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View Full Version : A Melee Power Gamer's View of the Enhancements



Willan
04-13-2013, 05:28 PM
I will start this off by saying that the closest thing I play to casters is hybdrids, and that I run EE content the majority of the time I am logged in.

I will be using EllisDee37's wonderful posts to make formatting easy and quick on my part.

I have played every MMO that has come out since Everquest back in 1999 and have a lot of time invested in MMORPGs. I would love to see DDO's popularity expand outside of hardcore D&D fans. The enhancement panel update is a beautiful adaptation of DDO's original enhancements.

However, a few things can be learned from other games and applied here. In Rift the class trees are similar in style and set up with auto granted abilities along the bottom of the tree that are awarded when a number of points are spent within the top part of the tree. I see the similarity in DDO's new panel but it lacks in execution.

The first problem is that there is the ability to spend way more points within the tree than what is required to unlock the last auto granted ability. On top of that you have to actually spend points in the bottom "auto granted" abilities as well. The design decision to put abilities along the bottom that requires a minimum amount of points spent AND minimum class levels is a good one, it keeps multiclasses from picking up capstones that are supposed to be incentives for purists. However, the capstones for some of the trees are lacking (I will get into more detail in the following posts), and the design flaw of requiring AP spent on what is supposed to be auto granted based on class levels.

I suggest you add two additional tiers prior to the capstone at level 9 and level 15 to smooth out the progression and power of the class as a character progresses. This will also allow for a wider range of "break points" for multiclasses instead of all the 12/6/2 builds based around enhancements instead of actual class abilities.

To remedy these design flaws I urge you to make changes to total AP able to be spent in one tree to 41, and that you make all bottom "auto granted" abilities truly free if you meet the minimum class level and AP spent in tree.

For the spell power change I suggest that you make skills such as heal, repair, perform, and spellcraft grant 2 spell power per 1 point. I like the idea that you can focus on Int at creation to make dragon mark healing viable on Halfling characters that don't have access to devotion as a class line or for builds that want to get more use out of Rejuvenation Cocoon in epic level play.

I urge you to give Rangers 1 devotion per point spent in a class tree as an auto grant lvl 0 ability. They are a high skill point per level class and should be able to find the points to max heal to make up for the other 40 spell power lost if self healing is what they desire.

Paladins on the other hand are a 2 skill point at base class and will find it near impossible to find the extra points to spend on Int in creation since they already have to focus on Cha, Con (they are melee range as a general rule), Str, and sometimes Dex if they want to duel Wield. For them I suggest getting 2 positive spell power per point spent in a class tree. Paladins in P&P are much better healers than they are in DDO because of the inflated HP pools present. The extra devotion would do well to remedy their shortcomings. I strongly urge the development team to allow Lay on Hands to be affected by positive spell power with the release of the new enhancements. In P&P lay on hands is an iconic ability that defines the class because of its ability to fully heal an ally and put them back into the fight. In DDO it retains its limited number of uses and will heal maybe 1/3rd of someones HP bar in todays Epic content.

Willan
04-13-2013, 05:29 PM
TEMPEST

I really like theme behind tempest and with a few improvements I really look forward to playing it on live. With the introduction of Epic Levels I find the 10%/20% offhand attacks to no longer be neccesary. You need to implement the Superior Two Weapon Fighting feat as an epic feat to give dex based duel wielders something to strive for. On a dex based character it is impossible to pick up Overwhelming Critical. I feel that dex based duel wielders should be given the oppurtunity to pick up 20% additional offhand strike chance through a feat rather than only rangers.

Core Abilities

Shield of Whirling Steel
While you are dual wielding, you gain +2 Shield bonus to AC. This increases by +1 for every Tempest Core Ability you acquire.
*I would add 1 devotion per point spent in tree as well. If you added 2 more tiers to the core abilities this would increase to a total of 10 shield AC. Tempests might see more than 5% miss chance in EEs.

Tempest
You gain 10% chance to make off-hand attacks when dual wielding, you can use your Dexterity modifier to hit with light melee weapons. You now treat Scimitars as if they were light melee weapons.
*I really like the free Dex mod to hit with light weapons and the gain of scimitars as light weapons. With the addition of of Dex to hit/dmg as part of class trees I strongly suggest you give Weapon Finesse the same face lift. I would change the 10% offhand strike chance to 10% offhand doublestrike chance and add the superior two weapon fighting feat instead.

Graceful Death
While you are dual wielding, you can use your Dexterity modifier for damage with light melee weapons.
*With the addition of of Dex to hit/dmg as part of class trees I strongly suggest you give Weapon Finesse the same face lift.

Deflect Arrows
You gain the benefits of the Deflect Arrows feat while dual wielding, knocking aside one incoming projectile that would have struck you every 6 seconds. You also gain an additional 10% chance to make off-hand attacks when dual wielding.
*Not too powerful in auto grants with a free Deflect Arrows feat. I would change the 10% offhand strike chance to 10% offhand doublestrike chance and add the superior two weapon fighting feat instead.

Whirlwind
You gain +5% melee doublestrike chance when dual wielding.
*5% doublestrike for 18 Ranger levels feels a little lacking as a consolation prize for missing the capstone. I do not forsee many Rangers stopping at 18 when they can go 4 fighter and pick up Weapon Specialization and more damage through Kensei for minimal investment.

Dervish
You gain +2 Dexterity. You now have a +25% chance to doublestrike with your off-hand when dual wielding.
*Great Capstone and really fits the Tempest theme with 25% doublestrike with your offhand. I would suggest adding 2 Str as well to satisfy both Str based and Dex based Rangers.

Tempest: Tier 1

Item Defense
You have a 25/50/75% chance to negate potential item wear.
*Standard throw away points to progress to the next level of advancements. I have not run into equipmeant breaking while questing in years.

Improved Reaction
+1/2/3 Reflex Saves and an addition +1/2/3 to Saves against Traps.
*Great tier 1 enhancement. I was finding it hard to get up to 60 Reflex in EEs to make my evasion investment worthwhile.

Improved Defense
Your Shield of Whirling Steel grants +1/2/3 additional AC, and if you possess Deflect Arrows it can trigger once every 4/3/2 seconds.
*Good tier 1 enhancements, will see great returns in archer heavy content (Caught in the Web)

Whirling Blades
+1 to hit and damage when dual wielding.
*Great line for adding more damage per hit.

Awareness
+1/2/3 Balance, Jump, and Tumble. +2/4/6 AC while Tumbling.
*With a name like Awareness I would expect it to grant Search, Spot, and Listen. I would also be of much greater value then.


Tempest: Tier 2

Improved Parry
Gain +3/6/10 PRR when dual wielding.
*Great enhancement, PRR is sorely needed in todays EE content to keep your character from being 2 shotted.

Improved Dodge
+1/2/3% Dodge when wearing light or no armor.
*Great enhancement, dodge is something that all melee range characters strive for with the AC pass. Meaningful AC in EEs is only attainable by Stalwart Defenders and Defender of Siberys tanks with a shield.

Bleed Them Out
*This skill is the reason people hate clicky attacks. No noticeable DPS gain with only doing 21 damage a tick fully stacked and you feel like you have to hit it every 6 seconds or you are "ineffecient". I would suggest dropping the [W] modifiers from it and instead have the bleed be based off of your mainhand weapon total damage. Put it on a 20 second cooldown with a 30 second duration so it is a named mob only damage increaser. When fully stacked the damage on the bleed would look like 5(2.5[1d8] + 44) and would take roughly a minute and a half to reach critical mass.

Whirling Blades
+1 to hit and damage when dual wielding.
*Great line for adding more damage per hit.

Action Boost
Select one of the following:
- Haste Boost: +10/20/30% Action Boost bonus to attack speed for 20 seconds.
- Sprint Boost: +30/40/50% Action Boost bonus to movement speed for 20 seconds.
*I love getting haste boost without having to splash fighter levels or spend points in Legendary Dreadnaught. Sprint boost has been part of the Ranger class for as long as I can remember though. I would keep the AP cost at 6 for all 3 tiers and simply have it grant both boosts. They are mutually exclusive after all.

Tempest: Tier 3

Critical Accuracy
+1/2/3 to confirm Critical Hits.
*Complete waste for the 6 AP cost, takes 12 points to get 3 seeker. I would combine both enhancements for a total cost of 3 AP.

Improved Mobility
+1/2/3 MDB and Dodge cap while wearing light or no armor. -1/2/3 Armor Check Penalty in light armor.
*Great enhancement and is needed to cap out Dex on Dragonhide.

Whirling Blades
+1 to hit and damage when dual wielding.
*Great line for adding more damage per hit.

Ability Point
Select one of the following:
- Strength +1
- Dexterity +1
*I would add Con to the list as well, rangers are supposed to be heart woodsman afterall.


Tempest: Tier 4

Critical Damage
+1/2/3 critical hit damage (before multipliers).
*Complete waste for the 6 AP cost, takes 12 points to get 3 seeker. I would combine both enhancements for a total cost of 3 AP.

Elaborate Parry
Melee Dual Wielding Attack: Attacks an opponent. For the next 5/10/15 seconds, each time you damage an opponent you gain 2% dodge for 5 seconds. This effect can stack up to 10 times. (Cooldown: 2 minutes)
*I love the idea of the skill but it fails to be a point spender other than reaching improved evasion. It also doesn't function at all. I suggest changing this into a stance (think power attack or combat exerptise but for duel wielders). You would also need to code it to go above the 25 cap for it to see use in Epic play. I can honestly say that if this was a stance that went over the dodge cap I would use it exclusively outside of raids.

The Growing Storm
Melee Dual Wielding Attack: Attacks an opponent. For the next 5/10/15 seconds, each time you damage an opponent you gain +1 damage and -2 AC for 5 seconds. This effect can stack up to 10 times. (Cooldown: 1 minute)
*I really like this skill as is but would love to see it turned into a stance. It would be a great boon for characters to not feel like they "have" to take power attack if they are melees.

Whirling Blades
+1 to hit and damage when dual wielding.
*Great line for adding more damage per hit.

Ability Point
Select one of the following:
- Strength +1
- Dexterity +1
*I would add Con to the list as well, rangers are supposed to be heart woodsman afterall.


Tempest: Tier 5

Evasive Dance
Improves your Evasion ability so that on a failed Reflex saving throw against an attack that normally deals half damage on a successful save, you only take 85/70/50% damage.
*Having the ability to pick up improved evasion while in a deep or pure ranger build is a brilliant idea.

A Thousand Cuts
Melee Dual Wielding Attack: Deals +1/3/5[W] damage. You gain +30/60/90 Melee Doublestrike chance for 6 seconds. (Cooldown: 2 minutes.)
*Great idea with this ability and synergizes perfectly with Dance of Death for clearing out packs of trash. The one suggestion I would make with this skill is if it only lasts 6 seconds the cooldown should be 1 minute or make it last 15 seconds for a cooldown of 2 minutes. If it is meant to be a "burn phase" or burst ability for boss fights then make it a 5 minute cooldown with a 30 second duration.

Dance of Death
Melee Dual Wielding Attack: Deals +1/3/?[W] damage. Your basic attacks when dual wielding strike 2/3/? targets per swing instead of one for 6 seconds.
*Great trash killer ability. It is currently bugged to only allow for 1 rank because you can only put 1 rank in Whirling Blades.




ARCANE ARCHER

I really like the addition to extra effects on the arrow imbues. I feel that the AA should get spell like abilities they fire through arrows instead of the extra arrow imbues that will not be used.

Core Abilities

Arcane Archer
Any bow you equip gains a +1 Enhancement bonus for each Arcane Archer core ability you possess. (This does not stack with the bow's existing Enhancement bonus.) All bows are treated as Implements in your hands.
*The implement bonus to spell power for equipping a bow is a great idea. The +1 enhancement bonus to bows is worthless and should be changed to 1% extra bow shot per level to be relevant. I would also add 1 universal spell power per point invested if you move the tree towards casting spells through arrows.

Morphic Arrows
Arcane Archer Secondary Imbue Toggle: Your arrows deal bludgeoning, piercing and slashing damage. (Cost: 20 spell points. Cooldown: 10 seconds.)
*Great enhancement.

Metalline Arrows
Arcane Archer Secondary Imbue Toggle: Your arrows bypass all metallic damage reduction. (Cost: 20 spell points. Cooldown: 10 seconds.)
*Great enhancement.

Aligned Arrows
Arcane Archer Secondary Imbue Toggle: Your arrows bypass all alignment based damage reduction. (Cost: 20 spell points. Cooldown: 10 seconds.)
*Great enhancement

Shadow Arrows
Arcane Archer Secondary Imbue Toggle: +5% Extra Shot chance any time you fire an arrow. (Cost: 20 spell points. Cooldown: 10 seconds.)
Great enhancement

Master of Imbuement
You gain +2 Dexterity and +10% Extra Shot chance (Repeating crossbows have a reduced chance to produce Extra Shots). When you leave a primary Arcane Archer Imbue stance, the bonus granted by the stance lingers for 30 seconds before being removed.
*I would add Int and Wisdom to the capstone because not all AAs will be Dex based.


Arcane Archer: Tier 1

Conjure Arrows
Activate to create a stack of returning +1 arrows. These arrows are destroyed when you log out for an extended period of time.
*One of the best tier 1 enhancements in the game. Period. I highly suggest you add one for bolts for artis.

True Strike
Ranged Archery Attack: Perform a ranged attack with +20 to hit. You receive a +0/2/4 Insight bonus to hit for 0/6/12 seconds.
*This is a skill that is worthless and makes people hate clicky attacks. It has no noticeable impact.

Energy of the Wild
+30/60/100 maximum spell points. At tier 3 receive Magical Training: Increase your maximum spell points by 80, and grants Echoes of Power while below 12 spell points.
*Great enhancement with the addition of Magical Training

Elemental Arrows
Select one of the following elemental Arcane Archer Imbue Toggles: (20 spell points, 10 second cooldown)
- Corrosive Arrows: +1d6 acid damage
- Flaming Arrows: +1d6 fire damage
- Frost Arrows: +1d6 cold damage
- Shock Arrows: +1d6 electric damage
*I like the imbues now that Arrow of Slaying was changed to a clicky. With the added affects with the top of the line they will be used and swapped for different scenarios.

Awareness
+1/2/3 Listen, Search, Spot, and to hit.
*This skill has the same name as the Tempest enhancement but has the usefull and correct skill additions. Please mirror this enhancement across the Ranger trees.


Arcane Archer: Tier 2

Dispelling Shot
Ranged Archery Attack: Performs a ranged attack that deals +1/2/3[W] damage and dispels 1/2/3 beneficial effect(s) from your target.
*Great idea and if it has no DC it will actually be used. I suggest you make it able to dispell the Sacrifice buff from Mistress of Agonies to see the biggest praise. I would also like to see it dispell harmful effects if used on an ally.

Force Arrows
Arcane Archer Imbue Toggles: You imbue your arrows with magical force. Your arrows gain On Hit: +1d4/6/6 force damage and the Ghost Touch ability. At tier 3 gain On Critical: 1d10 to 3d10 force damage based on critical multiplier. (20 spell points, 10 second cooldown)
*I would add on to this skill a Disintigration effect on a natural 20 with Improved Elemental Arrows enhancement. It would fit thematically and give the people that don't like clicky attacks their Slayer Arrows back.

Inferno Shot
Ranged Archery Attack: Performs a ranged attack with +0/1/2[W] damage. On Hit: Target gains 1 stack of Inferno (Target takes 1d6 fire damage every 2 second for 6 seconds. This effect can stack 20 times, and loses one stack on expiration.).
*This is skill is the reason people hate clicky attacks. Having to hit an attack every 3 seconds for an unnoticeably gain and it costs 6 SP. I would rewrite the enhancement to the top of the tree and have it fire off a Delayed Blast Fireball centered on all targets hit (like fiery detonation). The enhancement would look like this :
Ranged Archery Attack: Perform a ranged attack. On Hit: A ball of flame erupts from your target(s) simulating the Delayed Blast Fireball spell, causing an explosion of flame that deals 1d3+3 points of fire damage per character level up to a maximum damage of 25d3+75 at character level 25 to all targets around it.
Have the damage be modified by spell power and feats such as maximize and empower and able to crit. This would give Elven Wizards a viable reason to go AA. Make it a multi enhancement selector for DC to be based off of Wis or Dex or Int to suite as many AA builds as possible. Make the DC 10 + Character Level + Int/Dex/Wisdom. This will ensure that the skill sees use in Epic Play.

Elemental Arrows
Select a second elemental Arcane Archer Imbue Toggle. (See tier 1)
*I like the imbues now that Arrow of Slaying was changed to a clicky. With the added affects with the top of the line they will be used and swapped for different scenarios.

Action Boost
Select one of the following:
- Attack Boost: +4/6/8 Action Boost bonus to hit for 20 seconds.
- Energy Resist Boost: +5/10/15 Action Boost bonus to Energy Resistance for 20 seconds.
*I would change the two boosts available to Sprint and Spell Power and have it grant both.

Arcane Archer: Tier 3

Shattermantle Shot
Ranged Archery Attack: Perform a ranged attack with +1/2/3[W] damage. On Hit: Target gains 1/2/3 stack(s) of Reduced Spell Resistance (-1 Spell Resistance. This effect can stack 100 times.) On Vorpal Hit: Shattermantle (-100 Spell Resistance for 10 seconds. Will DC 10/14/18 + Half Ranger Level + Wisdom Modifier negates.)
*Great Skill for helping the spell casters in your group against Drow

Terror Arrows
Arcane Archer Imbue Toggle: You imbue your arrows with negative energy. On Hit: Target is feared. (Will DC 17/21/25 negates.) On Vorpal: Target is subject to a Phantasmal Killer effect.
*Fearing arrows are the worst thing that has been designed and no uses them past their first couple months of playing DDO. I suggest changing this imbue into a clicky spell similar to my fireball suggestion.
Ranged Archery Attack: Perform a ranged attack. On Hit: Your target(s) are subjected to their greatest fears simulating the Phantasmal Killer spell. The target first gets a Will save to recognize the image as unreal to disbelieve the spell and suffer no ill effects. If that save fails, the phantasm touches the subject, and the subject must succeed on a Fortitude save or die from fear. Even if the Fortitude save is successful, the subject takes 1d3+1 points of bane damage per character level.
Make it a multi enhancement selector for DC to be based off of Wis or Dex or Int to suite as many AA builds as possible. Make the DC 10 + Character Level + Int/Dex/Wisdom. This will ensure that the skill sees use in Epic Play.


Soul Magic
Every time you strike an enemy with your bow, you gain 1 temporary spell point. This effect can stack up to 10 times.
*Great idea but falls short. With an increased use of an AAs SP through clicky attacks this will not be enough to mitigate the extreme drain. If you take my suggestions by having spells fired through bow shots it certainly will not. I would change this to be 1 permanent SP gained back per arrow. This would allow for a significant mana recharge through manyshotting groups of enemies and would be a great asset for pure 20 fighter AAs

Elemental Arrows
Select a third elemental Arcane Archer Imbue Toggle. (See tier 1)
*I like the imbues now that Arrow of Slaying was changed to a clicky. With the added affects with the top of the line they will be used and swapped for different scenarios.

Ability Point
Select one of the following:
- Dexterity +1
- Wisdom +1
*I would add Int to the list

Arcane Archer: Tier 4

Banishing Arrows
Arcane Archer Imbue Toggle: Your arrows gain On Vorpal: Banish an extraplanar creature back to its home plane. Powerful creatures may resist the vorpal effect until sufficiently damaged but will take 100 points of damage on a confirmed vorpal strike instead of being destroyed.
*The AA tree is too bloated with imbue toggles and this would make a great candidate for a clicky arrow attack based off the dismissal spell.
Ranged Archery Attack: Perform a ranged attack. On Hit: Your target(s) are subjected to the Dismissal spell. Instantly forces an extraplanar enemy back to its proper plane of existence. A successful Will save negates this effect. (DC=10 + Character Level + Int/Wis/Dex modifer - creature's Hit Die).
Make it a multi enhancement selector for DC to be based off of Wis or Dex or Int to suite as many AA builds as possible. Make the DC 10 + Character Level + Int/Dex/Wisdom. This will ensure that the skill sees use in Epic Play.

Paralyzing Arrows
Arcane Archer Imbue Toggle: Youimbue your arrows with paralyzing force. On Hit: Target is paralyzed. (Will DC 18/22/26 negates.)
*The AA tree is too bloated with imbue toggles and this would make a great candidate for a clicky arrow attack based off the hold monster spell.
Ranged Archery Attack: Perform a ranged attack. On Hit: Your target(s) are subjected to Hold Monster. This spell functions like Hold Person, except that it affects any living creature that fails its Will save. The enemy is aware, but it can take no actions for a maximum of 6 seconds per character level. The enemy may attempt to make a new Will save every 3 seconds
Make it a multi enhancement selector for DC to be based off of Wis or Dex or Int to suite as many AA builds as possible. Make the DC 10 + Character Level + Int/Dex/Wisdom. This will ensure that the skill sees use in Epic Play.

Smiting Arrows
Arcane Archer Imbue Toggle: Your arrows gain On Vorpal: Destroy a construct. Powerful constructs may resist the vorpal effect until sufficiently damaged but will take 100 points of damage on a confirmed vorpal strike instead of being destroyed.
*The AA tree is too bloated with imbue toggles. By adding the Disintigration effect on Vorpal to force arrows via the Imbue Elemental Arrows enhancement you eliminate the need for this enhancement completely.

Elemental Arrows
Select the fourth (final) elemental Arcane Archer Imbue Toggle. (See tier 1)
*I like the imbues now that Arrow of Slaying was changed to a clicky. With the added affects with the top of the line they will be used and swapped for different scenarios.

Ability Point
Select one of the following:
- Dexterity +1
- Wisdom +1
*I would add Int to the list

Arcane Archer: Tier 5

Moonbow
While wielding a bow, once every 30 seconds you gain 20 temporary spell points for 10 seconds.
*Good mitigation of SP expenditure but I do not think this belongs at the top of the tree. Personally I would like to see tiered gating removed completely.

Arrow of Slaying
Ranged Archery Attack: Performs a ranged attack with +250 damage. (This damage can be multiplied by critical hits.) (Cost: 20 spell points. Cooldown: 20 seconds.)
*I would move this ability to the top Deepwood Sniper with no manacost and name it Sniper shot. If you are stealthed make it auto critical. The AA tree should be focused on casting spells through arrows and less about Raw Damage.

Improved Elemental Arrows
Your Elemental Arrow Imbues gain On Critical: 1d10 to 3d10 elemental damage based on critical multiplier, and an additional effect:
- Corrosive Arrows gain Improved Destruction (-2 AC and -2% fort for 20 seconds, stacks up to 4 times)
- Flaming Arrows gain On Critical: Burning (1d6 fire damage every 2 seconds for 6 seconds, stacks up to 20 times)
- Frost Arrows gain On Critical: Lethargy (-1 saves, non-bosses move and attack 5% slower, stacks up to 5 times.)
- Shock Arrows gain On Critical: Vulnerable (2% more damage for 6 seconds, stacks up to 10 times.)
*Add Force arrows to the list and give it disintigration effect on Vorpal to mimick old slayer arrows.

Runebow
Bows you wield gain an additional +2 Enhancement bonus. This is considered a Magic weapon effect.
*A simple +2 damage does not belong at the top of the tree and if you take the suggestion of adding spells to arrow clickys is completely unneeded.




DEEPWOOD STALKER

I really like the blend of sneak attack with melee and range to be a perfect hybrid tree where you don't have to be specialized one way or another.

Core Abilities

Far Shot
You gain +1 Sneak Attack Die. Your Point Blank Shot and Ranged Sneak Attack range is increased by 5 meters for each Deepwood Stalker core ability you possess.
*I like the direction you are going with the deepwood stalker tree. More raw damage per hit as opposed to more spell like effects. I would add 1 devotion per point spent in tree as well.

Sneak Attack
+1 Sneak Attack Die.
*Good low level auto grant that sees use for range and melee.

Called Shot
Select one of the following:
- Exposing Strike: Melee Attack: +2[W], +4 to hit, +1 crit range, +1 multiplier. On damage: Target vulnerable to sneak attack for 4 seconds.
- Sniper Shot: Ranged Attack: +2[W], +4 to hit, +2 crit range, +2 multiplier. On damage: Target vulnerable to sneak attack for 4 seconds.
*Good idea but poor execution. Having to hit a button once every 6 seconds is annoying at best and improved deception already mimicks the effect. I would change the name to Exposing Shot and have the debuff be 30 second duration with the same cooldown. This way you won't have to use the clicky untill the duration wears off or you switch targets.

Sneak Attack
+1 Sneak Attack Die.
*Good auto grant for both melee and range

Mark of the Hunted
Activate: Expend a use of Animal Empathy. Your currently selected enemy receives -10% fort, -10 AC, -10 Spell Resistance, and suffers a -4 penalty to all ability score for 3 minutes.
*As long as this doesn't have a save it will definately see use in raids. Good idea with using animal empathy triggers since I doubt anyone even hotbars the ability

Horizon Shot
You gain +2 Dexterity and +1 Sneak Attack Die. You are always considered to be in Point Blank Shot and Ranged Sneak Attack range.
*This is what all capstones should strive to be as far as meshing with a tree goes. It fits with the tree increasing damage overall and making all sneak attack abilities work regardless of range. The one addition I would like to see is 4 sneak attack instead of just 1 to give a larger boost for the melee or half and half deepwood stalkers.


Deepwood Stalker: Tier 1

Favored Defense
Select one of the following:
- Favored Protection: You gain +2/4/6 AC when attacked by a Favored Enemy.
- Favored Resistance: You gain +1/2/3 to Saving Throws against spells or effects from a Favored Enemy.
*AP cost is too high but overall good for a low tier

Stealthy
+1/2/3 to Hide and Move Silently, and +0/0/1 Sneak Attack die.
*Very usefull for the context of what this tree is trying to accomplish

Increased Empathy
+1/2/3 Diplomacy and Animal Empathy uses per rest.
*I would drop the diplomacy addition and make it ad 2/3/4 animal empathy uses

Versatile Empathy
Your Wild Empathy now also pacifies Vermin/Vermin and Elementals.
*This might be usefull but with the way empathy DC is calculated and the way mobs saves are in elite content or even normal this is a useless enhancement.

Tendon Cut
Melee Attack: Deals +0.5/1.0/1.5[W] damage. On Sneak Attack: Slow your enemy's movement by 50% for 10 seconds.
*Remove the sneak attack requirement for the movement slow. This would be a great ability to use to get some range on an enemy that comes running up if so.


Deepwood Stalker: Tier 2

Favored Defense
Select the second Favored Defense. (See tier 1)
*AP cost is too high but otherwise not bad

Faster Sneaking
+20/35/50% movement speed while sneaking.
*Great addition to the sneaking ranger tree

Empathic Healing
SLA: You expend a use of Animal Empathy to produce a Lesser Vigor/Mass Lesser Vigor effect.
*Great Idea and would see use in a raid or small group situation where your healer might not be alive

Improved Weapon Finesse
You can use your Dexterity Modifier for damage when wielding melee weapons with which you can use your Dexterity modifier to hit.
*I would much rather see this implemented into the Finesse feat itself. Dex based melee characters will be halfling, elf, or a tempest as it stands now.

Action Boost
Select one of the following:
- Damage Boost: +10/20/30% Action Boost bonus to weapon damage for 20 seconds.
- Skills Boost: +2/4/6 Action Boost bonus to all skills for 20 seconds.
*I would change this to grant both Damage and Sprint Boost for 6 AP since they cannot be used at the same time anyway.


Deepwood Stalker: Tier 3

Favored Accuracy
You gain +1/2/3 to hit when attacked a Favored Enemy.
*AP Cost is too high for a small gain and will only be taken for Favored Damage


Thrill of the Hunt
You gain +1/2/3 damage for 6 seconds after damaging an opponent beneath 25/25/35% health.
*This is a great idea but lacks impact. I would leave it at 1 Damage at all ranks and have it stacks 3/6/9 times for 6 seconds. Refreshing the duration on each attack.

Aimed Shot
Ranged Attack: Performs a ranged attack with +10 to hit and +1 Critical Damage Multiplier. On Damage: If you are in Archer's Focus stance and Manyshot is not active, gain three stacks of Archer's Focus.
*I like the name of the skill but it also lacks impact. Make the skill require you to be standing still and have a slight activation time. I would also up its damage significantly and have it unusable with many shot.
Ranged Attack: Performs a ranged attack with +10 to critical threat range and +7 Critical Damage Multiplier. On Damage: If you are in Archer's Focus stance gain max stacks of Archer's Focus. Unusable while Manyshot is active.

Ability Point
Select one of the following:
- Dexterity +1
- Wisdom +1
*I would add Str to the list


Deepwood Stalker: Tier 4

Favored Damage
You deal +1/2/3 damage when attacking a Favored Enemy.
*AP cost is too high but otherwise a Ranger enhancement favorite.

Killer
When you kill a target, you gain 5% Morale bonus to Melee Doublestrike and Extra Shot Chance for 15 seconds. Weak enemies will not always produce this effect. The Killer buff can stack up to 2/3/4 times. (Repeating Crossbows have a reduced chance to produce Extra Shots.)
*With how hard it is to get the last hit to kill a monster let alone with a bow this enhancement should have a longer duration of 30 seconds similar to black dragon armor.

Hunter's Mercy
Select a melee or ranged attack: Deal +3[W] damage. On Sneak Attack: If target is below 20% health, deal 500 damage.
- Merciful Strike: Melee Attack
- Merciful Shot: Ranged Attack
*Great idea but poor implementation. I suggest you make a few changes to the enhancement. First, give it +2 Crit Multiplier. Second, have it deal an extra 100 base damage for melee and 250 base damage for ranged if under 20% health. And lastly if it is considered a sneak attack have it auto crit.

Leg Shot
Ranged Attack: On Damage, slow your enemy's movement by 50% for 10 seconds.
*Good enhancement for a ranged character

Ability Point
Select one of the following:
- Dexterity +1
- Wisdom +1
*I would add Str to the list


Deepwood Stalker: Tier 5

Extra Favored Enemy
You gain an additional Favored Enemy from a list of living creatures commonly found in the woods. (This increases the damage bonus you receive against all favored enemies you possess by 2.) Choices are Animal, Dragon, Dwarf, Elf, Giant, Gnoll, Goblinoid, Halfling, Human, Magical Beast, Monstrous Humanoid, Orc, Plant, Reptilian, Vermin
*This is a good addition for the Favored Enemy Ranger tree

Heavy Draw
Toggle: When Heavy Draw is active, you deal +5 damage but have -5 to attack rolls with archery and thrown attacks. Effects that modify the attack penalty and damage bonus of Power Attack feat also modify this ability (but other effects related to Power Attack do not). This ability has no effect when using a crossbow.
*This is another well thought out enhancement. I don't agree that 5 damage a hit belongs at the top of the tree

Head Shot
Ranged Attack: Perform a ranged attack that is automatically considered a critical threat. On Vorpal: 500 damage. (Cooldown: 1 minute.)
*I would change this ability to be the Ranged version of the Rogue assassinate. Have the DC be 10 + character level + Dex Mod for an instant kill effect.

Improved Archer's Focus
Your Archer's Focus can now stack up to 25 times instead of 15.
*Good enhancement gives 10% more damage at the top of the tree passively.

Willan
04-13-2013, 05:30 PM
KENSEI

I really like the ability to stay centered while using your favored weapon, this opens up use of the Grandmaster of Flowers epic destiny to more than just monk splashes. With the addition of taking the higher monk forms as feats I see a strong paring of this tree with an 18/2 Fighter/Monk multiclass. I would like to see the ability to use Wis or Dex as your attack and damage modifier as part of this PrE trees theme. The Kensei tree is also lacking in fun, impactful click abilities that Tempest currently enjoys and would like to see some added to the tree.

*One thing I find lacking for the kensei tree is more tactical feat additions. Please add an enhancement that improves trip further as well as one for stunning blow.
Sweeping Blow Multiple Enhancement Selector
Melee Focus Attack: Perform an attack with +1[W] to sweep your opponent off their feet. On Damage: Target is rendered helpless for 10 seconds (Balance DC 10 + Fighter Level + Wisdom/Dexterity/Strength Modifier Negates). Shares a Cooldown with Trip, Improved Trip.
AP Cost: 3
Requires: Improved Trip
*The key point of this enhancement would be to increase trips usefullness by making targets considered helpess instead of just prone and to give multiple avenues of increasing its DC based off of what you prioritized with your character.

Improved Stunning Blow Multiple Enhancement Selector
Melee Focus Attack: Perform an attack with +1/2/4[W] to stun your opponent. On Damage: Target is stunned for 10 seconds (Fort DC 10 + Fighter level + Wisdom/Dexterity/Strength Modifier Negates. Shares a Cooldown with Stunning Blow. Cost: 10 Ki (Cooldown: 15/10/6 seconds)
AP Cost: 2 per rank
Requires: Stunning Blow
*The thought process behind this enhancement would be to increase a weaponized monk or centered kenseis utility and to reward character specialization.

Core Abilities

Weapon Mastery
Choose one of the following as your Kensei focus. You gain +1 to hit with these weapons, and many Kensei abilities require that you use one of these weapons. (These are labaled as "Focus" abilities.) Exotic weapons are added by taking the Tier 1 Exotic Weapon Mastery enhancement. (Dwarves using Dwarven Axes do not need to take that enhancement.)
- Archery: Longbow, Shortbow
- Axes: Battleaxe, Greataxe, Handaxe, Throwing Axe, Dwarven Axe
- Crossbows: Heavy Crossbow, Light Crossbow, Great Crossbow, Repeating Crossbows
- Druidic Weapons: Club, Dagger, Dart, Quarterstaff, Scimitar, Sickle, Unarmed combat
- Heavy Blades: Falchion, Greatsword, Longsword, Scimitar, Bastard Sword, Khopesh
- Light Blades Dagger, Kukri, Rapier, Shortsword, Throwing Dagger
- Maces and Clubs: Club, Light Mace, Heavy Mace, Greatclub, Morningstar, Quarterstaff
- Martial Art Kama, Quarterstaff, Shuriken, Unarmed combat
- Picks and Hammers: Light Pick, Heavy pick, Light Hammer, Warhammer, Maul, Throwing Hammer
*Good tier 1 set up for the rest of the tree. As a kensei you are lacking on tactical DC increases other than the +3 from the tree. I would add +1 tactical DC for every Kensei core ability you possess.

Spiritual Bond
When you have a weapon equipped in your main hand that is part of your Focus, it gains On Vorpal: If this weapon has fewer stacks of Battle Meditation than the number of Kensei Core Abilities you possess, it gains one stack of Battle Meditation: This weapon gains a +1 Insight bonus to Enhancement bonus for 20 seconds. This stacks up to 10 times. On tier expiration, 1 stack of Meditative Focus is removed at a time.
*I really like the battle meditation skill itself but I would keep it as an active skill you use while preparing for "the final showdown". There is also discrepency between the duration of the skill and whats written here and in the skills description itself. I would change this to allow the use of Dex or Wisdom in determining your attack bonus with your favored weapon equiped. I would then add at lvl 9 Fighter a core ability to use Wisdom or Dex as your damage modifier or just blend it into fighter lvl 6.

Strike With No Thought
When you have a melee weapon equipped in your main hand that is part of your FOcus, you gain 1% Doublestrike. Ranged weapons instead have a 1% chance to fire an extra projectile. Each additional Innate Ability you acquire from this tree increases this bonus by 1%.
*Nice small passive boost to DPS

Power Surge
Action Boost: You gain a +8 Psionic bonus to Strength for 60 seconds. If you possess the ability to generate Ki, you
gain On Hit: +2 Ki. (Cooldown: 1 minute)
*I would add +8 Dex and +8 Wisdom to the boost to fit the theme of a transcendent fighter.

One Cut
Focus Action Boost: Your currently equipped weapons that are part of your Focus gain the Vorpal ability for 60 seconds. (Cooldown: 1 minute)
*For requiring fighter level 18 this clicky is completely underwhelming. Make it a passive "always on" ability. I would add "if you posses a Ki bar, you now have 50 additional Ki". This will help the 18/2 splits and give pure fighters more Ki to play with if they choose to be in Grandmaster or Flowers.

Alacrity
You gain +10% melee double strike with melee weapons and +10% chance to fire an extra projectile with ranged and thrown weapons. (Repeating Crossbows have a reduced chance to produce extra shots.)
*Good capstone not too strong.


Kensei: Tier 1

Weapon Group Specialization
You gain +1 to hit and damage with your selected Weapon Group.
*Good passive boost to damage.

Exotic Weapon Mastery
Adds exotic weapons to your Kensei Focus. Axes: Adds dwarven axes if you are not a dwarf. (This has no effect if you are a dwarf.) Crossbows: Adds great crossbows, heavy repeating crossbows, and light repeating crossbows. Heavy Blades: Adds bastard swords and khopesh.
*I like the idea of allowing exotics to be used while centered.

Attack Boost
Activate to gain a +4/6/8 Action Boost bonus to hit for 20 seconds. (Cooldown: 30 seconds)
*I would add Haste Boost to the list and have it grant both.

Reed in the Wind
Focus Melee Attack: Deals +1[W] damage. If you successfully damage your target you gain +3/6/9% insight bonus to Dodge for 6 seconds. (Cooldown: 30 seconds)
*Doesn't currently function. If you have the dodge bonus go over the cap it will be useful in epic play otherwise I don't see many people using this if they are already focusing on dodge.

Kensei: Tier 2

Tactics
+1/2/3 to the DC's of your Tactical abilities.
*Good increase of DC's but with a lack of any other DC increases in Kensei this falls short. I suggest adding +1 DC per kensei core ability you posses as well.

Weapon Group Specialization
You gain +1 to hit and damage with with one handed weapons and bows in your chosen group, and +1 to hit and +2 damage with two handed weapons in your chosen group.
*good passive damage booster

Improved Dodge
+1/2/3% Dodge when wearing light or no armor.
*Very nice enhancement, with how hard it is to get meaningful AC in Elite quests this is a very nice addition for mitigation

Weapon Meditation
Focus Meditate: You gain the ability to Meditate as if you were a monk, even if you are uncentered. While Meditating, every 6 seconds, if you have a weapon equipped in your main hand that is part of your Focus, it gains a stack of Meditative Focus: This weapon gains +1 Insight bonus to Enhancement bonus for 10 seconds. This stacks up to 10 times. On timer expiration, 1 stack of Meditative Focus is removed at a time.
*This is a well thought out skill that fits the theme of the transcedent fighter. I would add offhand weapon to the bonus aswell since the Kensei tree doesn't favor a certain fighting style.

Ascetic Training
Choose one of the following:
- Agility: +1/2/3 Concentration, Reflex Saves, and Dodge cap
- Conditioning: +1/2/3 Concentration and Fortitude Saves, +5/10/15 HP
- Contemplation: +1/2/3 Concentration and Will Saves
*I really like the choices presented. The HPs need to be increased to 10/20/30 to see anyone pick it over the Reflex saves. Add 10/20/30 Maximum Ki to Contemplation.

Kensei: Tier 3

Critical Accuracy
*Completely useless enhancement, 12 AP combined for 3 seeker is much too high. I suggest changing it to 3 AP spent for both confirmation and critical damage.

Weapon Group Specialization
You gain +1 to hit and damage with your selected Weapon Group.
*Nice passive boost to damage

Improved Mobility
+1/2/3 MDB and Dodge cap while wearing light or no armor. -1/2/3 Armor Check Penalty in light armor.
*Remove the wording of "no armor". There is no MDB or dodge cap for it anyway.

Shattering Strike
Choose either Ranged or Melee. Focus Attack: Deals +1/2/3[W] damage. On Damage: Targets loses 15% fortification for 10 seconds (Fort DC 10 + Half Fighter Level + Wisdom Modifier Negates).
*One of only 2 clicky tactical feats in Kensei and it has a DC that will make sure it is never used. The DC needs to be 10 + Fighter level + STAT modifier and state wether or not sundering bonuses affect the DC. Please make it a multi enhancement selector with DC based off of Str or Dex or Wis.

Ability Point
Select one of the following:
- Strength +1
- Dexterity +1
- Wisdom +1
*Perfect

Kensei: Tier 4

Critical Damage
+1/2/3 critical hit damage (before weapon multipliers)
*Completely useless enhancement, 12 AP combined for 3 seeker is much too high. I suggest changing it to 3 AP spent for both confirmation and critical damage.

Weapon Group Specialization
You gain +1 to hit and damage with with one handed weapons and bows in your chosen group, and +1 to hit and +2 damage with two handed weapons in your chosen group.
*Good passive damage increase

Ability Point
Select one of the following:
- Strength +1
- Dexterity +1
- Wisdom +1
*Perfect


Kensei: Tier 5

A Good Death
Choose either Ranged or Melee. Focus Attack: Perform an attack with +1 Critical Damage Multiplier. On Damage: If the target is below 20% health, deal 500 damage. (Cooldown: 30 seconds)
*Good thought but poor execution. For a clicky attack with a long cooldown and %health requirement it lacks impact. Please make it so that "if target is below 35% health, deals +100 base damage for one handed weapons and +250 base damage for two handed weapons." Have the ability trigger to offhand attacks and doublestrike attacks as well.

Keen Edge
You gain a +1 Competence bonus to Critical Threat Range with your Focus weapons.
*Perfect addition of passive damage

One With the Blade
Your melee Focus weapons are considered Centering. This ability does not affect ranged weapons.
*I really like the idea of being centered with your weapon of choice.

Deadly Strike
Choose either Ranged or Melee. Focus Attack: Expend a use of Action Boost: Attack to perform an attack that is automatically considered a critical threat. On Vorpal: 500 damage. (Cooldown: 30 seconds)
*This skill is one of the reasons people hate clicky attacks. It had a limited number of uses per rest with a long cooldown and almost no impact. Not something I would expect to be at the top of the melee damage tree. Please add 1 critical multiplier and +50 base damage for one handed weapons and +100 base damage for two handed weapons. Have the ability trigger to offhand attacks and doublestrike attacks as well.

*One thing I find lacking for the kensei tree is more tactical feat additions. Please add an enhancement that improves trip further as well as one for stunning blow.
Sweeping Blow Multiple Enhancement Selector
Melee Focus Attack: Perform an attack with +1[W] to sweep your opponent off their feet. On Damage: Target is rendered helpless for 10 seconds (Balance DC 10 + Fighter Level + Wisdom/Dexterity/Strength Modifier Negates). Shares a Cooldown with Trip, Improved Trip.
AP Cost: 3
Requires: Improved Trip
*The key point of this enhancement would be to increase trips usefullness by making targets considered helpess instead of just prone and to give multiple avenues of increasing its DC based off of what you prioritized with your character.

Improved Stunning Blow Multiple Enhancement Selector
Melee Focus Attack: Perform an attack with +1/2/4[W] to stun your opponent. On Damage: Target is stunned for 10 seconds (Fort DC 10 + Fighter level + Wisdom/Dexterity/Strength Modifier Negates. Shares a Cooldown with Stunning Blow. Cost: 10 Ki (Cooldown: 15/10/6 seconds)
AP Cost: 2 per rank
Requires: Stunning Blow
*The thought process behind this enhancement would be to increase a weaponized monk or centered kenseis utility and to reward character specialization.

STALWART DEFENDER

I like how defensive this tree is. It has way too much AP cost to get everything though. I suggest dropping total AP possible to be spent in the tree to 41 by adjusting the prices accordingly. Please drop the requirement for a shield to be in Stalwart Defense Stance. Tanks don't always want to have a shield equipped for trash.
I notice the lack of battlefield control that the class has, specifically the lack of snap aggroe tools you would expect a tank to have. I understand there is Intimidate but it is AoE and anyone can have it where this is a Tanking tree and should have something extra.

Mocking Blow
Melee Attack: Perform a melee attack with your main hand weapon that deals +1[W]. On Damage: Forces your target to attack you on a failed Will save for 6 seconds (DC 10 + Fighter level + Intimidate Skill). Allies attacking the target produce 80% less threat for 6 seconds. (Cooldown: 30 seconds)
*This skill would allow selective target control without pulling everything near the Stalwart Defender incase there is a second "trash tank". It is meant to essentially be no fail with such a high DC and long cooldown. Remember this is the tanking tree.

Mocking Shout
Nearby enemies are enraged upon hearing your insults. Forces all enemies that hear you to seek your death on a failed save for 6 seconds (DC 10 + Fighter level + Intimidate Skill). (Cooldown: 30 seconds)
*Again, I realize this is essentially the intimidate skill but with a higher DC. However, it will affect animals and other uninteligent enemies like golems and skeletons and it doesn't lose DC because of your size versus the enemies you are trying to get to attack you. Please keep in mind this is the tanking tree and should be offered more aggroe control than other characters.

Core Abilities

Toughness
You gain +1 Hit Point for each action point you spend in this tree. Each Stalwart Defender Core Ability you possess (including this one) grants +3% Fortification.
*Good start but the total amount of AP available to be spent in the tree should be dropped down to 41 and the HP per point spent should be doubled for a total of 82 HPs.

Overbalance
Your shields gain On Vorpal: Knock an opponent to the ground.
*Good low level pick up. Please state whether mobs are helpless or not like in ED abilities and the duration of the knockdown.

Stalwart Defense
Shield Defensive Stance: You gain 10 Physical Resistance and a 50% bonus to melee threat generation. While in this stance, you move 10% slower, and are immune to rage effects. Requires an equipped shield and melee weapon. (Cooldown: 1 minute)
*Great stance but you need to drop the shield requirement.

Stand Fast
Shield Action Boost: You gain a +20 bonus to saves vs Fear and Knockdown for 20 seconds. This ability can be used
while feared or knocked down to end these effects. (Cooldown: 30 seconds)
*Good boost to use versus cometfall spam.

Defensive Sweep
Shield Action Boost: You generate +50% threat and your basic attacks strike two targets per swing instead of one for 20 seconds. (Cooldown: 30 seconds)
*Very nice for groups of trash mobs

Last Stand
Passive: You gain +2 Constitution. Shield Action Boost: You gain +100% Maximum hit points, +50 Physical Resistance Rating, and On Attacked: You are healed for 1d10 positive energy healing. This Action Boost does not share a cooldown with other Action Boost abilities, and can be used while helpless. (Cooldown: 3 minutes)
*Very nice at first glance but with mobs hitting for 100+ in EE content I would suggest changing the 1d10 positive healing per hit to a 5% chance to have heal cast on you per hit to see use with raid tanking.

Stalwart Defender: Tier 1

Item Defense
You have a 25/50/75% chance to negate potential item wear.
*Standard throw away points to progress to the next level of advancements. I have not run into equipmeant breaking while questing in years.

Improved Stalwart Defense
Choose one of the following:
- Durable Defense: While in Stalwart Defense, you gain a +5/10/15 Competence bonus to PRR.
- Inciting Defense: While in Stalwart Defense, you gain a 25/50/75% Competence bonus to melee threat generation.
- Resilient Defense: While in Stalwart Defense, you gain a +1/2/3 Competence bonus to all Saving Throws.
*The amount of AP required to get your stance back to what Stalwart Defenders were granted is rediculous. I suggest dropping the AP spent considerably across the tree.

Stalwart Defensive Mastery
+1/2/3 AC and MDB
*AP cost is too high and the AC benefits too little. Please change to 3/6/9 AC.

Defense Boost
Activate to gain a +5 Action Boost bonus to AC and PRR for 20 seconds. (Cooldown: 30 seconds)
*Please add 5 Action Boost bonus to Intimidate as well. Fighters have a hard time getting their intimidate to no fail levels in todays content even with the best gear.

Threatening Countenance
+1/2/3 Haggle, Intimidate, and +5/10/15% melee threat generation.
*Haggle doesn't really fit the tree at all. Please increase Intimidate to 2/4/6.


Stalwart Defender: Tier 2

Shield Striking
Increases your chance to make secondary shield bashes while attacking by 5/10/15%.
*Good shield Bash increase. Would like to see it increased to 10/20/30% for reliable threat in raid situations

Improved Stalwart Defense
Choose a second Improved Stalwart Defense (see tier 1)
*The amount of AP required to get your stance back to what Stalwart Defenders were granted is rediculous. I suggest dropping the AP spent considerably across the tree.

Stalwart Shield Mastery
+5/10/15% Shield AC and +1/2/3 Tower Shield MDB.
*Percent increases are always welcome.

Reinforced Defense
Choose either Shields or Armor/Docent: The AC bonus you gain from the chosen group is increased by 15/30/50%.
*Percent increases are always welcome

Instinctive Defense
You take 5/10/15% less extra damage when struck while helpless. (Additional damage while helpless varies by difficulty setting from 5% to 25%.)
*Great passive defense against the drow weapon poison.


Stalwart Defender: Tier 3

Improved Stalwart Defense
Choose the third (final) Improved Stalwart Defense (see tier 1)
*The amount of AP required to get your stance back to what Stalwart Defenders were granted is rediculous. I suggest dropping the AP spent considerably across the tree.

Greater Stalwart Defense
Choose one of the following:
- Hardy Defense: While in Stalwart Defense, you gain a +2/4/6 Competence bonus to Constitution
- Strong Defense: While in Stalwart Defense, you gain a +2/4/6 Competence bonus to Strength.
- Tenacious Defense: While in Stalwart Defense, you gain a +10/15/20% Competence bonus to maximum hit points.
*The amount of AP required to get your stance back to what Stalwart Defenders were granted is rediculous. I suggest dropping the AP spent considerably across the tree.

Reinforced Defense
Choose the second (final) Reinforced Defense. (See tier 2)
*Percent increases are always welcome

Ability Point
Select one of the following:
- Strength +1
- Constitution +1
*I would increase constitution to +2, this is the tanking tree after all.


Stalwart Defender: Tier 4

Counterattack
Action Boost: You gain On Shield Block: Your next attack within 3 seconds gains +1[W]. Stacks up to 0/2/3 times. (Cooldown: 30 seconds)
*Make this a passive boost any time you have a shield equipped to help with sword and board aggroe generation issues

Swift Defense
Stalwart Defense no longer reduces your movement speed.
*Perfect, everyone hates running slower than their group

Greater Stalwart Defense
Choose a second Greater Stalwart Defense (see tier 3)
*The amount of AP required to get your stance back to what Stalwart Defenders were granted is rediculous. I suggest dropping the AP spent considerably across the tree.

Shield Expertise
Shields you equip gain +1/2/3 to their Enhancement Bonus.
*AP cost is too steep and this is placed much too high in the tree for its relative power.

Ability Point
Select one of the following:
- Strength +1
- Constitution +1
*I would increase constitution to +2, this is the tanking tree after all.


Stalwart Defender: Tier 5

Reprisal
When you have a shield equipped you gain On Attacked: Your next attack gains +1 damage. This effect can
stack up to 3/6/10 times.
*Make this a permanent stacking buff that is not expended on attack to help with sword and board aggroe issues. A duration of 10 seconds would be enough to keep it from being active the whole time in a dungeon but see permanent upkeep when tanking a boss.

Block and Cut
Shield Melee Attack: Perform a melee attack with your main hand weapon that deals +1/2/3[W]. On Damage: You gain a 10/15/25% Morale bonus to melee doublestrike for 10 seconds. Requires an equipped shield and melee weapon. (Cooldown: 20 seconds)
*Great clicky attack. The doublestrike granted is high enough to make a noticeable impact in gameplay.

Greater Stalwart Defense
Choose the third (final) Greater Stalwart Defense (see tier 3)
*The amount of AP required to get your stance back to what Stalwart Defenders were granted is rediculous. I suggest dropping the AP spent considerably across the tree.

Armor Expertise
Armor you equip gains +1/2/3 to its Enhancement bonus.
*AP cost is too steep and this is placed much too high in the tree for its relative power.

*I notice the lack of battlefield control that the class has, specifically the lack of snap aggroe tools you would expect a tank to have. I understand there is Intimidate but it is AoE and anyone can have it where this is a Tanking tree and should have something extra.

Mocking Blow
Melee Attack: Perform a melee attack with your main hand weapon that deals +1[W]. On Damage: Forces your target to attack you on a failed Will save for 6 seconds (DC 10 + Fighter level + Intimidate Skill). Allies attacking the target produce 80% less threat for 6 seconds. (Cooldown: 30 seconds)
*This skill would allow selective target control without pulling everything near the Stalwart Defender incase there is a second "trash tank". It is meant to essentially be no fail with such a high DC and long cooldown. Remember this is the tanking tree.

Mocking Shout
Nearby enemies are enraged upon hearing your insults. Forces all enemies that hear you to seek your death on a failed save for 6 seconds (DC 10 + Fighter level + Intimidate Skill). (Cooldown: 30 seconds)
*Again, I realize this is essentially the intimidate skill but with a higher DC. However, it will affect animals and other uninteligent enemies like golems and skeletons and it doesn't lose DC because of your size versus the enemies you are trying to get to attack you. Please keep in mind this is the tanking tree and should be offered more aggroe control than other characters.

Willan
04-13-2013, 05:30 PM
reserved

Willan
04-13-2013, 05:31 PM
reserved

Willan
04-13-2013, 05:31 PM
reserved

Willan
04-13-2013, 05:32 PM
reserved

Willan
04-13-2013, 05:32 PM
reserved

Willan
04-13-2013, 05:33 PM
reserved

CoasterHops
04-13-2013, 10:20 PM
Awesome insight into the Ranger Trees.

Jay203
04-13-2013, 10:47 PM
quite a long write-up
should have separated each PrE into a Post on its own (freaking tower of text)

anyways, there are a lot of suggestions you make that i absolutely do not agree with
while there are some that i definitely agree with

altho i'm seriously too lazy to type everything out =_=;;;;

the biggest gripe i have about how people make suggestion is that they're balancing everything against superinflated stats of ENDGAME
which means in order for it to seem "appropriate" by endgame, the suggestions try to make each ability extremely powerful
which trivializes most things before endgame, and boosts power creep increment speed by x-fold =\

Indoran
04-14-2013, 12:56 AM
the biggest gripe i have about how people make suggestion is that they're balancing everything against superinflated stats of ENDGAME
which means in order for it to seem "appropriate" by endgame, the suggestions try to make each ability extremely powerful
which trivializes most things before endgame, and boosts power creep increment speed by x-fold =\

^agreed

Stanley_Nicholas
04-14-2013, 02:55 AM
the biggest gripe i have about how people make suggestion is that they're balancing everything against superinflated stats of ENDGAME
which means in order for it to seem "appropriate" by endgame, the suggestions try to make each ability extremely powerful
which trivializes most things before endgame, and boosts power creep increment speed by x-fold =\

^disagreed

It sucks having 90% of your abilities become useless at endgame, just so they won't be overpowered in pre-epic content. The proper solution is to have abilities scale with character level, not to balance everything for 1-19 and then be basically worthless beyond that.

Rian
04-14-2013, 04:01 AM
Remember that these trees have to work with Epic Destinies.

Some of OP's suggestions for the ranger enhancements would really trivialize some of the epic content. Such as your Aimed shot suggestion for a times 7 crit multiplier and +10 crit threat range. If used with Fury of the Wild's adrenaline we're looking at stupid amounts of damage that I, as a ranger, just couldn't agree with. Also, forcing us to stand still? If we're standing still we're taking damage as a ranged character. I personally do not want to be forced to be still because of an ability I want to use.

Killer should have its name changed to something like Sniper's Tenacity or Battle Lust or something and have an 4% chance to proc per hit stacking up to 1/2/4 times for 10/15/20 seconds, only losing one stack per expiration. Forcing us to get the killing blow is silly, we're not getting the same benefits as someone like a Legendary Dreadnought. At lower levels it may be easier, but at epic levels the killing blow usually ends up in the score of the melees or caster.

Your suggestion to Arcane Archer's Imbuements make the others completely obsolete.
Force arrows with disintegration? What would be the point of the other elemental stances? There is no way to mitigate that, so it's full damage every time unless the mob has percentage based damage reduction against all magical sources such as Crateos or someone with Radiant forcefield, and disintegration is un-typed. The green steel effect only has a 2% to proc, which also makes green steel disintegration items pointless.

In general for your choice of the way DC's should be calculated, they should go by ranger levels. Going by straight character levels seems too forgiving and gives another reason to go pure, which is needed imo.

Willan
04-14-2013, 10:11 AM
Remember that these trees have to work with Epic Destinies.

Some of OP's suggestions for the ranger enhancements would really trivialize some of the epic content. Such as your Aimed shot suggestion for a times 7 crit multiplier and +10 crit threat range. If used with Fury of the Wild's adrenaline we're looking at stupid amounts of damage that I, as a ranger, just couldn't agree with. Also, forcing us to stand still? If we're standing still we're taking damage as a ranged character. I personally do not want to be forced to be still because of an ability I want to use.

At the moment you can use Slayer Arrow clicky with Manyshot and a Adrenaline leading to 6k damage x4... By adding crit multiplier and threat range to the attack itself its designed to be useful without Adrenaline. Even when used with Adrenaline you are looking at a 4k-6k single shot on a cooldown. I forgot to add a cooldown to the description but based on the power of the ability I believe a 2 minute cooldown would be justified. You have to remember that trash is called trash because it is trivial to kill anyway. As far as raid mobs are concerned they have varying amounts of fortification which will taper off some of this abilities damage.

The shot is designed to be used while standing still only so you can't kite AND have damage. It just doesn't fit the theme of this tree to be a sniper and have all the aggroe. It would be a choice of when to use the ability instead of "oh the ability is up I must hit it".


Killer should have its name changed to something like Sniper's Tenacity or Battle Lust or something and have an 4% chance to proc per hit stacking up to 1/2/4 times for 10/15/20 seconds, only losing one stack per expiration. Forcing us to get the killing blow is silly, we're not getting the same benefits as someone like a Legendary Dreadnought. At lower levels it may be easier, but at epic levels the killing blow usually ends up in the score of the melees or caster.

By having a 30 second duration on the buff and a headshot ability for an instant kill from stealth as well as Aimshot and a new Sniper Shot with increased base damage you should be able to keep your stacks up while clearing trash if you use your abilities while coordinating with your group.


Your suggestion to Arcane Archer's Imbuements make the others completely obsolete.
Force arrows with disintegration? What would be the point of the other elemental stances? There is no way to mitigate that, so it's full damage every time unless the mob has percentage based damage reduction against all magical sources such as Crateos or someone with Radiant forcefield, and disintegration is un-typed. The green steel effect only has a 2% to proc, which also makes green steel disintegration items pointless.

You have to remember that disintegration when typed as a spell has a fort save for half damage and stacks with disintegration from items. The other arrows will still be used if they add spell like abilities as clickys for AA. Frost arrows will be used while clearing trash to give your PK arrow and Hold arrow a better chance to land since it lowers saves. Shocking arrows will be used on Raid bosses to give the whole raid 10% more damage. Acid arrows will be used against high fort mobs and bosses (think skeletons and truthful one) to give more group wide damage.


In general for your choice of the way DC's should be calculated, they should go by ranger levels. Going by straight character levels seems too forgiving and gives another reason to go pure, which is needed imo.

For AAs the DC must be calculated off of character level since the prestige is available to any class as long as it is an elf or half elf. For the Deepwood sniper assassinate ability, having it based off of ranger levels would be fine if the assassinate DC increase in Shadowdancer worked with it.

Willan
04-14-2013, 10:18 AM
quite a long write-up
should have separated each PrE into a Post on its own (freaking tower of text)

anyways, there are a lot of suggestions you make that i absolutely do not agree with
while there are some that i definitely agree with

altho i'm seriously too lazy to type everything out =_=;;;;

the biggest gripe i have about how people make suggestion is that they're balancing everything against superinflated stats of ENDGAME
which means in order for it to seem "appropriate" by endgame, the suggestions try to make each ability extremely powerful
which trivializes most things before endgame, and boosts power creep increment speed by x-fold =\

Thank you for taking the time to read and respond.

However, the worst thing this game has going for it is that some things simply do not work at all past heroic. All abilities that are a part of your character should be useful throughout the game if you planned for them. By having DCs for PrE clickys based off of 10+Character level+STAT you make sure that as long as you are leveling and focusing on maxing that stat the ability will see continued use. Heroic content only seems easy because of our experience when running that content and our ability to completely twink out our characters or TRs as we run through it for the 100th time.

We have to give new players the same amount of power we find from having the best equipmeant at level. We obviously can't hand everyone green steel weapons when they hit 12 but we can give them nice powerful abilities that actually make a difference when you take the time to click on them.

Jay203
04-14-2013, 01:47 PM
Thank you for taking the time to read and respond.

However, the worst thing this game has going for it is that some things simply do not work at all past heroic. All abilities that are a part of your character should be useful throughout the game if you planned for them. By having DCs for PrE clickys based off of 10+Character level+STAT you make sure that as long as you are leveling and focusing on maxing that stat the ability will see continued use. Heroic content only seems easy because of our experience when running that content and our ability to completely twink out our characters or TRs as we run through it for the 100th time.

We have to give new players the same amount of power we find from having the best equipmeant at level. We obviously can't hand everyone green steel weapons when they hit 12 but we can give them nice powerful abilities that actually make a difference when you take the time to click on them.

problem lies in horrible design for endgame
imo it started since vale/green steel came out. they just keep throwing out new things that make the old things obsolete.
as things stacks up more and more, developers also have to adjust 'end game' according to the power that the players have access to. pretty soon the entire game has become what it is now. where the heroic levels are just a 'phase' where you grind for equipment that will matter in endgame. while endgame is all about ED and gear.

dannydevil09
04-14-2013, 06:06 PM
looking foward to seeing your other writeups
tnx for sharing

Memnir
04-14-2013, 06:23 PM
Excellent and informative.
+Rep

HAL
04-14-2013, 08:58 PM
I suggest you add two additional tiers prior to the capstone at level 9 and level 15 to smooth out the progression and power of the class as a character progresses. This will also allow for a wider range of "break points" for multiclasses instead of all the 12/6/2 builds based around enhancements instead of actual class abilities.

To remedy these design flaws I urge you to make changes to total AP able to be spent in one tree to 41, and that you make all bottom "auto granted" abilities truly free if you meet the minimum class level and AP spent in tree.

For the spell power change I suggest that you make skills such as heal, repair, perform, and spellcraft grant 2 spell power per 1 point. I like the idea that you can focus on Int at creation to make dragon mark healing viable on Halfling characters that don't have access to devotion as a class line or for builds that want to get more use out of Rejuvenation Cocoon in epic level play.

I urge you to give Rangers 1 devotion per point spent in a class tree as an auto grant lvl 0 ability. They are a high skill point per level class and should be able to find the points to max heal to make up for the other 40 spell power lost if self healing is what they desire.

Paladins on the other hand are a 2 skill point at base class and will find it near impossible to find the extra points to spend on Int in creation since they already have to focus on Cha, Con (they are melee range as a general rule), Str, and sometimes Dex if they want to duel Wield. For them I suggest getting 2 positive spell power per point spent in a class tree. Paladins in P&P are much better healers than they are in DDO because of the inflated HP pools present. The extra devotion would do well to remedy their shortcomings. I strongly urge the development team to allow Lay on Hands to be affected by positive spell power with the release of the new enhancements. In P&P lay on hands is an iconic ability that defines the class because of its ability to fully heal an ally and put them back into the fight. In DDO it retains its limited number of uses and will heal maybe 1/3rd of someones HP bar in todays Epic content.

I like the suggestions in this post.

emptysands
04-14-2013, 09:34 PM
Good work.

bhgiant
04-14-2013, 10:33 PM
Excellent write up. I would like to add a counterpoint in the spirit of good open critical feedback. I will only comment on the AA and Tempest lines as they are the only ones I've played with extensively.

Bleed them out
No noticeable DPS gain.
I agree. It's not great. The damage needs to be amped up somehow. Doing it as a % of the damage you dealt that hit is a good idea.

Action Boost
I would keep the AP cost at 6 for all 3 tiers and simply have it grant both boosts.
Can't agree with that. You're asking to give 20AP worth of boosts for 6 AP. I do agree, you should be able to take both of these though. I suggest separating them out similar to the Favored Enemy Defense line.

Critical Accuracy/Damage
+1/2/3 to confirm Critical Hits.
Complete waste for the 6 AP cost
Almost agreed. It's way too expensive.

I would combine both enhancements for a total cost of 3 AP.
Way too cheap. 3 inherant seeker should be expensive. Make the Accuracy 1AP each and the Damage 2AP.

Elaborate Parry
I suggest changing this into a stance (think power attack or combat exerptise but for duel wielders).
Disagree. We already have too many stances. Just make the stacks disappear 1 at a time instead of all at once...

You would also need to code it to go above the 25 cap for it to see use in Epic play.
...and do this.

The Growing Storm
*I really like this skill as is but would love to see it turned into a stance.
Disagree. Just make the stacks disappear 1 at a time to make it last longer. That way people can use this WITH power attack.

A Thousand Cuts
Melee Dual Wielding Attack: Deals +1/3/5[W] damage. You gain +30/60/90 Melee Doublestrike chance for 6 seconds. (Cooldown: 2 minutes.)
*Great idea with this ability and synergizes perfectly with Dance of Death for clearing out packs of trash. The one suggestion I would make with this skill is if it only lasts 6 seconds the cooldown should be 1 minute or make it last 15 seconds for a cooldown of 2 minutes. If it is meant to be a "burn phase" or burst ability for boss fights then make it a 5 minute cooldown with a 30 second duration.
Absolutely 100% agree.

Arcane Archer
Core Abilities
I find all of these to be perfectly fine the way they are.

True Strike
*This is a skill that is worthless and makes people hate clicky attacks. It has no noticeable impact.
I would be ok with just doing away with it. It feels like it's there just because it has to be.

Dispelling Shot
*Great idea and if it has no DC it will actually be used. I suggest you make it able to dispell the Sacrifice buff from Mistress of Agonies to see the biggest praise. I would also like to see it dispell harmful effects if used on an ally.
I agree that it's an amazing idea. I think there should be things that can't be dispelled (especially since this is a no save effect). Making it dispell harmful effects on an ally would be OP. Keep it the way it is I say. Stripping Mistresses of their deathward so I can assassinate them will be sweet sweet vengeance.

Force Arrows
*I would add on to this skill a Disintigration effect on a natural 20 with Improved Elemental Arrows enhancement. It would fit thematically and give the people that don't like clicky attacks their Slayer Arrows back.
Disagree. This ability is great just as it is. Adding disintegration on a 20 would give it too much power and way to early.

Inferno Shot
Ranged Archery Attack: Performs a ranged attack with +0/1/2[W] damage. On Hit: Target gains 1 stack of Inferno (Target takes 1d6 fire damage every 2 second for 6 seconds. This effect can stack 20 times, and loses one stack on expiration.).
*This is skill is the reason people hate clicky attacks. Having to hit an attack every 3 seconds for an unnoticeably gain and it costs 6 SP. I would rewrite the enhancement to the top of the tree and have it fire off a Delayed Blast Fireball centered on all targets hit (like fiery detonation). The enhancement would look like this :
Ranged Archery Attack: Perform a ranged attack. On Hit: A ball of flame erupts from your target(s) simulating the Delayed Blast Fireball spell, causing an explosion of flame that deals 1d3+3 points of fire damage per character level up to a maximum damage of 25d3+75 at character level 25 to all targets around it.
Have the damage be modified by spell power and feats such as maximize and empower and able to crit. This would give Elven Wizards a viable reason to go AA. Make it a multi enhancement selector for DC to be based off of Wis or Dex or Int to suite as many AA builds as possible. Make the DC 10 + Character Level + Int/Dex/Wisdom. This will ensure that the skill sees use in Epic Play.
I mostly agree and like this idea. It definitely needs to be changed, no doubt. After playing with this ability for a while, I can confirm it is 100% horrible.
I would say instead, just make it 1d3+3 per level but keep it as a 6 seconds dot that can stack 3 times and procs every 2 seconds. At level 25, that's 375 damage every 2 seconds with full stacks. Adds meaningful but not gamebreaking damage.

Action Boost
*I would change the two boosts available to Sprint and Spell Power and have it grant both.
These boosts aren't great... but, they can be useful and at lower levels, 15 elemental resistance for 20 seconds can be pretty good. I say just leave these the way they are. Also, giving both for 6 AP is too cheap (as discussed above).

Shattermantle Shot
I LOVE the idea of an AA and caster coordinating this ability and Dispelling Shot to help with their DC's. At first glance it looks lackluster but after playing with it for a while, I can just imagine the possibilities here.

Terror Arrows
*Fearing arrows are the worst thing that has been designed and no uses them past their first couple months of playing DDO. I suggest changing this imbue into a clicky spell similar to my fireball suggestion.
Disagree. They are super awesome when you are soloing in heroic levels. You only have to run with a group once with this on to realize you should never do that again. Keep this the way it is.

Soul Magic
Every time you strike an enemy with your bow, you gain 1 temporary spell point. This effect can stack up to 10 times.
*Great idea but falls short. With an increased use of an AAs SP through clicky attacks this will not be enough to mitigate the extreme drain... I would change this to be 1 permanent SP gained back per arrow.
Absolutely disagree. Giving unlimited SP regeneration is not a great idea, even if it is just 1 SP at a time. After testing this for a couple hours, this ability does a great job of mitigating SP costs very well just by itself. Keep in mind, the abilities are only 2-6sp each except for the Slaying Arrow which is 20sp but that's covered with Moonbow. The stacks last a full minute as well. Keep this just the way it is.

Banishing Arrows
Paralyzing Arrows
Smiting Arrows
*The AA tree is too bloated with imbue toggles and this would make a great candidate for a clicky arrow attack.
Disagree. I think they have a good balance between the two in this line. Also, the imbues allow you to tailor your attacks to enemies without having to worry about clickies. I like that the new AA line is geared more toward utility and versatility, different imbues for different situations rather than just running around with slayer on all the time.

Arrow of Slaying
Ranged Archery Attack: Performs a ranged attack with +250 damage. (This damage can be multiplied by critical hits.) (Cost: 20 spell points. Cooldown: 20 seconds.)
*I would move this ability to the top Deepwood Sniper with no manacost and name it Sniper shot. If you are stealthed make it auto critical. The AA tree should be focused on casting spells through arrows and less about Raw Damage.
I'm still torn about this one. It really seems more of a Deepwood sniper ability. If I were to revise it, I would switch Slayer Arrow with Headshot. Give Deepwood Stalker's Headshot ability the 250 added damage before crit and let slayer arrows do a flat 500 additional damage.

EllisDee37
04-14-2013, 10:33 PM
Nice analysis, I've enjoyed reading them.

My only request is that you bump the thread when you add another write-up; the fighter one snuck in there without me getting any thread notification.

RobbinB
04-15-2013, 03:00 AM
Your suggestion to Arcane Archer's Imbuements make the others completely obsolete.
Force arrows with disintegration? What would be the point of the other elemental stances? There is no way to mitigate that, so it's full damage every time unless the mob has percentage based damage reduction against all magical sources such as Crateos or someone with Radiant forcefield, and disintegration is un-typed. The green steel effect only has a 2% to proc, which also makes green steel disintegration items pointless.

I also went ??? when I saw the suggestion of force arrows with disintegration, because it would pretty much obsolete the elemental arrows line.

I've been suggesting for years that arcane archer needed a revamp to make all the possible arrows have situational utility and that slayer arrows could become something available in a more general sense (by feat for example). So I definitely support much of what they are trying to do here.

I still wonder about the elemental arrows line. It seems to me that force arrows are better than any elemental arrow unless you take the final tier to get the specialized effect. But that's sort of the problem with the existing system - just as everyone who currently goes after slayer arrows spends exactly the same ap (and most of what you gain is summarily ignored), it seems that in the proposed system everyone who thinks elemental arrows are what they are after will basically be spending all the ap in that column. Might it not make more sense if it was grab a single element (excluding the opposed element), grab a secondary element (again excluding the opposed element), then enhance the 2 elements you chose with a final ap expense. Less ap spent overall but more variety in what people end up with.

Also, I'm not sure I see the point of taking the elemental arrows line at all. If I understand the tiers correctly then the force and terror line is needed to get to slayer arrows, so that's ap you "have" to spend. So from an ap perspective isn't the elemental arrows line an additional very large ap cost? Comparing what you actually get to just force arrows is it really worth it to invest that kind of ap?

(Or am i missing something? - not sure i fully understand these new trees yet)

bhgiant
04-15-2013, 09:17 AM
Also, I'm not sure I see the point of taking the elemental arrows line at all. If I understand the tiers correctly then the force and terror line is needed to get to slayer arrows, so that's ap you "have" to spend. So from an ap perspective isn't the elemental arrows line an additional very large ap cost? Comparing what you actually get to just force arrows is it really worth it to invest that kind of ap?

Nice, I didn't even notice that. I absolutely agree. There is NO reason to take the elemental line until you can get the final tier. It's 10AP that sees no usefulness over force arrows until then. I would propose that the elemental tier be changed to increase the die step at each tier so something like tier 1 1d6, tier 2 1d8, tier 2 1d10, tier 4 1d10+crit and keep the final tier the exact same way.

Taojeff
04-15-2013, 09:23 AM
quite a long write-up
should have separated each PrE into a Post on its own (freaking tower of text)

anyways, there are a lot of suggestions you make that i absolutely do not agree with
while there are some that i definitely agree with

altho i'm seriously too lazy to type everything out =_=;;;;

the biggest gripe i have about how people make suggestion is that they're balancing everything against superinflated stats of ENDGAME
which means in order for it to seem "appropriate" by endgame, the suggestions try to make each ability extremely powerful
which trivializes most things before endgame, and boosts power creep increment speed by x-fold =\


Agreed. I have posted suggestions in several other threads saying something similar. There are ways to make abilities useful without being overpowered also...

Willan
04-15-2013, 09:59 AM
I also went ??? when I saw the suggestion of force arrows with disintegration, because it would pretty much obsolete the elemental arrows line.

I've been suggesting for years that arcane archer needed a revamp to make all the possible arrows have situational utility and that slayer arrows could become something available in a more general sense (by feat for example). So I definitely support much of what they are trying to do here.

I still wonder about the elemental arrows line. It seems to me that force arrows are better than any elemental arrow unless you take the final tier to get the specialized effect. But that's sort of the problem with the existing system - just as everyone who currently goes after slayer arrows spends exactly the same ap (and most of what you gain is summarily ignored), it seems that in the proposed system everyone who thinks elemental arrows are what they are after will basically be spending all the ap in that column. Might it not make more sense if it was grab a single element (excluding the opposed element), grab a secondary element (again excluding the opposed element), then enhance the 2 elements you chose with a final ap expense. Less ap spent overall but more variety in what people end up with.

Also, I'm not sure I see the point of taking the elemental arrows line at all. If I understand the tiers correctly then the force and terror line is needed to get to slayer arrows, so that's ap you "have" to spend. So from an ap perspective isn't the elemental arrows line an additional very large ap cost? Comparing what you actually get to just force arrows is it really worth it to invest that kind of ap?

(Or am i missing something? - not sure i fully understand these new trees yet)

You have to remember that disintegration when typed as a spell has a fort save for half damage and stacks with disintegration from items. The other arrows will still be used if they add spell like abilities as clickys for AA. Frost arrows will be used while clearing trash to give your PK arrow and Hold arrow a better chance to land since it lowers saves. Shocking arrows will be used on Raid bosses to give the whole raid 10% more damage. Acid arrows will be used against high fort mobs and bosses (think skeletons and truthful one) to give more group wide damage.

Basically I am trying to get the new Arcane Archer tree closer to the P&P version with spell like abilities instead of DDOs arrow imbues. For reference here is the main draw of the Arcane Archer in P&P:

Imbue Arrow (Sp): At 2nd level, an arcane archer gains the ability to place an area spell upon an arrow. When the arrow is fired, the spell’s area is centered on where the arrow lands, even if the spell could normally be centered only on the caster. This ability allows the archer to use the bow’s range rather than the spell’s range. It takes a standard action to cast the spell and fire the arrow. The arrow must be fired in the round the spell is cast, or the spell is wasted.

By removing the extra imbue arrow stances from the tree and replacing them with spell like abilities we are much closer to the actual intent of the prestige class.

Willan
04-15-2013, 11:03 AM
Excellent write up. I would like to add a counterpoint in the spirit of good open critical feedback. I will only comment on the AA and Tempest lines as they are the only ones I've played with extensively.

Can't agree with that. You're asking to give 20AP worth of boosts for 6 AP. I do agree, you should be able to take both of these though. I suggest separating them out similar to the Favored Enemy Defense line.

Way too cheap. 3 inherant seeker should be expensive. Make the Accuracy 1AP each and the Damage 2AP.

These boosts aren't great... but, they can be useful and at lower levels, 15 elemental resistance for 20 seconds can be pretty good. I say just leave these the way they are. Also, giving both for 6 AP is too cheap (as discussed above).

I truly believe that you should only be able to spend 41 AP total in a prestige enhancement tree. Passive benefits like seeker,flat damage, and additions to skills should be priced the same. Lets use the khopesh which has the best crit profile in the game as the example of why 3 seeker should be 3 AP. A khopesh has a crit multiplier of 3 and crits 20% of the time, in this case 3 seeker comes out to 1.8 damage a hit. Why is 3 AP for 1.8 damage a hit way too cheap when you get +1 hit & damage for 2 AP in the same tree?


Disagree. We already have too many stances. Just make the stacks disappear 1 at a time instead of all at once...

Disagree. Just make the stacks disappear 1 at a time to make it last longer. That way people can use this WITH power attack.

The truth of the matter is we only have 1 stance for melee characters, power attack. Precision is there as an option but with overwhelming critical requiring power attack I assure you over 90% of the melees in the game use power attack.

I suggested they be made stances because I want options other than power attack in my characters. It would fit the tree perfectly to have both a defensive stance option and offensive stance option. You also have to remember that Tempest is offered to drow as their racial tree. Pure drow rogues and paladins do not have the feats to always pick up power attack and it would be nice to have more options.




I agree that it's an amazing idea. I think there should be things that can't be dispelled (especially since this is a no save effect). Making it dispell harmful effects on an ally would be OP. Keep it the way it is I say. Stripping Mistresses of their deathward so I can assassinate them will be sweet sweet vengeance.

I really believe that arcane archers should have their arrows given the spell like ability treatment. Being able to dispel Hold + Otto's Irresistible Dance from allies is hardly game breaking. Mistresses would still be immune to assassinate because they are Red Named, not because they don't have death ward. I am not sure if the ability has no save or that is just a typo.


Disagree. This ability is great just as it is. Adding disintegration on a 20 would give it too much power and way to early.

The old Slayer Arrows damage was a static 500 on a 20. The disintigrate spell caps out at 4D30 + 120 or 240 damage. It would force arcane archers to itemize spell power and focus on Int/Dex/Wis to get the save high enough to do the same damage they have on live now. How is that overpowered?


I mostly agree and like this idea. It definitely needs to be changed, no doubt. After playing with this ability for a while, I can confirm it is 100% horrible.
I would say instead, just make it 1d3+3 per level but keep it as a 6 seconds dot that can stack 3 times and procs every 2 seconds. At level 25, that's 375 damage every 2 seconds with full stacks. Adds meaningful but not gamebreaking damage.

I really believe that arcane archers should have their arrows given the spell like ability treatment. Being able to cast Delayed Blast Fireball through an arrow was my favorite ability in P&P.


I LOVE the idea of an AA and caster coordinating this ability and Dispelling Shot to help with their DC's. At first glance it looks lackluster but after playing with it for a while, I can just imagine the possibilities here.

Disagree. They are super awesome when you are soloing in heroic levels. You only have to run with a group once with this on to realize you should never do that again. Keep this the way it is.

Imagine the possibilities if, instead of doing all that work so your caster groupmate can cast Finger of Death reliably and steal all the glory, you can follow it up with an arrow imbued with Phantasmal Killer.


Absolutely disagree. Giving unlimited SP regeneration is not a great idea, even if it is just 1 SP at a time. After testing this for a couple hours, this ability does a great job of mitigating SP costs very well just by itself. Keep in mind, the abilities are only 2-6sp each except for the Slaying Arrow which is 20sp but that's covered with Moonbow. The stacks last a full minute as well. Keep this just the way it is.

If the developers move forward with turning many of the imbues that won't be used into spell like abilities an Arcane Archer that isnt a pure Caster Elf will be out of mana after 10-20 shots. My ranger at 25 with a Topaz of +200 Power only has 480 mana. A Kensei AA will only have 200 mana. Recouping about 80 mana while manyshotting a single monster every 2 minutes is hardly as gamebreaking as you believe at first glance. If you are worried about a pure elven Cleric having infinite mana in raids, please keep in mind that the arrow rate of fire is incredibly slow compared to melee and they cannot fire arrows and cast heals at the same time. If you think the same cleric is going to have crazy mana regen with manyshotting groups of mobs please keep in mind that many shot with improved precise shot takes 5 feats out of the 8 total you get at level 25 and requires a 19 dexterity score.


Disagree. I think they have a good balance between the two in this line. Also, the imbues allow you to tailor your attacks to enemies without having to worry about clickies. I like that the new AA line is geared more toward utility and versatility, different imbues for different situations rather than just running around with slayer on all the time.

The 4 imbues stemming from force arrows are lazy and unimaginative. Each one of the effects mimics a common item enchantment. If I wanted to paralyze, fear, smite, or banish my enemies I would simply swap to the corresponding bow and not change my arrow imbue. They have the ability to change those imbues to useful spell like abilities and it will be a damn shame if people settle for something they already have easy access to.


I'm still torn about this one. It really seems more of a Deepwood sniper ability. If I were to revise it, I would switch Slayer Arrow with Headshot. Give Deepwood Stalker's Headshot ability the 250 added damage before crit and let slayer arrows do a flat 500 additional damage.

I definately see the opportunity for Deepwood Sniper to become raw ranged damage focused and Arcane Archer to be more spell like ability focused.

RobbinB
04-15-2013, 02:26 PM
Nice, I didn't even notice that. I absolutely agree. There is NO reason to take the elemental line until you can get the final tier. It's 10AP that sees no usefulness over force arrows until then. I would propose that the elemental tier be changed to increase the die step at each tier so something like tier 1 1d6, tier 2 1d8, tier 2 1d10, tier 4 1d10+crit and keep the final tier the exact same way.

After playing along on Lamannia a bit there may be a reason to take elemental arrows - simply to fill the ap quota you need to get to the higher tier abilities. If I decided I wanted to get to slayer arrows, it seemed to me that there wasn't a lot of good stuff that would actually add up to the prerequisite 40 ap spent. (A lot of the one-off arrows don't really appeal to me). I also noticed that going "deep" in one particular PRE means you can't get very much in others due to limited ap. So an AA that goes after slayer plus elemental spends a lot of AP. Where does that leave monkcher and bardcher? (without lots of AP to spend on their class stuff that seems to be where)

Personally, it seemed to me that just getting the three tiers of force arrows and the bottom row abilities (things like morphing and metalline arrows), but ignoring the entire elemental line and the other higher tier arrows (including slayer arrows), then going deep into DWS might be the best way to approach a pure ranged ranger.

Seems to be lots of complaints about the cost of many enhancements and the points spent on useless filler, and I have to agree with them.

And good suggestion about ramping up some of the elemental damage. Maybe you only choose a single element at the bottom, and then ramp it up at each tier (with maybe a sideways direction for a second element which is also ramped up at the same time without additional ap). Again, you would have to choose one or 2 elements from the 4, but they would be more powerful at the same or less ap spent, making them more worthwile to go after.

Cetus
04-15-2013, 02:57 PM
Great write up on the kensei tree. Just one comment regarding the tactics, it would be much more desireable if they didn't share the cooldown, because that completely nullifies the pre-requisite feat in practice. I'd like to be able to use my feat and the enhancement in succession.

shadereaper33
04-15-2013, 04:16 PM
My thoughts on the OP's post:

first, I disagree completely with your suggestion to limit the maximum points one can spend in a tree. That should never, ever, under any circumstances be implemented.

Not every tree in the ranger PrE's needs to have +1 devotion per point spent. I can sort of understand having that in the AA tree, as it has some relation to spell casting, but adding it to the martial-centric trees as well just doesn't make any sense.

Tempest:

your suggestion to implement superior two weapon fighting as an epic feat is a good idea, but it shouldn't cost rangers their free extra procs.

adding +2 strength to the existing capstone for tempest is too much. No other capstone gives +2 to 2 different stats, and that capstone in particular is good enough as is.

Arcane archer:

Again, adding multiple stats to a capstone seems like overkill to me.

Adding disintegration to the force arrows is too much. Aside from the fact that it isn't part of the elemental arrows tree, and that force isn't actually an element, the ability itself is already good enough. Force burst and ghost touch on any bow you equip is just fine.

Your changes to inferno shot are unnecessary. The skill works fine as is, and those who don't like to use clicky attacks can spend their AP elsewhere. It isn't a pre-req for anything, so there is no "need" to take it if you don't want it.

Changing terror arrows is a good idea. However, making it a clicky PK attack is not. I would prefer to see it remain a stance, but have the terror item effect.

Your suggested change to soul magic is far too powerful and unnecessary. The temp sp are indeed noticable and useful as it is, and giving an ability to shoot a bow at something to regen sp without limit would be horribly OP.

You complain about too many clicky abilities, but you seem to want to turn half of the stances into clicky abilities. It seems highly unnecessary to me. paralyzing arrows is another stance that I feel is just fine as is.

Removing slaying arrows from the AA tree will not, and should not, ever happen. Slaying arrows is one of the most iconic abilities out of the entire PrE, and the amount of uproar that would result from removing it would be insane. That said, I would not be opposed to a similar ability being added to the deepwood stalker tree.

runebow is a STACKING +2 hit and damage, as well as a STACKING +6 universal spell power. well deserving of it's place at the top of the tree.

deepwood stalker:

horizon shot: sneak attack dice are a core feature of rogues. giving out too much of it to other classes will serve as a proxy nerf to one of the core features of the rogue class. In just the DS core abilities, you currently can get 4d6 SA damage, and you want to add another 3d6? 7d6 SA damage from enhancements here compared to the rogue's 10d6 base doesn't sit well with me.

Your changes to aimed shot are just rediculous. Given that most bows are base 20/x3, 19-20/x3 with imp crit, this would be a shot at 9-20/x10. No, just no.

I disagree entirely with your suggested changes to hunter's mercy. I feel that the abiltiy is perfectly fine as is. The only suggestion I could see being made is to remove the sneak attack requirement for the extra damage.

adding +8 dex and wis to power surge is a bit silly, if you ask me. Not only does it not fit the theme of the ability, but a total +24 bonus to your stats for 1 minute? I mean really? Now, if they wanted to add a selector to allow you to pick between str, dex, and wis, I would be ok with that.

A good death is fine as is. Frankly, I think your suggestion here is actually a nerf.

Deadly strike is effectively a guaranteed critical whenever you want it. That certainly has uses in the right circumstances. such as if you are in fury of the wild and just hit adrenaline, use this attack for a guaranteed adrenaline crit. I think your suggested changes here are too much.

stalwart defender:

last stand: that 1d10 healing on hit would be affected by healing amp, and result in much higher numbers. Given that people make use of the unyielding sentinel stance that gives you 10 temp hp when you are hit, I think this is just fine as is.

EllisDee37
04-15-2013, 04:34 PM
Not every tree in the ranger PrE's needs to have +1 devotion per point spent. I can sort of understand having that in the AA tree, as it has some relation to spell casting, but adding it to the martial-centric trees as well just doesn't make any sense.Not having devotion available to tempests makes no sense whatsoever.

hit_fido
04-15-2013, 06:04 PM
first, I disagree completely with your suggestion to limit the maximum points one can spend in a tree. That should never, ever, under any circumstances be implemented.

Agree with your disagreement. That really punishes a build that may be unlikely to find 39 AP worth of relevant enhancements in racial and the other trees. Probably even worse if the build is pure class. Why prohibit specialization if one wants to go that direction?

EllisDee37
04-15-2013, 07:31 PM
The way I read it, he's saying no tree should have more than 41 points worth of stuff to take. As in, the 41st point you spend means you took every single thing in the tree.

I could be wrong, though.

eonfreon
04-15-2013, 08:02 PM
Not every tree in the ranger PrE's needs to have +1 devotion per point spent. I can sort of understand having that in the AA tree, as it has some relation to spell casting, but adding it to the martial-centric trees as well just doesn't make any sense.


You're already thinking in the new terms, buying into the new "logic", and excluding everything that has come before up to this point. As if Rangers, in general, don't all have some relation to spell casting. There's nothing more inherently "Healing Devoted" about an AA over a Tempest.

Devotion is a Ranger enhancement, because all Rangers can heal. It has nothing to do with the PrE. Devotion existed before Tempests and AA ever came out. These abilities don't need to be split up into "PrE trees", the Devs have just decided that they should be.

Before general enhancements made up the bulk of the Enhancements, now they all have to fit into PrE trees, when it used to be the opposite. PrE's fit into the General "tree" of Enhancements and locked out any other PrE's.

Take the proposed Paladin Tree. The way Turbine nerfed the Defensive Stance into a Shield Defensive Stance makes it completely useless to me, since I'm a TWFer (plus they didn't even buff the Stance, they just made all of the things that used to function passively no longer function without a Shield equipped and they even made it worse than that judging by the Stalwart Defender and loss of Stance anytime you equip a scroll or wand or even throwing weapon), however I want to spend points in the "defender Tree". Not because I want anything to do with the Defender PrE but because that's where key parts of a Paladin build are. Extra Lay on Hands and Resistance Aura are kind of essential to my Paladin.

Heck, I'd even like to be able to spend more points in that tree because I need to make up for losing 80 Devotion and 30 HP from Paladin Devotion 4 and Paladin Toughness 3. The way I looked at it I can recover 26 hp, but only 26 Devotion. That's a heck of a nerf, just because they've decided that Devotion should be bought in tiny dribbles in a line that won't appeal to many people.

Devotion is not a "spellcasting thing". It's because Paladins and Rangers, no matter the PrE, have curative spells in their "spell books". All of them. And Devotion allows them to make it actually of use in the most difficult content. Currently I got 80 points of positive spellpower from Devotion. With the new system I'll have about 26. Even with Heal maxxed out (meaning I'm losing build points into Int or useful skills) and a Sustenance Item and some Wisdom (it's still a dump stat, the only dump stat I have) I'll get 23 Heal + 15 Sustenance Item + 5 Wis = 43 + 26 "devotion" = 69. 11 pts short. That's 11% loss. And I'm "paying" extra in build points to "only" lose that much.

Things like Devotion and other Base Class Enhancements should have stayed just that, base Class Enhancements. There was no need to bind them into PrE Trees. No need for "well Devotion's about spellcasting, so it makes sense that AA should get iit, not Tempests". Really? It's about healing. So I say if an AA chooses "slaying Arrows", the very antithesis of Healing, he should automatically have no positive spellpower whatsoever. It's makes a thematic sense, don't you think? After all, he's a Slayer not a Healer.

The base abilities should have their own trees. And the PrE's should be offshoots off it, like it is on Live. Not the other way around, like the Devs have decided for whatever reason.

Willan
04-15-2013, 08:26 PM
The way I read it, he's saying no tree should have more than 41 points worth of stuff to take. As in, the 41st point you spend means you took every single thing in the tree.

I could be wrong, though.

You, Sir, have good reading comprehension. That is exactly what I meant when I wrote "make changes to total AP able to be spent in one tree to 41".