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View Full Version : Cleric - Were you expecting a Melee and/or Offensive Caster Pre?



artistx
04-13-2013, 07:25 PM
That's what I was expecting too.. but instead we got Healing and the Protection Domain prestiges... and I know the reason why...

It's simple.. Cleric is F2P and I'm willing to bet that the 2 Favored Soul Prestiges are Melee and Offensive Caster type prestiges...

moops
04-13-2013, 07:36 PM
That's what I was expecting too.. but instead we got Healing and the Protection Domain prestiges... and I know the reason why...

It's simple.. Cleric is F2P and I'm willing to bet that the 2 Favored Soul Prestiges are Melee and Offensive Caster type prestiges...

I was thinking this as well--except that Pure FVs only has 3 lvl 6 spell slots ( My cleric on Live uses all 6 in end game, and even changes one of them out) and they have to wait 3 days or pay to change spells.

To me, FVS is more limited in being a caster, tho Turbine prob expects FVS to just use Blade Barrier and Implosion and not even think about using Undeath to Death or trying to slot Slay Living, not just destruction.

Maybe, Clerics will also have access to the FVS offensive casting ehnahncements.

shadereaper33
04-13-2013, 07:37 PM
You're right, I'm sure it has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that clerics are designed to be more defensive divines, and favored souls are more offensive divines. And, you know, they will never, ever release a third PrE tree for clerics that is more focused on offense.

PNellesen
04-13-2013, 07:40 PM
And, you know, they will never, ever release a third PrE tree for clerics that is more focused on offense.

I'll believe it when I see it.

artistx
04-13-2013, 07:42 PM
You're right, I'm sure it has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that clerics are designed to be more defensive divines, and favored souls are more offensive divines. And, you know, they will never, ever release a third PrE tree for clerics that is more focused on offense.

They could just allow clerics to use Pale Master as it's 3rd prestige pretty sure it fits lore wise......

nibel
04-13-2013, 07:57 PM
Or they added the two domines for the Host, and FvS will test out the Silver Flame dominions. And then on the second pass, the racial ones.

We can dream, right?

Pape_27
04-13-2013, 08:18 PM
. And, you know, they will never, ever release a third PrE tree for clerics that is more focused on offense.

given turbines track record of not finishing things I think its pretty safe to assume that they wont.

Karavek
04-13-2013, 08:22 PM
They could just allow clerics to use Pale Master as it's 3rd prestige pretty sure it fits lore wise......

i actually suggested that once, as well as making vampire one anyone could take at a certain lvl kind of as a universal option, thus allowing more players the optiong to choose negative energy and promot better class syngery options to work with the ever more popular PM being seen as the only option for non WF arcanes.

Got ignored or disagreed with because ofcourse then even if barbs and fighters became vamps they would probably only then complain about needing arcanes and divines to nanny them.

Aelonwy
04-14-2013, 01:50 PM
To Op: Yes, yes I was expecting a melee/defense tree and an offensive casting tree. I just brainstormed some ideas as to what I would have put in them in my thread.

However, as others above have said its unlikely that we will recieve those things for cleric now. This game has a long track record of starting a project and then leaving it unfinished for years, and completely ignoring player feedback when its not what they want to hear. Those two issues together do not bode well for my main character.

Just to be on the safe side I will be prepping her to TR into a Favored Soul. This way if the devs surprise me and fully flesh out the cleric enahncements I can stay a cleric and be happy. But if not I'll be fully prepped to TR into a Favored Soul which isn't my ideal choice but would be preferable to a cleric that can't do anything well but heal.

Deadlock
04-15-2013, 10:53 AM
You're right, I'm sure it has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that clerics are designed to be more defensive divines, and favored souls are more offensive divines. And, you know, they will never, ever release a third PrE tree for clerics that is more focused on offense.

Is this intended to be a sarcastic reply in support of what we currently have?

I thought we were trying to make observations on what is currently being proposed to help provide feedback in order for things to be improved before they go live.

I can't remember reading anywhere that we've to use wild speculation and conjecture to passify ourselves with anything that we consider to be a poor direction for the current enhancements, on the basis that it'll all be alright in some unforeseen future when additional stuff is added.

Clerics should have the option of being defensive or offensive. FVS should have the option of being defensive or offensive. I'm determined not to jump on the pigeon-hole bandwagon developing in other threads, but when it comes to the cleric class, from what I'm seeing in the alpha offering, this needs a pretty major rethink before we see the beta version.

Dagolar
04-15-2013, 09:31 PM
http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:War_Domain

Lets just assume they're translating current PrEs first and then will be adding more PrEs in the future, as per the path they indicated they'd take.


And it's absolutely ludicrous to base expectations on what -hasn't- been in the game thus far (in this case, offensive cleric pre, defensive/healing FvS PrE) rather than what HAS.

And while the rearrangement of some abilities is questionable, they did translate all the existing components- such as the Radiant Servant's light power bonuses; that is, the existing offensive cleric enhancements.

Flavilandile
04-16-2013, 01:47 AM
then will be adding more PrEs in the future

We have been promised a second PRE and RS III since PREs were introduced... See what we have been given.

That won't add any Tree to the Cleric in the foreseable future, we are stuck with two Trees.
One really s**king [protection] and one not so bad [Healing] if you love being a healbot and are willing to dish out the cost for it.

Kelendren
04-16-2013, 05:25 PM
That's what I was expecting too.. but instead we got Healing and the Protection Domain prestiges... and I know the reason why...

It's simple.. Cleric is F2P and I'm willing to bet that the 2 Favored Soul Prestiges are Melee and Offensive Caster type prestiges...

One of the new FvS PrE's will be Beacon of Hope, a healer.

Kelendren
04-16-2013, 05:27 PM
They could just allow clerics to use Pale Master as it's 3rd prestige pretty sure it fits lore wise......

Not really. Pale Master has always been Arcane and not Divine

Phidius
04-16-2013, 05:28 PM
Yes, I was hoping for an improvement to the Divine Might idea myself. Surprise!

artistx
04-16-2013, 06:02 PM
One of the new FvS PrE's will be Beacon of Hope, a healer.

Then I bet favored soul will get 3 prestige classes

saco
04-17-2013, 07:00 AM
Yes I was very much expecting a Battle Cleric or War Priest PrE that is typically available and more so since it was a promised PrE in the Christmas class PrE list. Didn't expect to get the short end of the stick just like in Neverwinter. Was gonna create a cleric when the enhancement was gonna pass and have a TR project but not any more. Hopefully the FvS and Paladin don't get the same abysmal treatment for their PrEs.

JOTMON
04-17-2013, 10:57 AM
1.Radiant Servant (Nannybot/Protector)
2.Battle Caster (Offensive casting Healer)
3.Warpriest (Melee Healer)

These were the 3 I was expecting to see with all prestiges up to the 3rd tier for levels (6/12/18).
so we would have options to be 2/3 radiant and 1/3 something else or whatever variation suited our desire.

Was hoping to also see a taste of the Divine Orders.. God Domains for that twist to flavor for alignment/racials.

We should have had enough AP to choose basic Cleric enhancements, branch fully 1 of 3 paths or any combination of the 3 paths to not exceed 1 full path.

So a Generalist Cleric could take 1/3 of each path and be balanced at all 3.. while a focussed path gives significant boosts to 1 path with some downsides to the other 2 paths. Similar to a Sorc Savant and the elemental lines..

There should be enough AP left after selecting the generic cleric needs and prestige path to take advantage of racial enhancments and pickup some nifty stuff as fillers. This would allow Multi-classers to be viable albeit a bit tighter on spend points and forsake some optional extra's.



No one said this would be an easy task.... but this is what I was expecting to see.

Antheal
04-17-2013, 07:35 PM
One of the new FvS PrE's will be Beacon of Hope, a healer.

It had better be. If Beacon of Hope doesn't out-heal the Cleric's Radiant Servant, it'll be the final nail in the coffin for my interest in DDO.

SealedInSong
04-17-2013, 08:42 PM
I was thinking this as well--except that Pure FVs only has 3 lvl 6 spell slots ( My cleric on Live uses all 6 in end game, and even changes one of them out) and they have to wait 3 days or pay to change spells.

To me, FVS is more limited in being a caster, tho Turbine prob expects FVS to just use Blade Barrier and Implosion and not even think about using Undeath to Death or trying to slot Slay Living, not just destruction.

Maybe, Clerics will also have access to the FVS offensive casting ehnahncements.

I love that ridiculous Evocation pigeon-holing they did at the Tier5. Classic devs.

SealedInSong
04-17-2013, 08:45 PM
You're right, I'm sure it has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that DDOClass are designed to be more PIGEONHOLED, and DDOClass are more PIGEONHOLED. And, you know, they will never, ever release a third PrE tree for DDOClass that is more focused on PIGEONHOLING.

FTFY

If whatever they release for clerics looks like the Evoker's Only Gentleman's Club they drafted in the Favored Soul leak, then... *slow applause*

Valakai
04-19-2013, 05:27 AM
I was expecting and hoping for Warpriest. But I guess hjiil bot is a clerics only function. *sigh*

HuneyMunster
04-29-2013, 05:12 PM
I was thinking this as well--except that Pure FVs only has 3 lvl 6 spell slots ( My cleric on Live uses all 6 in end game, and even changes one of them out) and they have to wait 3 days or pay to change spells.

To me, FVS is more limited in being a caster, tho Turbine prob expects FVS to just use Blade Barrier and Implosion and not even think about using Undeath to Death or trying to slot Slay Living, not just destruction.

Maybe, Clerics will also have access to the FVS offensive casting ehnahncements.


I love that ridiculous Evocation pigeon-holing they did at the Tier5. Classic devs.

Doesnt make sense to pigeon hole Divines as Evokers. With the Heal skill improving negative energy damage. Someone noted that it was an attempt to make inflict wounds more useful, but these are necro spells. The same with Slay Living and Destruction(though untyped damage). BUT... These spells also require spell pen check (along with offensive use of Cure/Heal which are Conjuration spells) and these now lose upto 3 spell pne (equivalent of 1 wiz and fvs past life feat) from enhancement bonus for Clerics and 1 spell pen reduction for Favored Souls when target is within Aura of Menace (2 when not).

I know its still early alpha and trees maybe amended or added before it goes live, buth they still need to be addresses. If you read class description on the the website you will see this description of Clerics "Divine spell casters and healers, Clerics have a broad range of spells at their command. They excel at curing ailments and healing allies but also have the ability to blast enemies with their divine power."

~Erzmeister
04-30-2013, 11:59 AM
I was expecting:
* 1x Healer-Tree
* 1x Caster-Tree
* 1x Meleeish-Tree
* true Domains to lessen the powergap between Cleric & FvS


What i got:
* 1x Healer-Tree
* 1x Nannybot-Joke
* 1x A Cat called Dog- Simply naming the Cleric's Prestigetrees "Domains" is a cheap trick, and an acknowledgement that they will never implement Domains, as "We already have domains, right here!" :mad:

~Hatsu
04-30-2013, 12:35 PM
Clerics are the best f2p class in DDO for healing a party.

The most popular content (raids) need at least two healing characters to heal the group. For this purpose, Clerics and Favored Souls are preferred. (but Druids and even Bards can heal,I know....)

Players need to be encouraged to make Cleric characters.

In order to get as many players as possible to play clerics, it is necessary to make them as versatile as possible in order to attract different types of players. (Some want to be casters, some would rather melee, etc.)

Domains provide the Cleric class with alot of it's versatility by giving Clerics extra abilities and adding to the Cleric's spell list.

DDO clerics need Domains of different types.



Does that make sense?

Khatzhas
04-30-2013, 01:00 PM
Clerics are the best f2p class in DDO for healing a party.

The most popular content (raids) need at least two healing characters to heal the group. For this purpose, Clerics and Favored Souls are preferred. (but Druids and even Bards can heal,I know....)

Players need to be encouraged to make Cleric characters.

In order to get as many players as possible to play clerics, it is necessary to make them as versatile as possible in order to attract different types of players. (Some want to be casters, some would rather melee, etc.)

Domains provide the Cleric class with alot of it's versatility by giving Clerics extra abilities and adding to the Cleric's spell list.

DDO clerics need Domains of different types.



Does that make sense? It does indeed make sense, however, there is an issue.
Both D&D 3.5 and DDO boosted the power and versatility of Clerics in order to make them more appealing and so ensure that people would play them. Likely because they are still based around standard D&D party makeup and capabilities.

What happened is that Clerics were now so powerful that they could actually marginalise some of the other classes: the ones that were reliant on them. In 3.5 you have the CoDzillas. In DDO the Divine soloists and BYOHers.

What seems to be in demand is a shuffle towards the style where "healers" are only needed for the really nasty fights, and everyone is just a DPS with self-healing. 4th ed D&D and Warcraft both have examples of non-healers having self-healing capabilities.

Regarding the cleric PrE trees, (Domains are Faith-based and so should be part of those feats, not the PrEs) the Radiant Servant is Healing/Light-based damage/Undead destroyer. It sounds like the demand for the other should be a melee/weapon damage based battle cleric, (not Warpriest), and if possible, a third based on DC-type casting: necromantic or excorcist perhaps.

~Hatsu
04-30-2013, 04:29 PM
What seems to be in demand is a shuffle towards the style where "healers" are only needed for the really nasty fights, and everyone is just a DPS with self-healing. 4th ed D&D and Warcraft both have examples of non-healers having self-healing capabilities.

I run pug groups quite a bit, and I have never seen this sort of behavior. I have, however, seen this sort of trend in groups of veterans who all know each other. But only there.

Khatzhas
04-30-2013, 09:16 PM
I run pug groups quite a bit, and I have never seen this sort of behavior. I have, however, seen this sort of trend in groups of veterans who all know each other. But only there. And on the forums. Far more on the forums that actually in the game itself.

I may have been a little snarky, but the difference between the attitudes of the forum-goers (who are generally the people commenting on the enhancements) and a lot of the rest of the playerbase over this subject is worth pointing out.