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TheGamingThor
03-04-2013, 04:11 PM
I have a few toons in the lower levels, and I was wondering, what is up with lacerating? In the AH, weapons with lacerating go for generally 20-30kpp more than those with the same damage (I saw a pure good frost long sword and bought it for 2kpp, and saw a +2 long sword of laceration go for 20kpp). Plus, it doesn't work on undead. So, yeah. If you can help me out, that'b great. Thanks!

LOOON375
03-04-2013, 04:16 PM
Lacerating absolutely rocks during the low levels against most non undead. Hard to beat.

But you don't have to have it. If the prices are too high for you on the AH, just use what you find, and upgrade with what you find as you go.

The AH isn't the place to use in regard to determining what works better.

LordMond63
03-04-2013, 05:00 PM
I have it on a repeating crossbow on my Artificer, and I absolutely love it. I've not done the math, but it sure seems like it's worth at least another die if not die and a half of damage to foes that are not immune to bleeding. Since I had messed around with a longsword with laceration on it with another character and saw the nice added damage it did, I had no problem with shelling out some extra plat when I saw a level-suitable repeater on the market.

I'd counsel a bit of patience; chances are that someone will put one on the AH with a modest premium.....eventually.

bruener
03-04-2013, 05:10 PM
its hard to beat in low to mid lvls on fleshies. keep checking the AH. You can find good prices if your looking often. found a flaming burst khopesh of lacerating for 10k and scorching wraps which are flaming burst of lacerating for 5k and that is 4ml. hard to beat those wraps at 4th lvl.

decease
03-04-2013, 06:01 PM
you do have better choice.. in some ways... there are two other prefix which i find to be even/better then lacerating

first is holy.. we are all know most of the early game monster are evil.. beside those rat and spiders.. but those shouldn't give you any major problems..

second is screaming.. personally i like screaming better since it damage everything, and i hardly find anything that resist sonic damage early game...

p.s. if you craft, you can craft these ml 1 with master crafter seal I(whatever itscalled, a shard made by house c 150 favor shop item)

palmate
03-04-2013, 06:33 PM
I think it all falls back to the Min Level.

I think the items in question are light blue framed, correct. I don't think that is just for Lacerating, it is indicating that it is a rare item - in other words it has a lower min level than other items of comparable power. I have seen some of the light blue framed items with riptide on them with like min level 3 or 4, it is mostly high priced due to the early levels you can use it in.

Palmate

shadereaper33
03-04-2013, 06:38 PM
you do have better choice.. in some ways... there are two other prefix which i find to be even/better then lacerating

first is holy.. we are all know most of the early game monster are evil.. beside those rat and spiders.. but those shouldn't give you any major problems..

second is screaming.. personally i like screaming better since it damage everything, and i hardly find anything that resist sonic damage early game...

p.s. if you craft, you can craft these ml 1 with master crafter seal I(whatever itscalled, a shard made by house c 150 favor shop item)

um, lacerating is a suffix.

droid327
03-04-2013, 06:50 PM
you do have better choice.. in some ways... there are two other prefix which i find to be even/better then lacerating

first is holy.. we are all know most of the early game monster are evil.. beside those rat and spiders.. but those shouldn't give you any major problems..

second is screaming.. personally i like screaming better since it damage everything, and i hardly find anything that resist sonic damage early game...

p.s. if you craft, you can craft these ml 1 with master crafter seal I(whatever itscalled, a shard made by house c 150 favor shop item)

Except Lacerating A) is a suffix, not a prefix, and B) is not craftable...

Bleed as a prefix is 1d8, while Lacerating is equivalent to 2d6...so, all things otherwise being equal, Lacerating is the best low-level suffix in terms of DPS and versatility.

Holy of Bleed is great for any low- to mid-level evil non-undead, and would be your craftable option and probably better than any lootgen that isnt Holy of Lacerating. You'd want to also carry an undead beater (bludgeoning Holy of Undead Bane, probably) and a neutral beater (Screaming of Bleed), and you'd be covered for everything except maybe Constructs and Elementals (which are neutral and immune to Bleed).

Holy of Pure Good sacrifices 1 average damage (1d6 vs 1d8) per hit, but you can use it on anything that isnt Neutral...that and a Screaming of Pure Good basically covers all your bases, if you're Good aligned, until you want to start messing with Greater Banes. PG will damage everything since we dont fight many Good-aligned mobs, Holy for Evil and Screaming for Neutrals.

sandypaws
03-04-2013, 08:12 PM
you'd be covered for everything except maybe Constructs and Elementals (which are neutral and immune to Bleed).



You sure? I could've sworn I was hitting elementals and oozes with bleed last time I TRed.

AbyssalMage
03-04-2013, 08:32 PM
You sure? I could've sworn I was hitting elementals and oozes with bleed last time I TRed.
In the most recent patch they started fixing this. It isn't fully implemented but Elementals are now becoming immune :(

Before the patch, the only thing lacerating didn't work on were undead. Sense the patch, Some Earth Elementals, Fire Elementals, and Air Elementals became immune but not all. I think they have to go in and set the immunity field for each monster type; that's why not every one is immune ATM. That or Turbine has no rhyme or reason and they decided some Elementals can bleed and others can't.

That being said, the best weapon I have found is Holy Burst of Lacerating. Now I just need to sell it :) If it only had Silver or another metaline property. One day I hope to find a +1 Force Repeating X-box of Lacerating. That will be the ultimate x-bow for an Artificer leveling (Maybe).

decease
03-04-2013, 11:18 PM
um, lacerating is a suffix.




Except Lacerating A) is a suffix, not a prefix, and B) is not craftable...

Bleed as a prefix is 1d8, while Lacerating is equivalent to 2d6...so, all things otherwise being equal, Lacerating is the best low-level suffix in terms of DPS and versatility.

Holy of Bleed is great for any low- to mid-level evil non-undead, and would be your craftable option and probably better than any lootgen that isnt Holy of Lacerating. You'd want to also carry an undead beater (bludgeoning Holy of Undead Bane, probably) and a neutral beater (Screaming of Bleed), and you'd be covered for everything except maybe Constructs and Elementals (which are neutral and immune to Bleed).

Holy of Pure Good sacrifices 1 average damage (1d6 vs 1d8) per hit, but you can use it on anything that isnt Neutral...that and a Screaming of Pure Good basically covers all your bases, if you're Good aligned, until you want to start messing with Greater Banes. PG will damage everything since we dont fight many Good-aligned mobs, Holy for Evil and Screaming for Neutrals.

ah.. sorry sorta mess up... i usually craft holy/screaming first so i assume they are prefix =P

anywayz.. my point is that lacerating isn't the best of choice at low level. because low content do have a good amount of undead, elemental or construct~~ at least to me, a screaming pure good weapon is way better then a lacerating weapon.. (since i don't have quick draw.. sorta slow changing gear in combat..)

plus the fact you can craft them, and use em starting from level 1..

FranOhmsford
03-04-2013, 11:37 PM
Um?

Maybe I've been under-pricing then

Cos I never put Lacerating weapons on the AH for more than 4-5k plat!

Yes they always sell BUT I deliberately avoice putting most weapons on the AH for more than 10k at most Cos I just get em back in the mail!

When you say they go - Are you considering that the Timer has simply run out and the Poster has got em back in the mail - Meaning they didn't sell!

20k plus for Lacerating is in my opinion a complete Joke!
I don't get that for Holy of Pure Good!
I don't get that for Adamantine Smiting weapons
I don't get that for Silver weapons {Base items rdy for crafting!}.

fco-karatekid
03-05-2013, 12:15 AM
I think it all falls back to the Min Level.

I think the items in question are light blue framed, correct. I don't think that is just for Lacerating, it is indicating that it is a rare item - in other words it has a lower min level than other items of comparable power. I have seen some of the light blue framed items with riptide on them with like min level 3 or 4, it is mostly high priced due to the early levels you can use it in.

Palmate

I somehow lucked into dropping a riptide of lacerating weapon somewhere lordsmarch-ish and used it till Cannith on trash. And I agree, it's all about low levels. And regarding the other posts in this thread: yes, lacerating is working on a lot of things(r).

Lonnbeimnech
03-05-2013, 12:18 AM
You sure? I could've sworn I was hitting elementals and oozes with bleed last time I TRed.

It no longer works on elementals.

It still works on oozes.

donfilibuster
03-05-2013, 12:32 AM
They are pricy since they are rarer, e.g. than holy, which can also be crafted.
Maybe not all weapons sell well, some types could be found cheaper.

Holy doesn't work well on spiders/animals/neutral humans in the early levels, while lacerating does.

Ryiah
03-05-2013, 01:13 AM
I have a few toons in the lower levels, and I was wondering, what is up with lacerating?

You are comparing a weapon with only a suffix to a weapon with both a prefix/suffix. But what about a weapon that has more than Lacerating? Frost of Pure Good has both prefix and suffix occupied whereas Lacerating is only suffix. I have a +1 Riptide Quarterstaff of Lacerating on one character. That is Frost (1d6), Tidal (1d4), Bleed (1d8), and Slicing (1d6).

CarpeNoctu
03-05-2013, 01:26 AM
I have a few toons in the lower levels, and I was wondering, what is up with lacerating? In the AH, weapons with lacerating go for generally 20-30kpp more than those with the same damage (I saw a pure good frost long sword and bought it for 2kpp, and saw a +2 long sword of laceration go for 20kpp). Plus, it doesn't work on undead. So, yeah. If you can help me out, that'b great. Thanks!

Lacerating is absolutely NOT overrated... Just over priced.

Slicing and bleeding will actually work against most things in DDO (not the undead, of course) and will take down most enemies faster than pure good. Unfortunately, the majority of people who are posting Lacerating weapons on the AH appear to be under the impression that it's some massively rare named item, so they're charging WAY too much for it... Of course, it doesn't help that people continue showing their willingness to pay those prices, giving no incentive to lower them.

sirgog
03-05-2013, 01:47 AM
Lacerating is underpriced on Khyber.

When 500k PP is your expected loot value from ONE run of EH Tor (an hour in a mediocre PUG and less in most groups), a tenth of that is a trivial price to pay for a weapon that is absurdly good for 4-6 levels and will remain useful after that.

FranOhmsford
03-05-2013, 02:40 AM
Lacerating is underpriced on Khyber.

When 500k PP is your expected loot value from ONE run of EH Tor (an hour in a mediocre PUG and less in most groups), a tenth of that is a trivial price to pay for a weapon that is absurdly good for 4-6 levels and will remain useful after that.

For Players with characters in the Epic Levels ONLY!

Newbies are the majority of players BUYING Lacerating weps on the AH NOT Epic Level Players!

If somebody wants to pay whatever it costs to get a nice Twink weapon then that player is going to do so BUT AH prices should not be dictated by him/her!

AH Prices should be dictated by the seller! We need more people to step up and price gear more realistically so that those who over-charge {By ridiculous amounts if the OP is right} keep getting their items back in the mail every 3 days!

jskinner937
03-05-2013, 02:41 AM
ah.. sorry sorta mess up... i usually craft holy/screaming first so i assume they are prefix =P

anywayz.. my point is that lacerating isn't the best of choice at low level. because low content do have a good amount of undead, elemental or construct~~ at least to me, a screaming pure good weapon is way better then a lacerating weapon.. (since i don't have quick draw.. sorta slow changing gear in combat..)

plus the fact you can craft them, and use em starting from level 1..

You dont carry more than one weapon?

I agreee holy of lacerrating is a really nice combo or x of lacerrating for most trash, but still carry a dummy beater (if you need it) and a crafted holy of undead bane. I usually use these until level 8ish. Some lacerrating are no ml btw. Look for those blue border items in your end rewards.

sirgog
03-05-2013, 03:28 AM
For Players with characters in the Epic Levels ONLY!

Newbies are the majority of players BUYING Lacerating weps on the AH NOT Epic Level Players!

If somebody wants to pay whatever it costs to get a nice Twink weapon then that player is going to do so BUT AH prices should not be dictated by him/her!

AH Prices should be dictated by the seller! We need more people to step up and price gear more realistically so that those who over-charge {By ridiculous amounts if the OP is right} keep getting their items back in the mail every 3 days!

I love it when people post items way, way under their value on the AH.

I buy them, repost them at sensible prices, and put the difference toward my next EE item purchase.

Got a dirt cheap Meteoric weapon the other week (100k PP) that was insta-reposted at nearly ten times the price. My profit was half what I paid for the EE Crystalline Scepter my caster now uses.


I look forward to taking advantage of more people with no understanding of game economics in future.

FranOhmsford
03-05-2013, 03:49 AM
I love it when people post items way, way under their value on the AH.

I buy them, repost them at sensible prices, and put the difference toward my next EE item purchase.

Got a dirt cheap Meteoric weapon the other week (100k PP) that was insta-reposted at nearly ten times the price. My profit was half what I paid for the EE Crystalline Scepter my caster now uses.


I look forward to taking advantage of more people with no understanding of game economics in future.

100k Plat maybe DIRT CHEAP to you BUT that's more than most of my characters have on them!

There's no way whatsoever I'd pay anything like 100k plat for a None Named weapon!
The days of 3-500k Holy of Pure Good weapons are long behind us thank goodness - These are regularly seen on the AH for 5-15k plat now!

And I'm NOT talking about one person seeing an item on the AH for 20k and simply putting their exact same weapon on for 5k!
I'm talking about that person putting theirs up for 15k, Another putting one up for 14k, Another for 12k and so on!

If that Meteoric Weapon had been on the AH for 1 Million Plat I doubt you'd have even considered buying it - The person you're taking advantage of is NOT the guy you gave 66k plat {after the AH took it's cut} BUT the guy who paid such a silly price for it!

Gremmlynn
03-05-2013, 03:56 AM
100k Plat maybe DIRT CHEAP to you BUT that's more than most of my characters have on them!

There's no way whatsoever I'd pay anything like 100k plat for a None Named weapon!
The days of 3-500k Holy of Pure Good weapons are long behind us thank goodness - These are regularly seen on the AH for 5-15k plat now!

And I'm NOT talking about one person seeing an item on the AH for 20k and simply putting their exact same weapon on for 5k!
I'm talking about that person putting theirs up for 15k, Another putting one up for 14k, Another for 12k and so on!

If that Meteoric Weapon had been on the AH for 1 Million Plat I doubt you'd have even considered buying it - The person you're taking advantage of is NOT the guy you gave 66k plat {after the AH took it's cut} BUT the guy who paid such a silly price for it!70k plat, the AH cut is 30%, not 34%.

Also, prices are set to whatever it is that whomever is willing to pay the most for the item is willing to pay. That's simply supply and demand in action.

SirValentine
03-05-2013, 04:33 AM
The days of 3-500k Holy of Pure Good weapons are long behind us thank goodness - These are regularly seen on the AH for 5-15k plat now!


Yeah, anything I can craft for myself, I'm not going to pay much for. Which is part of why Lacerating is valuable.



If that Meteoric Weapon had been on the AH for 1 Million Plat I doubt you'd have even considered buying it - The person you're taking advantage of is NOT the guy you gave 66k plat {after the AH took it's cut} BUT the guy who paid such a silly price for it!


How is it even possible to take advantage of someone on the AH? If they don't want it, or it's too expensive, they don't buy it.

sirgog
03-05-2013, 04:41 AM
100k Plat maybe DIRT CHEAP to you BUT that's more than most of my characters have on them!

There's no way whatsoever I'd pay anything like 100k plat for a None Named weapon!
The days of 3-500k Holy of Pure Good weapons are long behind us thank goodness - These are regularly seen on the AH for 5-15k plat now!

And I'm NOT talking about one person seeing an item on the AH for 20k and simply putting their exact same weapon on for 5k!
I'm talking about that person putting theirs up for 15k, Another putting one up for 14k, Another for 12k and so on!

If that Meteoric Weapon had been on the AH for 1 Million Plat I doubt you'd have even considered buying it - The person you're taking advantage of is NOT the guy you gave 66k plat {after the AH took it's cut} BUT the guy who paid such a silly price for it!

Uh - how am I taking advantage of them? I'm taking utter rubbish (platinum) in huge quantities for an irreplaceable, medium power item.

You overvaluing platinum does not mean platinum is worth something.

FranOhmsford
03-05-2013, 04:47 AM
Uh - how am I taking advantage of them? I'm taking utter rubbish (platinum) in huge quantities for an irreplaceable, medium power item.

You overvaluing platinum does not mean platinum is worth something.

Really? Then try buying anything off the AH without it.
Or off In-Game Vendors.

An irreplaceable medium power item?
I think the word Medium there invalidates irreplaceable!

Ivan_Milic
03-05-2013, 05:29 AM
Do you think this falchion is better than Carnifex?
Added icy burst to it too.



http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/3600/ddo.png

Ryiah
03-05-2013, 06:10 AM
Do you think this falchion is better than Carnifex?

If I'm not mistaken it should depend on how good your base damage is. I would think Carnifex would win for practically any melee though.

jskinner937
03-05-2013, 06:41 AM
Use that until you can wield carniflex.

voodoogroves
03-05-2013, 07:36 AM
Do you think this falchion is better than Carnifex?
Added icy burst to it too.



http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/3600/ddo.png

That should rock from levels 1-3, and be useful after. Until ...


Use that until you can wield carniflex.
... this

Feralthyrtiaq
03-05-2013, 08:50 AM
Cannith Crafting offered a great way to craft lower level weapons with a moderate investment in crafting levels.

Holy of Bleeding easily craftable with crafting levels 50 or below.


I could be mistaken but have a feeling the Dev that created Cannith Crafting is a different Dev than the one who implemented the New Suffix/Prefixs like Lacerating etc etc.


This leads me to believe that things like Lacerating were implemented to *try* and outshine Cannith Crafted Items.

I wouldn't spend the Plat on a low level Lacerating Item. You will more than likely find one in chest or end reward list that *might* be good for a couple levels or BTA and useful for TRs.

The 20k-30k would be better spent leveling Cannith Crafting especially if you are planning multiple lives or roll up lots of alts.

You will get a lot more mileage out of Cannith Crafting. It's worth every click I clicked as I slowly leveled it over time collecting essences during multiple character lives.

My Arty Crafter is at 135-142 in each school and my 11th life toon is at 44, 48, 44 (for convienience to minimize character swaps)

I started when it was implemented and was patient leveling it at lunch time or in the few minute before work in the morning when I don't have time to get into a quest.

It's so worth it....

Just too bad it's not getting much Dev attention these days.

The NERF of Attack Bonus and Stability min levels leads me to believe the current Dev doesn't like the system /shrug

fyrst.grok
03-05-2013, 08:51 AM
Lacerating is underpriced on Khyber.

When 500k PP is your expected loot value from ONE run of EH Tor (an hour in a mediocre PUG and less in most groups), a tenth of that is a trivial price to pay for a weapon that is absurdly good for 4-6 levels and will remain useful after that.

More like 50k'ish for non-haggle toons... At least thats what I get on my monk.
Or do you imply selling all scales, named items and looting every pile of gold too?

Ivan_Milic
03-05-2013, 08:57 AM
More like 50k'ish for non-haggle toons... At least thats what I get on my monk.
Or do you imply selling all scales, named items and looting every pile of gold too?

Well he did say loot value.
SO I think he is implying everything you get there.
Pile of gold also drops augments.



That should rock from levels 1-3, and be useful after. Until ...


... this


Even with icy burst on it?

Miow
03-05-2013, 08:57 AM
Lacerating is great for low levels! Crafting for low level weapons is good but can't be icy bursted...

I have several twink items as well as a pair of Icy bursted +1 Holy of Lacerating handwraps and they are only ml6 in the bank if i ever tr my monk...Lacerating is one the best low level twink suffix in the game.

zarthak
03-05-2013, 09:00 AM
i love lacerating i did pay 50k for + 1 flaming burst wraps of lacerating ML 4 that i icyed. insanely good

fyrst.grok
03-05-2013, 09:36 AM
Well he did say loot value.
SO I think he is implying everything you get there.
Pile of gold also drops augments.


I probably misread - thanks for the catch :)

Loromir
03-05-2013, 09:53 AM
AH Prices should be dictated by the seller!


That is not basic capitalism...Prices are dictated by the buyer. A seller can only offer a price, the buyer sets the actual price by making a purchase.

Matuse
03-05-2013, 09:55 AM
Even with icy burst on it?

Assuming a combination of power attack, strength, orc ship buff, etc, and this character has a base +18 damage bonus, and +2 seeker (Cove trinket...there's not a lot of seeker available until the Bloodstone). No Improved Critical.

Carnifex: 1d12+2, 17-20x3.
Icy Burst Falchion of Lacerating: 2d4+1 +1d4 Slicing +1d8 Bleeding +1d6 Frost +1d10 Icy Burst

Carnifex:
Average Hit Damage
26.5 = 21-32(Weapon) + 0(Bonus)

Average Crit Damage
85.5 = 69-102(Weapon) + 0(Bonus)

Final Average Attack
36.98 = 36.98 + 0

Falchion:
Average Hit Damage
34.5 = 21-27(Weapon) + 10.5(Bonus)

Average Crit Damage
68 = 46-58(Weapon) + 16(Bonus)

Final Average Attack
37.8 = 27 + 10.8


So the Falchion slightly outdamages. When the base damage bonus reaches 22, Carnifex starts to pull ahead (at 22, the difference is about 3/100th of a point of damage).

droid327
03-05-2013, 10:32 AM
i love lacerating i did pay 50k for + 1 flaming burst wraps of lacerating ML 4 that i icyed. insanely good

Bet everyone who icied anything this year is wishing augments came out before Risia....

Imagine flaming burst wraps of lacerating with icy burst AND a red slot :)

Sure it'd bump it up another +4 ML, but do you really need all that help between 4 and 8?

AbyssalMage
03-05-2013, 11:47 AM
A simple +1 Lacerating weapon lasts you until lvl 4. (levels 1,2-4)

+1 Element + lacerating lasts you until 6 (If you can't wait) (levels 4-6)

+1 Burst + lacerating (Levels 6-18)

Add an undead beater (Bludgeoning ghost touch + lesser? undead bane) and you have the only 2 weapons you need until 10. At 10 buy your smiter's and Holy weapons for specific trash and you are golden to 18. Side note: Delera's is the only chain where you need a 3rd weapon thanks to the Ghostly Skeletons.

Now, if you have Greensteel(sp?), or happen upon better, more specif weapons before 18 great, but lacerating is a nice bridge before those named items. And as I previously (in this post) mentioned, it looks like Elementals are gaining immunity to Lacerating so it may be losing some power. But for Suffix, it is probably the most powerful one pre-lvl 10.

HungarianRhapsody
03-05-2013, 12:09 PM
100k Plat maybe DIRT CHEAP to you BUT that's more than most of my characters have on them!


Everything is worth what its purchaser will pay for it.

CivIV is the source of all knowledge worth knowing.

sirgog
03-05-2013, 04:20 PM
A simple +1 Lacerating weapon lasts you until lvl 4. (levels 1,2-4)

+1 Element + lacerating lasts you until 6 (If you can't wait) (levels 4-6)

+1 Burst + lacerating (Levels 6-18)

Add an undead beater (Bludgeoning ghost touch + lesser? undead bane) and you have the only 2 weapons you need until 10. At 10 buy your smiter's and Holy weapons for specific trash and you are golden to 18. Side note: Delera's is the only chain where you need a 3rd weapon thanks to the Ghostly Skeletons.

Now, if you have Greensteel(sp?), or happen upon better, more specif weapons before 18 great, but lacerating is a nice bridge before those named items. And as I previously (in this post) mentioned, it looks like Elementals are gaining immunity to Lacerating so it may be losing some power. But for Suffix, it is probably the most powerful one pre-lvl 10.

That's overkill.

1-3: Random garbage. +2, etc. Not worth twinking here - just use the best you loot, the time saved by improving equipment is less than the time taken acquiring +1 elemental weapons.
4-11: Carnifex, crafted +1 Holy of Undead Bane blunt, and +1 elemental of lacerating. (Carnifex for things with enough HP that a crit from it is not massive overkill, +1 elemental of lacerating for things with less HP as Carnifex is actually bad on those. I use a BtA quarterstaff for the undead beater).
12+: Greensteel if available. Otherwise heroic Gianthold weapons as soon as you can wield them (13 or 14 or so).

Dawnsfire
03-05-2013, 05:15 PM
I collected a bunch of Lacerating and other lootgen weapons prior to the ice games to burst them. If it was not for the Icy Burst recipes I would stick to Cannith Crafting for lowbies.

Ivan_Milic
03-05-2013, 08:13 PM
That's overkill.

1-3: Random garbage. +2, etc. Not worth twinking here - just use the best you loot, the time saved by improving equipment is less than the time taken acquiring +1 elemental weapons.
4-11: Carnifex, crafted +1 Holy of Undead Bane blunt, and +1 elemental of lacerating. (Carnifex for things with enough HP that a crit from it is not massive overkill, +1 elemental of lacerating for things with less HP as Carnifex is actually bad on those. I use a BtA quarterstaff for the undead beater).
12+: Greensteel if available. Otherwise heroic Gianthold weapons as soon as you can wield them (13 or 14 or so).

How can it be overkill?
It doesnt have certain amount of dmg it will do so you have to be careful when and with what you gonna crit.
If it kills mob with 100 dmg or 50 dmg hit it doesnt matter,it did the job,killed the mob.

Jingwei
03-06-2013, 12:12 AM
That's overkill.

1-3: Random garbage. +2, etc. Not worth twinking here - just use the best you loot, the time saved by improving equipment is less than the time taken acquiring +1 elemental weapons.
4-11: Carnifex, crafted +1 Holy of Undead Bane blunt, and +1 elemental of lacerating. (Carnifex for things with enough HP that a crit from it is not massive overkill, +1 elemental of lacerating for things with less HP as Carnifex is actually bad on those. I use a BtA quarterstaff for the undead beater).
12+: Greensteel if available. Otherwise heroic Gianthold weapons as soon as you can wield them (13 or 14 or so).

Looks like the new and improved Nightblade (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Nightblade) will beat out the carnifex.

Some of the other revised weapons are probably worth a look too.
Does anyone know if the sword of the thirty got changed?

droid327
03-06-2013, 02:42 AM
How can it be overkill?
It doesnt have certain amount of dmg it will do so you have to be careful when and with what you gonna crit.
If it kills mob with 100 dmg or 50 dmg hit it doesnt matter,it did the job,killed the mob.

Because if it hits 9 times for mediocre (non-crit) damage, and then once for massive, massive damage that kills the mob, then you've wasted several rounds of combat. You dont get to carry over the extra damage to the next mob.

Conversely, if you had a weapon with more consistent damage (ie, not entirely crit-based), you might end the fight in 5 or 6 rounds, rather than 10, even though the average damage is lower in the long run, because you arent counting all that "extra" damage you're doing.

The advantages of Carnifex become more practical the longer a fight lasts, when you're more likely to make full use of all that bonus damage you get when you crit.

Ryiah
03-06-2013, 03:02 AM
Looks like the new and improved Nightblade (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Nightblade) will beat out the carnifex.

Carnifex can be used earlier and is BtA though. It would have to easily out perform the Carnifex for me to justify farming Tempest Spine for it.

Jingwei
03-06-2013, 04:38 AM
The nightblade by itself is roughly equal damage to the carnifex, but adding two ML 8 red elemental augments to it gives it roughly a +4 damage per swing advantage.

So not only would you have to farm up a nightblade, you'd have to then turn around and spend for two ML8 elemental damage augments.

Thankfully, I came across it while hunting for a cloak of invisibility.

Todkaninchen
03-11-2013, 05:41 PM
I have a few toons in the lower levels, and I was wondering, what is up with lacerating? In the AH, weapons with lacerating go for generally 20-30kpp more than those with the same damage (I saw a pure good frost long sword and bought it for 2kpp, and saw a +2 long sword of laceration go for 20kpp). Plus, it doesn't work on undead. So, yeah. If you can help me out, that'b great. Thanks!

Assume you have a plain +1 long sword.

Base damage 1d8 +1 or an average (non-critical) of 5.5 pts per hit.

Adding lacerating for most living enemies (1d8 bleed + 1d4 slicing):

Base damage 1d8 +1 or an average (non-critical) of 5.5 pts per hit
Bleed damage 1d8 or an average (non-critical) of 4.5 pts per hit
Slice damage 1d4 or an average (non-critical) of 2.5 pts per hit
For a total (non-critical) per hit of: 12.5 pts per hit.

You more than doubled your damage with the suffix and you're doing most of your damage (ignoring STR mods) with the suffix. Most other suffixes (available at low levels) don't directly add much damage or may do it only on criticals. Add to the fact you can get a lacerating weapon with a damage producing prefix at a decently low level, like holy (avg damage goes to : 19.5 pts per hit non-critical vs. living evil targets) or an elemental (avg damage goes to : 16 pts per hit non-critical) you're doing a lot of damage in a less resisted way at a low level.

If you're stuck with a dagger for some reason, the difference between a dagger (1d4 base damage) with the same procs as a longsword, say a +1 <elemental> longsword of lacerating is only 2 pts less or 14 vs. 16 per non-critical hit.

At higher levels--with some of the combos you can get on weapons that rely on critical and/or the effects of seeker and improved critical feats--it may lose some of it's luster, but for low-levels it's nice.

The crafted versions of Holy/Bleed or Elemental/Bleed give up 1d4 slicing damage (avg 2.5 pts per hit) but have the advantage of letting you max your enhancement level on the weapon (+1/+2/+3/etc.) to fit your character level more and--with limited availability and the randomness of combos--may be a better choice if you can't find the ideal combo of prefix/lacerating and have the crafting levels.

That said, if you did like I did and festival frosted a +2 Shock Shortbow of Lacerating (min level 4 or 6, I can't remember which) for my bard's low levels and icy bursted a +4 Flaming Burst Shortbow of Lacerating (ML 10, I think) for higher levels, I can do decent ranged damage without Bow Strength and a really high strength without too much crafting investment when I'm primarily melee/crowd controlling.