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Inouk
03-26-2013, 05:34 PM
I see a lot of posts asking about damage comparisons, and I have done plenty of them for myself. Well, I got tired of fiddling with #'s and finally (no idea why it took me until now) decided to put together a decent formula. This allows you to plug in your damage bonuses, seeker, double strike, and the properties of the weapon. A separate variable for "bonus x on 19-20" allows you to add in modifiers gained by OC, ED (devastating crit, headmans' chop, etc), FB III, etc. It doesn't (yet) account for differences in off hand attacks (rate, bonus) or manuevers (cleave, manyshot, etc), but it gives a good apples to apples snapshot comparison where appropriate (like trying to choose between two weapons)

You will have to calculate some things yourself (i.e. holy is a proc worth 7, shocking blast is a crit proc worth 11 on a *3 weapon, etc). Put special % attacks (lightning strike) as a normal proc based on average damage. You can (if you want) add your glancing blows as proc damage also, but that will vary greatly with how often you get 1st/4th attacks in chain (disrupted by cleaves, moving, etc) so it can be added to get a rough idea, but will imbalance the stats compared to weapons that don't get them. So, all that said, you can plug this formula into a spread sheet with these columns:

damage bonus
base
crit range
crit multiplier
bonus x on 19-20
base proc1
base proc2
base proc3
base proc4
vorpal proc1
vorpal proc2
crit proc1
crit proc2
crit proc3
crit proc4
seeker
double strike%
total/swing = (((B1+B2)*(19+B3*(B4-1)+2*B5)+B16*(B3*B4+2*B5)+19*SUM(B6:B9)+sum(B10:B1 1)+B3*SUM(B12:B15))/20)*(1+B17/100)

Feel free to check my work and offer any criticisms. This can be easily enough modified to generate DPS #'s as well, but will take a little work.

*edited to update fields/formula to add vorpal procs)*

Inouk
03-26-2013, 05:40 PM
Example for a Cleaver, Hewer of Suffering with +60 bonus damage, +8 seeker, OC, FB III (+2 mult on 19-20)
damage bonus 60
base 28
crit range 2
crit multiplier 3
bonus x on 19-20 3
base proc1 13.5
base proc2 5.5
base proc3 44
base proc4
crit proc1
crit proc2
crit proc3
crit proc4
seeker 8
double strike% 6
total/swing 203.785

And for a Lit II Khopesh, +37 damage bonus, +8 seeker, OC
damage bonus 37
base 11.5
crit range 4
crit multiplier 3
bonus x on 19-20 1
base proc1 3.5
base proc2 7
base proc3 9.15
base proc4
crit proc1 11
crit proc2 11
crit proc3
crit proc4
seeker 8
double strike% 0
total/swing 98.9925

Loriac
03-26-2013, 06:11 PM
You need a vorpal damage line somewhere, and you also need to differentiate main hand attacks vs. off hand (specifically doublestrike affects mainhand only).

Inouk
03-26-2013, 07:23 PM
You need a vorpal damage line somewhere, and you also need to differentiate main hand attacks vs. off hand (specifically doublestrike affects mainhand only).

This is not a DPS calc, it's a weapon calc, therefor I did nothing for off-hand attacks. You would simply calculate off hand using your normal damage mod minus half your str mod (and then multiply by off hand proc %).

Vorpal is an on-20 and therefor you can just add an on-hit proc of 5 damage (average). I chose not to include vorpal because most of us get our vorpal attack from other sources (like ring of the stalker) and it will add 5 damage/attack to any weapon, so it's irrelevant to determining best weapon. If you have a weapon that has vorpal (or really want to add in the effect from another item) you could simply add 5 damage in one of the proc fields and be done (there is no valid way to calculate for possible insta-kills). Double-strike was mostly included as a way to differentiate 2-handed weapons with the property from those without (I don't know of any 1-handed weapons that have double-strike and get any use anymore, except maybe alchemical).

As I said I haven't (yet) converted this for use as a DPS calculator, which would need to have provisions for off-hand attacks, rate of attack (would need to factor for off-hand, manyshot, 10k stars, etc), and possibly even cleaves and such... but really this is overly complex because you would have to know how many targets/attack, and averages may not suffice. What I will likely add is a field for enemy fort and (maybe) DR for comparisons (though for DR it's easy enough to subtract the DR from the total if applicable).

scoobmx
03-26-2013, 07:35 PM
i guess the real question is why reinvent the wheel when there are many tools already both in spreadsheet form and application form that do this kind of thing...

voxson5
03-26-2013, 07:45 PM
Any reason you omitted FB3 on the khopesh calc?

The bonus should also technically be +(x3 19-20) due to fb2+fb3+death frenzy

Inouk
03-26-2013, 07:49 PM
Any reason you omitted FB3 on the khopesh calc?

The bonus should also technically be +(x3 19-20) due to fb2+fb3+death frenzy

It's just an example; this particular example was for my 12rng/8ftr tempest kensei, which is why I omitted FB III.

Inouk
03-26-2013, 07:52 PM
i guess the real question is why reinvent the wheel when there are many tools already both in spreadsheet form and application form that do this kind of thing...

Well, I admit I didn't look for one, but this is a simple formula anyone can use that accounts for most reasonable variables. I haven't seen one that does this and I see questions asking for analysis of damage all the time, so I thought I'd post it in case it helps anyone. I also see a lot of bad math done, so I thought having a template was useful. I like to do my own math, so I had something to work from already *shrug*

voxson5
03-26-2013, 07:54 PM
It's just an example; this particular example was for my 12rng/8ftr tempest kensei, which is why I omitted FB III.

There are so many variables you will need to consider, with that example you also need to include favoured/non- favoured enemy damage & kensai seeker.

Have you seen Absoluteomnicience's (sp?) DPS spreadsheet? It is quite comprehensive, and may give you a good base to start from.

Loriac
03-26-2013, 08:02 PM
This is not a DPS calc, it's a weapon calc, therefor I did nothing for off-hand attacks. You would simply calculate off hand using your normal damage mod minus half your str mod (and then multiply by off hand proc %).

Vorpal is an on-20 and therefor you can just add an on-hit proc of 5 damage (average). I chose not to include vorpal because most of us get our vorpal attack from other sources (like ring of the stalker) and it will add 5 damage/attack to any weapon, so it's irrelevant to determining best weapon. If you have a weapon that has vorpal (or really want to add in the effect from another item) you could simply add 5 damage in one of the proc fields and be done (there is no valid way to calculate for possible insta-kills). Double-strike was mostly included as a way to differentiate 2-handed weapons with the property from those without (I don't know of any 1-handed weapons that have double-strike and get any use anymore, except maybe alchemical).

As I said I haven't (yet) converted this for use as a DPS calculator, which would need to have provisions for off-hand attacks, rate of attack (would need to factor for off-hand, manyshot, 10k stars, etc), and possibly even cleaves and such... but really this is overly complex because you would have to know how many targets/attack, and averages may not suffice. What I will likely add is a field for enemy fort and (maybe) DR for comparisons (though for DR it's easy enough to subtract the DR from the total if applicable).

You misunderstand me; there are various on-vorpal damage effects that you should add in to your framework to make the calculator as generic as possible.

Additionally, you can get double strike on items, but the effect only applies to the main hand, hence my suggestion that you incorporate this in. I'd further add in that you should have a %chance to proc off hand in your framework too, to allow for twf/itwf/gtwf/tempestI/tempestII modifications.

If you don't want to change what you've done, I don't really care, but you did ask for suggestions as to how to make what you're doing better.

Wipey
03-26-2013, 08:12 PM
Additionally, you can get double strike on items, but the effect only applies to the main hand, hence my suggestion that you incorporate this in.
Weirdly enough, momentum and sunder got off hand double strike proc, both for sunder effect and damage.

Have you seen Absoluteomnicience's (sp?) DPS spreadsheet? It is quite comprehensive, and may give you a good base to start from.
I tried getting it few months ago but the link was dead.

cru121
03-27-2013, 03:06 AM
A simple weapon comparison xls sheet I have created:

Probably similar to what OP has.

Inouk
03-27-2013, 04:19 AM
A simple weapon comparison xls sheet I have created:

Probably similar to what OP has.

Yes, very similar =)

Inouk
03-27-2013, 04:32 AM
You misunderstand me; there are various on-vorpal damage effects that you should add in to your framework to make the calculator as generic as possible.

Additionally, you can get double strike on items, but the effect only applies to the main hand, hence my suggestion that you incorporate this in. I'd further add in that you should have a %chance to proc off hand in your framework too, to allow for twf/itwf/gtwf/tempestI/tempestII modifications.

If you don't want to change what you've done, I don't really care, but you did ask for suggestions as to how to make what you're doing better.

Ah, indeed I misunderstood. I had been adding in vorpal effects by dividing their damage by 20 and adding as a regular proc, but now that I think of hit, regular proc is only added in 19 times instead of 20. So adding in vorpal is both more accurate and more user friendly, so I have modified the template and will update the OP.

Thanks for the input. I have family medical issues to deal with or I'd look into doing off hand stuff, maybe tomorrow or more likely the next day, no energy for it now.

Inouk
03-27-2013, 04:38 AM
There are so many variables you will need to consider, with that example you also need to include favoured/non- favoured enemy damage & kensai seeker.

Have you seen Absoluteomnicience's (sp?) DPS spreadsheet? It is quite comprehensive, and may give you a good base to start from.

I have not seen it, but freom the sounds of it it's not available anymore. Yes, it's easy to get lost in too many variables, so I try to keep it as generic as possible (0 fort, no FE, no multiple targets, no cleaves, etc).