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oldweasel
02-09-2013, 07:52 AM
Trying to find out information for FvS, as a friend of mine bought the FvS pack and 32 point builds but is leaving ddo after only a month or two of playing (he has more $$ than sense, but I'm not saying anything ;) ).

Looking around on the forums, it seems that 90% of the FvS builds I'm finding are 2nd life builds, are there any FvS builds that are good for a 1st lifer who solos half the time? Or should I just 1st life a cleric and then TR into a Fvs?

I like the idea of using a 2H weapon + Heavy Armor and being able to self heal from the get-go, so any / all advice welcome and accepted.

Thanks in advance!

Lonnbeimnech
02-09-2013, 07:56 AM
They are clerics with more sp and no aura. That's about it.

There are other differences that mean nothing, and there is a huge amount of hype from last year when they were the flavor of the month, but meh. It's a cleric.

SirValentine
02-09-2013, 08:01 AM
Looking around on the forums, it seems that 90% of the FvS builds I'm finding are 2nd life builds, are there any FvS builds that are good for a 1st lifer who solos half the time?


I doubt very many of those build absolutely need the past lives. You could make a fine FvS on a first life.



I like the idea of using a 2H weapon + Heavy Armor and being able to self heal from the get-go, so any / all advice welcome and accepted.


No reason you couldn't do that. I don't want to give you specifics, as I have not done a melee-focused FvS. But I see enough of them around and doing fine that I'm sure it's an okay option.

One thing, though, FvS doesn't get Heavy Armor proficiency, only Medium. That's not an issue if you're planning to splash Fighter or something, as that covers your weapon and Heavy Armor proficiencies.

SirValentine
02-09-2013, 08:04 AM
They are clerics with more sp and no aura. That's about it.


You forgot the cripplingly few spell slots.

If you've levelled a Cleric, levelling a FvS is so painful, because it takes so long to get spell slots, even just for the must-have spells. You just can't fit those situationally-awesome spells at all.

The PrE bonuses are nice, though. Revved up BB, and free DPS from shoulder-cannon, plus debuff on foes.

voodoogroves
02-09-2013, 08:10 AM
You forgot the cripplingly few spell slots.

If you've levelled a Cleric, levelling a FvS is so painful, because it takes so long to get spell slots, even just for the must-have spells. You just can't fit those situationally-awesome spells at all.

The PrE bonuses are nice, though. Revved up BB, and free DPS from shoulder-cannon, plus debuff on foes.

FVS until 12 can be ... difficult. If you ignore DCs though, it is less difficult ;-)

I've played a number of melee FVS - two that were pure, one that was an 18/2 TWF split. One of the melee was a WF, the other was a human swinging a greataxe (human was a first-lifer).

You can absolutely do fine w/ a melee FVS using heals, buffs and DC-unimportant damage spells. The ED even gives good CHA based options if you wanted to be CHA focused.

Daemoneyes
02-09-2013, 08:13 AM
Splashing
2 lvl Paladin, gets you heavy armor and a lot better safes (safes are worth that much and more)
If you only want a selfhealing melee i would also take 2 lvl of fighter, gives you 2 feats which makes getting all those melee feats into your build way easier.

Most builds are second life because they try to go for melee and good DC (or 2wf) which takes a lot of points but 32point is good enough.

Lonnbeimnech
02-09-2013, 08:19 AM
You forgot the cripplingly few spell slots.

If you've levelled a Cleric, levelling a FvS is so painful, because it takes so long to get spell slots, even just for the must-have spells. You just can't fit those situationally-awesome spells at all.

The PrE bonuses are nice, though. Revved up BB, and free DPS from shoulder-cannon, plus debuff on foes.

Now that you mention it yes. I would switch between chaos hammer and orders wrath on my cleric while leveling, and on fvs I couldnt fit either of them.

As far as BB, when on a divine it's awesome but, I just leveled up an arti and my goodness is it annoying when divines spam that garbage all over the place kiting things around when I know the mobs would take one hit from mine and drop. But I can't cast it because it doesn't stack then they've overlapped theirs all over the dungeon.

The shoulder cannon, the aura, it's more like a crosshair for cometfalls and lightning bolts, it pulls argo from a room away before the door is even open. It's probably the main reason why fvs run through the dungeon casting blade barrier. At least they got rid of the sound effect.

Kylric
02-09-2013, 10:03 AM
I’m newer to the game, been only playing for about 4 months. My 1st life FvS is a 32 point build and is about to turn 15.

Starting off, the ONLY reason I stayed playing this guy is because I purchased FvS and used a Tome of Learning. I spent real money and I will make it work for me! I have read a bunch about level 12, so that was my goal. I also read a few people stated they are great as a solo class. I should also let you know I’m a melee at heart, but since I solo a bunch I understand the need for healing and other spells as well.

I do have some other lower level toons, but I wanted to enjoy the game instead of playing the same low level quests over and over again.

Now that I’ve learned the game more, and understand my spells a bit better, I’ve learned to play my FvS better as well. They are not great at melee, but the spells gives me a bit of an increase with that style. My goal right now is to get to level 20 and TR. In fact, I might go back to FvS, but I’m not sure. More than likely I’m going to get him to 20 and park him for a bit. I might level my Ranger/Rogue and see how he plays.

Anyways, according to your play style I might make the following recommendation:

18 Fvs/2 Ftr, Half-elf with Paladin Dilettante. You will get skills with 2HW and heavy armors, plus you can switch to a sword and shield options when you feel that might be a good in some circumstances. I really like beating those saving throws, so I like the Paladin route. I believe FvS and Monks have the best general saves in the game, and of course paladins with their granted ability.

Another option could be 12 Ftr/8 cleric, which is something I wish I had done several times during my lower levels.

I hope this was somewhat helpful

SemiraLynn
02-09-2013, 11:02 AM
Having brought both Cleric and Favored Soul to level 20, I find the Favored Soul so much more fun to play. Until the Cleric gets more interesting Prestiges, I personally found little reason to play them if you have the option to do both. The Cleric's Aura is nice to have but I'd rather take the much larger pool of spell points to do as I see fit. Favored Souls naturally get wings although now with Epic Destinies everyone can get them. Favored Souls feel more damage focused, which is what I prefer to do. Favored Souls do have fewer spell slots but that is easily made up by the fact most spells aren't very useful and/or they can be scrolled if you did need them. Angel of Vengeance is great to have for the Favored Soul.

When a Cleric joins a party a lot of people just see a healbot (even if the Cleric happens to be a great damage dealer). When a Favored Soul joins a party people expect them to do more. From my experiences at least.

Narfle_the_Garthok
02-09-2013, 01:38 PM
My first life on hops was a 28 point wf favored soul 20.
Toughness, adamantine armor, powerattack, quicken and empower always on, impr crit slashing.
dump wisdom, prep buffs and heals.
Get the bare minimum in cha, considering +6 item and possibly tomes. Put the rest in str and con.
Kick ass.

Matuse
02-10-2013, 11:26 AM
Lack of spell slots on a FvS is more than offset by the simple fact that almost all divine spells are useless garbage that aren't worth memorizing in the first place.

My alt-box cleric has a dozen or more spell slots filled with stuff just to have the slot filled; the spells never get cast.

Chaos Hammer? Order's Wrath? You're better off meleeing with a +1 club and a 10 strength.

Kinerd
02-10-2013, 02:17 PM
To illustrate the spell slot crunch...

A level 9 cleric has Raise Dead, Divine Punishment, and CLW Mass.
A FvS can't get all three until level 13, can't even get two until level 11.

A level 11 cleric has Heal, Blade Barrier, and CMW Mass.
A FvS can't get all three until level 15, can't even get two until level 13.

A level 8 cleric has DW, FoM, and Panacea.
A FvS can't get all three until level 11.

At level 20, this doesn't matter (unless you splash). While leveling, it is brutal unless you play your FvS as a self-healing (only) melee, and if you're doing that you may as well be a paladin and be much better at both.

SirValentine
02-10-2013, 04:48 PM
At level 20, this doesn't matter (unless you splash). While leveling, it is brutal unless you play your FvS as a self-healing (only) melee, and if you're doing that you may as well be a paladin and be much better at both.

Agreed that it's brutal levelling, but disagree that it doesn't matter at 20. It's still tough even then.

Torkzed
02-10-2013, 06:02 PM
I'll be the first to admit that I am not an uber power gamer, but I am flabbergasted by the suggestions that it is hard to level a melee fvs. I have capped a paladin, a barbarian, a wf wiz, wf sorc, and 18fvs/2ftr half orc.

While the wf arcanes were the easiest, the fvs was still fairly easy and far easier than the barb or paladin in my opinion.

To be fair, the paladin was my very first DDO character, and the FVS had luxury of a barb PL and decent leveling gear for THF fighting.

But, really...swinging a big ol' weapon and spamming self-heals as necessary...maybe some blade barrier action when kiting was a more useful strategy...FOM, DW, TS, resists, all available on demand...this was a dream compared to the barbarian.

I could solo BB elite through GH easily...got a little more challenging later, and I dropped to a hard streak around 18, but it was really pretty straightforward.

The only weakness was ranged combat (DCs are bad), but really that is no different than many melee builds.

Just my two cents...

Postumus
02-10-2013, 06:58 PM
At level 20, this doesn't matter (unless you splash). While leveling, it is brutal unless you play your FvS as a self-healing (only) melee, and if you're doing that you may as well be a paladin and be much better at both.


FVS are ridiculously easy to level IMO even now. The massive amount of SPs, DP, wings, BB, and shoulder cannon made it pretty easy for folks to run around kiting willy nilly. There was a reason that everyone was winging around on a FvS a year ago before EDs. Before EDs most of the soloed this, soloed that achievements were overwhelmingly favored souls.


Now with the AC changes and PRR, a paladin (once shunned by all) is a great option for a self-sufficient melee.

nni
02-10-2013, 07:13 PM
Having recently leveled two favored souls, I'd say that the rough spots are 1-8. Until then you are a weak melee with some decent crowd control options (command, sound burst, hold person) and a nice single target spell (searing light).

Once you get to 8 you get holy smite and it just picks up from there. Just with holy smite you can round up and destroy large groups of mobs at once.

Once you get to 10 you pick up flame strike, which further increases your aoe nuking capabilities. By this stage I rarely ever use a weapon. Simply rounding up mobs and casting both spells will kill most things on elite BB runs.

Once you get Blade barrier, there is no strategy needed for much of the content. Just run to the end of the quest spamming blade barriers whenever they come off cool-down.

The above strategy works even with a WIS dumped FvS, as even at half damage your aoe's will still rip through most mobs. Just don't bother killing archers. That's what the melees are there for. :)

Matuse
02-11-2013, 01:26 AM
To illustrate the spell slot crunch...

Going through each level's spell list, I have trouble finding more than 4 spells at any level that I actually care about memorizing. At some levels, I have trouble finding more than 2.

Divine spells are almost entirely rubbish. The handful that are good haul the dead weight of the rest. You can make a completely dominating divine by using about 8 spells in total.

The cleric "advantage"...just isn't. Yes, it's mildly convenient to get your next level spells a level earlier, but this is hardly the basis for superiority. Each level of the divine list needs to have 4-5 spells added that someone might actually want to use.

SirValentine
02-11-2013, 03:49 AM
Going through each level's spell list, I have trouble finding more than 4 spells at any level that I actually care about memorizing. At some levels, I have trouble finding more than 2.


That's too bad. I don't have that trouble.



Divine spells are almost entirely rubbish.


LOL.



The cleric "advantage"...just isn't.


It's a huge advantage to me. Or anyone else who knows how to use the awesome options the divine spell list presents.

SirValentine
02-11-2013, 03:54 AM
Once you get to 10 you pick up flame strike, which further increases your aoe nuking capabilities.


Interesting. I'd never pick up Flame Strike on a FvS at all, as there's simply no room for it.

Wipey
02-11-2013, 05:00 AM
Levelled clr two times, fvs two times and last life will be probably fvs too, so my perspective ( 90 percent solo, duo, group for Wiz king, GH, Necro if I recognize some people ):


A level 9 cleric has Raise Dead, Divine Punishment, and CLW Mass.
A FvS can't get all three until level 13, can't even get two until level 11.
Slay living first, scroll Raise ( never even memorize it ), then DP, start using heal scrolls


A level 11 cleric has Heal, Blade Barrier, and CMW Mass.
A FvS can't get all three until level 15, can't even get two until level 13.
Blade barrier first ( really it only sucks that you don't have it for Vons, Heal+quicken at 14 only if going to do Adq and some tanking, otherwise I get comet 2nd because scrolls are still enough.


A level 8 cleric has DW, FoM, and Panacea.
A FvS can't get all three until level 11.
First lvl 4 spell is absolutely holy smite ( really only aoe with soundburst ), then fom, then dw ( Tangleroot clickies until then, Panacea, huh don't even remember last time I saw it by anyone.


At level 20, this doesn't matter (unless you splash). While leveling, it is brutal unless you play your FvS as a self-healing (only) melee, and if you're doing that you may as well be a paladin and be much better at both.
I disagree. It sucks until 8 but then you have holy smite+soundburst ( of course you have to have plenty of sp and radiance item+maximize, so your newbie cleric probably doesn't have it ), some melee for Delera and until lvl 12.
And you really aren't serious comparing lvl 12paladin and caster fvs power, are you ? I would argue that lvl 12 divine is more effective than any 18 -20 melee. Elite OOB, Wiz king, Dreams of insanity, Mired in Kobolds maybe even Vol, elite Litany and hard Sins at 12 ( not sure what min level is ), your typical melee would have problems, it's a routine for fvs.
The " spell slot crunch " thing, not a big fan of splashing ( I really like the "relative power" at level, almost as much as greensteel from bank ) but they are still ok with BB at 14.

Interesting. I'd never pick up Flame Strike on a FvS at all, as there's simply no room for it. Yes, and it's slow, stupid targeting.

SirValentine
02-11-2013, 07:06 AM
Panacea, huh don't even remember last time I saw it by anyone.


Not critical, and probably wouldn't make the cut with FvS spell slots, but a nice way to free up inventory on a Cleric by not needing Restore, Blindness, Disease, or Poison pots.

Yes, you could just toss a full-blown Heal or Heal scroll, but this is cheaper.

Standal
02-11-2013, 07:10 AM
Trying to find out information for FvS, as a friend of mine bought the FvS pack and 32 point builds but is leaving ddo after only a month or two of playing (he has more $$ than sense, but I'm not saying anything ;) ).

Looking around on the forums, it seems that 90% of the FvS builds I'm finding are 2nd life builds, are there any FvS builds that are good for a 1st lifer who solos half the time? Or should I just 1st life a cleric and then TR into a Fvs?

I like the idea of using a 2H weapon + Heavy Armor and being able to self heal from the get-go, so any / all advice welcome and accepted.

Thanks in advance!

I'd go 18FVS/2Fighter. Dump wisdom, minimum CHA to cast your spells (likely 11+6 +2 from tome or enhancement on a first life) High Str and Con.

I'd probably choose Human to be able to get the full THF line, cleave, great cleave, quicken, maximize, overwhelming critical, Improved crit, PA. If you go Horc, you'll get some damage enhancements, but give up a feat. If you're totally melee focused, I would give up maximize.

I played a WF melee FVS up to 20 a few updates back. It was pretty decent as a soloist, but also raid/party heal. Given the current state of the game, you'll probably have to swap out some of your melee gear to heal.

Matuse
02-11-2013, 08:56 AM
LOL.

Love the selective editing.

Simple fact remains that for every Heal or Blade Barrier or Mass Death Ward, there are 10 Close Wounds, Fox's Cunnings, Panaceas, and Spawn Screens.

phillymiket
02-11-2013, 09:13 AM
FVS is awesome. :)

Maybe a Cleric is easier with auras and bursts for new player to heal with.

Certainly leveling a FVS is a waiting game for your favorite spells.

But a FVS, in the end, is a killing machine.

And leveling up isn't that bad.

You have massive SP.

I find you get mass cures just at the time when content gets hard enough that players actually stay together enough to cast them.

I find I get BB right at the time when you can really use it. (when just hitting something with whatever is in your hand won't cut it anymore)

In the end, I dont really want for any spells on my FVSs at all.

I would like to have True Resurrection but I can live with out it.

If I were new, knowing what I now know, I'd probably go with a Cleric 1st life but a FVS is certainly a doable, even powerful, 1st life character.

In fact, I didn't TR my Evoker FVS for a long while because I felt so effective even as a first lifer.

If I had to choose one or the other for my ultimate build it would be FVS all the way.
.

HungarianRhapsody
02-11-2013, 09:27 AM
To illustrate the spell slot crunch...

A level 9 cleric has Raise Dead, Divine Punishment, and CLW Mass.
A FvS can't get all three until level 13, can't even get two until level 11.

A level 11 cleric has Heal, Blade Barrier, and CMW Mass.
A FvS can't get all three until level 15, can't even get two until level 13.

A level 8 cleric has DW, FoM, and Panacea.
A FvS can't get all three until level 11.

At level 20, this doesn't matter (unless you splash). While leveling, it is brutal unless you play your FvS as a self-healing (only) melee, and if you're doing that you may as well be a paladin and be much better at both.

Raise Dead scrolls
Heal scrolls
Heal scrolls

Leveling up on your way to 20, the spell slots aren't significant most of the time if you're willing to carry a few scrolls. A stack of Heal scrolls is not all that expensive and will take care of most of your needs. When you consider how much of your SP goes toward healing yourself or other party members, that stack of Heal scrolls will also extend your blue bar quite a bit compared to a player who isn't willing or able to carry a stack of scrolls.

Special note: You don't need to USE a full stack of Heal scrolls on every quest. Just having that stack available makes a huge difference because you'll have them available to fling when needed and just a few Heals at the right time can make the quest go a lot more smoothly.

HungarianRhapsody
02-11-2013, 09:31 AM
That's too bad. I don't have that trouble.

I'm curious now.

Please list 4 spells at each spell level that are worth casting with your SP.

There are a couple of spell levels that I find tight in the Divine list, but not most of them.

phillymiket
02-11-2013, 09:21 PM
Ok, on playing my FVS tonight I will alter my position.

The only place I wish I was on a Cleric leveling up a FVS is VON 6.

I can't think of another point in a FVSs life that the content needs spells (mass cures in this case) that I don't have.

And even then I could have them but I've chosen BB, Slay Living and DP instead.
.

nni
02-13-2013, 12:24 AM
Interesting. I'd never pick up Flame Strike on a FvS at all, as there's simply no room for it.
What other level 5 spells do you pick instead for levels 10-12?

When I was levelling an evoker FvS, then sure I had slay living and greater command to choose from. But on a CON build, those are worthless, whereas the dps from flamestrike is great. And honestly I rarely ever used greater command on my evoker either, since dps is the name of the game most of the time while leveling.

It's not too hard to use it, it just takes a bit of practice to get the timing right. Most of the time I either have myself targeted or use hard targeting.

JDCrowell
02-13-2013, 01:17 AM
Clerics have their merits as do FvS. I have never leveled a Cleric, but know what they are capable of. I'd honestly say it's 50/50 for me.

I will say that I'd put my FvS up against any Cleric any day. I just love DPS casting. A full Evocation focused FvS does so much damage with PrE and full light damage. It's just a ton of fun. DC's can get really high especially if you have the spell pen for Implosion at end game.

I've leveled a Sorc, a Wiz, and a FvS. By far the FvS was my favorite, but with all casting classes painful to level until a certain point. Once a FvS gets BB, it's all down hill from there.

SirValentine
02-13-2013, 05:21 AM
What other level 5 spells do you pick instead for levels 10-12?


Only have 2 by level 12, 4 by level 15. Divine Punishment, Slay Living, Greater Command, and Mass Cure Light Wounds are all higher on the list for me than Flamestrike.

If I want an AoE nuke at those levels, the level 4 alignment spells are easier to target and include a CC effect.

SirValentine
02-13-2013, 05:53 AM
I'm curious now.

Please list 4 spells at each spell level that are worth casting with your SP.

There are a couple of spell levels that I find tight in the Divine list, but not most of them.

4? Why 4? FvS don't get 4 spells at each spell level, even at level 20. And during levelling, it's horribly worse. When FvS get their first 1 fixed spell of a level, Clr already have 4 slots freely play with.

During levelling, I find EVERY spell level tight, and even at level 20, spell levels 4-9 remain so.

I will cede that a high-level FvS won't find spell levels 1-3 tight anymore.

Which spell levels do you NOT find tight during levelling, or which spell levels other than 1-3 do you NOT find tight at high-level?

Wipey
02-13-2013, 06:29 AM
Only have 2 by level 12, 4 by level 15. Divine Punishment, Slay Living, Greater Command, and Mass Cure Light Wounds are all higher on the list for me than Flamestrike.
I was gonna write this, and those are never swapped for something else.

But on a CON build, those are worthless, whereas the dps from flamestrike is great.
Can't be that great dps if everything saves I guess.
Why would you level up in CON ? You have 700+ish hp in exalted with 1 toughness and 16 con. 800 with completionist. Can take etoughness with 17 and 4 tome if you really " need" it.
Is 75 more hp worth more than your whole spell book ?

Which spell levels do you NOT find tight during levelling, or which spell levels other than 1-3 do you NOT find tight at high-level?
Well level 3 is quite useless except protect energy and mana dump searing light for bosses while levelling. Levels 4+ there is always something useful.

voodoogroves
02-13-2013, 06:44 AM
4? Why 4? FvS don't get 4 spells at each spell level, even at level 20. And during levelling, it's horribly worse. When FvS get their first 1 fixed spell of a level, Clr already have 4 slots freely play with.

During levelling, I find EVERY spell level tight, and even at level 20, spell levels 4-9 remain so.

I will cede that a high-level FvS won't find spell levels 1-3 tight anymore.

Which spell levels do you NOT find tight during levelling, or which spell levels other than 1-3 do you NOT find tight at high-level?

Even on a non-DC FVS there are still tight levels. The trade offs and considerations for things like DW or mass DW, protect-elements or mass-prot ... even a melee-and-DC-ignoring FVS will have tight spots, though far less than the DC caster.



... CON build ...
The blob builds like this are like a melee build, without the melee capability. You won't hit the DCs so can ignore the DC spells, but you also will be lacking in the general DPS. DOT tank only goes so far.




FVS has to be played more focused, is all. Cleric has far more options in terms of spells.

Ballyspringer
02-13-2013, 10:27 AM
Melee FvS's are very do-able first life, but it's extremely beneficial to get a couple +2 tomes before you start it - cha and str. (Obviously con if you can also - but that's good for every toon.)

I love mine (granted it is a 2nd life, but just because I hated being a cleric first life).

here's some on my build if your giong for something similar which it sounds you are: hack and slash solo, but still able to solo heal raids - yes lower dps than some, but darn near impossible to kill, my friend calls this the energizer bunny toon

Horc - max str and +'s to THF, If you dont have horc human is solid also for the extra feat.

Pure 20 FvS - the reason is 2 extra cha (to cast spells with minimal cha investment at the start) and also - and a HUGE also - free healing! the free healing word (cure light wounds) at lvl 20 is a quick 50-150 hp with 0 sp. Doesnt' sound like much but it really is.

as for feats I'm sure many will disagree with me but this works great for what I want:

Great Swords while leveling - once you hit epic levels and get an epic antique swap this to great axes, or if you have an ESOS stay with swords. If you take WF you have greatsword as an auto grant to save a feat, but then you lose the free cure light wounds - which is not acceptable for me, especially if you want to run solo a lot, and being able to spam the free cure durring fights it saves a ton of sp between bosses in raids and in quests.

Power Attack
Improved Crit (I used keen swords (GS MinII) while leveling instead of taking crit, used this at 21 to swap to the epic antique/ESOS)
Quicken
Toughness
Empower Heal
Empower Spell (for blade barrier and divine punishment only - can easily be swapped out if you don't want them)
Maximize (on top of blade barrier and divine punish I use this for my mass cures in raids - it's rare even without using a devotion item (as it's currently hard to fit one on a melee FvS) that I need to use anything more than just mass cure moderate and cure critial wounds, and the occasional heal for anyone dumb enough not to be standing on the boss with me)
Cleave taken at lvl 24 (this is to use the cleaves from the dreadnought ED when you cap)

If you want to drop those last three and go more melee even than I did take the THF line instead, but I like variety, and on bosses and large mobs it's nice to have those two spells as your beck and call.

Crafting a Con Op greensteel item is important (as since you are front line melee you get hit a ton which = a lot of sp back)

This is the best type of toon to grind for a Torc - same reasons as above, was lucky enough to get mine on my 40th completion list.

here was my set up to start:

20 - as a first life I would drop this to start off with 18 str instead of 20, and if you have 32 point unlocked stay with 20 and drop int to 8 - all level ups here
8
16
10 (8 with 32 point build for more str)
8
10 with a +3 tome, 11 with a +2 tome, 12 with a +1 tome

nni
02-13-2013, 10:48 AM
Only have 2 by level 12, 4 by level 15. Divine Punishment, Slay Living, Greater Command, and Mass Cure Light Wounds are all higher on the list for me than Flamestrike.

If I want an AoE nuke at those levels, the level 4 alignment spells are easier to target and include a CC effect.
Well, like I said, on a low WIS build, greater command and slay living are not useful. Divine punishment is not something I use before level 14, definitely not before level 12. Mass cure light wounds is not something I need at that low level, as I'm mostly running in BYOH groups. If someone needs a heal I can throw them a single target heal.

And I absolutely agree that the lvl 4 alignment spells are great. Holy smite is always the 1st lvl 4 spell I take on a divine. However, after that I prefer to take freedom of movement, divine power and deathward. Any of those spells is more valuable to me than any other level 5 spell.

In addition, flame strike deals full damage to neutral and good creatures. That makes it a lot more useful against animals.

nni
02-13-2013, 10:51 AM
The blob builds like this are like a melee build, without the melee capability. You won't hit the DCs so can ignore the DC spells, but you also will be lacking in the general DPS. DOT tank only goes so far.
This is a discussion for another thread. Suffice to say that I already have an evoker FvS and it is lots of fun to play. I wanted to try a CON based FvS and see how I like it. I'm levelling it up as CON based because I don't want to burn an LR, in case I want to try a high CHA version at a later stage.

SirValentine
02-13-2013, 12:03 PM
Divine punishment is not something I use before level 14, definitely not before level 12.


Wait...you're suggesting that Flamestrike is great DPS, and saying you don't use Divine Punishment? <confused>



Mass cure light wounds is not something I need at that low level, as I'm mostly running in BYOH groups. If someone needs a heal I can throw them a single target heal.


I don't find single-target cures to work that well in Elite at-level VoN6. I want a mass cure. If you don't raid, I guess I could see skipping it.

As for the DC-based spells on a Wis-dumped build...if I were a Wis-dumped build, I'd be a Str build, and doing more melee DPS than some damage spell that everything makes their save againt. In that case, I'd be stocking up my spell slots with buffs.

HungarianRhapsody
02-13-2013, 12:18 PM
Wait...you're suggesting that Flamestrike is great DPS, and saying you don't use Divine Punishment? <confused>


I actually find that Divine Punishment isn't worth casting in most quests even at level 18. Enemies just don't have enough HP to make it worth the casting since it only becomes really effective on the second and third casting so that it starts to stack. Most enemies are dead fast enough that I would rather use a single shot spell instead of waiting for DP to tick through their HP.

I think it's an AMAZINGLY good spell - it's just a spell that isn't needed in many low and mid level quests because most enemies die fast enough that most of the spell's outstanding power is wasted. I do use it on bosses that have a reasonable pile of HP (any fight that is going to last more than 20 or 30 seconds). Those bosses are not common.

voodoogroves
02-13-2013, 01:04 PM
I don't find single-target cures to work that well in Elite at-level VoN6. I want a mass cure. If you don't raid, I guess I could see skipping it.
I only PUG raids, and I manage to hit VON and ADQ at level on every life. I make sure anyone with a heal-function has Quicken by 12 and if a cleric or FVS, has one of the masses.

As for the DC-based spells on a Wis-dumped build...if I were a Wis-dumped build, I'd be a Str build, and doing more melee DPS than some damage spell that everything makes their save againt. In that case, I'd be stocking up my spell slots with buffs.
And direct-damage spells (searing light, DP, etc.)

mrtweakin
02-13-2013, 01:09 PM
I find all this talk of missing spell slots and getting spells a level after clerics kind of odd.

The only thing I miss while leveling a favored soul is not getting blade barrier at level 11 where it can make VON 3 / 4 and Shadow Crypt a complete walk in the park. Without Blade Barrier, those quests can potentially be a pain to solo or short-man.

For the rest of everything? Scrolls. Seriously. ...and who cares about Death Ward prior to level ~12 anyway? For the rare occasions it is an issue everyone I run with has tangleroot clickies (often multiple).

The only real long-term advantage I find when leveling a cleric is the aura- it is pretty awesome.

nni
02-13-2013, 01:16 PM
Wait...you're suggesting that Flamestrike is great DPS, and saying you don't use Divine Punishment? <confused>
Yes, that is exactly what I'm saying. DP is great efficient DPS against single target with a very large HP pool (big enough that you can reach 3 stacks before it dies). Between levels 10-12 I can't think of more than one mob that I would need DP for (Velah).

Flame strike on the other hand is an AoE that deals more damage than DP in a shorter amount of time. It is perhaps to do with a gameplay style, but when I'm leveling, I gather as many mobs as possible and nuke them down with AoEs. Flame strike and Holy smite work great for this, especially at the aforementioned levels.


I don't find single-target cures to work that well in Elite at-level VoN6. I nt a mass cure. If you don't raid, I guess I could see skipping it.
Yes, VoN6 is the one occasion in the whole span of 10-12 where both MCLW and DP would be very useful. However, I rarely run it at level for bravery bonus.

Those levels go by really quickly and the chance of there being an lfm with people competent enough to make it a worthwile attempt is not very high.

I would much rather make my ability to run 99% of the quests much more efficient than sacrifice that in order to be better at running one raid, that I frequently skip while leveling. But that is of course, personal preference.

SirValentine
02-13-2013, 04:22 PM
I would much rather make my ability to run 99% of the quests much more efficient than sacrifice that in order to be better at running one raid, that I frequently skip while leveling. But that is of course, personal preference.


Heh, that was my point...my personal preference is to make my ability to run 99% of quests much more efficient by having more spell slots to work with, versus sacrificing that to have more SP to be better at hjealbotting raids. :-)

Some people just want a bigger hammer, some people like having a full toolset to work with.

(And a few people have gotten so used to just using a hammer that they can't even comprehend what the other tools are for, even when they're better for the job.)

OP, are you a bigger-hammer type, or a more-available-tools type?

EllisDee37
02-13-2013, 05:48 PM
Yes, that is exactly what I'm saying. DP is great efficient DPS against single target with a very large HP pool (big enough that you can reach 3 stacks before it dies). Between levels 10-12 I can't think of more than one mob that I would need DP for (Velah). Whisperdoom and Marut come to mind. Maybe some of the end bosses in framework. The demon optional at the end of into the deep, though that can be easily skipped. The end boss of necro3, especially since AoE can trigger a fail condition. And I suppose Lailat, though like Velah she's a raid boss.

Son_of_the_South
02-13-2013, 07:12 PM
Now that you mention it yes. I would switch between chaos hammer and orders wrath on my cleric while leveling, and on fvs I couldnt fit either of them.

As far as BB, when on a divine it's awesome but, I just leveled up an arti and my goodness is it annoying when divines spam that garbage all over the place kiting things around when I know the mobs would take one hit from mine and drop. But I can't cast it because it doesn't stack then they've overlapped theirs all over the dungeon.

The shoulder cannon, the aura, it's more like a crosshair for cometfalls and lightning bolts, it pulls argo from a room away before the door is even open. It's probably the main reason why fvs run through the dungeon casting blade barrier. At least they got rid of the sound effect.

If you cant target MOB's with your repeater/rune arm while they're being led around in a BB in your Archers Focus stance (and, most importantly, ignoring smashing you to smithereens) then sorry but you're doing it all wrong. In fact the BB's are helping you....rats in a barrel.

To the OP - you might find that, at lower levels, a melee FvS is great but at the higher levels might become a little trickier. Personally i like Evokers but you need to work on the DC's - past lives certainly help but aren't always a necessity (dependent on the difficulty you play)

HungarianRhapsody
02-13-2013, 11:25 PM
The shoulder cannon, the aura, it's more like a crosshair for cometfalls and lightning bolts, it pulls argo from a room away before the door is even open. It's probably the main reason why fvs run through the dungeon casting blade barrier. At least they got rid of the sound effect.

I missed this post before.

I *LOVE* the aggro magnet that FvS get with their aura. The fairy cannon (HEY! LISTEN!) doesn't take initial aggro, so you just have to remember to not summon your fairy in the Shadow fight in ToD. Aside from that, as a FvS, you know that aggro will go to someone who can handle it (i.e. YOU). That's a Good Thing(tm).

Also, you can turn off the aura if you don't want aggro.

Matuse
02-14-2013, 08:59 AM
Also, you can turn off the aura if you don't want aggro.

The only way to do that is to be invisible or sneaking. One is limited by access to potions/clicks, the other completely gimps your movement speed.

I asked for the FvS aura to be turned into a toggle when AoV was first released because it completely negated being stealthy...they made it turn off when you're hiding in some fashion as a temporary measure and promised to turn it into a toggle. Then they promptly forgot about it.

unbongwah
02-14-2013, 09:23 AM
I asked for the FvS aura to be turned into a toggle when AoV was first released because it completely negated being stealthy...they made it turn off when you're hiding in some fashion as a temporary measure and promised to turn it into a toggle. Then they promptly forgot about it.
Turbine forgot to implement something?! That unpossible!

:rolleyes:

Kinerd
02-15-2013, 12:05 PM
And you really aren't serious comparing lvl 12paladin and caster fvs power, are you ?As I said, I'm comparing a paladin and a meleeing, self-healing FvS. FvS have excellent group healing and casting potential, but that doesn't mean every FvS build can perform those tasks.
Raise Dead scrolls
Heal scrolls
Heal scrolls

Leveling up on your way to 20, the spell slots aren't significant most of the time if you're willing to carry a few scrolls. A stack of Heal scrolls is not all that expensive and will take care of most of your needs. When you consider how much of your SP goes toward healing yourself or other party members, that stack of Heal scrolls will also extend your blue bar quite a bit compared to a player who isn't willing or able to carry a stack of scrolls.

Special note: You don't need to USE a full stack of Heal scrolls on every quest. Just having that stack available makes a huge difference because you'll have them available to fling when needed and just a few Heals at the right time can make the quest go a lot more smoothly.I am familiar with scrolls. I stand by my diagnosis.

Lonnbeimnech
02-15-2013, 12:26 PM
If you cant target MOB's with your repeater/rune arm while they're being led around in a BB in your Archers Focus stance (and, most importantly, ignoring smashing you to smithereens) then sorry but you're doing it all wrong. In fact the BB's are helping you....rats in a barrel.

I was thinking specifically of a temple of vol farm I was in. We had a fvs and a cleric. The times they made it to the marut room with me, they would cast bb on top of mine, they dont stack, so mine didnt hit and they would run around casting 3 or 4 more bbs all over the room kiting the mobs, and the mobs would take 4 hits, not including me shooting them, before they dropped.

When I got to the room alone, I cast 1 BB, I stood in the middle and shot the marut as they closed in, 1 hit was enough to kill them. It was much quicker.

Divines do not get force enhancements, their bb is garbage compared to an arties.

Wipey
02-15-2013, 12:54 PM
Divines do not get force enhancements, their bb is garbage compared to an arties.

150 maximize, 75 empower, 120 impulse, 60 aov , major arcane lore ,15d6 ... 454 per tick , 9 % for 909 for fvs

Arty has 40 spellpower advantage so , 490 per tick, 18 % for 1347 crits.

Arty will never reach divine evo dc, not mentioning 3 times bigger sp pool. Divine BB is not "garbage".

If I am with good arty I will let them cast their bb, but there are many newbie arties too that cause the same problem you described for a divine.

Lonnbeimnech
02-15-2013, 01:31 PM
150 maximize, 75 empower, 120 impulse, 60 aov , major arcane lore ,15d6 ... 454 per tick , 9 % for 909 for fvs for an average of 494.95


Arty has 40 spellpower advantage so, 490 per tick, 18 % for 1347 crits. for an average of 644.26


Arty will never reach divine evo dcTrue, but for the most part, mobs that chase you through a blade barrier don't have evasion or good reflex saves, there are exceptions, spiders for example.


If I am with good arty I will let them cast their bb, but there are many newbie arties too that cause the same problem you described for a divine. Yeah, I can see your point there.