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View Full Version : Single Class, Multiclass, and Capstones - to be successful you need to open things up



Certon
04-16-2013, 12:52 PM
I've been pondering the issue of capstones. In the old system, capstones were a reward for staying 'pure' but they were inconsistent in their usefulness.

I think in the new system, capstones should be divided into two categories: prestige capstones (for spending enough points in a tree) and class capstones (for reaching 20 in a class.) Prestige capstones would require a point expenditure in their given tree, and would be exclusive (meaning if you have a prestige capstone, all other prestige capstones are locked out, unless specifically excluded for in the capstone's description.) Class capstones would be naturally exclusive, due to the requirement of 20 levels in the given class, and would cost 1 AP. A 20th level fighter/kensai could have a prestige and a class capstone, as a reward for focusing on a single class.

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Upon reflection though, the class capstone idea might need a little tweaking. Just like there are different element focuses for sorcerers, there are also different weapon focuses for melee classes. Perhaps there could be 3 or more different capstones for each class, each exclusive and locking out the others, which give the character the desired power.

An example for that would be a ranged Kensai fighter 20th level. Her class capstone might have ranged alacrity 15% or 10% doubleshot. A dual wielding 20th level kensai fighter might choose 10% offhand proc chance or melee alacrity 15%. A two handed kensai fighter might choose a capstone which doubles STR damage on two handed weapons, or adds a 15% chance for weapon proc off glancing blows.

What I'm trying to say is give the players a swath of options. If you want the new system to be popular, people need a veritable buffet of choices. If you limit them to one or two, you will hamstring your efforts to improve the game.

I REPEAT: Balanced variety is the key to this pass being effective. If you keep things too simple, sure it will be easy to implement, but it will leave people wanting. If you give people a lot of choices, you will make more people happy.

maddmatt70
04-16-2013, 01:02 PM
I was actually thinking that they should lower the number of action points required to be able to be eligible to get the level 18 and level 20 core abilities that way a pure class could afford two level 20 core abilities in two different tress. There is a little bit too much power in mulitclassing I think so just a bit of power upgrade for pure or level 18 builds would be good.

Cetus
04-16-2013, 01:34 PM
What I'm trying to say is give the players a swath of options. If you want the new system to be popular, people need a veritable buffet of choices. If you limit them to one or two, you will hamstring your efforts to improve the game.

I REPEAT: Balanced variety is the key to this pass being effective. If you keep things too simple, sure it will be easy to implement, but it will leave people wanting. If you give people a lot of choices, you will make more people happy.

Agreed

I'd much prefer to give Kensei's a choice of say, TWO, weapons that they can pick as their focus weapons out of a general class (i.e. slashing, bludgeoning, piercing, etc) than a large range of focus weapons that are forced upon me.

Why can't I pick say, battleaxes and bastard swords, mauls and warhammers, or greataxes and falchions as my focus weapons? It would be much better for me if I can control two weapons to be a master with, rather than the package deal we get no control over.

This is a great suggestion from the vantage point of new weapon releases. As a class that is forced to specialize, new desireable weapons threaten our stability because of this specialization requirement.

If I can choose a second weapon type out of the general class of slashing weapons, then I can use my greataxe in association with that new badass falchion that comes out. Or, I can use my ESOS and my breach when I decide. It provides the same flavor of specialization while still providing choice.

Taojeff
04-16-2013, 01:57 PM
I was actually thinking that they should lower the number of action points required to be able to be eligible to get the level 18 and level 20 core abilities that way a pure class could afford two level 20 core abilities in two different tress. There is a little bit too much power in mulitclassing I think so just a bit of power upgrade for pure or level 18 builds would be good.

I think its a balance issue why there are making so its nigh impossible to pick up two different capstones from two different trees. As it is now, some builds can pick +8 or more to damage with a weapon. I can only imagine if I was able to get stuff from the top of Kensai and Tempest.

They would have to go back and re-balance too much content. We already have a problem with certain builds being overpowered from what I can see, we certainly do not need to make it worse.

maddmatt70
04-16-2013, 02:07 PM
I think its a balance issue why there are making so its nigh impossible to pick up two different capstones from two different trees. As it is now, some builds can pick +8 or more to damage with a weapon. I can only imagine if I was able to get stuff from the top of Kensai and Tempest.

They would have to go back and re-balance too much content. We already have a problem with certain builds being overpowered from what I can see, we certainly do not need to make it worse.

I think multi-class's have an advantage currently in the way this is structered. This actual advantage will depend on how much it costs for the enhancements in the end. If the devs really lower the costs then multiclass will have an even greater advantage.

I was thinking about why should my fighter tank stay pure. If he could have both kensai and defender level 20s it makes more sense, but for just one not seeing the cost-benefit - I could go with 6 paladin 2 monk and get alot more benefit for example I am guessing. The same with the ranger deepwood sniper and AA for a ranger level 20 not quite seeing the benefit when somebody could greatly enhance sneak damage dps or general dps with rogue or feat options with fighter. Cleric I do not see a lot of reason to stay pure, but what have you.

Certon
04-16-2013, 02:50 PM
I think its a balance issue why there are making so its nigh impossible to pick up two different capstones from two different trees. As it is now, some builds can pick +8 or more to damage with a weapon. I can only imagine if I was able to get stuff from the top of Kensai and Tempest.

They would have to go back and re-balance too much content. We already have a problem with certain builds being overpowered from what I can see, we certainly do not need to make it worse.

They shouldn't make points spent a prerequisite for prestige capstones. It should just be that if you have one capstone you can't have another one unless an exception is made.