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Phidius
04-15-2013, 10:56 AM
Actually, I don't - not really. While I started playing back in 2006, I didn't really get into the game until much later, and so my memory of the early game is pretty fuzzy.

Over the weekend, I got the manual out of the box in hopes that it would describe the original enhancement system - maybe a few screenshots or charts listing the abilities, but no luck.

See, I'd like to make the claim that the original enhancement system was simple and easy to understand, but very lacking in versatility. I'd like to point out to Turbine that they made the right choice to replace an simple, constricting system with a complicated yet versatile system.

But all I have is a vague recollection of how the original system worked, and while that's good enough for me to bich about, I'm hoping that some other old timers might be able to describe a typical setup of enhancements from back in 2006. Maybe even some screenshots?

chanw4
04-15-2013, 10:59 AM
Actually, I don't - not really. While I started playing back in 2006, I didn't really get into the game until much later, and so my memory of the early game is pretty fuzzy.

Over the weekend, I got the manual out of the box in hopes that it would describe the original enhancement system - maybe a few screenshots or charts listing the abilities, but no luck.

See, I'd like to make the claim that the original enhancement system was simple and easy to understand, but very lacking in versatility. I'd like to point out to Turbine that they made the right choice to replace an simple, constricting system with a complicated yet versatile system.

But all I have is a vague recollection of how the original system worked, and while that's good enough for me to bich about, I'm hoping that some other old timers might be able to describe a typical setup of enhancements from back in 2006. Maybe even some screenshots?

If i remember correctly, for every level, you gain access to certain enhancment and you can slot them into an enhancement slot i think. You have 4 enhancement slot i think.

Bogenbroom
04-15-2013, 11:02 AM
In the Days of Yore, if I remember correctly, you could only ever carry 4 enhancements at any one time and as you progressed you gained access to more powerful enhancements, but you had to drop one of you old ones to take a new one.

I think that method was scratched a year, maybe two, in.

Tobril
04-15-2013, 11:06 AM
4 slots.

I want to say you only had a chance to fix it on levels ups
but that was several lives ago and I may be wrong.

chanw4
04-15-2013, 11:10 AM
4 slots.

I want to say you only had a chance to fix it on levels ups
but that was several lives ago and I may be wrong.

I can't remember but was it every rank you gain to get a chance to slot the enhancement or every level? I seem to be exicted about a rank up back in the days, maybe just for the ding? lol

its been so long.

Phidius
04-15-2013, 11:11 AM
I think I read in the manual that the slots were reset when you leveled, so I think your memory is correct.

But what about the choices? Where they dependant on the classes you selected for your build, or did everyone choose from the same list?

I'm hoping that someone will have an old build documented, or maybe some screenshots that show specific enhancement choices...

chanw4
04-15-2013, 11:13 AM
I think I read in the manual that the slots were reset when you leveled, so I think your memory is correct.

But what about the choices? Where they dependant on the classes you selected for your build, or did everyone choose from the same list?

I'm hoping that someone will have an old build documented, or maybe some screenshots that show specific enhancement choices...

Classes and races gain access to different enhancement. Can't remember if general enhancement exist.

Tyrande
04-15-2013, 05:34 PM
Back then during the February of 2006 when it was just out of beta of the original DDO: Stormreach when the level cap was 10 there were only a total of 4 (four) enhancements per character, regardless of class or the mix thereof.

As you advance in higher levels in the class, you replace the enhancements with better enhancements. Do not think there were generic enhancements back then; and toughness enhancements did not exist, and toughness was not a requirement for many if not all builds.

Flavilandile
04-16-2013, 02:20 AM
Back then during the February of 2006 when it was just out of beta of the original DDO: Stormreach when the level cap was 10 there were only a total of 4 (four) enhancements per character, regardless of class or the mix thereof.

As you advance in higher levels in the class, you replace the enhancements with better enhancements. Do not think there were generic enhancements back then; and toughness enhancements did not exist, and toughness was not a requirement for many if not all builds.

You had two Enhancements during the Leveling process and the last two where Bonus Action Points received once you were capped at 10.

The enhancements were the same for everybody... and at that time a 10 CON character was common... on the other hand... you couldn't enter alone in any quest - on normal - beyond the Lower Harbor and expect to survive long. And even the quests of the Lower Harbor were dangerous to solo. It wasn't difficult to pug up, as the more you were the best chances you had to actually survive the quest... And there was no Bravery Stupidity to keep nor 10% no death bonus.

Stanley_Nicholas
04-16-2013, 02:51 AM
Enhancements existed as various tiers, like Human Versatility I, II, III, IV. Or Fighter Item Defense I, II, III, IV. When you would gain a level, one or more of these enhancements would rank up as well. So at level 2 you might be able to take Human Versatility I, and once you reach level 3 the enhancement would rank up to HV II. Every character had a pool of around 8-12 enhancements to choose from once they were high enough level, based on their race and class. The pool would be larger for multiclasses, but they wouldn't be as highly ranked except for the racial ones. You had 4 slots to select which of these enhancements you wanted to use, and you could swap them out at a trainer on demand.

So yes OP, you're basically right. The original system was very simple and very restrictive, and the more complicated system with more freedom that replaced it was a major boon to build diversity. It was very good for the game.

Stanley_Nicholas
04-16-2013, 03:09 AM
Jackpot: I found an old set of online guides to DDO on tentonhammer from the original 2006 release. To see enhancement info as it was at the time, complete with descriptions of how the system worked and their reviews of the usefulness of each enhancement, look at any of the race guides, or for classes go to the class guide which contains a further link to the enhancement guide for that class.

http://www.tentonhammer.com/ddo/guides

Kakashi67
04-16-2013, 07:19 AM
You had two Enhancements during the Leveling process and the last two where Bonus Action Points received once you were capped at 10.

The enhancements were the same for everybody... and at that time a 10 CON character was common... on the other hand... you couldn't enter alone in any quest - on normal - beyond the Lower Harbor and expect to survive long. And even the quests of the Lower Harbor were dangerous to solo. It wasn't difficult to pug up, as the more you were the best chances you had to actually survive the quest... And there was no Bravery Stupidity to keep nor 10% no death bonus.

No, there were xp debt penalties on death that had to be paid before getting more xp. Joy.

Talon_Moonshadow
04-16-2013, 09:11 AM
Yes... and I want my 5 skill points back. :(

Matuse
04-16-2013, 10:10 AM
The enhancements were the same for everybody...

Wrong. There were many class-specific enhancements. I remember being super excited at being able to take the "Extra lay on hands" enhancement for my Paladin.


And there was no Bravery Stupidity to keep nor 10% no death bonus.

There was no Bravery as it exists today, but you DID get bonus XP for running a quest over your level. So run normal difficulty Tear of Dhakaan while you were level 6, and you'd get a huge boost in the XP awarded vs doing it at level 9.

And while the no-deaths wasn't a specific bonus, dying gave your character an XP penalty. As in...you had 50,000 XP, and died...well now you have 45,000 XP.

Phidius
04-16-2013, 10:30 AM
Jackpot: I found an old set of online guides to DDO on tentonhammer from the original 2006 release. To see enhancement info as it was at the time, complete with descriptions of how the system worked and their reviews of the usefulness of each enhancement, look at any of the race guides, or for classes go to the class guide which contains a further link to the enhancement guide for that class.

http://www.tentonhammer.com/ddo/guides
First of all, +1!

However, the list of enhancements for Warforged show some with a requirement of being level 12. I suspect someone updated them after the change to the enhancement system...

Nevertheless, it was still fun to read through the tutorials!

Stanley_Nicholas
04-16-2013, 10:39 AM
First of all, +1!

However, the list of enhancements for Warforged show some with a requirement of being level 12. I suspect someone updated them after the change to the enhancement system...

Nevertheless, it was still fun to read through the tutorials!

Looks like you're right, some parts of it apparently did get updated beyond what was there at the original release. But others, like the Fighter enhancements, look like they're just the original release ones and don't even have min levels listed.

Phidius
04-16-2013, 11:17 AM
That's good to know - I didn't roll up a fighter until rather recently (2010-2011), so I never got to see them.



Fighter’s Dodge
Official Text: Dodge grants you a greater Armor Class bonus.

Fighter’s Combat Expertise
Official Text: Combat Expertise grants you a greater Armor Class bonus.

Armored Agility
Official Text: Reduces the armor check penalty that applies to many of your skills by 3, regardless of armor worn.

Item Defense
Official Text: You are skilled at protecting your gear against damage, granting you a 60% chance to negate potential item wear before it occurs.

Fighter’s Mobility
Official Text: Mobility grants you a greater Armor Class bonus while tumbling.

Fighter’s Strength
Official Text: Grants a +3 increase to Strength score.

Critical Accuracy
Official Text: Grants +12 bonus to confirm critical hits.

Fighter’s Action Boost
Official Text: This enhancement grants the ability to receive short-term boosts to attacks, Armor Class, or attack speed.

Fighter’s Armor Mastery
Official Text: Grants +4 to the max Dex bonus on your armor.

Fighter’s Strategy
Official Text: Grants +6 to the DC of all your combat feats.

Fighter’s Tower Shield Mastery
Official Text: Grants +4 to the max Dex bonus on your tower shield.

Skill Recovery
Official Text: Grants a +8 bonus to Heal and Repair skills.

Skill Tactics
Official Text: Grants a +8 bonus to Intimidate and Tumble skills.


Does this look right to those of you who played Fighters back then? Some of them look so tasty that I can't imagine they were available to a level 1 Fighter splash... which would support the theory that better enhancements were unlocked as you climbed higher in your class.

Stanley_Nicholas
04-16-2013, 11:53 AM
That's good to know - I didn't roll up a fighter until rather recently (2010-2011), so I never got to see them.


Does this look right to those of you who played Fighters back then? Some of them look so tasty that I can't imagine they were available to a level 1 Fighter splash... which would support the theory that better enhancements were unlocked as you climbed higher in your class.

Ah, my bad. They don't have the minimum levels listed, but they are definitely the ones available from when the level cap was 12. You can tell for sure because nobody got the +3 to the main stat until the cap was raised to 12. Still, it was from the original enhancement system, not the one we have today.

They definitely upgraded as you leveled too. So at level 2, Fighter's Strength would only grant +1 str, but later on (lvl 6-7 maybe? I want to say it was lvl 7) it became +2 and at 11 or 12 it granted +3. I remember that the current system lowered the min level for the +3 stat enhancements, from 11-12 to 10.

And they definitely weren't all available at level 1. I distinctly remember not having enough available enhancements to fill all 4 slots until around level 3-4.

My first character from the pre-release days was a cleric, but my second was a fighter, rolled maybe a month or two after release. Looking at those enhancements brings back memories of trying to squeeze out every possible +to-hit possible for Tempest Spine because of those Blackguards - most melees could only hit them on a 20 unless you were using an action boost or were lucky enough to have a +3 str item and/or a +4 weapon (with no other enchantments on it).

Flavilandile
04-16-2013, 12:25 PM
You made me reinstall the original CD just to check things...

There wasn't any details of the enhancements available just the following text :


Enhancements are bonuses available to you depending on your race and class.
Action points earned while gaining ranks can be spent at a trainer on Enhancements for your character.
You may have only four Enhancements active at a time,
so if you have more than four active, you will need to remove one before adding another.
Action points for enhancements are reset everytime you go up a level, so be sure to spend them before training.

Xyfiel
04-17-2013, 12:44 AM
Some misinformation in this thread.

Every ap you earned you could spend on an enhancement, but the options were fewer than today. You only had 4 total slots. Most of the aps you got went wasted because once you had your 4, you had to wait to the level the next upgrade was if there as another. Due to inability to change an ap unless you had a new one, after mod2(Titan), it was changed so we no longer had capped xp and earning another xp dot gave you an ap up to 4. You technically didn't earn xp into 11, just bonus xp for aps.

Most enhancements went like:
This is my second edit of this part. I am thinking stats were 2/5/8 and they stacked from different classes. I made a 8sorc/2paladin when Drow came out and I think I had +4 cha(3 sorc 1 pal). Also thinking stats at class levels 2/6/10. When the cap went to 12 or 14 we saw for only a short time some classes get a +4(because people complained on the forums why some classes didn't have them), it was removed in favor of balance. I think it was 2/5/8 and changed later to 2/6/10 for balance.
Skills and boost:
Levels 1/3/5/7/9, I think skills were odd and boosts were even, fighters and paladins with attack boost was the main way to hurt Drow and Fire giants in elite Tempest.
Human V was +1/2/3/4/5 skills. No boost, it was constant +5.
Fighter Dodge and CE doubled the bonus from each. Almost every Fighter had them and back then almost everyone was Fighter or Paladin for melee, or even 8Fighter/2Paladin sometimes with rogue splash. Hence the Batman build and its following nerf because some idiot decided it was ok to have evasion in heavy armor. AC mattered, Paladin wand access mattered, saves mattered, sword and board mattered.
I think the oddest one was the +negative spell damage when the only spell it affected was chill touch.

Stanley_Nicholas
04-17-2013, 02:53 AM
Some misinformation in this thread.

Every ap you earned you could spend on an enhancement, but the options were fewer than today. You only had 4 total slots. Most of the aps you got went wasted because once you had your 4, you had to wait to the level the next upgrade was if there as another. Due to inability to change an ap unless you had a new one, after mod2(Titan), it was changed so we no longer had capped xp and earning another xp dot gave you an ap up to 4. You technically didn't earn xp into 11, just bonus xp for aps.

Most enhancements went like:
This is my second edit of this part. I am thinking stats were 2/5/8 and they stacked from different classes. I made a 8sorc/2paladin when Drow came out and I think I had +4 cha(3 sorc 1 pal). Also thinking stats at class levels 2/6/10. When the cap went to 12 or 14 we saw for only a short time some classes get a +4(because people complained on the forums why some classes didn't have them), it was removed in favor of balance. I think it was 2/5/8 and changed later to 2/6/10 for balance.
Skills and boost:
Levels 1/3/5/7/9, I think skills were odd and boosts were even, fighters and paladins with attack boost was the main way to hurt Drow and Fire giants in elite Tempest.
Human V was +1/2/3/4/5 skills. No boost, it was constant +5.
Fighter Dodge and CE doubled the bonus from each. Almost every Fighter had them and back then almost everyone was Fighter or Paladin for melee, or even 8Fighter/2Paladin sometimes with rogue splash. Hence the Batman build and its following nerf because some idiot decided it was ok to have evasion in heavy armor. AC mattered, Paladin wand access mattered, saves mattered, sword and board mattered.
I think the oddest one was the +negative spell damage when the only spell it affected was chill touch.

Sounds about right, although I could have sworn at the time of launch the class +stat enhancements only went up to +2, and +3 was only added later. I do recall the brief +4's though.