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View Full Version : Do any of you ever use DC-based wands?



sephiroth1084
04-18-2013, 11:46 PM
This is a serious question.



To date, in the live game, have any of you ever used DC-based wands with the intention of having them augment your other abilities, hoping or expecting enemies to fail their saves?
Have any of you invested in Wand Heightening enhancements in Live?
Have any of you picked up wizard past lives in order to bump your wand DCs by 2/life?
Ultimately, does anyone actually want the Wand Heightening enhancements at all?

I'm hoping to run this as a poll, so please address the questions in a useful manner.

HatsuharuZ
04-18-2013, 11:53 PM
I can only speak for myself, but no, I've used offensive wands but I wasn't impressed with the results. The variety and potency of wands available is subpar, as well. Mostly, it's best just to use healing wands if one has the UMD to use them.

HungarianRhapsody
04-18-2013, 11:54 PM
Never. Never ever ever.

Not even with 3 Wizard past lives and 3 Artificer past lives would I use DC based wands.

voodoogroves
04-18-2013, 11:57 PM
If the DC heightening applied to more than wands (say, all item based effects) it may be worth it.

eachna_gislin
04-19-2013, 12:00 AM
This is a serious question.



To date, in the live game, have any of you ever used DC-based wands with the intention of having them augment your other abilities, hoping or expecting enemies to fail their saves?
Have any of you invested in Wand Heightening enhancements in Live?
Have any of you picked up wizard past lives in order to bump your wand DCs by 2/life?
Ultimately, does anyone actually want the Wand Heightening enhancements at all?

I'm hoping to run this as a poll, so please address the questions in a useful manner.

I use the eternal wands. But only at low-mid levels. They're packed away sometime between level 8 and 10.

I have never completed a wiz life on any toon. The one toon I have working on wizard now, I took to get the +1 to all schools. I didn't even notice the additional wand DC increase.

I have no particular interest in the Wand DC enhancements, but I do use scrolls all the time and would be worried about any changes that would affect scrolls *as well*. So, I would be happy to give up Wand enhancements but not the paired "Wand and Scroll" enhancements.

-Nismu-
04-19-2013, 12:00 AM
web wands are pretty nice against kobolds on early levels. other than that not really, sometimes use ice storm wand. but otherwise only buff wands. it is pity that spellpower applying to wands didn't stay. My artificer liked it.

sephiroth1084
04-19-2013, 12:24 AM
Keep the replies coming, folks. Really hoping some dev sees this and takes note of the responses.

Actually curious to see if anyone has enjoyed employing this tactic. Theoretically, with the Wand Heightening enhancements and 3 past lives, DC-based wands like Charm Person and PK could have a shelf life of a few levels, but I'm skeptical.

SilkofDrasnia
04-19-2013, 12:27 AM
No I don't use wands except on very very very rare occasions where I might have misjudged my sp management, and then have only ever used ice storm.

edit: this is while leveling up during the lower levels.

9Crows
04-19-2013, 12:31 AM
pk charm and web work okay in enorm quests..with the current artie capstone...but you dont need them in enorm...

so not really usefull

Deathdefy
04-19-2013, 01:22 AM
No to every question.

It's a funny (read depressing) exercise to calculate their max DC even with the Artificer Capstone that lets you add Int to their DC.

But the bizarre thing is that these wand DC boosters are found in all of these non-artificer trees. The DC for wands without the artificer capstone is like... 19 including enhancements. Astonishing.

Jay203
04-19-2013, 01:33 AM
1. admittedly yes, pre-GH period. used pk wands for ***** and giggles to see if i can kill something with it. and technically cure wands count, except we don't use it offensively :p

2. no
3. no
4. nope~~

Stanley_Nicholas
04-19-2013, 01:39 AM
No. Not since many years ago when I pulled an eternal wand of charm monster out of Tempest Spine. I figured it has no min level, should be useful helping in a few harbor quests right? Well monsters in level 2 quests saved against it 90% of the time, so I haven't bothered since.

If I need crowd control in the harbor I'll just use a disco ball cake. At least that doesn't force me to use a hand slot in order to use its marginal ability.

sephiroth1084
04-19-2013, 01:44 AM
The replies of, "used it and it sucked," are especially useful.

sephiroth1084
04-19-2013, 02:26 AM
Oh, anyone use either of the epic wands? If so, how has that gone for you?

I mean, other than holding them for their additional benefits.

Iriale
04-19-2013, 04:03 AM
1. To date, in the live game, have any of you ever used DC-based wands with the intention of having them augment your other abilities, hoping or expecting enemies to fail their saves?
DC wand is too low. DC wands are useless.

2. Have any of you invested in Wand Heightening enhancements in Live?
No. They are useless

3. Have any of you picked up wizard past lives in order to bump your wand DCs by 2/life?
Past life wizard is good for spell penetration. DC wand thing is a joke

4. Ultimately, does anyone actually want the Wand Heightening enhancements at all?
If they would allow me to use my casting modifier, wands would be useful in low level content. In higher level content, no- you need a lot of investment going up the DCs of your spells. DC Wands never will be useful in high level content.

The truth, wands need work different. Less charges (10 charges max/wand), more speed, and they should use our spell DC (casting ability, feats, DC enhancements, equipment and so on) So wands would be a short help for when we have few sps. Now non-buff wands are a waste of space in inventory.

Deadlock
04-19-2013, 04:44 AM
Never in 7 years. DC's are far too low to make it worthwhile and heightening won't help it get into the zone where it would be worth it i.e. infallable :)

Would need some major boosts (+5/+10 DC per AP invested?) to make this even remotely useful.

Ertay
04-19-2013, 05:29 AM
To date, in the live game, have any of you ever used DC-based wands with the intention of having them augment your other abilities, hoping or expecting enemies to fail their saves?
At very low levels, and only with my 3 wiz TR caster, I am guilty of having used web wands. I would never think of doing so in any other case.


Have any of you invested in Wand Heightening enhancements in Live?
see 1.


Have any of you picked up wizard past lives in order to bump your wand DCs by 2/life?
I'd assume nobody would ever tr just for wand dcs. Wizard is of course a very desirable TR, but it doesn't have anything to do with wand dcs. I would literally take +1 spellcraft per life over it, if that's any indication.


Ultimately, does anyone actually want the Wand Heightening enhancements at all?
Of course not. At least not if they were not a prequesite to the much better scroll boosts after them.

Truga
04-19-2013, 05:35 AM
Nope.

Gkar
04-19-2013, 05:47 AM
I tried them repeatedly on different builds and rarely found them to be of any use at all. That includes a TR3 Wiz BTW. I was excited to try them on my first arti since I sounded like it might work for them, but only than a very small number of levels at very low level they were really all useless. Oh, and on those builds that I tried them I took all the wand heightening I could get.

I don't think I'd every try again, waste of inventory space. I won't take wand heightening again on any build unless Turbine forces me to take them, I certainly don't want them and would never make any use of them.

Rawrargh
04-19-2013, 06:51 AM
Found a PK wand last life right before TR'ing and figured I'd keep it and try it out, I've used it this life pretty successfully, but we're talking low levels here.

Oh yes, this is the first time I've ever used a DC based wand... Didn't even realize my wiz pastlives gave a bonus to wands lol.

oweieie
04-19-2013, 08:31 AM
DC based wands are right up there with spell resistance in usefulness.

Singular_is_annoyed
05-01-2013, 08:46 PM
Nope. I never use DC based wands. There are no advantages to using them and only drawbacks.

When I first started this game, I found a phantasmal killer wand and gave it a go. After one quest of uselessness, I have been vendoring almost all wands I find.

~Snortie
05-02-2013, 12:47 AM
The only wands i use are buff wands (shield, energy resistance,...), heal wand and fireball wands

Yes fireball wands....to blow door with my wizard because he has not enough str to do it by weapon

The DC on wands are too low, even at low level quests to be useful. For damage wands, monster saves for half and you get no enhancement, so damage are pathetics
And on saves or nothing, you get ...nothing

I once tried a wand of charm in Butcher Path (a lvl 2 quest)
In normal, i usually succeed a charm every 3 charges
On hard, you can use all your wand and get no success

~TuggyNE
05-02-2013, 01:21 AM
I've tried wands once or twice; I think I bought an eternal wand of charm monster one time. Never had any real luck with any of them, and the DC numbers are so low they didn't look encouraging. Also, I'm not a fan of burning consumables just to function. :p

~Finghin
05-02-2013, 03:41 AM
No
No
No
And no

~Meetch72
05-02-2013, 03:50 AM
One DC based wand I use semi-regularly...

Wand of knock. Sooner or later I might roll a 20 and conquer the nasty lock. Unless its DC is even higher than that!

But yeah, offense wands relying on DC are a waste of time as they stand as they are just far too situational.

So, to fill in using poll format:

1. Yes at first, until I realised how useless it was to try (on a UMD rogue).
2. No. Failing on a roll over 10 kinda eliminated the thought.
3. No, but I haven't run a wizard yet. Never considered for that purpose though.
4. Yes, if they're adjusted to be useful. As they stand, no.

Wizza
05-02-2013, 04:45 AM
Tried once, never used them again. Useless.

Aolas
06-28-2013, 12:01 AM
Traditionally (from folklore) a wand is just a focus that helps a witch or wizard to cast spells. So using a wand would give you say +1 DC to all your spells. The wand heightening enhancement lines would naturally allow you to increase this wand bonus even further.

Only thing I would add about DC based items is that they can still be functional if the creature rolls a natural 1 for it's save, so statistically a wand with 100 charges would succeed in affecting a resistant creature 5 times. Therefore DC wands are not useless as people claim since, in order to be useless, they would have to fail 100% of the time.

In fact we should be looking at that 5% margin of probability and making decisions to reduce it. Thanks for letting the team know. Now we understand that a monster with a fortitude save of 478455 can still be affected 5% of the time a wand probability of 0.025% seems far more appropriate.

Noctus
06-28-2013, 04:54 AM
Therefore DC wands are not useless as people claim since, in order to be useless, they would have to fail 100% of the time.

Wrong.

For being a crappy item whose usage atually is a bad detriment to your successful contribution to a quest a "mere" 95% failure rate is quiet sufficient.

Because, you know, while you are fiddling around and wasting time with a wand, stuff still happens, like, eh, whatever a monster might even attack you! Unhindered!

floydpepper
06-28-2013, 05:22 AM
This is a serious question.



To date, in the live game, have any of you ever used DC-based wands with the intention of having them augment your other abilities, hoping or expecting enemies to fail their saves?
Have any of you invested in Wand Heightening enhancements in Live?
Have any of you picked up wizard past lives in order to bump your wand DCs by 2/life?
Ultimately, does anyone actually want the Wand Heightening enhancements at all?

I'm hoping to run this as a poll, so please address the questions in a useful manner.


I've used web wands for a short time on my artificer (with capstone), but considering the time it takes to swap to a wand and back to a repeater Tactical Detonation is better crowd control, and even if I run out of SP just shooting the enemy is more efficient (maybe with a "special effects" weapon like a paralyzing repeater). I have used Halt Undead scrolls on my rogue in Crystal Cove, but only because non-intelligent undead don't get saves. On the one wizard I've played so far I did use damage wands on lower levels when I ran out of SP (eternal wand of magic missile, for example), but no wands that require saves (I switched to using heightened web SLA at mid levels when I ran low on SP). So in short, whenever I have used offensive wands or scrolls on any of my characters I made sure they required no saves, and I can't see myself taking wizard past lives or levels in Wand Heightening to increase wand DCs, at least not on a rogue or artificer.

I never took wand Wand Heightening on any of my rogues or artificers, but I always take the Wand and Scroll Mastery line (mostly for better heals), so I certainly hope that Wand Heightening will not become a prerequisite for W&S Mastery.

In short, on rogues and artificers, at the very least, but also on all other classes I consider the Wand Heightening enhancement line to be completely useless.

LupusVai
06-28-2013, 05:56 AM
Fireball and ice storm wands.

For one quest only. Inferno of the damned just to light and out out the torches.

Otherwise DC based or damage wands are just vendor trash even on normal difficulties they are pointless.

If wand hightening increased the caster level and duration of the spell cast from the wand though, I'd think it was an ok enhancement. Extra length buffs from wands would be nice enough.

JasonJi72
06-28-2013, 06:30 AM
The only DC based wand I ever use is a Charm Person wand.

I actually want them to fail that save since it acts like a bluff effect for pulling without having to invest in bluff.

Taking wand heightening is utterly useless.

Enoach
06-28-2013, 09:15 AM
Prior to my 7th Life I did not invest in Wand Heightening and just enjoyed the Wizard Past Life Bonuses.

Wands of Hypnotism, Charm Person, Charm Monster, Hold Person, Web, Fireball etc. with a boost to their DCs helped me feel more caster like in that I didn't have to pull out a melee weapon to conserve SP and still managed to be effective.

My 7th life I decided to take the full line. I'm currently level 15 and have 3 of the Heightened Enhancements plus my Wizard PLs +6. So now All of my Wands have a +9 DC.

Currently my main usage is with Cacophonic Verge which casts Sonic Blast at Caster Level 8

So 10 + 1 (Spell Level) + 9 (Enhancement+PL) = 20 DC Will Save

My common practice is to cast from the wand and follow up with SP Nuke. The Goal is to get as many Dazed as I can to get the damage bonus. While not 100% successful I have on occasion have the majority of the group Dazed just long enough for the Nuke to hit.

I will maintain this into my Epic Eternal Wands to see if I see fewer 1/2 damage while running that content.

Chette
06-30-2013, 08:29 AM
So I'm pretty sure in the dev chat from the last preview it was mentioned that the wand DC enhancements were going to be removed, or rolled in with the wand and scroll mastery enhancements. Yet here we are two months later and nothing has been done. I mentioned this during yesterdays dev chat, but my question was ignored. I wouldn't expect to see it changed any time soon.

The very fact that this enhancement was even in the game makes me question the person who put it there. If they actually think that is a needed or wanted enhancement, they know absolutely nothing about the game play of the very system they're designing for.

karpedieme
07-01-2013, 10:50 AM
And what blows with this enhancement is that in most cases it is a pre-req to attain Scroll Mastery.

My rogue is strapped with AP trying to fit in racials and class enhancements as is... I en up losing 75-80 off a heal scroll now.

Wand heightening and Wand and scroll mastery need to be seperate.....

Laters

HastyPudding
07-01-2013, 07:10 PM
Never used a wand for offensive purposes other than low level quests like charm or web. I might use a blur wand early on, or an invisibility wand occasionally, but other than that, no, never.

Having craptastic enhancements as a prerequisite for very common, widely-used enhancements is just ridiculous.

Andu_Indorin
07-01-2013, 07:57 PM
Having Wand Heightening as a prerequisite for scroll mastery isn't simply absurd. It is another example of the structurally unsound basis for this entire enhancement system. The only reason for its inclusion is that there was a need to fill the lower part of a "branch" on a "tree."

"Pride goeth before the fall."

FestusHood
07-01-2013, 08:09 PM
Let's make a comparison. If you're lucky, you can find a paralyzing weapon that can be used at minimum level of 10. The dc of such a weapon is 17 against a will save. Do paralyzing weapons work when you are level 10? Heck yes they do, with astonishing frequency.

Let's say you have a charm monster wand. It would have an innate dc of 14 against a will save. 3 wizard past lives would push that to 20. The 3 wand enhancements would raise that to 23. I doubt very much that a wand heightened in this way has a 95% failure rate during the same quests when a paralyzing weapon would be useful.

If your paralyzing weapon is only procing 5% of the time, it's long past the point you should have retired it.

That being said, without the wizard past lives, the dc enhancements wouldn't be that helpful, and i don't think i would ever take them if had the choice. I'm not saying i would take them if i had the past lives either, only that they are not as completely useless as some would say.

Making them a prerequisite is a bad idea, for the very reason that most people will not have 3 wizard past lives. Also, like paralyzing weapons, they don't scale, and eventually will become completely useless, as once you reach the point where things only fail on a one, they literally provide no benefit over not having them.

Even enhancements which people don't like, such as ones that just give you small amounts of armor class can at least be shown to have some tiny possibility to provide a benefit at higher levels.

Flavilandile
07-02-2013, 04:14 AM
I'm sure I already had answered that one...

Anyway :

1 : no, except a few web wands 7 years ago... just to discover that they didn't work.
2 : no
3 : no
4 : no

LilyOphelia
07-04-2013, 09:18 PM
As an update, Artificers no longer have this enhancement anymore. Rogues still do, so who knows what's happening there, but it is gone from the Arti trees. Enjoy, because I sure will!

CoasterHops
07-04-2013, 10:19 PM
I recently found an Eternal KY Wand of Lubricating whilst pilfering from some of Baudry's crates, needless to say that even with my 3 Wiz PLs, full enhancement line and having my Arti Capstone I couldn't get my wife remotely interested in testing it out.

Wand heightening enhancements should have been the first thing removed from all enhancement lines with this pass, they are nothing more than a trap for newb players...