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Coyopa
02-14-2013, 10:18 PM
I do not know really where to post this, so it is going here. This is just an idea I have been toying around with since the servers are down and decided I would get other people's feedback and suggestions on it. Again, this character has not been built. Feel free to tear this apart as I really have no ego attached to it (yet).

As you view the character plan, you will notice I applied +2 tomes at level 6. I did this because I can LR the character and get the benefit of an extra two points of Intelligence at level 7 that way. If I do not do this, it will not matter much, either way.

I have long wanted a monk multi-class that uses longswords, ever since I noticed Whirling Steel Strike. I tried one another time, but it was horribly and obviously broken by about level 8 - BELETED! Anyway, the idea with this is a decent degree of self-sufficiency with good dps. That's why I went light monk instead of dark, even knowing the healing curse is about all this offers, since the elemental attacks at high level will not be worth the effort, really. I also recognize that I cannot use Stunning Fist while armed.

I took Dodge and Mobility partly for the dodge bonuses, but also because they were about the best feats available at those levels. I am planning on Overwhelming Critical for the first epic feat (assuming this character gets that far). I think I would probably drop Human Greater Adapability (Dexterity) and take Great Dexterity feat at level 24 to get an even dexterity. Not sure where I would put the extra four action points. One possibility is Rogue Sense Traps 1, and Way of the Clever Monkey 1 & 2.

Anyway, I look forward to your suggestions, opinions, and questions. Thanks for helping me out!


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.14.02
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 20 Lawful Neutral Human Male
(12 Fighter \ 7 Monk \ 1 Rogue)
Hit Points: 344
Spell Points: 0
BAB: 17\17\22\27\27
Fortitude: 17
Reflex: 15
Will: 9

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 16 26
Dexterity 15 18
Constitution 16 18
Intelligence 12 14
Wisdom 8 10
Charisma 8 10

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 6
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 6
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 6
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 6
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 6
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 6

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20)
Balance 6 8
Bluff -1 2
Concentration 5 8
Diplomacy -1 2
Disable Device 5 25
Haggle -1 0
Heal -1 0
Hide 2 4
Intimidate -1 2
Jump 7 27
Listen -1 0
Move Silently 2 4
Open Lock 6 8
Perform n/a n/a
Repair 1 2
Search 5 25
Spot 3 17
Swim 7 12
Tumble 6 8
Use Magic Device 3 4

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Human Bonus) Toughness
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Human Versatility I


Level 2 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons


Level 3 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Cleave
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack


Level 4 (Fighter)


Level 5 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons


Level 6 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Great Cleave


Level 7 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost II
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost II
Enhancement: Kensei Longsword Mastery I
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy II
Enhancement: Fighter Kensei I
Enhancement: Fighter Strategy (Sunder) I
Enhancement: Fighter Strategy (Sunder) II
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness II


Level 8 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Stunning Fist


Level 9 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Improved Sunder
Feat: (Selected) Whirling Steel Strike


Level 10 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Path) Path of Harmonious Balance: Fists of Light


Level 11 (Monk)


Level 12 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 13 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Dodge


Level 14 (Monk)
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery III
Enhancement: Monk Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Monk Improved Recovery II
Enhancement: Shintao Monk I
Enhancement: Adept of Wind
Enhancement: Fighter Strength II


Level 15 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting


Level 16 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons


Level 17 (Fighter)


Level 18 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Mobility
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Stunning Blow


Level 19 (Fighter)


Level 20 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost III
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost IV
Enhancement: Kensei Longsword Mastery II
Enhancement: Fighter Kensei II
Enhancement: Fighter Strategy (Sunder) III
Enhancement: Fighter Strategy (Sunder) IV
Enhancement: Fighter Longsword Specialization I
Enhancement: Human Greater Adaptability Dexterity I
Enhancement: Human Versatility II

Coyopa
02-14-2013, 10:36 PM
I should add that I would expect this character to be in Legendary Dreadnought destiny. If I keep Human Greater Adapability (Dexterity), then I could take Spring Attack at level 24 for an extra 2% dodge. With Flurry of Blows, that would bring dodge to 12%. Add in Epic Cloak of Night (L20), Epic Bracers of Wind, and dodge goes to 17%. Twist in Unearthly Reactions and Perfect Balance and I can get to 23%. The last twist would be Sense Weakness.

I would figure his other gear would include Epic Spare Hand, possibly Epic Treasure Hunter's Spyglass, maybe Epic Utility Vest (as a swap-in). I don't really know what all else I would choose, to be honest.

Anyway, just throwing that info out there.

RoelHeeswijk
02-14-2013, 10:47 PM
It would be a lot more effective to use khopeshes on this. What do you expect from being centered?
I just don't understand. What do you want from 7 monk? It just feels like 7 class levels wasted (or, the most expensive healing amp ever)

RoelHeeswijk
02-14-2013, 10:56 PM
Also I think you are HEAVILY overrating dodge. Dodge+Mobility are just not worth it.
Stunning fists doesn't do anything with your wisdom, and certainly not when you are not using Fists. Did you mean Stunning Blow?
Last, Oversized Two Weapon Fighting is worthless as of U14, the way AC works now, 2 tohit doesn't increase your chance of hitting very much (for example, a wizard with 8 STR and 10bab will hit not that much less than a raged barbarian. 2 more or less is not going to matter).

Coyopa
02-15-2013, 06:47 AM
Well, as far as Oversized Two Weapon Fighting, I was not actually sure whether it was still useful or not. On the one hand because of the AC changes, I did not think so, but on the other hand I figured it might still be useful. So, that's cool. That can go.

Dodge % is pretty powerful, though. I have a L13 6Rog/6Monk/1Fighter currently with 15% dodge and I have noticed he dodges quite a lot. Eventually, he will have a standing dodge % of 24 (if they ever fix the Dodge feat, then he would have 25).

As I noted, I recognize that Stunning Fist does not get me very much. It is a pre-requisite for going light monk. So, no, I did not take that feat incorrectly. Since I can drop O***, then I will swap in Stunning Blow.

Regarding what monk gets me: healing curse, 20% heal amp, 10% faster melee, Wholeness of Body, Flurry of Blows (for 6% dodge). Flurry of Blows actually also gets me +2 attack, which both off-sets the penalty for wielding oversized weapons and further negates the need for OTWF. The monk levels also get me three additional feats.

Finally, regarding the suggestion to use khopeshes instead.....If I switch this character to that weapon, then the entire build has to change and the flavour of using Whirling Steel Strike is gone. I do not think this build is automatically gimp, but I also do not expect it to be perfect. Mainly, this is just an exercise in "Can a build like this mostly work?". It has been an idea that has intrigued me for some time, but I lacked the knowledge, patience, and time to work out the build on paper....until now.

EDIT: When I have time on Sunday, I will update the build to drop OTWF, and add Stunning Blow.

RoelHeeswijk
02-15-2013, 01:52 PM
If you would really gain 10% attack speed, that alone might make this worth it, but it's just an enhancement bonus (meaning it won't stack with haste, making it more of a little convenience thing than an actual build plan).


As I noted, I recognize that Stunning Fist does not get me very much. It is a pre-requisite for going light monk. So, no, I did not take that feat incorrectly.

Is it really? It's been a bit since I last played a monk centered, I could be wrong, but I don't think this is prereq for going path of light (at least for getting the healing curse. maybe you need it for some other light-related ability?).

The build is not going to be horrible, kensai II is a good start no matter what you follow up with (12 fighter 7 wiz 1 rogue would probably still kill ****) and with named longswords it could be fun to play.

But the dodge... nice as it may be, it's just not that important. For instance, the PRR that you give up by going cloth instead of light armor is a sacrifice of 7% damage reduction, that alone is already quite a lot better than 7% dodge. (taking less is more important than taking less often; even though the average is the same it's easier to heal).
Likewise, I would prefer 3 additional toughness feats over dodge-mobiilty-spring attack. It not like you'll be standing in the 1000hp, so I'd easily take 84HP over 7% dodge on a build like this, for example.
At least take the epic toughness feat. That CERTAINLY is a better bargain.

Ryiah
02-15-2013, 02:05 PM
It's been a bit since I last played a monk centered, I could be wrong, but I don't think this is prereq for going path of light (at least for getting the healing curse. maybe you need it for some other light-related ability?).

It is required for Shintao Monk.

Zanuzi
02-15-2013, 02:19 PM
I Had this build from the my Keeper days when it was known as monkster(I followed the build laid out by the Monster build guys) - found it to be very effective, use handwraps and power surge, just enjoy playing it.

Jingwei
02-15-2013, 03:38 PM
Why are you going for Shintao I? it doesn't seem to get you anything.

For stances, you either want fire I, for the 25% healing amp and ready sources of ki, or mountain II for the HP and PRR. Air II isn't worth it, since you can get the major benefit of air II by wearing a melee alacrity item.

Think your class progression should be something like rogue 1, fighter 1, monk 3, fighter 11, monk 4. You want to race to fists of light, but after you get that, other monk levels can wait.

My version of the build would look something like:


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.8.1
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 20 Lawful Good Human Male
(12 Fighter \ 7 Monk \ 1 Rogue)
Hit Points: 344
Spell Points: 0
BAB: 17\17\22\27\27
Fortitude: 17
Reflex: 14
Will: 9

Starting Ending Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Base Stats Modified Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20) (Level 20)
Strength 16 23 27
Dexterity 15 17 17
Constitution 16 18 18
Intelligence 12 14 14
Wisdom 8 10 10
Charisma 8 10 10

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 6
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 6
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 6
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 6
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 6
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 6

Starting Ending Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20) (Level 20)
Balance 2 3 3
Bluff -1 0 2
Concentration 3 4 6
Diplomacy -1 0 2
Disable Device n/a n/a n/a
Haggle -1 0 1
Heal -1 0 0
Hide 2 3 3
Intimidate -1 0 2
Jump 3 8 8
Listen -1 0 0
Move Silently 2 3 3
Open Lock n/a n/a n/a
Perform n/a n/a n/a
Repair 1 2 2
Search 1 2 2
Spot -1 0 0
Swim 3 8 8
Tumble n/a n/a n/a
Use Magic Device n/a n/a n/a

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Human Bonus) Toughness
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting


Level 2 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Power Attack


Level 3 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Whirling Steel Strike


Level 4 (Monk)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Dodge


Level 5 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Path) Path of Harmonious Balance: Fists of Light


Level 6 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Mobility
Feat: (Selected) Stunning Blow


Level 7 (Fighter)


Level 8 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons


Level 9 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting


Level 10 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Spring Attack


Level 11 (Fighter)


Level 12 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Selected) Cleave
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 13 (Fighter)


Level 14 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Two Weapon Fighting


Level 15 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Great Cleave


Level 16 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons


Level 17 (Monk)


Level 18 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Defense


Level 19 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Improved Sunder


Level 20 (Monk)
Ability Raise: STR
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost II
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost II
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost III
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost IV
Enhancement: Kensei Longsword Mastery I
Enhancement: Kensei Longsword Mastery II
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy II
Enhancement: Fighter Kensei I
Enhancement: Fighter Kensei II
Enhancement: Fighter Strategy (Stunning Blow) I
Enhancement: Fighter Strategy (Stunning Blow) II
Enhancement: Fighter Longsword Specialization I
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery III
Enhancement: Human Versatility I
Enhancement: Human Versatility II
Enhancement: Human Versatility III
Enhancement: Human Versatility IV
Enhancement: Way of the Clever Monkey I
Enhancement: Monk Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Monk Improved Recovery II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength II
Enhancement: Fighter Strength III
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness II
Enhancement: Rogue Improved Trap Sense I




You have spare feats, might as well get the dodge bonus feats. You'll need the defense.

Assuming fire I stance, gearing would look something like:

Jidz Teka
Black Dragonscale Robe
Stunning Seal of House Dun'Robar
Adamantine Cloak of the Bear
Epic ring of the stalker
PDK Gloves
Thranes Goggles?
Head of Good fortune?

Which would get you 19% standing dodge and 14 PRR.

If going into earth II stance instead gearing changes to:

Epic bracers of the wind
Black Dragonscale Robe
Stunning Seal of House Dun'Robar
Adamantine Cloak of the Bear
Epic ring of the stalker
PDK Gloves
Thranes Goggles?
Head of Good fortune?
Oremi's necklace

Which would get you 22% standing dodge and 22 PRR.

Darkrok
02-15-2013, 04:06 PM
I'm playing something similar (12 fighter/6 monk) right now. I've played it as both a kensei and a SD. I can't comment on epic levels but for heroic levels I'd highly recommend SD over Kensei. I'm on a human and did the following feat list: WF: Bludgeoning, WSpec: Bludgeoning, GWSpec: Bludgeoning, Improved Crit: Bludgeoning, TWF, iTWF, gTWF, Combat Expertise, Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack, Stunning Blow, Stunning Fist, Improved Sunder, Toughness, Whirlwind Attack, Power Attack, and Quick Draw. It's a nice mix of feats as you can change back and forth between KenseiII/SDII with a swap of enhancements and can do a single feat swap (light monk/dark monk) to switch between Ninja Spy/Shintao.

What I really like about the SDII/ShintaoI combination though is that it's much less expensive than the Kensei version when it comes to boosts. When I was going Kensei I felt the need to really max out those boosts (HVIV, Haste IV, extra action boost I) and between that and the additional costs to qualify for Kensei I felt I was really tight on AP. The SDII version is much more relaxed and can easily fit in tons of healing amp and 2 of the tier II stances (took wind and earth for tier II - fire is fine as tier I when used) as well as Shintao I which I was skipping in the Kensei version since I couldn't fit it in.

This is very much a bridge build for me - I just like the pure monk better - but for a fighter past life on a heavily monk-geared toon this works very well. The stunning fist and stunning blow both are effective in heroic elites especially when prepping them with Improved Sunder, the survivability is very good for a pajama wearer, and the dps isn't terribly far behind the kensei version.

Davelfus
02-15-2013, 04:35 PM
I would drop shintao I and grab ninja spy I, shadow fade is a really powerful and useful ablity.

with your rogue lvl you can max UMD and use heal scrolls (even going out of combat with shadow fade and using them, since not the majority of enemies in the game can see invisibility)

also can carry some displace scrolls or GS displace clickies, displace + shadow fade is great against normal trash (or anything without true seeing and ghost touch)

Coyopa
02-16-2013, 10:34 AM
These are good suggestions and I will be reading them again when I am back at my own PC, then modifying my build taking into account what everyone has said. I will post the build back up here after that, but that will not be until tomorrow evening (Sunday) in US Central time.

I realized on my drive here yesterday that I did not actually need Stunning Fist and could drop Shintao 1 entirely. That lets me swap Stunning Fist for Spring Attack (have to move feats around for this).

I like the idea of this character being in fire stance and using Jidz-Tet'ka. Additively, it would bring his healing amp (prior to L20) to 75% (and I am aware that math is not correct because they stack differently [read another thread recently about this], but I cannot remember that math precisely and it is not really relevant anyway since the value will be slightly greater than 75%). With PDK gloves, it would go to 105%.

I was thinking some dragontouched armor might be a good choice, as well, but I will look at the black dragonscale. Dragontouched would let me get Heal Amp 10% and Heal Amp 20%, then I could opt for Dodge 3% or (probably) Enervation Guard (I have this on a couple of other characters and it is surprisingly effective). Freezing Ice Guard would be nice, too, but I think the proc rate would likely be lower than Enervation Guard (this is just a guess as I have no data to back this up). However, the Black Dragonscale is very nice armor, as well - and with Epic Gianthold coming out soon, that armor could be quite crazy-good at epic level.

Regarding the suggestion to keep UMD high, I have to choose between that (paired with something else) or Disable Device paired with Search. At 12 Intelligence, human fighters get 4 skill points, human monks get 6. At 14 Intelligence, they get 5 or 7, respectively. Since all of those three skills are cross-class skills at every level except first, then it requires two points to keep them at max. So, until level 7, all the fighter level skill points were dedicated to Disable Device/Search. Through the monk levels, I spent 4 points on Disable Device/Search, then dropped the other three points into Spot to bring that up. Once spot was max'd, the remaining points went into Jump. When I switched back to Fighter class, then the points went to Disable Device/Search and Jump.

I really appreciate Jingwei's version of the build because I have a hard time figuring out how best to mix the levels up. This is why my original build plan went: 1 level of rogue, 6 levels of fighter, 7 levels of monk, then 6 levels of fighter. I will study his build a bit more to learn what I can to be able to intersperse the levels more.

I really like Improved Sunder for the ability to reduce fortification, but I was wondering how useful that really is because the reduction to armour class is of negligible benefit.

Finally, regarding gear, one thing I really like quite a lot is Seal of House Avithoul because the improved deception ability applied to all your attacks is amazing! It is even better when you have improved deception on your weapons because then you get twice the chances for it to proc when it is on your weapons (if on only one weapon, then that weapon gets two chances to proc it while the other weapon gets only one). The other nice thing about this seal is that I can get the +7 Dexterity version, eliminating the need for Great Dexterity feat at level 24. I think I have a Dun'Robar stunning seal sitting in the bank right now, actually - probably on my bard. I was planning on giving this character Epic Sirocco, which I see gives Smoke Screen and Air Guard while equipped. So, this reduces the benefits of Epic Bracers of Wind to, really, 3% Dodge and two slots - definitely not strong enough to bother with, which works out great enabling me to keep Epic Jidz-Tet'ka. Planning this character's gear will be very interesting and probably very different from my other characters' gear.

unbongwah
02-16-2013, 02:05 PM
Are there any particularly good named longswords you're planning on using? If not, cConsider dark monk (Ninja) w/short swords instead: comparable DPS w/out wasting two feats on WF:S+WSS. Plus Ninja gets you Shadow Fade and since Dodge is a pre-req feat, it fits in better with your desire for some Dodge.

Also consider rgr 12 / Tempest II instead of ftr 12 / Kensei II: lower melee DPS, but you need the D/M/SA feats anyway for Tempest; plus you can mix things up with Manyshot+Zen Archery, even if you're not an AA.

Coyopa
02-16-2013, 04:27 PM
Epic Sirocco and Epic Timeblade look pretty good for majority use at L20 and above. The non-epic versions look pretty good for heroic use - at least for a while.

Zen Archery would not be a very good selection as it relies on Wisdom. Since this build's wisdom is low (base 8, 10 @ L7), I think he would be fortunate to hit the broad side of a barn at 10 paces. The one positive here is that I would be able to rely on something other than shurikens for ranged damage - and using "ranged damage" to describe shurikens borders on oxymoronic. They are almost like using a mosquito to kill an elephant.

Ninja Spy is a possibility. It would mean giving up the healing curse ability, which may be less useful than I am thinking it might be. I am expecting the healing amplification to get me at least to a point where I am getting 2 or 4 hp back from it, but it may get me as high as 3 or 6. I am not certain on this as I am not that good with that particular math. The number and properties of named shortswords is even more underwhelming than the number and properties of named longswords.

Jingwei
02-16-2013, 06:57 PM
Healing amp stacking is multiplicative.

So stacking in fire stance would currently look like:

1.1 Human Healing Amp I
x1.1 Human Healing Amp II
x1.1 Human Healing Amp III
x1.1 Monk Healing Amp I
x1.1 Monk Healing Amp II
x1.3 PDK Gloves
x1.25 Jidz Teka Fire stance
=
~2.61

x1.1 Ship Buff
=
~2.87

x1.05 Paladin Past Life, or some other source of hamp
=
~3.02+

Getting to 2.0 healing amp is your first hurdle, which starts to get you 2 HP from every fists of light hit.

You'll be able to hit this at level 10 with the ship buff running:

1.1 Human Healing Amp I
x1.1 Human Healing Amp II
x1.1 Human Healing Amp III
x1.1 Monk Healing Amp I
x1.25 Jidz Teka Fire stance
=
~1.83

x1.1 Ship Buff
=
~2.01

3.0 healing amp gets you 3 HP, and means you need even less 'other' sources of healing. It also lets you do things like rely on lesser silver flame potions for self healing, which don't have the run speed debuff.

--------------

Another named longsword to look out for is the oathblade, which is also much easier to get than either of the epic longswords.

Coyopa
02-16-2013, 07:08 PM
@Jingwei,

Thank you for the break-down of how the healing amp stacks. I will be referring back to your post in the future when I need a reminder. Also, thank you for mentioning the Oathblade. I had forgotten that was a long sword.

Jingwei
02-16-2013, 07:15 PM
Note that, currently, things like human healing amp are stacking as 1.1^3 = 1.331 as opposed to being 1.3. This seems to have happened around the time that WF healer's friend got fixed. There's been no word on whether this is the new WAI stacking, or if it's a bug that'll be fixed eventually.

Coyopa
02-16-2013, 09:34 PM
Note that, currently, things like human healing amp are stacking as 1.1^3 = 1.331 as opposed to being 1.3. This seems to have happened around the time that WF healer's friend got fixed. There's been no word on whether this is the new WAI stacking, or if it's a bug that'll be fixed eventually.

+1 for all the information you have given me!

unbongwah
02-17-2013, 11:40 AM
Epic Sirocco and Epic Timeblade look pretty good for majority use at L20 and above. The non-epic versions look pretty good for heroic use - at least for a while.
At low lvls I like Retribution (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Retribution); +3d6 vs evil targets and another +1d6 if non-lawful. Enduring Conviction (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Enduring_Conviction) is probably a good choice for CE Outsiders; you'll be able to UMD Cold Iron scrolls. Also look into Oathblade (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Oathblade) (keen + crit range of scimitar) and Tinah (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Tinah,_Sword_of_the_Sea).

Coyopa
02-17-2013, 10:29 PM
At low lvls I like Retribution (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Retribution); +3d6 vs evil targets and another +1d6 if non-lawful. Enduring Conviction (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Enduring_Conviction) is probably a good choice for CE Outsiders; you'll be able to UMD Cold Iron scrolls. Also look into Oathblade (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Oathblade) (keen + crit range of scimitar) and Tinah (http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Tinah,_Sword_of_the_Sea).

I will see about getting Retribution, in spite of how much I hate Threnal. Enduring Conviction is probably never going to happen. There is also no way I will be able to UMD Cold Iron scrolls. My UMD might hit 20 eventually with Charisma gear and other gear, but that is only enough for L1 scrolls.

UnderwearModel
02-18-2013, 07:15 AM
You can utilize the WISDOM requirement of the ranger and the monk. Granted. you still want high strength and constitution for a fighter, but you are wasting the WISDOM requirement from the monk as a fighter, in my opinion.

Run around in pajamas, using the wisdom bonus for AC, dealing death with multi shot and buffing yourself happily while dodging the opposition.

Coyopa
02-18-2013, 04:47 PM
You can utilize the WISDOM requirement of the ranger and the monk. Granted. you still want high strength and constitution for a fighter, but you are wasting the WISDOM requirement from the monk as a fighter, in my opinion.

Run around in pajamas, using the wisdom bonus for AC, dealing death with multi shot and buffing yourself happily while dodging the opposition.

Well, that would be a good plan if I wanted another ranger. I have entertained the idea of a monkcher and I like the idea quite a lot. However, that is not this build.

Anyway, this is the updated build:


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.14.02
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 20 Lawful Neutral Human Male
(12 Fighter \ 7 Monk \ 1 Rogue)
Hit Points: 344
Spell Points: 0
BAB: 17\17\22\27\27
Fortitude: 17
Reflex: 14
Will: 9

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 16 26
Dexterity 15 17
Constitution 16 18
Intelligence 12 14
Wisdom 8 10
Charisma 8 10

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20)
Balance 6 7
Bluff -1 2
Concentration 5 8
Diplomacy -1 2
Disable Device 5 25
Haggle -1 1
Heal -1 0
Hide 2 3
Intimidate -1 2
Jump 7 27
Listen -1 0
Move Silently 2 3
Open Lock 6 7
Perform n/a n/a
Repair 1 2
Search 5 25
Spot 3 16
Swim 7 12
Tumble 6 7
Use Magic Device 3 4

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Human Bonus) Power Attack
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Human Versatility I


Level 2 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I
Enhancement: Fighter Strategy (Sunder) I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I


Level 3 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Cleave
Feat: (Selected) Stunning Blow
Enhancement: Fighter Strategy (Stunning Blow) I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I


Level 4 (Fighter)
Enhancement: Human Versatility II


Level 5 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost II
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost II
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy II


Level 6 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Great Cleave
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II


Level 7 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Kensei Longsword Mastery I
Enhancement: Fighter Kensei I


Level 8 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Whirling Steel Strike
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I


Level 9 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Improved Sunder
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Enhancement: Way of the Clever Monkey I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I


Level 10 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Path) Path of Harmonious Balance: Fists of Light
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery III
Enhancement: Monk Improved Recovery I


Level 11 (Monk)
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness II


Level 12 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Fighter Strength II


Level 13 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Dodge
Enhancement: Human Versatility III


Level 14 (Monk)
Enhancement: Monk Improved Recovery II


Level 15 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost III
Enhancement: Fighter Strategy (Stunning Blow) II


Level 16 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Fighter Longsword Specialization I


Level 17 (Fighter)
Enhancement: Fighter Strategy (Stunning Blow) III
Enhancement: Human Versatility IV


Level 18 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Mobility
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Spring Attack
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost IV


Level 19 (Fighter)


Level 20 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Fighter Kensei II




I kept the monk levels from 8 to 14 still because I wanted the extra points to allocate to spot. I also decided that LR'ing for that one extra point at level 7 is just not worth it.

Jingwei
02-18-2013, 11:18 PM
You don't need greater weapon focus to get greater weapon specialization (Kensei II req) and since you aren't looking at Kensei III, which requires, superior weapon focus, it's a wasted feat.

Not sure why you are taking jump over UMD. A plain ML1 jump clicky (+10) now lasts 5 minutes and a Morah's Belt will get you jump +30. And with the +5 epic skill bonus, meeting old UMD thresholds is easier than ever.

Coyopa
02-19-2013, 07:15 AM
You don't need greater weapon focus to get greater weapon specialization (Kensei II req) and since you aren't looking at Kensei III, which requires, superior weapon focus, it's a wasted feat.

Not sure why you are taking jump over UMD. A plain ML1 jump clicky (+10) now lasts 5 minutes and a Morah's Belt will get you jump +30. And with the +5 epic skill bonus, meeting old UMD thresholds is easier than ever.

I mis-read, then. I thought I needed greater weapon focus. I will drop that and see what to put in its place.

As far as jump, I like having a high natural jump because there have been plenty of times where I have needed to jump and did not have time to swap an item in (and did not have a caster around to give 20m+ of jump). I suppose I could drop the points I invest in it after first level. However, that would net me just 7 points of UMD. That would bring my base UMD to 11. If I use Epic Treasure Hunter's Spyglass and Epic Spare Hand, then that brings me 17. A +6 Charisma item brings me to 20. Level 25 would bring me to 25. So, I could *maybe* get enough UMD to use level 3 scrolls and wands. Ummm......yay? Conversely, my unbuffed jump is at 27. Add in another +10 strength (+7 from PDK gloves, +1 from L24, +2 from fire stance) and that brings it to 32. At that point, that skill is actually usable without help, but I can carry a few Jump potions for the rare times when I actually need 40 jump.

RoelHeeswijk
02-20-2013, 09:37 AM
I mis-read, then. I thought I needed greater weapon focus. I will drop that and see what to put in its place.

As far as jump, I like having a high natural jump because there have been plenty of times where I have needed to jump and did not have time to swap an item in (and did not have a caster around to give 20m+ of jump). I suppose I could drop the points I invest in it after first level. However, that would net me just 7 points of UMD. That would bring my base UMD to 11. If I use Epic Treasure Hunter's Spyglass and Epic Spare Hand, then that brings me 17. A +6 Charisma item brings me to 20. Level 25 would bring me to 25. So, I could *maybe* get enough UMD to use level 3 scrolls and wands. Ummm......yay? Conversely, my unbuffed jump is at 27. Add in another +10 strength (+7 from PDK gloves, +1 from L24, +2 from fire stance) and that brings it to 32. At that point, that skill is actually usable without help, but I can carry a few Jump potions for the rare times when I actually need 40 jump.

Also, depending on your system, UMD can be a huge liability. It seems that not everyone suffers from this, but a lot of people's clients freeze when their UMD changes. Dying all the time when you get a GH cast on you mid-fight is not worth the ability to use scrolls. If your system has this problem, don't touch UMD at all, even putting one point in UMD activates it.
Either jump or balance is a better choice anyway unless you go the full 23 ranks (and plan on wearing a +5 cha skill greensteel item, or can get your UMD higher in some other easy way).