PDA

View Full Version : Test of Ranger with Devotion 4 and Ranger with Heal Skill.



Archangel666
04-12-2013, 09:51 AM
After looking at the new system and brief testing it felt like a nerf, so I decided to test more thoroughly.

Test involved casting Maximized Cure Serious Wounds 20 times and copying and pasting the results to Notepad.

All three Rangers are AA's and the Lammania ones both have all Core Abilities which gives the weapon a +9 Implement Bonus to Universal Spell Power. Weapon used was a +1 Metaline Longbow of Smiting (Just the first thing I saw after I LRed). I will admit that using the Epic Longbow of Earth gives a 24 Implement Bonus to Universal Spell Power which I missed, but the tests should be close enough to equal. The 24 Implement Bonus takes Positive Energy Spell Power from 132 to 147.


Live, Human, 20 Ranger, 3 Epic(Not prepared to take last two levels just to test this, still have ED farming to do), Epic Mask of Comedy(90 Positive Spell Power), 30% Human Healing Amp, 30% PDK Gloves, Ranger Devotion 4 (80 Positive Spell Power)

Maximized Cure Serious Wounds at 170 Positive Energy Spell Power.


(Combat): You heal 222 points of damage from Cure Serious Wounds.

(Combat): You heal 230 points of damage from Cure Serious Wounds.

(Combat): You heal 255 points of damage from Cure Serious Wounds.

(Combat): You heal 270 points of damage from Cure Serious Wounds.

(Combat): You heal 230 points of damage from Cure Serious Wounds.

(Combat): You heal 222 points of damage from Cure Serious Wounds.

(Combat): You heal 237 points of damage from Cure Serious Wounds.

(Combat): You heal 270 points of damage from Cure Serious Wounds.

(Combat): You heal 270 points of damage from Cure Serious Wounds.

(Combat): You heal 222 points of damage from Cure Serious Wounds.

(Combat): You heal 215 points of damage from Cure Serious Wounds.

(Combat): You heal 310 points of damage from Cure Serious Wounds.

(Combat): You heal 237 points of damage from Cure Serious Wounds.

(Combat): You heal 262 points of damage from Cure Serious Wounds.

(Combat): You heal 230 points of damage from Cure Serious Wounds.

(Combat): You heal 270 points of damage from Cure Serious Wounds.

(Combat): You heal 247 points of damage from Cure Serious Wounds.

(Combat): You heal 247 points of damage from Cure Serious Wounds.

(Combat): You heal 262 points of damage from Cure Serious Wounds.

(Combat): You heal 270 points of damage from Cure Serious Wounds.

*Crit for 590 omitted during this phase for obvious reasons*





New Enhancements system, Human, 20 Ranger 5 Epic, 30% Human Healing Amp, 30% PDK Gloves, 11 Heal Skill (Direct copy from Live).

Maximized Cure Serious Wounds at ??? Positive Energy Spell Power (I'll be honest and say I forgot to check this before I LRed).


(Combat): You heal 204 points of damage from Cure Serious Wounds.

(Combat): You heal 179 points of damage from Cure Serious Wounds.

(Combat): You heal 211 points of damage from Cure Serious Wounds.

(Combat): You heal 204 points of damage from Cure Serious Wounds.

(Combat): You heal 186 points of damage from Cure Serious Wounds.

(Combat): You heal 192 points of damage from Cure Serious Wounds.

(Combat): You heal 198 points of damage from Cure Serious Wounds

(Combat): You heal 198 points of damage from Cure Serious Wounds.

(Combat): You heal 179 points of damage from Cure Serious Wounds.

(Combat): You heal 167 points of damage from Cure Serious Wounds.

(Combat): You heal 198 points of damage from Cure Serious Wounds.

(Combat): You heal 218 points of damage from Cure Serious Wounds.

(Combat): You heal 167 points of damage from Cure Serious Wounds.

(Combat): You heal 186 points of damage from Cure Serious Wounds.

(Combat): You heal 179 points of damage from Cure Serious Wounds.

(Combat): You heal 198 points of damage from Cure Serious Wounds.

(Combat): You heal 186 points of damage from Cure Serious Wounds.

(Combat): You heal 204 points of damage from Cure Serious Wounds.

(Combat): You heal 173 points of damage from Cure Serious Wounds.

(Combat): You heal 223 points of damage from Cure Serious Wounds.





New Enhancements system, Human, 20 Ranger 5 Epic, Epic Mask of Comedy(90 Positive Spell Power), 30% Human Healing Amp, 30% PDK Gloves, 33 Heal Skill (As before but after an LR to spend points on Heal Skill at every level, all else remains unchanged.)

Maximized Cure Serious Wounds at 132 Positive Energy Spell Power.


(Combat): You heal 218 points of damage from Cure Serious Wounds.

(Combat): You heal 250 points of damage from Cure Serious Wounds.

(Combat): You heal 171 points of damage from Cure Serious Wounds.

(Combat): You heal 223 points of damage from Cure Serious Wounds.

(Combat): You heal 178 points of damage from Cure Serious Wounds.

(Combat): You heal 183 points of damage from Cure Serious Wounds.

(Combat): You heal 211 points of damage from Cure Serious Wounds.

(Combat): You heal 183 points of damage from Cure Serious Wounds.

(Combat): You heal 183 points of damage from Cure Serious Wounds.

(Combat): You heal 204 points of damage from Cure Serious Wounds.

(Combat): You heal 230 points of damage from Cure Serious Wounds.

(Combat): You heal 171 points of damage from Cure Serious Wounds.

(Combat): You heal 197 points of damage from Cure Serious Wounds.

(Combat): You heal 204 points of damage from Cure Serious Wounds.

(Combat): You heal 178 points of damage from Cure Serious Wounds.

(Combat): You heal 218 points of damage from Cure Serious Wounds.

(Combat): You heal 218 points of damage from Cure Serious Wounds.

(Combat): You heal 204 points of damage from Cure Serious Wounds.

(Combat): You heal 237 points of damage from Cure Serious Wounds.

(Combat): You heal 197 points of damage from Cure Serious Wounds.

*Crit for 411 omitted during this phase for obvious reasons*

Missing_Minds
04-12-2013, 10:01 AM
The 3 different group averages are...

248.9

192.5

202.9


You lost about 50-60 HP on your cures under the new system. If you had a heal 15 item you could probalby make that... 40-50 HP loss.

But as stated by others, Rangers got nerfed.

Archangel666
04-12-2013, 10:03 AM
The 3 different group averages are...

248.9

192.5

202.9


You lost about 50-60 HP on your cures under the new system. If you had a heal 15 item you could probalby make that... 40-50 HP loss.

But as stated by others, Rangers got nerfed.

Thanks MM, I'll admit to being too lazy to calculate the averages after standing there and casting, copying, pasting, LR'ing and repeating 60+ times.

Charononus
04-12-2013, 10:04 AM
Thanks for the numbers to prove it, now we have something to refer to.

kingfisher
04-12-2013, 01:23 PM
because rangers were so good they needed to have the healing power nerfed.

Synthetic
04-12-2013, 07:14 PM
I don't get it you tested without wearing a heal item and got smaller numbers. As an epic character you could have another 24 points from a heal 20 item and a GH. You also didn't use the max implement bonus so there's another 15 leaving you in 3 points of your old spell power with the current enhancements. That would leave you at 171 vs 170.

You could push that higher with exceptional skill bonuses too.

Did I miss something or did you decide to skew the "testing"?

Cheers

Wulverine
04-12-2013, 07:41 PM
We intend to restore positive spellpower (devotion) to Rangers in some form.

Sooooo...... Let's just wait and see for now.

9Crows
04-12-2013, 08:00 PM
I don't get it you tested without wearing a heal item and got smaller numbers. As an epic character you could have another 24 points from a heal 20 item and a GH. You also didn't use the max implement bonus so there's another 15 leaving you in 3 points of your old spell power with the current enhancements. That would leave you at 171 vs 170.

You could push that higher with exceptional skill bonuses too.

Did I miss something or did you decide to skew the "testing"?

Cheers

adding more gear now than what is currently worn on live would skew the test

Archangel666
04-13-2013, 06:29 AM
I don't get it you tested without wearing a heal item and got smaller numbers. As an epic character you could have another 24 points from a heal 20 item and a GH. You also didn't use the max implement bonus so there's another 15 leaving you in 3 points of your old spell power with the current enhancements. That would leave you at 171 vs 170.

You could push that higher with exceptional skill bonuses too.

Did I miss something or did you decide to skew the "testing"?

Cheers

I did check briefly for a +15 Heal item on the AH on Lamm but there weren't any.

In answer to your question though, the test isn't perfect, nor would I even try to claim otherwise. It was never meant to be a test of the max possible healing I could do on my Ranger, if it had been I would have been wearing a +120 Devotion item, the best possible Potency item, Superior Healing Lore item, used Empower Healing as well as Maximize and used 10%, 20% Healing Amp gear and 10% Healing Amp Ship Buff on Live and done the test 100 times rather than 20. I would then be counting in crits too into the average.

All that just muddies things too much.

It was meant as a test of what the changes would mean with moderate investment to healing and I feel that using Maximize and wearing an item with +90 Devotion and +52 Potency, 30% Healing Amp and taking all four Ranger Devotion Enhancements and all three Human Improved Recovery Enhancements counts as more than a moderate investment. As does spending a point in Heal at each level (That cost me 2 points to my total Strength btw so my damage is now less on a Ranged focused Ranger).

You're right in that I didn't count the max Implement Bonus in the test, I even mentioned it in my OP, however the difference between them was 15. Hardly earth-shattering.

My test isn't perfect as I said but it does let us do nifty things like this:

Using Missing Minds averages of my numbers we can see that the difference between 11 Heal Skill and 33 Heal Skill is:

202.9 - 192.5 = 10.4

The difference between 33 and 11 is:

33 - 11 = 22

So:

10.4 / 22 = 0.47(27 recurring so for simplicities sake I'll ignore)

Which means that for each point in Heal Skill my average Cure Serious Wounds increases in effectiveness by 0.47.

Given that GH isn't a Ranger Spell I don't feel it's reasonable to expect it to be permanently on, but for the sake of argument let's count it in too and add your 20.

0.47 * 20 = 9.4

So let's look at the average for Lamm again with Heal Skill maxed at each level.

202.9 +9.4 = 212.3


*Edit* Could someone check my maths for me please? Make sure I haven't done anything stupid, it's been a while since I did any.

Synthetic
04-13-2013, 11:42 PM
Part of the issue I see is your averages seem off. On average the base heal should be 31.5 or 36(if 3d6 is loaded so actually 3d3 + 9) * 3.7 for your current positive spell power * 1.69 for your healing amp should be about 196 or 225(loaded) vs your 250ish listed. If dice are loaded the numbers match your average for your 3.32 spell power coming out at 201.9. So the difference should be about 25 which can be closed by gearing/buffs.

You should only need to compare spell power rather then running tests i.e. can you get 170 spell power before and after the change. If you test and got different results after making sure everything was equal then raise it as an issue. If you flat out couldn't get 170 spell power then that could be an issue too, but you didn't show that, and the difference you mentioned of 15 points plus 15 for an item and 4 for a GH closes the gap fairly well. Now with the addition of ranger devotion you should be able to reach it easily and possibly come out higher via changing some gear/adding more skill points.

Your comparison is also flawed as you state you lost 1 damage, but you freed up 10 ap, and didn't mention that. It's tough to compare because so much is different, but that 10 ap could be 1 or more points of damage added.

Regardless, I understand you're trying to make sure ranger as a class is just as viable after the change, but please do look at the big picture as there's a lot to like with the new changes.

Cheers

Vulgari
04-14-2013, 01:18 AM
I don't get it you tested without wearing a heal item and got smaller numbers. As an epic character you could have another 24 points from a heal 20 item and a GH. You also didn't use the max implement bonus so there's another 15 leaving you in 3 points of your old spell power with the current enhancements. That would leave you at 171 vs 170.

You could push that higher with exceptional skill bonuses too.

Did I miss something or did you decide to skew the "testing"?

Cheers

Other than the gloves from the epic GH raid what other +20 heal item is there?
And if you are using that, are you really item switching everytime you're heal casting?

As for the "freeing up" of action points, is that in any way offset with the fact that I have to spend skill points on heal?

Jaid314
04-14-2013, 01:50 AM
Other than the gloves from the epic GH raid what other +20 heal item is there?
And if you are using that, are you really item switching everytime you're heal casting?

As for the "freeing up" of action points, is that in any way offset with the fact that I have to spend skill points on heal?

that depends. i have a (mostly) pure ranger. i find i often don't really have an particularly compelling use for skill points on that character... i have all that i need, already, and more.

on the other hand, if i had splashed a level of rogue or artificer for trap skills and UMD, i would likely feel that spending skill points on heal was, in fact, pretty painful.

Qhualor
04-14-2013, 01:51 AM
going by what OP shows, it would definitely seem a big nerf to Rangers. I don't know about other Rangers, but mine doesn't have a devotion item on him at all times. I take the devotion enhancements, maximized and ardor potions. that was sufficient since I don't consider Rangers to be healers. if I wanted my Ranger to be a healer, I would invest in UMD for heal scrolls. with this change, does this mean I would have to have a heal item equipped for better cures? i don't have a place to slot an item like that.

Archangel666
04-14-2013, 09:05 AM
going by what OP shows, it would definitely seem a big nerf to Rangers. I don't know about other Rangers, but mine doesn't have a devotion item on him at all times. I take the devotion enhancements, maximized and ardor potions. that was sufficient since I don't consider Rangers to be healers. if I wanted my Ranger to be a healer, I would invest in UMD for heal scrolls. with this change, does this mean I would have to have a heal item equipped for better cures? i don't have a place to slot an item like that.

Welcome to my world.