (and the largest) is 'D&D'.

I've played / am playing a bit Neverwinter. It does some things VERY well. Others, it's a wash and then some it is just tragically bad.

GOOD
- You can't really screw up a character so that it's totall gimp
- Mechanics are scaled so that damage numbers / etc. can be tweaked more easily in the future
- Even though their skins are limited, the cosmetic framework of options is there and ready to be expanded
- Quest and objective pathing is really helpful for a new player
- Few quests need a party, at all. Very very few.
- For the party-centric quests/skirmishes the teleport-to-quest and grouping works very well.
- It's new. Just being new means running the content is interesting.
- Their bonus system is very visible in-game and has a big impact on who's playing what. Bonuses to
- Foundry.

NEUTRAL
- 4e vs 3e ... some care, I don't.
- The loot system (need/greed/pass) is a nice idea - it doesn't work quite right but it's got the feel it is the start of something promising.
- It is largely a single player game until cap, with a few specific quests. You can group, but it is unnecessary - can be fun if you want to be social, but it can also just slow you down EVEN with a good player, just because you tend to gate at key zone transfer points.
- Foundry. Some of them are ****.

BAD
- Flip side to not being able to screw up a character is that they essentially removed all the mechanics that would function like that. It's all % resist, % duration of CC effect - no saves, no save limiters, no DCs, etc.
- While they are scaled so they can make adjustments in the future if damage, etc. is deemed too out of whack, it's really not on a scale that is relevant to any D&D player. HP, damage, etc. way off the chart. XP and levels as well.
- Mechanics of combat are not D&D related (not even 4e) ... Power? Armor Penetration? Deflection? Recovery speed on cooldowns?
- Most items are bound to your specific build. You can't have a cleric with a shield (or a big 2-h weapon) or a wizard with a staff.
- Monsters have freaking weak AI.
- At the core, much like 4e, everyone is actually very similar.
- With rare exception, you can't move and fight. You also can't cast magic missile at the darkness - you have to have a target.
- It's all mouse steering - I can't steer and mouselook independently (like running forward, looking to the right and attacking - or running sideways, looking foward and attacking)
- The rooting moves and lack of real movement boosters makes the game seem slow. In DDO I'm a speed junky - chugging haste pots, winging around the market, you name it. Difficult to achieve in NWO.
- If you like a quest and want to repeat it, it isn't intuitive how to do it.
- Foundry. Some of them are not well balanced.
- Game has lots of bugs and exploits. At times, you do need to drink potions - except I've had several characters simply lose that ability (to drink a healing potion) and had no response to my tickets. Due to the exploits and loot / whatever grabbing there are already people asking for a wipe.

SweetDude
05-15-2013, 11:13 AM
I agree with mr. woodoogroves in the most of his statemetnts about NOW. I'll also state some of the things that I didn't like on NWO.

- The glittering dust guiding you through the maps: serious what'tha heck is that? Are the players soo dumb nowdays that they can't find the quest entrance?? I know we can disable it and it's lame to complain about it, yet it is ridiculous.

- The traps system: serious, you can't even call that a trap system, the damage is ridiculous low and it just glows to you inviting you to disarm it.

- It isn't D&D really. It just has the label.

- It isn't Neverwinter Nights(I mean the old franchise) too, it just a random game that took the name from the neverwinter franchise.

That's it :D

voodoogroves
05-15-2013, 07:02 PM
I agree with mr. woodoogroves in the most of his statemetnts about NOW. I'll also state some of the things that I didn't like on NWO.

- The glittering dust guiding you through the maps: serious what'tha heck is that? Are the players soo dumb nowdays that they can't find the quest entrance?? I know we can disable it and it's lame to complain about it, yet it is ridiculous.

It does help with the new/vet issue (combined with the teleport to quest ... which works in NWO


- The traps system: serious, you can't even call that a trap system, the damage is ridiculous low and it just glows to you inviting you to disarm it.
totally agree, traps are lame


- It isn't D&D really. It just has the label.

- It isn't Neverwinter Nights(I mean the old franchise) too, it just a random game that took the name from the neverwinter franchise.

That's it :D

Heh


On the NWO+ ... the gateway rocks. AH, mail and profession / crafting via a browser app ...

DeathdefyBeta
05-16-2013, 04:32 AM
I played Neverwinter till level 34 on a Trickster Rogue and level 26 on a Control Wizard. Which isn't much for the record (it goes to 60), but I also only ran 3 foundry quests, which I'm reliably informed is a faster way to level up. e.g. with something called "Ogre farm" that involves a map with many, many ogres, and you kill them, each giving you reasonable xp. Anyway, here's my pros and cons versus DDO.


THE GOOD

I really, really liked:
- Tumble does something! I could leap/teleport out of the way of attacks that weren't just cometfall, flamestrike or fireball. You REALLY want to tumble out of super-flagged 'red danger zone' areas, but you also can dodge a lot of regular spells and only moderately flagged attacks. It's usually not a dps loss since many, many attacks come with a mini-stun component, like an 'ouchie' from standing in fire, or a chain interrupt from being hit, etc. I can't see a way for ddo to seamlessly integrate tumble being useful now, but NWO has, and it's really cool.

- Backstabbing matters. Getting behind a monster with someone else distracting it from the front does more than increase your chance to hit; it increases your damage! For every class!

- Open areas with quests in them. Picture explorer areas with objectives like 'Cleanse 20 Bearded Devils' from the Vale of Twilight. NWO also has collector quests. Yes, some people say that's super boring. Whatever. I'll collect 40 carrots for Farmer John and I'll feel good about it.


I liked:
- It's prettier than ddo in my opinion.

- The dungeon bosses require actual teamwork. I got whupped by the first dragon in the game. It was a mean ol' thing, and at level 32 comprised my 3rd (and first non-falling off a random ledge) death in the game. Eventually, 2 entirely new pug groups (that eventually quit) and a few wipes later, I got it done. Everyone in that party was solid, as opposed to the first two, and we still had a few post-wipe strategy chats.

- Damage dealt / health healed / damage taken meters are not only existent, but genuinely useful. For my first few runs of the Cloaktower (first dungeon) I was not on top of the damage meters (which as a Trickster Rogue I should have been), and I also was taking more damage than I should have.

Once I realised how to play, I corrected that (err on the side of dodging not continuing to attack, attack when you aren't moving, use missile attacks if moving in would mean you had to jump out of an attack soon after you went in to melee, don't get stunned if at all possible since it's a huge dps loss, use dailies whenever they're somewhat useful).

I realise some people don't like seeing that they're not doing well. I was in one party where control wizards (basically the exact same character no matter what choices they'd made to this point) both topped and bottomed the damage dealt meter. I realise some players will abuse other players who aren't doing well. Regardless, I personally like the constructive criticism that those stats provide. Oh, NWO also has 'killing blows' as a metric, which I literally never topped for reasons I genuinely still don't know understand since I can now consistently the damage dealt meter. Kills, a la DDO, is just kind of dumb.

- No random bugs (that I noticed). No disconnecting the first time you load in sometimes. No load screens that take hours. No lag explosions.

- The rogue can teleport to his foe. Think the ever-underrated teleporting Assassin kick from Diablo 2. Why can no one in ddo teleport to their foe?! I know 'we have abundant step', and 'if you move too fast the game asplodes'. But just literally teleport them, say in front of the monster.

Char x,y,z := Monster x,y,z - (characterHitBoxRadius x (direction monster is facing x, direction monster is facing y, 0 z)).
If the character would end up in a rock, don't teleport.

Similarly, where is dimension door to somewhere you can see at? Let's introduce blink as this. If we can target ray spells at discrete points on the ground, let's get our blink (dimension door in pnp, but hey) on too.

TL;DR - Teleporting is really fun and NWO reminded me of that undeniable fact haha.


- The LFM system works. You click 'I want to do this dungeon' and after a while it says 'party available' and you click 'I'm ready' and it teleports you into the dungeon with your group. Hooray! I would actually use 'public groups' in DDO if it teleported the plebs, err pugs, into the dungeon.


I think others will like:
- Better PvP? It is limited to 5v5 arenas, but NWO at least attempts class balance (though control wizards and rogues are again the top of the pile I'm told). There is also a 20v20 mega-arena coming. I played one pvp match and was called a noob. I agree with the assessment. At one point I thought I'd killed someone, but then I read on the screen I had to press a button to perform a 'killing blow' but while I was reading that I died again.


THE BAD

I disliked:
- All boss fights are remarkably similar. Adds, more adds, big super-flagged attacks, lots of dodging. Not to say that it's easy, just not a variety-fest. An exception to that is when you fight an enemy party of 5 adventurers - that's a cool fight, and one DDO could easily copy (hint hint!).

- Only one person could open a treasure chest at a time. That takes ~2 seconds. There are 5 members in each party. Oh, and you can't loot while someone else is looting. I have 0 doubt this will be fixed, but it's a bit lame.

- Customization is limited. Not non-existent, but compared with DDO it's laughable. If you'd never played DDO, you might love it, but having played DDO I cannot avoid the comparison and it's super painful.
Rogue = Damage,
Wizard = Damage + CC,
Cleric = Damage + Healing,
Guardian Fighter = Tank
Heavy Weapon Fighter = (AoE) Damage

End of list, and no blurring of the lines anywhere. Hybrids aren't a thing, multi-classing isn't a thing. It just sort of blows. The customization in rogue was like 'better at stealth' or 'better at crits' or 'better at general damage and faster use of abilities'. You could be a hybrid within those 3 areas, but that's still all within the super narrow role of damage dealer.

Compare ddo, where I'll soon be able to make a dual kama-wielding 7 wizard / 1 monk / 12 rogue Self-Healing, Energy Draining on Vorpal Strikes, Vampire with Decent Sneak Attacks, and Instakills via Executioner's Strike (after Improved Sunder and -1 fort save from Heartseeker poison) from being dex-based. Maybe I'll also be able to add my int to repeating crossbow attacks.

Point being, customization in the two games is like comparing 'apples' and an abstract noun like 'disappointment'.

- The Zen (their real world cash equivalent) is really in your face. I'm unsure if it's patched now, but they would do a server-wide announcement every time someone got the rare mount from opening a nightmare lockbox with a zen money key. That happened a lot. It's not a huge issue, but the amount of referring to zen and the zen shop is just a bit ugly.

- No Insta-kills. Literally none. That's not fun.

- You can't press [enter], type part of a chat message, and then fight for a bit and finish the message later. If you press [enter], by golly you aren't fighting or moving until you finish what you had to say. It's beyond idiotic, and therefore I assume going to be fixed.

- The fighting is less fun. This one's pretty subjective. Maybe it's the you have to stand still to attack thing, or maybe it's that there's no IPS and corresponding positioning fun. Maybe it's the lack of Action Boosts and that even Daily Abilities are just on a cooldown. Maybe it's that weapons almost all just do damage in one way or another (though lifesteal and that thing that makes enemies to less damage) are expections to that. Whatever.

You can't blind something from afar then go up and assassinate it. You can't Web things or Charm the big hezrou or Discoball, or kite through Solid Fog and Icestorm, or... cripple / stench / tendon slice / hamstring something and watch it limp after you... or enervate/energy drain the hell out of something, or DoT and run, or fool the stupid zombie by making it climb the stairs, then jumping off the top repeatedly (oh wait you can't do that in DDO either because it will get a yellow box over its head because the Overgrowth quest and surrounding module makes no sense. It's a ZOMBIE SO WHY WOULD IT STOP CHASING YOU?! WHY WOULD IT HEAL? HUMANS ARE BETTER THAN ZOMBIES BECAUSE WE'RE SMARTER AND FASTER. LET US USE ONE OR THE OTHER OF THESE ADVANTAGES.).

But in all seriousness, you just can't do as much, and while the combat is probably as 'fast' as DDO in my opinion, it's just not as good.



THE CONCLUSION

I like NWO and will keep it on my computer. It's fun enough, and while the Foundry at the moment is a little lacklustre for someone like me who isn't very into a big ol' roleplay, I think it'll get better. Right now it doesn't have:
- 3D - you can't put stuff on top of other stuff.
- Bosses with a little cut scene.
- The ability to designate specific loot.
- The ability to place a friendly npc next to an enemy monster without it gnawing their face off.

There's heaps of potential though, and has at the very least, generic MMORPG appeal.

For me though, it does really re-enforce to me that despite DDO's many foibles, it remains the best MMO on the market.

SweetDude
05-16-2013, 07:54 AM
For me though, it does really re-enforce to me that despite DDO's many foibles, it remains the best MMO on the market.

+1

Dilbon
05-16-2013, 07:08 PM
I'm starting to like the combat system, but I just wish the game was D&D without boring generic MMO stats and gear.

Zai
05-16-2013, 08:57 PM
I didn't read all the posts in this thread, but just wanted to say I'm playing DDO right now because of Neverwinter.

I don't think NWO is a bad game, it's just that leading up to it's release I was preparing myself for a D&D game, and there's really nothing about NWO that's any more D&D to me than WoW or EQ are. Elves, dwarfs, and orcs are just a common fantasy setting, there might be some background 4e lore in there but I didn't recognize it, and the gameplay is just totally foreign to me. It's a half decent action RPG, in a very early beta stage, but since I was in the mood for a D&D game it couldn't hold my interest and made me want to pick up DDO again (almost went back to NWN2 instead but I somehow uninstalled it by accident at some point and didn't feel like disc hunting). I'm glad I did because DDO has improved a lot in the past few years and turned out to be exactly what I wanted to play.

I would not even say these two games compete with each other. I think anyone who wants the complexity and customization that D&D is supposed to be about is going to play DDO, and people who want a simple action MMO on rails will enjoy NWO. These are typically two entirely different audiences.

UurlockYgmeov
05-16-2013, 10:05 PM
I'm trying NWO when not in my static TR group.

So far it is just evercrack of worst of war.... they claim D&D but just hp alone....

NO OPTIONS - and feels like that microsoft game - Dungeon Siege (which I liked) sans any options.

we will see --- and the dungeon / adventure tool might be what I use.... for pnp

but at the same time - DDO needs to again bring itself up to date and increase the fan base.

note: the number of NPC's makes the town feel overcrowded - but that isn't a bad thing. Would like to see more PC's and NPC's in public areas of DDO>

TheNewSlarden
05-16-2013, 10:29 PM
I didn't read all the posts in this thread, but just wanted to say I'm playing DDO right now because of Neverwinter.

I don't think NWO is a bad game, it's just that leading up to it's release I was preparing myself for a D&D game, and there's really nothing about NWO that's any more D&D to me than WoW or EQ are. Elves, dwarfs, and orcs are just a common fantasy setting, there might be some background 4e lore in there but I didn't recognize it, and the gameplay is just totally foreign to me. It's a half decent action RPG, in a very early beta stage, but since I was in the mood for a D&D game it couldn't hold my interest and made me want to pick up DDO again (almost went back to NWN2 instead but I somehow uninstalled it by accident at some point and didn't feel like disc hunting). I'm glad I did because DDO has improved a lot in the past few years and turned out to be exactly what I wanted to play.

I would not even say these two games compete with each other. I think anyone who wants the complexity and customization that D&D is supposed to be about is going to play DDO, and people who want a simple action MMO on rails will enjoy NWO. These are typically two entirely different audiences.

Didn't get to finish my post. Was going to say I agree completely they are different games. I think they do overlap for some people including myself, but not most people. My friends prefer NWO over DDO so when I game with them it will be NWO instead of DDO. DDO has some really great positives with some extremely annoying/unnecessary aspects to it. NWO seems to have done a better job of keeping punishment type mechanics out of the game which will appeal to casual gamers more..

DDO recently passed 100k facebook likes and they had a celebration about it. NWO did that as well and is growing by several thousand per day. Despite the fact that most DDO players will prefer DDO - it seems NWO will clearly win the #s contest in the long run. Partially because it's model is more ftp-friendly and partially because there is less of an entry barrier for new players.

For me I will keep my hands in both games. The only thing that could possibly make me quite DDO entirely is the guild system which I and many others find frustrating. Other than that I really prefer DDO, but the guild system frustration level is so high it's entirely possibly I follow the guild leader to NWO and abandon DDO as he did. But that wouldn't be because I think DDO is just a bad game - more of a just a bad fit for someone that likes to group the way I do.

Zai
05-17-2013, 02:18 AM
So you joined DDO in 2006 in anticipation of NWO? Interesting.

Huh? If that was a joke it went over my head. *is confused*

waryJerry
05-17-2013, 04:19 AM
I think some of you people are giggling with insane glee whenever anyone says anything negative about Neverwinter--particularly those of you who say the most negative things on hearsay rather than trying out the game personally. Much of the criticism here is valid, especially when it comes to the lack of character depth when compared to this game, which is true enough. Still, the game has time to evolve and I very much doubt it's going away. Furthermore, it it's anything like a success you can bet it's going to have some sort of impact on this game. Competition will be good for DDO or, worst case scenario, the brain trust at Warner decides it's had its day.

TheNewSlarden
05-17-2013, 06:10 AM
Huh? If that was a joke it went over my head. *is confused*

Yes it started out as a joke but I accidently saved before I could finish it. Then I I couldn't edit to fix and asked mods to remove it - which they eventually did. So I just decided the punch line wasn't all that good and scrapped it all together. Sorry for the confusion - I am not sure if the edit button just fails for me or if it's browser-specific.

TheNewSlarden
05-17-2013, 06:26 AM
I think some of you people are giggling with insane glee whenever anyone says anything negative about Neverwinter--particularly those of you who say the most negative things on hearsay rather than trying out the game personally. Much of the criticism here is valid, especially when it comes to the lack of character depth when compared to this game, which is true enough. Still, the game has time to evolve and I very much doubt it's going away. Furthermore, it it's anything like a success you can bet it's going to have some sort of impact on this game. Competition will be good for DDO or, worst case scenario, the brain trust at Warner decides it's had its day.

My guess is that NWO won't impact Turbine development at all. They seem to be internally focused rather than externally focused.

I agree with you on the character development. If character development is a critical feature, NWO is lacking. However, to some people the simplicity of building a character and lack of failure points that result in a bad build is a positive. Overall the social atmosphere in the game is more positive, supported largely by a good design from the NWO team.

As another poster said, I think it's really targeting a different audience, which I believe happens to be a much larger audience. The overlap is is very small for DDO regulars and maybe like 50% or more for casual DDO players.

I think their free-to-play model is superior which will help retain a larger # of free to play players through end game. For DDO, free to play is mostly a trial period unless you have a lot of time to grind.

As far as quests, character development, etc. I think DDO wins hands-down. However when I factor in the things that really frustrate me like guild decay, the advantage isn't really there. NWO did a good job of avoiding the type of mechanics that drive people away. At the moment I have just as much fun playing NWO as I do playing DDO. But I hope both games have continued success. There is room for both games and I like them both. I am glad the D&D setting appeals to so many people - it's one of the best games ever designed.

ReaperAlexEU
05-17-2013, 07:23 AM
I gave NWO a spin last weekend, it just didn't quite work for me.

I like that the MMO world is focusing more on action based combat, it's one of the main reasons I've had DDO on my hard drive since I first started playing not long after 1st launch. Kinda funny it's taken this long for the MMO world to realise action based combat can be fun :)

That however is why NWO didn't really work with me, it tries to be action based, and there is a lot of good stuff in there, but it then strangles the action by rooting us to the ground every chance it gets. That I just don't understand. Some big, special attacks, sure I can see them being balanced with rooting, but not a melee's everyday attack.

For me action based melee is stepping into range as my sword is swinging. Not stepping into melee range, stopping, swinging my sword back then going for the hit. That just feels disjointed and breaks the flow. One game that got this spot on was Spellborn, in that you could time the swing of your sword with your moving into melee range to get your hit while avoiding as many of the mobs hits as possible. They still had some abilities that rooted you, but you could plan for them and position your self for them and even jump cast to mitigate them. The combat was just oozing action and positional strategy whilst maintaining a fluid flow and forcing you to alter your usage of abilities on the fly.

Spellborn had better combat in some ways than DDO, the action part at least. Where DDO stands undefeated is in the sheer flexibility in ways you can affect the mobs. Add to that a fully fluid combat dynamic and the action flows constantly. Both games have an action based combat system NWO should have taken more note of.

So, based on scrapping alone it's clear to me DDO is a better action based combat game, and Spellborn would be on the list too if it wasn't killed by greedy corporations.

As for the DnD feel, well it's nice to see a lot of quests, though it does feel a lot more tile based than DDO, and I can see some of that in DDO. It's a shame they havent gone for a fully 3D level system, sure making it tile based will open the door to more players making content, but FPS games have had level tools out there for years to great success. So the quests don't feel quite as immersive as DDO.

Then there are the traps, like all DnD games I've played previously there are traps, and for some reason they fail to inspire me. There is just something about the traps in DDO that bring out the wide eyed kid on fireworks night in me, when I get brutally killed by a new trap in DDO my reaction is to go "ooooh" and "ahhhh". I love it! The fire pit in STK and the head height blade trap in WW made a lasting impression on me, then later in the game seeing some of the inventive stuff like the floor giving way to a slope that then gets greased with something nasty at the bottom. It's that type of trap, where some quest designer has tried to find a new way to kill us that really makes the traps in DDO become more like fireworks and less like irritants.

As for the char building, I havent got a clue how 4th ed works, and while i understand NWO is not as flexible as the rule set i have no idea how much of the spirit it's captured. just feels like another generic fantasy game with fixed classes and progression trees.

I think a lot of people will have fun with NWO, but for me and my FPS background it's games like DDO that keep me hooked.

blaze44
05-18-2013, 05:17 PM
I am having some fun. No it is not DDO and yes it is very different. ATM just taking a break from DDO and playing NWO.

One of my favorite features. Imagine MyDDO but you can actually interact with the game from a web browser.

https://gateway.playneverwinter.com/#/characterselect

The below can be done from a web browser without being in-game.

1. View Character - a given
2. Read and answer mail.
3. Guild stuff - not in a guild yet, but wonder if you can chat with guildies from a web browser
4. Buy and post on the Auction House
5. Professions/Crafting - can be done from a web browser. Don't have to click something a 1000x while in-game. If you have the recourses, you can start train and go about your business in-game or browser. Each tier completes in minutes/hours as you get higher in the tiers. You start it then go questing, sometime later get a message pop-up you finished that tier.

DDO is still my favorite, but this comes in 2nd place and will play both.

blaze44
05-18-2013, 05:30 PM
I tried to edit the post above, but DDO Forums just stalls out on the 'Edit Post' button.

I wanted to add, NWO is 2nd place for now. But still waiting for ESO

waryJerry
05-18-2013, 06:42 PM
I agree with a poster above who said Cryptic does free-to-play better than Turbine, though when you compare DDO to LotRO, the latter gives players through deeding a means to earn points in-game. Though this game was the first really successful attempt for a subscription MMO to go f2p, it seems to me the company has a real problem when it comes to keeping its players happy. On the other hand, reading the forums makes me think this game has a lot of players who are loyal (in the sense that they're not leaving) to the game and only happy when the developers are making them miserable.

khamastus
05-18-2013, 10:54 PM
, it seems to me the company has a real problem when it comes to keeping its players happy. On the other hand, reading the forums makes me think this game has a lot of players who are loyal (in the sense that they're not leaving) to the game and only happy when the developers are making them miserable.

I think it's one thing to be happy with the game. But theres a bit more to it than that, no?

This game is so damned full of bugs.

In my personal opinion, this game is absolutely amazing but you HAVE to take it warts and all. Who likes warts?

If there was 'real' competition that offered the depth that I enjoy in DDO, it wouldnt take much to make me leave. Loyalty is built on trust and I dont see enough involvement from turbine to trust them that much.

waryJerry
05-19-2013, 04:00 AM
Every MMO I've ever played has been pretty high-handed when it comes to its players. They're all defensive when you criticize them and the customer service, let's be honest, tends to be crappy or even much worse. I do think, however, that Turbine in particular needs to show its players some love. Ultimately, I think the recent changes the developers have been implementing are a good thing and that we should give them some time to develop them rather than whine, whine, whine about the changes and how they're going to ruin our lives. Still, that said, I think Turbine could learn some things from Cryptic while retaining the complexity of character options we all keep on playing DDO for.

forummuleonly
05-19-2013, 03:19 PM
I think it's one thing to be happy with the game. But theres a bit more to it than that, no?

This game is so damned full of bugs.

In my personal opinion, this game is absolutely amazing but you HAVE to take it warts and all. Who likes warts?

If there was 'real' competition that offered the depth that I enjoy in DDO, it wouldnt take much to make me leave. Loyalty is built on trust and I dont see enough involvement from turbine to trust them that much.

The most compelling and descriptive of how I feel can be summed up by the above statement.

Most importantly:
If there was 'real' competition that offered the depth that I enjoy in DDO, it wouldnt take much to make me leave. Loyalty is built on trust and I dont see enough involvement from turbine to trust them that much.

And you nailed it with that.

I also do not need much more than just a nudge from the right game that embodied even 1/2 of what DDO has. I have said this in the past, and I will say it again now. DDO can be so much more. DDO can and should be at the very top of the heap in the MMO industry, the simple reason they aren't is because they refuse to fix problems that are detrimental to the players experience. As far as I am concerned, it comes down to management. Whether it be time management or $$ investment management, it all boils down to the end result of: the leadership of the franchise is leading the developers into a dead end by not investing in repairing and fixing the game.

Seriously, from an employer standpoint, granted my industry is not tech/game based, but the concept is the same. In my industry word gets around. There are an ess ton of guys doing what I do. There are also several guys that cannot get work just by their association with their bosses, when all they ever did was to do what they were told, they were good soldiers, but their boss stigmatized them with bad choices. So the concept of what I say is close, but not identical: The leaders of this game are giving their employees a bad reputation.

It is not like this is a new or even relatively new thing. I have been on this game since the very day it went F2P, heck, I remember having to use a leveling token. I also remember them still dropping in chests for months after removal.

No, DDO is a great game. It is a very immersive game. The combat can be the best, but it requires fixing the bugs, otherwise it IS the best.

Here I go, rambling on. Basically, really, at the end of the day
In my personal opinion, this game is absolutely amazing but you HAVE to take it warts and all. Who likes warts?


I know I am not a fan of warts.

Chai
05-19-2013, 04:16 PM
NWO may evolve into that competition, but its just too young of a game right now, with no real endgame. When they toss a few cmore classes, and a few world bosses in there, then we'll see.

BOgre
05-20-2013, 12:46 PM
NWO may evolve into that competition, but its just too young of a game right now, with no real endgame. When they toss a few cmore classes, and a few world bosses in there, then we'll see.

I disagree. NWO is still fundamentally a WoW clone. No game based on the non-instanced scavenger-hunt completely-linear non-repeatable spoon-fed style of play made popular by WoW will ever truly compete with DDO. Yes, they compete for market share, and yes they are winning by a mile. No, they'll never compete in terms of consumers who want a different, more immersive, more action driven type of game. DDO is still THE only game that delivers.

voodoogroves
05-20-2013, 12:51 PM
I disagree. NWO is still fundamentally a WoW clone. No game based on the non-instanced scavenger-hunt completely-linear non-repeatable spoon-fed style of play made popular by WoW will ever truly compete with DDO. Yes, they compete for market share, and yes they are winning by a mile. No, they'll never compete in terms of consumers who want a different, more immersive, more action driven type of game. DDO is still THE only game that delivers.

Agree. I wish it wouldn't sap my motivation away right now.

waryJerry
05-20-2013, 02:05 PM
It's the people that kill it for Neverwiinter: the game is full of smug know-it-alls who constantly advertise their imaginary superiority on the game's forums. No, wait, that's here....

LeslieWest_GuitarGod
05-20-2013, 04:57 PM
No, they'll never compete in terms of consumers who want a different, more immersive, more action driven type of game. DDO is still THE only game that delivers.

Not true at all. DDO was the master of character development... but Neverwinter is turning into the master of content... and its engine is much much newer. No game developer can churn out enough content for this type of gaming. The high quality nature of the first gen Foundry missions are quite frankly stunning.

Now if you ask me which character creation or combat I like better, I'm going to tell you DDO by a mile on the former, and DDO by a reasonable distance on the latter. However, I find both passable enough in Neverwinter in context, as a lighthearted fun game. And that's the draw of Neverwinter for me - it does enough to get me to experience the content, which is already much varied than DDO.

Better graphics at highest settings, gorgeous artwork, more D&D lore, far more variety of quests that are always evolving. So character immersion I agree 100% with you, but its not so easy to end on DDO for many because when you look at the end product, for many NWO is different enough and good enough to be ... fun.

I wish I could merge the two I really do. I wish Turbine would give us new shiny engine like NWOs, whith the same character development we do now (not the new ddo enhancements forthcoming) and a combination of storyline content and a super dungeon/quest creator like the Foundry.

Since that day will probably never come I find both games immersive, just in different ways.

LeslieWest_GuitarGod
05-20-2013, 05:07 PM
I disagree. NWO is still fundamentally a WoW clone. No ...... spoon-fed style of play made popular by WoW will ever truly compete with DDO.

I wanted to flip the coin on this one. I see where you are coming from but we have immersion busters and spoon fed stuff here as well. How many Shrouds have you've done? I've done well over a thousand. Now that was my favorite quest and the "go-to" for loot for so long. However to be honest, we still after seven years do a couple of handfulls of quests over and over and over again. The content is stale for many of us that have been around. That said, I still believe DDO is the one to beat as the most complete D&D MMO on the market, but it is getting beat because the content is limited and stale, and no matter how much they repaint the duck... it still quacks.

If Turbine ditched the new enhancement stuff, ditched this ridiculous website and went back to the one most liked, and just focused on churning out more content and actually tackling the bugs, they'd hold the interests of more of the long timers who are paying their salary. I know they are trying to reinvent themselves again, but trying to do so and losing your base is not a good idea.

And make no doubts, this time is very different from former new releases. We are losing a lot of people that have been around a long time at a faster pace, with a miniscule number of new blood coming to the game compared to ever before. Its not a doom comment though as I love DDO still, and plan to play it until they turn off the servers, but they need to stop the bleeding and stop making more bad decisions than good decisions for the sake of our community.

Chai
05-20-2013, 05:49 PM
I disagree. NWO is still fundamentally a WoW clone. No game based on the non-instanced scavenger-hunt completely-linear non-repeatable spoon-fed style of play made popular by WoW will ever truly compete with DDO. Yes, they compete for market share, and yes they are winning by a mile. No, they'll never compete in terms of consumers who want a different, more immersive, more action driven type of game. DDO is still THE only game that delivers.

The game is similar to WOW - until you start playing and authoring foundry quests. Ten the entire WOW comparison gets tossed out the window complete with Letterman style glass breaking sound effects.

Ausdoerrt
05-22-2013, 09:42 AM
I have to mention one thing where DDO will never defeat NWO. It's dev involvement, publicity, and customer service. I had a forum login issue recently, it got solved through support tickets/e-mails within a few days. Devs actively communicate with the user-base and give out free stuff for major blunders/unexpected downtimes.

Also, it's stable, not laggy, and waaaay less buggy. Perks of being a fresh game, I suppose.


I disagree. NWO is still fundamentally a WoW clone. No game based on the non-instanced scavenger-hunt completely-linear non-repeatable spoon-fed style of play made popular by WoW will ever truly compete with DDO. Yes, they compete for market share, and yes they are winning by a mile. No, they'll never compete in terms of consumers who want a different, more immersive, more action driven type of game. DDO is still THE only game that delivers.
I have to disagree here, because NWO is hardly based on "non-instanced scavenger-hunt completely-linear non-repeatable spoon-fed style of play". I mean, there's that option for those who like it, but there's much more variety. The story quests do indeed play like a linear single player + co-op RPG. But then you have PvP. And the Foundry. And the dungeons. And the Skirmishes. And you can mix and match these types of content and level as you like. You can skip the linear story if you hate it so much and just play UGC or grind dungeons like in DDO. Variety is good.

Not to mention, NWO has very little of the "kill X of Y" quests, those are usually secondary quests that complete themselves as you follow the story.


If Turbine ditched the new enhancement stuff, ditched this ridiculous website and went back to the one most liked, and just focused on churning out more content and actually tackling the bugs, they'd hold the interests of more of the long timers who are paying their salary. I know they are trying to reinvent themselves again, but trying to do so and losing your base is not a good idea.
I dunno, I think mechanics can go stale just like content can. I'm actually intrigued by the new enhancements (though frankly they're taking way too long to work on them), and I'll probably log into DDO again to check that stuff out, maybe even start playing actively again. So it's a matter of perspective.


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Overall I think much will depend on NWO's future development and speed of content generation, especially with regard to classes. I mean, the game hasn't even officially launched yet. If they prioritize release of character development-related content, I think NWO can go toe-to-toe with DDO in areas beyond those where it already does (like graphics&music, lore, combat, dungeons and bosses etc.) You have to remember that DDO also had a handful of races and classes at beta/launch, and much less playable content.


P.S. I've really gotta laugh at all the people here drawing the conclusion on the game after reaching level 15 or thereabouts. It's like judging DDO by Korthos. I suppose that's somewhat fair, since I dropped DDO after Korthos first time I tried it right after it went F2P. But NWO is really all tutorial until level 10, you only get a full feel of the game after level 15-20 or so.

griffin_230
05-22-2013, 02:34 PM
This guy makes some valid points:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePbu1RZSHZk

FalseFlag
05-30-2013, 08:50 AM
Tried NWO last night. I have no experience with MMO outside of DDO. My impression? It's really, really dull. It's nice looking, but really boring. I dont' care about breakables and the like, but the combat is terrible. The lack of character customization is terrible.

But I can see it being popular with quite a few people judging from the games I know people do play. But even with the (oh so many) things in DDO that bother me or I disagree with, DDO is still the better game. At least at this stage of development. Who knows what they'll end up doing to NWO?

EDIT: Okay, that Gateway web access is pretty darned spiffy. See that Turbine? Make that happen.

Postumus
05-30-2013, 01:20 PM
This guy makes some valid points:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePbu1RZSHZk


Wait... dungeon quests are the worst way to gain xps? Is that for real?

Cyr
05-30-2013, 01:36 PM
I just started playing neverwinter the past few days. The combat is not as good as DDO nor is the character building, but both those things really are legacies of the game's original design. Build issues keep on getting worse, not better, in DDO as the developers seem to want to randomly nerf some things and boost others. That really kills my game enjoyment and with content down to an incredibly small trickle that has an 'xpack' with two lousy quest packs and no raid the arcade style design of neverwinter seems a lot less of a minus then it would be otherwise.

Honestly, I am having tons of fun over there. Way more fun then I have had in DDO for some time and one thing about neverwinter from a newbie perspective which blows DDO away is it's graphics. It is really nice to see hanging clothes move around you as you run through them and hanging practice dummies swing as you hit them or walk into them.

As character building generally gets more complicated as time goes on and content development becomes easier not harder for good companies neverwinter should be drawing away players from DDO steadily. Heck, their foundry system alone makes neverwinters amount of content and ease of content creation so clearly superior to DDO it's not even funny.

griffin_230
05-30-2013, 11:38 PM
Wait... dungeon quests are the worst way to gain xps? Is that for real?

Yeah, the guy was talking about dungeon instances. It's not that big a deal though because NW literally throws tons of XP at you like so much free candy. It's VERY easy to level to max in NW. In fact, it's pretty easy to out-level the queuing system for particular skirmishes/dungeons if you're not careful. It's not so much a problem for the dungeons as you can manually enter them, but currently there is no way to do skirmish content that may have been accidentally out-levelled. Depending on your point of view, the ease at which you can get to max level may or may not be a problem.

Chai
05-31-2013, 12:30 PM
Yeah, the guy was talking about dungeon instances. It's not that big a deal though because NW literally throws tons of XP at you like so much free candy. It's VERY easy to level to max in NW. In fact, it's pretty easy to out-level the queuing system for particular skirmishes/dungeons if you're not careful. It's not so much a problem for the dungeons as you can manually enter them, but currently there is no way to do skirmish content that may have been accidentally out-levelled. Depending on your point of view, the ease at which you can get to max level may or may not be a problem.

Indeed.

I have had to make sure that I do NOT level too quickly because I dont want to skip portions of the game and not get to see the art, graphics, different types of mobs etc.