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View Full Version : To my fellow sneaks, Spot milestone?



Magil
02-14-2013, 11:11 PM
What should I aim for in regards to my spot skill when it comes to stealth?

Thanks in advance.

esoitl
02-15-2013, 12:50 AM
One question I have is why are you inquiring about spot regarding stealth?

The more important numbers are your move quietly and hide skills, unless I'm misunderstanding what you're talking about. Spot has some use in that you won't accidentally bump into the hiding monsters but otherwise doesn't help your stealth.

As for what values are needed.... well that depends on level.
Most often, just keeping max ranks and an item is sufficient, there aren't really such high benchmarks you need with skills like DD, Search or Intimidate.

At level 7, max ranks is allowing me to spot everything without an item, and Listen lets me get the ones I can't spot...

Talon_Moonshadow
02-15-2013, 05:58 AM
Spot "is" useful with stealth... for just that mentioned reason... so you do not bump into monsters.

So you can see where they are facing....

and although not really used.. just general scouting ahead.

But also the secret door and trap detection thing.


Ok, I am sorry that I do not know what milestone numbers you should aim for.

I do know that some monsters hide extremely well.
and that I like to have my Spot maxed.

You can see them farther away and more clearly with higher Spot skill.
I like this.

I have had times when I could barely see tham and I was standing almost right on top of them.

Maybe MrCow has actual numbers.....
wish I did, but I generally just max it if I can.

MS first
Hide second
Spot third
(Listen a far distant tenth... lol)(I prefer Jump and UMD..and Bluff... I usually put a few minor points into Listen....occassionaly put extra points there, but I don't have any idea what benchmarks might be... I just want to hear something coming up behind me when I am sneaking)

Magil
02-15-2013, 06:42 AM
Well, I was planning on running a Ninja Spy, and using stealth to bypass things in a few quests. If it were a Rogue, I'd obviously have it maxed out, if only for door and trap detection. Max ranks aren't going to be a thing. At the least, I'd have (give or take) an Intelligence tome at level 7 to start putting ranks into it, and that would give me... 14 ranks at 20? (14 if LR, 13 otherwise.) Along with a high Wisdom to begin with, and a spot item, I think it might be enough.

I just wanna make sure.

Therigar
02-15-2013, 07:01 AM
Spot is one of those skills that evokes different responses from different players. Some feel it is essential, others that it is useless.

I think that Spot has value and that you should spend skill points on spot if you have them available. It is the "if you have them available" part that is the problem.

In some cases Listen is actually more useful than Spot. The secret to sneaking is both Hide and Move Silently. Spot helps you see things that are hidden. Listen helps you to hear things that move silently.

In many cases things don't move silently at all and you will see the red footprints even if you cannot see the mobs. So, don't discount the value of Listen.

As for target scores, I find that 6 or more ranks is usually enough for the normal adventurer to react to most mobs. This doesn't help with traps or secret doors, but it does tend to reveal mobs with just enough time to react.

The more ranks the sooner the mob can be detected.

Keep in mind that, even with a high Spot, if your graphics are not very good or you have a low draw distance then nothing is going to show. And, I don't generally read DM text but I don't think there is any "You spot something ahead" unless it is part of the normal narration. So, without a high draw distance and decent graphics you might not be getting anything on your screen even if your Spot skill exceeds the target.

Magil
02-15-2013, 07:14 AM
I won't have the points for listen, but I know what you mean.

I have my Draw Distance set higher for that very reason, even while the other parts of the details are set to lower ones. (This would be so much easier to run on a proper desktop. lol)

I value Spot over Listen, though. When I'm sneaking, I tend to prefer to go around them. Listen doesn't tell me the direction they are looking. I'd rather not go sneaking, see a little blip pop up, and walk right into their direct line of sight.

LordMond63
02-15-2013, 05:17 PM
Keep in mind that, even with a high Spot, if your graphics are not very good or you have a low draw distance then nothing is going to show. And, I don't generally read DM text but I don't think there is any "You spot something ahead" unless it is part of the normal narration. So, without a high draw distance and decent graphics you might not be getting anything on your screen even if your Spot skill exceeds the target.

I don't think I've ever known the DM dialog to say anything along those lines.

What I have seen is a circle of small red dash marks on the ground which surround the feet of a hidden mob. You're absolutely right that having the greatest draw distance your hardware will support helps a ton.

What I wonder about is, Does a higher Spot (and, for that matter, Search too) increase the distance that you detect something? Or just the chance that you'll note something amiss? Or, best yet, both?

I'm of the school of opinion that Spot is a valuable skill, as you can't count on someone in the group always having memorized the location of every single trap in a particular quest. In my case, I'll try to slot a +WIS item (one that has +WIS and +SPOT is even better) to give me a higher base score. In my case, I think it's worth the investment, though I'm not going to criticize those that disagree because they can make it work as well. Call it two viable routes to the same destination.

bhgiant
02-15-2013, 05:22 PM
In EE 47 spot is not enough to detect some traps. That's with Epic Spyglass and GH.

Magil
02-15-2013, 05:27 PM
In EE 47 spot is not enough to detect some traps. That's with Epic Spyglass and GH.
Dun care about the traps. Just want to see hidden monsters while stealthed.

Raithe
02-15-2013, 05:39 PM
What I have seen is a circle of small red dash marks on the ground which surround the feet of a hidden mob. You're absolutely right that having the greatest draw distance your hardware will support helps a ton.


The red blips at the feet of hidden mobs are created by your LISTEN skill, they are a visualization most likely because it would involve player-filtering of the ambient sounds, and many people play with the sound very low or muted in some fashion.



What I wonder about is, Does a higher Spot (and, for that matter, Search too) increase the distance that you detect something?


The ability to spot a hidden mob (their outlines) increases as distance decreases. So yes, a high spot allows you to see hidden mobs at a farther distance.



I'm of the school of opinion that Spot is a valuable skill, as you can't count on someone in the group always having memorized the location of every single trap in a particular quest...

A very large cross-section of the game has no threatening traps to speak of, but a similarly large cross-section have dangerous mobs that are stealthy. Spot is useful for EVERYONE because of the hidden mob thing, and the people that don't know that are the very people that can't spot the threats and are continuously getting killed (along with other members of the party) because of it. They have no clue. It's really freaking annoying.



...Just want to see hidden monsters while stealthed.


In years past, I would say that ~32 or so would let you see the vast majority of mobs that are close by. The addition of very stealthy scorpions in the Cannith Challenges and epic Drow/Rogues has made things much more complicated in this area.

I think you are looking at a 55 or so to be truly stealthy.

Magil
02-15-2013, 06:24 PM
So, 55...

15 base wisdom + 3 tome + 4 enhancements + 2 capstone + 4 ocean stance (Love ocean stance) + 6 item + 5 level ups + 1 litany / exceptional + possible 2 more exceptional = 40-42 wisdom, which would give me a... About a 15 modifier to spot.

(I have my own guild. It's not a high enough level to get the +2 wisdom shrine.)

Add a 15 item (minimum) + 14 ranks from an Intelligence tome..

I'd be looking at about ... 44 from that...
Hmm... The Planar Gird is looking mighty awesome about now. lol So +4 there if I can net one.
Then there's +2 Good Luck.
Another +5 if I get the Epic Goggles of Time Sensing (More likely to use this than the Spyglass).

Assuming my math is right, that would just be 55.

EllisDee37
02-16-2013, 05:11 AM
Another +5 if I get the Epic Goggles of Time Sensing (More likely to use this than the Spyglass).U17 opens up some more options:

Intricate Field Optics (goggles)
+8 or +3 int, wis, or cha
Spot +20
True Seeing
Green augment
Yellow augment

Dream Visor (goggles)
+5 attack and damage
Ghost Touch
Spot +20
Yellow Augment

slimkj
02-16-2013, 05:29 AM
My Monkcher uses her Hide/MS to bypass fights in some quests when soloing. Her spot is around mid to high 40s if I remember right (can't double check, obviously) and I've never had a problem with keeping track of all mobs, in everything up to highest eH content.

I don't often use her for eE so I have no idea how that score would hold up in there.

Magil
02-16-2013, 08:45 AM
U17 opens up some more options:

Intricate Field Optics (goggles)
+8 or +3 int, wis, or cha
Spot +20
True Seeing
Green augment
Yellow augment

Dream Visor (goggles)
+5 attack and damage
Ghost Touch
Spot +20
Yellow Augment
Hmm... Those look interesting. But it will depend entirely on how the augment system works out... and if I ever desire to make it into the Epic levels. Something to keep in mind, at least. lol

My Monkcher uses her Hide/MS to bypass fights in some quests when soloing. Her spot is around mid to high 40s if I remember right (can't double check, obviously) and I've never had a problem with keeping track of all mobs, in everything up to highest eH content.

I don't often use her for eE so I have no idea how that score would hold up in there.
Thank you. This is the sort of thing I was looking for.

LordMond63
02-16-2013, 01:11 PM
The red blips at the feet of hidden mobs are created by your LISTEN skill, they are a visualization most likely because it would involve player-filtering of the ambient sounds, and many people play with the sound very low or muted in some fashion.

I would be surprised if that's the case because, to the best of my knowledge, my Spot is always much, much higher than my Listen skill- in fact, I ignore Listen altogether- so I'd think that perhaps the effect is the same for both skills (the red blips) when one triggers via a successful skill check.

EllisDee37
02-16-2013, 06:00 PM
I would be surprised if that's the case because, to the best of my knowledge, my Spot is always much, much higher than my Listen skill- in fact, I ignore Listen altogether- so I'd think that perhaps the effect is the same for both skills (the red blips) when one triggers via a successful skill check.The red footprints are listen, not spot. Spot shows you faint, translucent images of the hidden mob, not just the footprints.


Another +5 if I get the Epic Goggles of Time Sensing (More likely to use this than the Spyglass).
Hmm... Those look interesting. But it will depend entirely on how the augment system works out... and if I ever desire to make it into the Epic levels. Something to keep in mind, at least. lolI'm confused. How do you get Epic Goggles of Time Sensing if you have no desire to make it into epic levels?

The U17 goggles drop whole in the chest, as opposed to having to farm up a base item, a shard, a seal and a scroll. That makes the U17 gear far easier to get. (As in, you have to run far fewer epics.)

EDIT: Unless you mean eElites, which would make a ton of sense, actually. Not sure about the intricate field optics, but the Dream Visor gives +20 spot from the eHard version (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v490/sisco777/ehdreamvisor_zps53285c40.png). The visor is from PoP and the optics are from Tor.

Magil
02-16-2013, 09:29 PM
I'm confused. How do you get Epic Goggles of Time Sensing if you have no desire to make it into epic levels?

The U17 goggles drop whole in the chest, as opposed to having to farm up a base item, a shard, a seal and a scroll. That makes the U17 gear far easier to get. (As in, you have to run far fewer epics.)

EDIT: Unless you mean eElites, which would make a ton of sense, actually. Not sure about the intricate field optics, but the Dream Visor gives +20 spot from the eHard version (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v490/sisco777/ehdreamvisor_zps53285c40.png). The visor is from PoP and the optics are from Tor.
Sorry, I should have been more clear. :P

I don't have a lot of high level packs, let alone those with epic level content. For this reason, I seriously don't plan on leveling up past 20-21. (All of my current packs are listed on the bottom of the OP here (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=407023).)

As for the Goggles of Time Sensing, I also like those as they have a +2 Exceptional Wisdom already on the item. Adding an exceptional +1 to those would be much much easier and save a bit of room. Could also use a simple +6 wisdom in the other slot if I wanted, which would free up a slot later, I'm sure.

Of course, this all depends entirely on exactly how the new augment system works when it goes live.

EllisDee37
02-16-2013, 09:39 PM
I don't have a lot of high level packs, let alone those with epic level content. For this reason, I seriously don't plan on leveling up past 20-21. (All of my current packs are listed on the bottom of the OP here (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=407023).)Ah, gotcha. You do own a bunch of epics: Carnival, Sentinels, Devil Assault, Demon Sands, and Gianthold. Those other goggles options are from Gianthold.


As for the Goggles of Time Sensing, I also like those as they have a +2 Exceptional Wisdom already on the item. Adding an exceptional +1 to those would be much much easier and save a bit of room. Could also use a simple +6 wisdom in the other slot if I wanted, which would free up a slot later, I'm sure.

Of course, this all depends entirely on exactly how the new augment system works when it goes live.This makes sense.

Intricate field optics come with 2 augments, plus they can have +8 wisdom or +3 insightful wisdom on them. So you could get the +8 version and slot it with +2 insightful or the +3 insightful and slot it with +7 wisdom, either way getting +10 item bonus.

slimkj
02-17-2013, 03:19 AM
I underestimated. Her spot at L24 is 58. So take off 4 for Epic levels = 54 at 20. That's been sufficient. I put 21 ranks in, have 38 Wis and do actually have +15 Spot by accident (on the Epic Sandstorm Glasses). So that's a "yes it works" mark for you to aim for. :)