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Deadlock
04-15-2013, 04:49 AM
Can someone please tell me that I'm mistaken and all clerics are not now aligned to the Sovereign Host?

Have gone through a few races now and I'm not seeing any differences.

Surely it's just me that's not had enough coffee this morning?

shadereaper33
04-15-2013, 04:50 AM
huh?

could you be a bit more specific?

Charononus
04-15-2013, 04:51 AM
us is now the faith enhancement from what I've seen

FranOhmsford
04-15-2013, 04:55 AM
Can someone please tell me that I'm mistaken and all clerics are not now aligned to the Sovereign Host?

Have gone through a few races now and I'm not seeing any differences.

Surely it's just me that's not had enough coffee this morning?

You do realize OP that the Sovereign Host is a Polytheistic Religion - Multiple Gods!

The Silver Flame however is Monotheistic! - The Silver Flame!


EDIT: Oh and "Monotheistic Pantheon" is a Contradiction in terms anyway!

Deadlock
04-15-2013, 09:24 AM
huh?

could you be a bit more specific?

Which part don't you understand?

Only faith enhancement belongs to the Sovereign Host.

No other faiths available.

Don't think I can be more specific than that.

dejafu
04-15-2013, 09:07 PM
Unyielding Sovereignty is now a part of the Healing domain rather than specific to the Sovereign Host, it would seem. Might not be a bad idea to rename it to avoid confusion/pay a nod to Lore.

Khatzhas
04-15-2013, 09:21 PM
I'm not sure whether it is even possible to have a "monotheistic pantheon". :-P
The Silver flame isn't technically a "god" and it does accept the Sovereign Host - it just isn't part of them.
Even the Blood of Vol faith accepts the gods: it just hates them.

More on topic: I believe that choice of faith will be from bonus feats as part of the class, as opposed to enhancements. "Unyielding sovereignty" as a name works even for other faiths really since it doesn't automatically require a connection to the Host to make sense.

shadereaper33
04-16-2013, 08:37 PM
Which part don't you understand?

Only faith enhancement belongs to the Sovereign Host.

No other faiths available.

Don't think I can be more specific than that.

You are referring to unyielding sovereignty being part of the healing tree?

Given that the dev's have stated that they are in the process of working on the cleric domains, and a new cleric chooses a faith based feat at level 1, I would assume that a lot of the faith based enhancements we have on live are being converted over to feat based abilities. Granted, that is just my take based on the little information we have from the dev's about their intentions, but it makes sense to me, especially with the changes to monk stances from enhancements to feats.

Deadlock
04-17-2013, 04:31 AM
You are referring to unyielding sovereignty being part of the healing tree?

Given that the dev's have stated that they are in the process of working on the cleric domains, and a new cleric chooses a faith based feat at level 1, I would assume that a lot of the faith based enhancements we have on live are being converted over to feat based abilities. Granted, that is just my take based on the little information we have from the dev's about their intentions, but it makes sense to me, especially with the changes to monk stances from enhancements to feats.

Look at the enhancements where you have multiple selections available to you.

If other faiths were available, would it not be sensible to expect to see a generic enhancement like Advanced Faith that has a list of options specific to the faith? Albeit it only one of the options would be accessible because you don't meet the Faith Feat prerequisites for the others.

Would this not be consistent with the design of the rest of the other enhancement options?

Your assumption is that other faiths will be added in the future, and that this enhancement will be changed? I don't make the same assumption. If I had to make an assumption it would be that the number of faiths has been decimated and Unyielding Sovereignty is the only option. Or are you seriously suggesting that every faith will have it's own enhancement tree and that we're just not seeing them yet?

Do you understand the OP now or do I need to be more specific?

If the answer is that the other advanced faith options wouldn't fit into the Healing or Protection trees, then isn't that just another reason for the devs to go back to the drawing board on clerics? I think there is massive potential in the new enhancement system and think that with some adjustments in a number of places it can add to build diversity and add flavour without becoming overpowered. The outcry on most things at the moment is starting to get a bit annoying when what we need are constructive suggestions. But of the 4 classes that we currently have, cleric is the only one that I'm at a loss to see how it can be tweaked into something we want. The other classes just need some reduction in the AP cost, fewer constraints and a change to some of the prerequisites. But for clerics, I'm seeing the need for a complete overhaul.

For those who are saying that you can't have a monotheistic pantheon, that's pretty much the whole point of the thread, thanks for noticing :)

shadereaper33
04-17-2013, 05:28 AM
Look at the enhancements where you have multiple selections available to you.

If other faiths were available, would it not be sensible to expect to see a generic enhancement like Advanced Faith that has a list of options specific to the faith? Albeit it only one of the options would be accessible because you don't meet the Faith Feat prerequisites for the others.

Would this not be consistent with the design of the rest of the other enhancement options?

Your assumption is that other faiths will be added in the future, and that this enhancement will be changed? I don't make the same assumption. If I had to make an assumption it would be that the number of faiths has been decimated and Unyielding Sovereignty is the only option. Or are you seriously suggesting that every faith will have it's own enhancement tree and that we're just not seeing them yet?

Do you understand the OP now or do I need to be more specific?

If the answer is that the other advanced faith options wouldn't fit into the Healing or Protection trees, then isn't that just another reason for the devs to go back to the drawing board on clerics? I think there is massive potential in the new enhancement system and think that with some adjustments in a number of places it can add to build diversity and add flavour without becoming overpowered. The outcry on most things at the moment is starting to get a bit annoying when what we need are constructive suggestions. But of the 4 classes that we currently have, cleric is the only one that I'm at a loss to see how it can be tweaked into something we want. The other classes just need some reduction in the AP cost, fewer constraints and a change to some of the prerequisites. But for clerics, I'm seeing the need for a complete overhaul.

For those who are saying that you can't have a monotheistic pantheon, that's pretty much the whole point of the thread, thanks for noticing :)

You misunderstand. I do not assume that the other faiths will be added in as additional enhancement trees. I also do not see the healing tree as being somehow affiliated with the sovereign host, despite the presence of unyielding sovereignty in the tree. My statement was that I believe the dev's will be implemented the faith based enhancements that we have on live now, with the cleric domains as a feat based system. This would be similar to what they did with the monk stances. On live, the monk stances are enhancements that you spend AP on to improve. On lammania, they are feats that are autogranted to monks at levels 6,12,18 of monk, and available to others to take as a feat at levels 6,12,18 if they have at least 1 level of monk.

What I see happening is that, on character creation, clerics will pick 1 religion available to them based on race, as a feat. Then, at some pre-determined levels of cleric, they will be awarded more feats that improve upon their faith chosen at level 1. It will have absolutely nothing at all to do with enhancements. That is what I think will happen, based upon what I have seen in game and little dev communication we have heard.

Kilbar
04-17-2013, 05:51 AM
Monotheistic Pantheon... Well, depending on how you view saints and the various prayers made to them for intercession on one's behalf with the Almighty, one could argue that Catholicism qualifies as one of those.