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View Full Version : Analyzing: The Forest for the Trees



HalfORCastrator
04-18-2013, 07:07 PM
A big mistake that I see a lot of people are making is focusing on specific effects or an increase in AP cost or some other detail. While I'm sure some of this does need to change, I think some of the reactions are a kneejerk response. I think one of the better ways of figuring out how your character shakes out after the enhancement pass(ignoring that this is only "Alpha") is to take a prePass character of yours and comparing an "as-much-as-possible" postPass twin to see how it helps or hurts it.

Take for example my wizard, lvl20 human(before I changed it to Shiradi)*:
preALPHA human 20 wiz:
forc: 1/0/0 (01)
elec: 2/1/1 (04)
cold: 7/1/1 (09)
acid: 7/1/1 (09)
max: 1 (2)
height: 1 (4)
wiz int: 3 (12)
hum int: 1 (02)
hum con: 1 (04)
rac tough: 2 (03)
wiz spen: 3 (12)
pm3: (08)
scholar: 3 (06)
lich: 1 (02)
cap: 1 (02)
=80ap

total:
8int
5con
3 spell pen
100 spell power+crit enhs in 2 elements
40 hp
80 sp
90 neg spell power / 9%crit/1.5
+1 necro dc
SLAs

This is roundabout where he looked enhancement wise, before I gave up on DCs.



This is what I'd most likely turn him into(if DCs became practical):

postALPHA human 20 wiz:
PM:
core:
forms+cap: 5 (10)
tier1:
deathless vigor: 2 (04)
spellcrit neg: 1 (02)
neg energy cond: 1 (01)
tier2:
meta max: 1 (02)
bone armor: 3 (03)
spellcrit neg: 1 (02)
tier3:
neg/rep/lit dmg: 3 (06, doesn't state in forum description, I'll assume 2 each. **Am I misinterpreting it? I read it as 50% more neg dmg healing, 50% more light dmg done to you, etc)
spellcrit neg: 1 (02)
int: 1 (02)
tier4:
int: 1 (02)
spellcrit neg: 1 (02)
tier:5
necro focus: 1 (02)
imp shroud: 1 (02)
total: 42
AM:
core:
SLAs: 3 (04)
tier1:
scholar: 1 (02)
spen: 1 (02)
spell crit: 1 (02)
tier2:
spen: 1 (02)
spell crit: 1 (02)
tier3:
int: 1 (02)
spen: 1 (02)
spell crit: 1 (02)
tier4:
spell crit: 1 (02)
mastery: 1 (02)
int: 1 (02)
total: 26
HUM:
core:
adapt+vers: 2 (02)
tier1:
action surge: 3 (06)
tier2:
caster style: 2 (04)
total: 12
=80ap

total:
11int
3int from action boost
4con
3 spell pen
3 necro dcs
30 hp
30 sp
10prr
(11base+5wis+4gh+2luck)22 heal
(.75*42)=31 uni spell power
(.75*42)=31 neg spell power
10 neg spell power (72+22=94 total) / 8% crit
(23base+27int+4gh+2luck)=66 spellcraft / (11base+15con+4gh+2luck)=32 conc-if they change spellcraft
uni spell power (66+31+6=104 total/32+32+6=70 total)
58% negative dmg amp
50% light dmg amp
and the new Magical Training bonuses


Very big difference. Ups the self-healing which is a step in the right direction, and increases int and dcs which is absolutely needed, though probably more needs to be done on both fronts. Overall I think it's a big improvement.

Now, wizard enhancements look a bit better than other classes, but I personally think this is a better way of comparison than going enhancement by enhancement, ap cost by ap cost and comparing like that. And don't get me wrong, you'll gain some and lose some with some characters, others will be made useless, but that's going to happen in an enhancement pass like this. There are character-building advantages to the new system, find one that fits the flavor and fun that you had with the old build.

Vellrad
04-18-2013, 07:15 PM
You won't convince me, that spending 40 points in dumb protection tree on bunch of worthless junk to have +40 spellpower is better than 1 AP for the same on live.

You also won't convince me that losing haste boost is cool.

Lets face it: new enchancements are huge nerf to a lot of people.

kingfisher
04-18-2013, 09:24 PM
You won't convince me, that spending 40 points in dumb protection tree on bunch of worthless junk to have +40 spellpower is better than 1 AP for the same on live.

You also won't convince me that losing haste boost is cool.

Lets face it: new enchancements are huge nerf to a lot of people.

qft

Qezuzu
04-18-2013, 10:05 PM
I know my rogue is happy, but the main thing I think people are concerned about is the ability to multi-class, not so much how pure builds fare. Because you're limited to three class trees.

The class tree limit simply has to go.


You also won't convince me that losing haste boost is cool.

In fairness, Varg said that was not intended. It remains to be seen how many other things are "not intended."

And yeah cleric enhancements are a mess.

gphysalis
04-18-2013, 10:27 PM
neg/rep/lit dmg: 3 (06, doesn't state in forum description, I'll assume 2 each. **Am I misinterpreting it? I read it as 50% more neg dmg healing, 50% more light dmg done to you, etc)
58% negative dmg amp
50% light dmg amp

As written, I believe that it is 50% less negative damage healing. i.e. you lose 50% of you self sufficiency.

Pretty lame.

Qezuzu
04-18-2013, 11:00 PM
As written, I believe that it is 50% less negative damage healing. i.e. you lose 50% of you self sufficiency.

Pretty lame.

No, it's amp.

Elaril
04-19-2013, 01:35 AM
No shot at convincing me when they put general class enhancements into separate trees. And in tiers higher than the bottom one, no less.