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Glaceon2010
03-08-2013, 03:19 PM
Hello :D

I have started with this Cleric build I found:

http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=3052171&postcount=305

Am I right in thinking that this is a capable Cleric? One that can heal perfectly well, and also contribute to damage via two handed weapons? Or will it struggle in healing groups and raids? It has 18str/16con/14 wis to start, which seems a bit low on the wisdom side. Also, is 8 charisma going to be an issue for Divine Vitality/Radiant Servant charges?

I really want to be a Healer, but also contribute in other ways and be self-sufficient. I must admit, I did want to use a Mace/Sword and Shield, but apparently THW are much better DPS. Are shields mainly for caster/healer clerics? Do you think as a new Healer that I would be better going with a more Heal/Offensive Spell build, and, if so, could someone recommend an easy one to follow?

Btw, my main is a 20 Monk.

Kind regards.

Kinerd
03-08-2013, 05:33 PM
Contribute is a saucy, seductive word.

-Your #1 contribution to a decent group is focusing 100% on healing. This is also incredibly monotonous and unrewarding.
-The melee DPS you do will be maybe 50% of what a melee would do, heavily penalized by stopping meleeing to cast. This is pretty monotonous, but compared to 100% healing it is Six Flags. (Weapon style is unimportant. You'll do lousy DPS with any style.)
-Your #1 contribution to offense is Energy Drain or Divine Punishment. You don't have the DCs or spell palette to gainfully CC past about level 14 in difficult content, and in easy content CC is pointless.
-Kiting through Blade Barriers is fun, but the #1 way to dramatically reduce overall group DPS and make everyone hate you.

If you have never been a dedicated healer, I would make an offensive caster build as follows:

Feats
1 Toughness
3 Empower Healing
6 Heighten
9 Maximize
12 Spell Pen
15 Greater Spell Pen
18 your call
21 Epic Spell Pen
24 your call

Key Enhancements
Radiant Servant 2
Life Magic 4 (do not exceed 1/1 in the critical lines)
Smiting 4 (ditto)
Spell Pen 3

Again, the most critical contribution you can make is healing. If you ever find yourself faced with a decision between healing and casting an offensive spell, you have already blown it and should have healed. You can find any number of divine players who dragged a hapless PuG of newbs through Proof is in the Poison and are feeling their oats, telling you that one Soundburst will save you three heals, etc., then you end up at level 15 burning your SP on completely futile Cometfalls, totally disrupting aggro management, and coming back to the forums to get attaboys about that stupid pug that wanted a healer instead of a divine...

...except a healer would have gotten the quest done.

.

The time to branch out is not when things are going great, it's when things are going to go great. If you don't have the experience to see the future yet, stick with what's boring and effective. Games are supposed to be fun, yes, but while boring wins aren't fun per se, they are way more fun than frustrating losses.

marybee
03-08-2013, 07:19 PM
Speaking from a cleric's point of view, it is easier to heal as a cleric if you have lots of radiant bursts which means you want lots of turn undead. My level 20 has ended up with 15 unbuffed and without an epic destiny active. I don't have the extra turn undead feat, but my charisma is reasonably high. At level 21 now I can turn undead most undead at level.

What most people are looking for in a cleric is heals first and foremost. Survivability is all very well, but for group play other people need their heals. One of the down sides of people having more hit points is that clerics need to make the most use of spell power and of course any character who has a lot of hit points really ought to have good healing amp. The healing ability works both ways. Having said that... My cleric which is a TR, second life managed to solo heal a shroud at level with 1700 sp and no pots. It isn't all about the number of spell points it's about learning to use them at the right times and not being afraid to allow people to be less than 100% healed. Sometimes it has to be like that for the group to survive. :) Less stress, more fun.

Glaceon2010
03-08-2013, 07:20 PM
Thank you so much :)

I like how you have explained your views, and I think I will make an Offensive Caster Build, so that I can focus on healing at first and the odd offensive/crowd control spell, too.

Cheers.

PNellesen
03-08-2013, 07:45 PM
Hello :D

I have started with this Cleric build I found:

http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=3052171&postcount=305

Am I right in thinking that this is a capable Cleric? One that can heal perfectly well, and also contribute to damage via two handed weapons? Or will it struggle in healing groups and raids? It has 18str/16con/14 wis to start, which seems a bit low on the wisdom side.

First - you can't go wrong with any of tihocan's or Sirgog's builds :)

My first character was a variant of tihocan's build (the one that's referenced in the build you linked to), and he had no problems at all healing anything (raids, epics [when epics were EPIC], whatever). His melee was... not the best (to put it mildly) but it sufficed when he needed it.

Another option you could look at for Offensive Caster who can use martial weapons (Greatswords, greataxes, etc.) would be a Half-Elf Pure Cleric (Caster-focused) with fighter dilettante, assuming you have access to Half-Elf. I soloed one of those most of the way from 1 to 20 and he was VERY capable. (He's at 25 now and is not to be trifled with ;) ) An all-around good Cleric with the ability to grab almost any weapon he finds and be proficient with it, with a good SP pool and decent offensive casting abilities (once he gets a Wizard life under his belt, I'm hoping that goes from "decent" to "good")

I love playing clerics; you should have a lot of fun with whatever build you choose to run (and you'll NEVER have problems finding groups. Quite the opposite, usually :p )

EarlofPain
03-09-2013, 09:52 AM
In my experience finding a good group is worth a lot more than finding a good build. I tried to solo heal a Shroud run and ran out of spell points on the second portal. Yes I used combat spells because the Keeper was up and no one was attacking him. We went coterminous about two minutes later with 5 dead players. This was the first time I had ever even heard of coterminous.

For those of you who say it was because I killed the Keeper instead of keeping those 5 guys alive I'll accept the fact you don't want me in your group.

That being said the advice her is solid for 90% of the game/players. A cleric needs to focus on keeping his players active. Howwever in a good group you will have a lot of time when your players don't need heals. A LOT OF TIME. You have your choice to do nothing or swing a weapon that doesn't do much. Do whichever is more fun and keeps you playing.

marybee
03-09-2013, 11:28 AM
If you have maxed out damage on light spells, which my cleric has, then DP is always a good way to use up those extra sp. There are of course items that help with this. I use one for heals and one for light damage, it does require switching weapons when changing spells, but I end up using 50% less sp on heals that way and can max out light damage. I use the heal staff from the Harbringer (I think) chain and the Light staff form the chain that gets you to Eveningstar. The names escape me just at this moment and I don't have time to look them up, but perhaps someone else can off a link? They are a cleric's standard equipment if you have access to them.

unbongwah
03-09-2013, 11:46 AM
I have started with this Cleric build I found:

http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=3052171&postcount=305
That build as posted is really old. It predates Radiant Servant - notice Emp Heal is backloaded to lvl 15 or 18 - so it's missing some key features. The BC builds linked in my sig are slightly more recent, but still badly in need of an overhaul. :o

A more recent take on a caster-focused cleric is here (http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=4933374&postcount=3).

ThePrincipal
03-09-2013, 12:45 PM
I have a capped firsts life 28 pt melee cleric thats at least a year old.

i believe the starting stats where:
str 16/dex 8/ con 16/ wis 12/ int 8/ cha 12 , +5 lvls into strength

feats: great axe, toughness, power attack, quicken, empower healing, maximize, and improved crit

put skill point into balance

for raids usually will play the part as healer but for regular parties you can swing an axe all day long.

to do it again i would have went human for the extra feat, skill point, HV, healing amp and no penalty to cha. i would have started with 16 cha +2 tome +2 lvls to get base cha 20 for full divine +8 boost to damage and lost more turns.

Jingwei
03-09-2013, 10:55 PM
'Good melee damage' is largely dependent on what destiny you are running in, which is also limited by how much you want to grind out destinies.

For example, a DC focused casting cleric really needs to + DC from magister and Draconic, but it's a pretty long grind to get them.

So, you have to ask things like: 'how many destinies am I willing to grind out for this character?"

A cleric 19/fighter1 or cleric 18/fighter 2 build can probably do some reasonable melee damage if running in legendary or fury, but are you willing to grind unyielding 4 -> grandmaster 3 -> legendary? or even unyielding 4 -> grandmaster 3 -> legendary 4 -> shiradi 3 -> Fury ?

If you aren't willing to grind out the destinies, then a clonk running in grandmaster can probably do some useful stuff. Something like cleric 18/monk 2 or cleric 17/monk2/wizard1.

look something like:


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.12.01
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 20 Lawful Neutral Half-Elf Male
(2 Monk \ 17 Cleric \ 1 Wizard)
Hit Points: 263
Spell Points: 1152
BAB: 13\13\18\23
Fortitude: 15
Reflex: 11
Will: 22

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 14 14
Dexterity 15 17
Constitution 14 14
Intelligence 8 8
Wisdom 16 24
Charisma 10 10

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 11

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20)
Balance 6 9
Bluff 0 0
Concentration 6 26
Diplomacy 0 0
Disable Device n/a n/a
Haggle 0 0
Heal 3 9
Hide 2 3
Intimidate 0 0
Jump 5 5
Listen 3 7
Move Silently 2 3
Open Lock n/a n/a
Perform n/a n/a
Repair -1 -1
Search -1 -1
Spot 3 7
Swim 2 2
Tumble 3 4
Use Magic Device n/a n/a

Level 1 (Monk)
Skill: Balance (+4)
Skill: Concentration (+4)
Skill: Jump (+3)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Feat: (Half-Elf Dilettante) Half-Elf Dilettante: Rogue
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting


Level 2 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)


Level 3 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell


Level 4 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: WIS
Skill: Concentration (+1)


Level 5 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)


Level 6 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell


Level 7 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)


Level 8 (Monk)
Ability Raise: WIS
Skill: Balance (+2)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Stunning Fist


Level 9 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell


Level 10 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)


Level 11 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)


Level 12 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: WIS
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting


Level 13 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)


Level 14 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)


Level 15 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack


Level 16 (Wizard)
Ability Raise: WIS
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Heighten Spell


Level 17 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)


Level 18 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting


Level 19 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)


Level 20 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: WIS
Skill: Concentration (+1)



Gives you at least some DPS from sneak attack on stunned targets. Some free crowd control from stunning fist and Drifting Lotus. High Wis allows for landing destruction on things especailly if you drain them first. EiN with a good DC. Technically evasion, though getting enough reflex save to make it reliable would be a lot of effort.

Relatively low grind twists are endless faith, brace for impact, and legendary tactics

unbongwah
03-10-2013, 01:31 PM
For example, a DC focused casting cleric really needs to + DC from magister and Draconic, but it's a pretty long grind to get them.
"Need" is relative; it also depends on what content you plan to run. Epic Hard is a significantly lower threshold than Epic Elite; frankly I don't expect any first-lifer to be EE-worthy without significant gear, ED, and possibly TR grinding.

OP - offensive magic in DDO basically falls into 3 categories.


No-save single-target DPS spells: for clerics & FvS, this is the "holy trinity" of light spells - Nimbus of Light, Searing Light, and Divine Punishment. The beauty of these spells is they'll always land, regardless of your WIS etc., so you can always use them, no matter how you build your cleric. [There are a few golem types which are resistant to light dmg, but AFAIK no mobs are light-immune.] The drawbacks are they're not AoEs (so not so useful for fighting mobs) and as a cleric you won't have the SPs or light dmg of an AoV FvS (esp. a Silver Flame LASER-type build). But they're still good enough to worth investing in the Smiting line as much as you can afford, IMHO.
DC-based spells: these are usually direct-damage spells - both single-target and AoE - though some might also have a CC component (e.g., Cometfall). Early on you'll use Holy Smite & Flame Strike; but Cometfall & Blade Barrier are the real cornerstone of offensive divine casters. [One annoyance about divines is no Force enhs to boost BB; so that's part of why I take a wiz splash on the cleric build I linked above.] For these spells, you need to invest in high WIS, Heighten, and/or Spell Focuses. As a cleric you don't have a lot of feats to spare, so you usually have to choose one school to specialize in. I usually go with Evocation (BB, Implosion); but some prefer Necro (Destruction, Energy Drain) or I suppose you could go Conjuration if you really love Cometfall.
DC- and SR-based spells: here's where most of the CC and instakill spells fall (e.g., Greater Command, Implosion). The disadvantage to these spells is you have to work on boosting DCs and Spell Pen, which further strains your feats & enhs. But the advantage to them is...well, I don't have to explain the appeal of instakills, do I? :cool: Though the silver lining is not every mob has SR, even in epics, so these spells are still (sometimes) useful even if your Spell Pen is only so-so.

So part of being a caster-focused cleric is deciding which offensive spells you want to use and planning your build accordingly. E.g., the cleric 19 / wiz 1 I posted is built primarily around Blade Barrier & Implosion (though ofc she'll take advantage of other spells where appropriate), hence all the feats & enhs invested in Spell Pen & Evo DCs. [The wiz splash costs the capstone and -1 Spell Pen, but the extra feat & Force I enh more than make up for it, IMHO.] But I have other WIS-based cleric builds which ignore Spell Pen to focus feats on, e.g., melee DPS or survivability; e.g., I've got a dwarf cleric 18 / ftr 2 build with both Shield Masteries for the extra PRR + a bit more S&B melee DPS from doublestrike bonuses.

It's all about finding the right balance of tradeoffs, which is a big part of what keeps me interested in DDO. :)

Glaceon2010
03-10-2013, 06:05 PM
That build as posted is really old. It predates Radiant Servant - notice Emp Heal is backloaded to lvl 15 or 18 - so it's missing some key features. The BC builds linked in my sig are slightly more recent, but still badly in need of an overhaul. :o

A more recent take on a caster-focused cleric is here (http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=4933374&postcount=3).

Hey Unbongwah,

Can I ask why you put 14 STR and only 8 Cha on a Caster Cleric? I ask because I thought Cha dictated the number of turn undeads, and isn't that important? Do you need 14 base str as a caster cleric? I'm new, so I don't really know xD

Cheers.

AbyssalMage
03-10-2013, 06:29 PM
Hey Unbongwah,

Can I ask why you put 14 STR and only 8 Cha on a Caster Cleric? I ask because I thought Cha dictated the number of turn undeads, and isn't that important? Do you need 14 base str as a caster cleric? I'm new, so I don't really know xD

Cheers.

I am not Unbongwah :p but from my cleric I can say...

14 STR will help you out more than 14 CHR and the extra turns through every level of the game.

Remember, your Turn's regenerate every 2 minutes. The lvl 12 Aura lasts over a minute (1:36 of I remember correctly) and you have Bursts, wands, potions, and spell heals if you need more. So dumping CHR you still have 8 base + 2 tome + 6 item = 16 total charisma (Turns = 3 base + 3 from CHR bonus + 1 enhancement every 2 minutes) up to level 20 and then you gain another Turn with an upgraded CHR item.

Glaceon2010
03-10-2013, 06:32 PM
I am not Unbongwah :p but from my cleric I can say...

14 STR will help you out more than 14 CHR and the extra turns through every level of the game.

Remember, your Turn's regenerate every 2 minutes. The lvl 12 Aura lasts over a minute (1:36 of I remember correctly) and you have Bursts, wands, potions, and spell heals if you need more. So dumping CHR you still have 8 base + 2 tome + 6 item = 16 total charisma (Turns = 3 base + 3 from CHR bonus + 1 enhancement every 2 minutes) up to level 20 and then you gain another Turn with an upgraded CHR item.

Thank you :D I didn't know turns regenerated every 2 minutes on Clerics!

PNellesen
03-10-2013, 06:34 PM
Hey Unbongwah,

Can I ask why you put 14 STR and only 8 Cha on a Caster Cleric? I ask because I thought Cha dictated the number of turn undeads, and isn't that important? Do you need 14 base str as a caster cleric? I'm new, so I don't really know xD

Cheers.

Regarding low CHA, I usually only take about 10CHA on my clerics, and find that at higher levels that gives more Turn Undeads than I ever need, if you count things that give you lesser turning (which add 2 to the number of turns you have). I can't remember the last time I ran out of turns, except maybe in some really intense fights where I was spamming RS-I bursts.

(I'm pretty sure I know why 14STR as well, but I'll let ubongwah answer that ;) )

Edit: Ninja'd by AbyssalMage :p

unbongwah
03-10-2013, 08:03 PM
Can I ask why you put 14 STR and only 8 Cha on a Caster Cleric? I ask because I thought Cha dictated the number of turn undeads, and isn't that important? Do you need 14 base str as a caster cleric?
To what others have said: I don't mention in that post, but the idea is at early lvls that build relies on melee. The wiz splash lets you have Master's Touch (need +3 INT item or Fox's Cunning to cast); decent 2H weapon + base STR 14 + Divine Favor + Bull's STR or Divine Power gets you past the early levels until you get your better DPS spells.

Besides, getting Enfeebled while in heavy armor sucks with STR 8. :( Plus how will you carry back all your phat lewt?! :D

As for CHA, like the others said, you can boost the number of Turns you get thru CHA item, Extra Turning enhs, the Extra Turning feat (which my build takes @ lvl 6, then swaps out for Spell Pen before lvl 18), and Lesser Turning item (http://ddowiki.com/page/Lesser_Turning). All that plus TU regen (2 mins. to start, faster once you add Endless Turning from Unyielding Sentinel ED) should more than meet your TU needs.

Glaceon2010
03-11-2013, 08:35 AM
Thank you Unbongwah,

I am learning a lot from this thread. It's a shame it's titled Melee Cleric, because I definitely want to be a more caster oriented healer. I now understand why 14 STR is useful and how CHA and TU work. (Yay, I'm learning acronyms!)

Can I now ask about Feats? I know that Empower Heal makes your Heals stronger, except the ones that are based solely on a Clerics Level - i.e. Heal and Mass Heal - but what about Empower Spell and Maximise. I expect these increase spell power additively, but is having all three necessary? Maximise, I guess, is needed for DPS spells more than Healing, so that's a given, but could Empower (which you have taken from the Wizard Splash) be replaced with something else? Maybe Toughness or Mental Toughness? (Quick question here, too: does taking Toughness at later levels reduce the overall health gain?)

Kind regards.

Jingwei
03-11-2013, 12:09 PM
Empower works on all 'rolled' spells, i.e. anything not heal or mass heal.

Empower healing works on all the cure spells and heal and mass heal. In addition, it's a requirement for radiant servant, so all clerics should take it.

Maximize is useful both for increasing the damage of blade barrier and divine punishment, as well as increasing the healing provided by your radiant bursts (which can have empower healing, quicken, and maximize all applied for free).

The HP gain from toughness is the same total, no matter when you take the feat.

Standard caster cleric feats:

toughness (for access to the HP enhancements)

empower healing (required for radiant servant)
maximize (for use with radiant burst, divine punishment, blade barrier)
quicken (for use with radiant burst, mass heal, possibly other spells)
heighten (for use with a large number of spell: greater command, holy smite, cometfall, slay living, destruction, etc)

then, with remaining feats pick from:
spell penetration chain (to land almost all your offensive spells, except cometfall)
Necromancy focus feats (for use with slay living, destruction)
Evocation focus feats (for use with implosion, blade barrier)
empower (for use with blade barrier, divine punishment)

The choice between necromancy and evocation is generally to either focus on single target instakills (necromancy) or very cheap trash disposal via implosion (evocation).

It's generally not worth using maximize or empower on any of your other damaging spells, as that tends to be a very SP inefficient way of turning SP into damage.

unbongwah
03-11-2013, 02:05 PM
. . . could Empower (which you have taken from the Wizard Splash) be replaced with something else?
It can, but Emp boosts your radiant bursts, as does Max. So even if you never use Emp for your actual spells, whatever you replace it with better be worth more than +75 Spellpower to your bursts. So far, I haven't found anything I consider more valuable than that. If anything, I see adding Emp+Max to a cleric ASAP to be an SP saver, not an SP consumer; because you're adding +225 Spellpower "free" to your bursts, which means you have to use fewer SPs for heals, which means more SPs for other spells. And don't forget bursts harm undead as well as heal the party, which is why a properly-built Radiant Servant tops the kill counts in Deleras, Necro, etc. :D

(Quick question here, too: does taking Toughness at later levels reduce the overall health gain?)Nope, the amount of HPs the Toughness feat provides is always 2 + char lvl. But I usually take it by lvl 3 because that's when the racial Toughness enhs become available. A dead healer is a useless healer.

Therigar
03-11-2013, 02:40 PM
I've run the battle cleric all the way back when level cap was 16 and often out killed pure fighters and barbarians. It was a great soloing character and also able to heal thru the (then) limited number of raids that we had.

But, with power creep the idea of a battle cleric has slowly faded and I'm not much of a fan at the moment.

Part of the reason is that clerics can be powerful spell casters and contribute to damage in that way rather than by being in the melee action. From a non-cleric's point of view this means they are out of harm's way more often than not and so more able to heal the party's other members when it is tough going.

But, if you want to go the battle cleric route then the 19/1 isn't a bad choice. About the only thing that might be better would be 18/2 with paladin/monk/rogue for the 2 level splash. Of course, that depends on how much you value saving throws and/or evasion.

As far as the healing part goes, so long as you have mass cures and heals the group isn't going to care much. The added cleric levels are really about the spells that become available at the higher levels.

Arguably you can get by with only 3 of the 5 L9 spells -- Implosion, Mass Heal and any 1 of the others. Similar observations can be made about the lost L8 and L7 spells.

Battle clerics tend to use their healing bursts while in combat and hope that it is enough to keep the party alive until after the encounter. That is one approach.

The other is to use the blue bar from outside the melee and to use the bursts after the fight is over to bring everyone up to full/near full health.

One workable option is to investigate how many feats you need to be an effective Arcane Archer and to combine that with the blue bar spells in non-critical encounters. A lot of people insist on AA having every feat, but it can be quite effective as an add-on even without the full blown feat choices.

The advantage is that you now are outside the melee and contributing in both combat and spell damage while still able to monitor critical healing needs AND you are generally out of the most severe danger zone so relatively safe (which makes your group happier).

axel15810
03-11-2013, 08:25 PM
.

Ugh. As a long time cleric player I couldn't disagree more with most of the advice in this post.

@ OP, My 2 cents -

You can heal and fight at the same time, after some experience it will be second nature to burst and aura heal everyone. It's certainly not a matter of picking either healing or fighting/casting. Only in raids and some boss fights should you have to step in the back and drop mass heals.

You can definitely do more than 50% the melee damage of a similarly geared barb or fighter. With destiny's the gap is much closer than that. I haven't done the math, but I have a capped pure Kensei and a capped 17 Cleric/ 2 fighter / 1 wiz and once you have LD or FoTW capped, it's more like 75-85%. And around 90% the DPS of a paladin. And you will do more melee damage than similarly geared fighters and barbs without their destiny's capped. And all you need is a LIT2 and through levels 11-20 your melee DPS will be better than all but other TRs with tweak weapons.

I followed that Thilocan build you posted a few years ago for my first ever battle cleric. It's very very VERY out of date, and simply awful IMO. And I'm not a fan at all of generalist clerics. Having played one I think it's much better to either max WIS for DCs or dump WIS to the minimum. If I were you I'd google and find a better, more up to date build. Either go for casting or go for melee. I generally like to build my clerics for melee.

Here's my current build which fits my playstyle well...Horc 17/2 fighter/1 wiz FoTW with the following feats -

Tough
Power att
cleave
emp heal
max
IC slash
empower
G cleave
Quicken
THF
overwhelm crit
ITHF


full metas for excellent bursts/dots/BB, concentrating on radiant servant not spell points to heal. Basically max STR, dump WIS to the minimum for lvl 9 spells, rest into CON and some into CHA for a few more turns and DM2. Heals raids fine. Can switch to angel destiny and healbot raids if more SP is needed. But I find 1700 or so + bursts/aura more than plenty for most raids. Carry around heal scrolls for single target heals. Should almost never have to touch SP to heal during quests other than the occasional Oh Sh*t! heal.

Just something you could consider as an alternative to a generalist or a caster build.

Kinerd
03-12-2013, 03:57 PM
[There are a few golem types which are resistant to light dmg, but AFAIK no mobs are light-immune.]Epic Crateos inexplicably is. Apparently his designer has never experienced the horrors of sunlight bleaching of furniture even through windows.
You can heal and fight at the same time, after some experience it will be second nature to burst and aura heal everyone. It's certainly not a matter of picking either healing or fighting/casting. Only in raids and some boss fights should you have to step in the back and drop mass heals.As a long time philosopher, I must insist: you can only take one action in any given instant, and every action carries a duration. It goes without saying that you always have aura up, so I did not say it. Outside of aura, every decision to do something offensive (physical or magical) is necessarily a decision not to heal for X time. This X is surely less than a second, but just as surely a party member can die in that interval.
You can definitely do more than 50% the melee damage of a similarly geared barb or fighter. With destiny's the gap is much closer than that. I haven't done the math, but I have a capped pure Kensei and a capped 17 Cleric/ 2 fighter / 1 wiz and once you have LD or FoTW capped, it's more like 75-85%. And around 90% the DPS of a paladin. And you will do more melee damage than similarly geared fighters and barbs without their destiny's capped. And all you need is a LIT2 and through levels 11-20 your melee DPS will be better than all but other TRs with tweak weapons.You can also do much better DPS than a fighter single wielding a Club of the Holy Flame. Is that a relevant point?

And a brief anecdote. Once I was on a softball team that did not keep track of stats. Everyone hit .600. Then we started keeping track of stats. No one hit .600.

axel15810
03-12-2013, 09:30 PM
Epic Crateos inexplicably is. Apparently his designer has never experienced the horrors of sunlight bleaching of furniture even through windows.As a long time philosopher, I must insist: you can only take one action in any given instant, and every action carries a duration. It goes without saying that you always have aura up, so I did not say it. Outside of aura, every decision to do something offensive (physical or magical) is necessarily a decision not to heal for X time. This X is surely less than a second, but just as surely a party member can die in that interval.You can also do much better DPS than a fighter single wielding a Club of the Holy Flame. Is that a relevant point?

And a brief anecdote. Once I was on a softball team that did not keep track of stats. Everyone hit .600. Then we started keeping track of stats. No one hit .600.

A quickened burst takes almost no time and aura of course heals passively so yeah it's basically at the same time. The burst will take away a swing or two but it's only a matter of keeping one eye on the redbars and the other on attacking and just bursting when needed. I see what you're saying but I'm just trying to get the point across that you don't have to put hardly any thought or focus onto healing when you get good at it. It's just becomes second nature to hit that burst button when the redbars go down. You don't have to choose between being a "healer" or a "divine"

And I did say similarly geared barb or fighter in my OP. Comparing the different weapons was just getting my point across that the fighter/barb prestige enhancements can be made up with by gear and destinies.

Therigar
03-12-2013, 10:42 PM
and a brief anecdote. Once i was on a softball team that did not keep track of stats. Everyone hit .600. Then we started keeping track of stats. No one hit .600.

:eek:

Zorth
03-12-2013, 11:35 PM
melee clerics are what this game was in the first place with pnp.

The problem with an mmo is it lets melee, (Fighters and Barbarians), zerg, thinking they are invunerable. Then the real melee and damage, which are clerics and favored souls, chase down these so called fighters and barbarians who think they are doing the party a favor when they are not, just to try to keep them healed! Let's face it! Unless the Fighter/Barbarian in the group has self healing they suck! And are better off not being with the party!

They do not look to see if the cleric is within range to heal because they are zerging, because this game lets them, and then bam, pow dead.

In PNP it was always easy to see if zerging was not an option because turns took hours instead of seconds. This game and clerics are a far cry of what pnp is because it is a video game.

Clerics can be melee and own and fighters need to be able to self heal in this game or they are stupid to play, need to be able to self heal in this game.

Clerics can take over this game and if the entire server was clerics, this game, (DDO), would be owned overnight.

Favored soul let us not forget also could own the game overnight as well.

There are only a few people in this game that understand what it means to be a fighter/barbarian and clerics and favored souls are easier to play as melees because they can self heal very easily!

A true fighter/Barbarian in this game understands not to zerg and stay with the party.

I play as a Fighter in this game, because it is the hardest class to do it right, otherwise I would be bored. All other classes IMO are too easy and have the means to be self reliant more because this game makes it that way, where as Fighters base their skill on talent behind the keyboard and feat selection second to none. Paladins on the other hand stink up our BIO's and only a few of us in a million can play them well. cough!

Barbarians are hard to play well, but they are a needed for hp for future TR lives, but the party knows to babysit them already and they get heals more often than a newborn gets bottles and most players who play barbarians do not take them seriously.

P.S. If I ever play a cleric or favored soul I will solo all the way to 20 and be done with it and TR withen minutes of obtaining level 20. I hate healing. I will not need a party because cleric and favored soul builds are powerful enough in this game, which is DDO, to own it on their own.

The problem I think I would face as a Cleric or FS would be way too many tells per day asking me to join a group because they think they are not able to complete a quest without a, "healer", when the healing capability is withen themselves if they took a moment to buy potions and stop zerging so much.

Clerics and FS need to be less called upon as healers and more accepted as melee and let them use their spell points more often for dps more often than healing IMO.

EllisDee37
03-13-2013, 03:41 AM
It goes without saying that you always have aura up, so I did not say it.hehheh.