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squishwizzy
01-30-2013, 11:31 AM
Probably one of the *least* run packs I see on G-land. They are a fun set of quests. Problem is that the story arc is very long, there are no named items as end rewards, and thus very few people run them.

Here's are my thoughts:

1) Change the wilderness to be F2P.
2) Add two F2P quests to draw people to the island. These quests are completely disconnected frrom the original story arc.
3) The story arc is too long between the first and second parts of the chain. Break them up so that Hragg can allow you to repeat the Cult of the Six quests.
4) Add a couple of named items - one with a decent UMD buff.

There are a couple of spots that would be perfect for a coupld of F2P quests. The first is in the undead area - not a lot going on over there. The other is right by the boat.

As for adding named items, like I suggested maybe something with a decent UMD buff. There are very few of these in the game. Another would be a trinket that is craftable up to +8 (without needing the +6, +7, and +8 crystals to upgrade the deconstructed item). Make it BtC or BtA.

Loromir
01-30-2013, 11:34 AM
Probably one of the *least* run packs I see on G-land. They are a fun set of quests. Problem is that the story arc is very long, there are no named items as end rewards, and thus very few people run them.

Here's are my thoughts:

1) Change the wilderness to be F2P.
2) Add two F2P quests to draw people to the island. These quests are completely disconnected frrom the original story arc.
3) The story arc is too long between the first and second parts of the chain. Break them up so that Hragg can allow you to repeat the Cult of the Six quests.
4) Add a couple of named items - one with a decent UMD buff.

There are a couple of spots that would be perfect for a coupld of F2P quests. The first is in the undead area - not a lot going on over there. The other is right by the boat.

As for adding named items, like I suggested maybe something with a decent UMD buff. There are very few of these in the game. Another would be a trinket that is craftable up to +8 (without needing the +6, +7, and +8 crystals to upgrade the deconstructed item). Make it BtC or BtA.

There actually are named items. One in particular that I like for lower levels is the Mumified Bat.

Gauthaag
01-30-2013, 11:37 AM
did i miss something?

theres bunch of named loot u can get as end reward for completing the whole chain - mummified bat trinket, bubble belt etc., and one named weapon droping usualy at last quest of the first part.

also once u complete the whole chain, u have option to repeat both parts separately Darkmoon part and Co6 part. and for getting named shinies only repetition of co6 is needed

Gkar
01-30-2013, 11:39 AM
The biggest problem with the Island is the XP for the chains (especially the first one) is rather low and all the running back and forth to advance the quest can take as long as running some of the individual parts. An overall XP boost would be a good idea.

Loromir
01-30-2013, 11:42 AM
The biggest problem with the Island is the XP for the chains (especially the first one) is rather low and all the running back and forth to advance the quest can take as long as running some of the individual parts. An overall XP boost would be a good idea.


This area tends to mess with people's Bravery Bonus Streaks. The first quest out there is lvl 5 or so I think and the last one is lvl 10 I think. I may be wrong on the lvls but the range is too broad (Kind of Like Tangleroot Gorge).

voodoogroves
01-30-2013, 11:43 AM
It is definitely run, though pugging is harsh as it is a 10 quest chain.

I run it pretty often, though usually solo or shortman as the chain isn't rewarding to people joining in the middle. It's also a lot of running, but thankfully it is in an explorer zone and not in the seven layer stairs of hell that is the catacombs.

I may, in fact, run it later today. If I do though, I won't likely PUG it ... that takes way too long to fill and takes a long time to run too.


Unlike carnival / sentinels where the quests can be somewhat done out of order, given many of them use the same entrance that is somewhat difficult for Sorrowdusk. If they could open that up, that would help.

I'm also a fan of explorer area loot. A chance (very small) of end reward loot showing up in the rare chests there (or Tangleroot, or wherever) would give it some additional functionality.

Deathdefy
01-30-2013, 12:05 PM
I only ever run it either once solo (lower part at 6 from memory, upper part at ~9 or 10), or in a farm with people I know.

It's reasonable xp for windowing with people who know the quests, but otherwise you just can't justify the extensive travel time both to the island itself and even between each quest in the chain once out there.

The items are getting a revamp with U17 too I think, so maybe it will see some more action soon.

Memnir
01-30-2013, 12:12 PM
Sorrowdusk and Threnal both suffer from early-quest-syndrome, and both could really benefit from some redesign. However after 3BC, I'm not sure that'd be a wholly good thing. I used to run 3BC quests - now I don't, even though the area looks a million times more awesome then before. A redesign should make an area less of a hassle, not increase the hassle... which was what happened to 3BC. And I still enjoy and run SD and Threnal despite their flaws. As such, I'd hate to see a "fix" that is anything but.


Anyways. I've kinda given up on these quests, and a few others, from ever getting fixed. The Devs have always had other fish to fry, it seems - and now that they have the FR to play with I think these older Eberron quests are going to remain as they are in perpetuity.


P.S. It has named loot, and some of em are pretty decent items. True, most of it is garbage... but that's true for most chains' named loot.

Flavilandile
01-30-2013, 12:15 PM
ok, let see...


Probably one of the *least* run packs I see on G-land. They are a fun set of quests. Problem is that the story arc is very long, there are no named items as end rewards, and thus very few people run them.

The arc is very long and spread over a lot of levels, I agree with that.
But theres a lot of named items in there... and some of them are still used/usable at high level as swaps.
( Bubble Belt and Mummified Bat come to mind )

Now it's a very old story arc, that has been there since the begining.



Here's are my thoughts:

1) Change the wilderness to be F2P.


Even before that, a full revamp of the area would be good.
It's the first area that was put into explorer/slayer/rare mode ( before that it was like Threnal )
And I'm sure there's more things to explore in Sorrowdusk Isle...
Now as a VIP I don't care if there's F2P or not.



2) Add two F2P quests to draw people to the island. These quests are completely disconnected frrom the original story arc.


See above, as a VIP I don't care about F2P or not. But new quests ( maybe F2P, mid high level.. 18Ish say ) could help.



3) The story arc is too long between the first and second parts of the chain. Break them up so that Hragg can allow you to repeat the Cult of the Six quests.
4) Add a couple of named items - one with a decent UMD buff.


Nope, there's a reason why they are that way. You don't need to do Cult of the Six just after Doing Greey Moon Waning. Actually, initially Grey Moon Waning ( GMW ) was done long before you went ot Cult of the Six ( Co6 ).
When the cap was at 10, GMW was what you were doing between two parts of Deleras, just after Leaving the Catacombs and in the middle of Splinterskull.

There's no need for more named items, the list is already long enough.


The biggest problem with the Island is the XP for the chains (especially the first one) is rather low and all the running back and forth to advance the quest can take as long as running some of the individual parts. An overall XP boost would be a good idea.

I agree that nowadays the XP are a bit on the low side... But once upon a time the last two chapters of Co6 where the XP Farm ( best XP/min, along with Co6p2 before they nerfed it by adding doors. ). And you could get +1 and +2 Tomes from the final chests. ( yes chests )

But the XP problem is not limited to Sorrowdusk... there's a problem everywhere... there's easy quests that gives a lot of XP, there's fast quests that gives a lot of XP, there's long quests that gives low XP and there's tough quests that gives low XP.


This area tends to mess with people's Bravery Bonus Streaks. The first quest out there is lvl 5 or so I think and the last one is lvl 10 I think. I may be wrong on the lvls but the range is too broad (Kind of Like Tangleroot Gorge).

From 6 ( GMWp1 ) to 10 (Co6p6).

That's because it dates from the origin of DDO, the way we went into quests at that time was different from what we do nowadays... and especially it wasn't impossible to find parties for 1 part or another because everybody jumped from an arc to the other, as there wasn't any ******** Bonus to keep up. ( the bonus was calculated by comparing the level of the quest and the level of the highest member of the party... the biggest the difference, the higher the bonus... it was common to run GMW at LVL 3 at that time )
Nowadays with the ******** Bonus, you have to do complete chains, and you have to do them Elite, because everybody and the dog wants to keep that precious ******** Bonus Streak going.

( sorry for the rant, I hate the streak mechanism, I really prefer the old system where actually the bonus was earned through challenging the quest... running an Elite quest two levels lower than your level is not challenging the quest, running a normal quest 4 level higher than your level is challenging the quest. )


It is definitely run, though pugging is harsh as it is a 10 quest chain.

[...]

Unlike carnival / sentinels where the quests can be somewhat done out of order, given many of them use the same entrance that is somewhat difficult for Sorrowdusk. If they could open that up, that would help. [...] .

That's the big problem ( also the one of Catacomb and Splinterskull ), the quests have to be run in order.

cru121
01-30-2013, 12:18 PM
http://ddowiki.com/page/Update_17_named_items#Sorrowdusk_Isle_.28Cult_of_t he_Six.29
items had ML increased and got slots

squishwizzy
01-30-2013, 02:14 PM
Yeah, my bad on the named items.

This is especially embarassing since I remember now that I pulled the mummified bat recently. D'OH!

squishwizzy
01-30-2013, 02:28 PM
Now as a VIP I don't care if there's F2P or not.

See above, as a VIP I don't care about F2P or not. But new quests ( maybe F2P, mid high level.. 18Ish say ) could help.

I'm a VIP as well.

DDO decided F2P was their "loss leader," and to some extent it has been pretty successful. How many people do you know that have religiously stayed F2P? Odds are, it is not going to be a lot. Most of the people I know who went the F2P route either dropped DDO altogether (because they didn't want to pay for anything out of pocket), or went for quest packs.

I know when I was F2P, I bought quest packs of areas where I was able access stuff namely: Marketplace, Harbor, House K, etc. That's because as a new player I was exposed to these areas, and that led me to buying the quest packs. I don't think my experience is unique here.

Quest packs are Turbine's bread and butter. Despite all the other stuff they may sell, if people aren't picking up quests, the rest of the stuff in the store isn't going to sell either.

So, as a VIP you may not care about getting F2P people to pick up quest packs. I'm sure there are lots of people at Turbine who might disagree with you.



Nope, there's a reason why they are that way. You don't need to do Cult of the Six just after Doing Greey Moon Waning. Actually, initially Grey Moon Waning ( GMW ) was done long before you went ot Cult of the Six ( Co6 ).

That's not what I was suggesting. The problem is, if you want to repeat the Cult of the Six, you need to go to the original quest giver (the ogre near the boat) to repeat that section. Seems kinda dumb if you ask me. The quest itself is actually given by Hragg (technically).

kilagan800
01-30-2013, 04:07 PM
The biggest problem with the Island is the XP for the chains (especially the first one) is rather low and all the running back and forth to advance the quest can take as long as running some of the individual parts. An overall XP boost would be a good idea.

I agree with this this. The xp for the first 2 quests are around 600xp. Can they be raised to at least 1k?

Jasparion
01-30-2013, 04:11 PM
There actually are named items. One in particular that I like for lower levels is the Mumified Bat.

Bubble Belt is my favourite. Someone always forgets to bring underwater gear for Necro / Red Fens / whatever.

CaptainSpacePony
01-30-2013, 04:34 PM
This area tends to mess with people's Bravery Bonus Streaks. The first quest out there is lvl 5 or so I think and the last one is lvl 10 I think. I may be wrong on the lvls but the range is too broad (Kind of Like Tangleroot Gorge).

Tangleroot, sorrowdusk, threnal--all these suffer from the chain spanning several levels. I think it is an interesting structure, it does not mix well with bravery bonuses and streaks. I personally tend to solo these chains a bit at a time to take advantage of streaking.

squishwizzy
01-30-2013, 04:51 PM
Tangleroot, sorrowdusk, threnal--all these suffer from the chain spanning several levels. I think it is an interesting structure, it does not mix well with bravery bonuses and streaks. I personally tend to solo these chains a bit at a time to take advantage of streaking.

The thing I find curious is that I can usually get a group for Tangleroot, or at least I've been able to get one relatively easily in the past.

Frankly speaking, I'm not a fan of Tangleroot. I mean, sorta like how the quests advance, but I absoluetly hate having to run past the same scenery time and time again.

FranOhmsford
01-30-2013, 07:44 PM
Tangleroot, sorrowdusk, threnal--all these suffer from the chain spanning several levels. I think it is an interesting structure, it does not mix well with bravery bonuses and streaks. I personally tend to solo these chains a bit at a time to take advantage of streaking.

Tangleroot's not too bad - 3rd life and above you can do the last 6 quests in the chain at Lvl 7 and still not have to take Lvl 8.
Even after doing every other Lvl 5 and under quest with Elite Streak and ALL Slayers up to Tangleroot up to full!

I completed the lvl 5s {ignoring Carnival so it's there for Epic} and all explorers on a 2nd Life before taking Lvl 8 so I know it's not an issue for 2nd lifers unless rocking a load of XP Boosters either.


Sorrowdusk - Grey Moon is Lvl 6-7, Co6 is Lvl 8-10 - That's Bravery streaking at the end of Lvl 8 for Grey Moon and at the end of Lvl 10 for Co6 {So you can level up if need be after running the first two parts of each}.

Again - Not really an issue for 2nd/3rd lifers - 1st lifers will race thru these levels just by getting into Tear, VoN 3 and Shadow Crypt farms.
I personally prefer Once and done and Full Streak with Favour from all quests.


Now Threnal needs serious work!
The Quest Levels are all over the place - Later quests in the chain being lower level than early ones.
The Flagging can bug out too - Making people repeat East and West because South hasn't opened for them.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I've suggested Level changes in the adventure compendium before - http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=403601

But I'll reiterate for these 3 chains my ideas:

Tangleroot - Upgrade First Strike & Hobgobs Captives to Lvl 4 base, Downgrade Yarkuch {both parts} to Lvl 6 base.

Sorrowdusk - Upgrade Grey Moon 1 & 2 to Lvl 7 base {This would be a simple swap with the two Yarkuch Quests in Splinterskull}.

Threnal - The Rescue & In Need of Supplies - Upgrade to Lvl 9 {Can be reworked when Threnal ever gets a FULL rework - Just change Lvl of these two quests for now}.
Threnal Walk-Ups {Giant Caves and The Arena} - Add them to the Compendium Please!

I also would like to see Tangleroot slayer's max lvl upgraded to Lvl 8 and Sorrowdusk's to Lvl 12 {Same as the last two quests in each chain after my suggested change to Yarkuch.

And I'd love to see Threnal's Explorer Zone given the full Slayer treatment!

tfangel
02-02-2013, 02:15 PM
The first quest out there is lvl 5 or so I think and the last one is lvl 10 I think. I may be wrong on the lvls but the range is too broad (Kind of Like Tangleroot Gorge).

This has always been one of my favorite chains since launch, though i can't explain why exactly, but this has always been a gripe of mine about some of those early chains. They way you will start them at a certain level, but if you running them at level or near, they escalate to nearly twice that for other parts. I get you are fighting tougher enemies, and the story makes sense that way, but it's annoying to have to do part, then level up a bunch to get to the other part of the story. Tangleroot i feel the same about, though Threnal keeps them all around the same level.

Running the whole thing is time consuming, but as it's broken up nicely, not so bad, and there is little of that forced continuing through to the next part. The named items are ones i try to get on all character too.

The only annoying thing to me is the wilderness area, having to run back and forth so much, especially to sell and repair. I know the boat has that, but that adds even more running.

EnjoyTheJourney
02-02-2013, 03:54 PM
Sorrowdusk and 3BC are among my favorites because they have the atmosphere that I associate with D&D. There's also, in the end, a fair variety of mobs that you encounter in them, which sets them apart from the various missions and packs heavily populated with undead.

I'd look forward to running them on every character, even if nothing changes. That said, I wouldn't object to some buffs to gear.

kilagan800
02-04-2013, 03:28 PM
I don't know if it's just me but I have trouble resetting the Sorrowdusk chain. When I return to the original ogre to reset the first 4 quests he instead resets the second half of the chain and I can't play the first 4. I tried abandoning the quests but it says I can't abandon them while in progress. Am I missing something?

Memnir
02-04-2013, 04:46 PM
Am I missing something?
He resets two quest-lines.
If you want to repeat the first four quests, the ones on the lower island, make sure you are asking him to reset Grey Moon Waning. If you ask him to reset Cult of the Six, the ones on the lower island are still locked - and only the ones on the upper part are open to run again.

It's kinda confusing, because I think Co6 is the first option for repeating - and clicking fast can goof ya up. Happened to me a few times.

Hope that clears it up a tad. :)

CaptainSpacePony
02-04-2013, 06:09 PM
I don't know if it's just me but I have trouble resetting the Sorrowdusk chain. When I return to the original ogre to reset the first 4 quests he instead resets the second half of the chain and I can't play the first 4. I tried abandoning the quests but it says I can't abandon them while in progress. Am I missing something?

You are not, but what happened was you had him reset the 2nd rather than the 1st, which borks it all up. Had to learn that one the hard way myself... twice.

patang01
02-04-2013, 07:50 PM
Probably one of the *least* run packs I see on G-land. They are a fun set of quests. Problem is that the story arc is very long, there are no named items as end rewards, and thus very few people run them.

Here's are my thoughts:

1) Change the wilderness to be F2P.
2) Add two F2P quests to draw people to the island. These quests are completely disconnected frrom the original story arc.
3) The story arc is too long between the first and second parts of the chain. Break them up so that Hragg can allow you to repeat the Cult of the Six quests.
4) Add a couple of named items - one with a decent UMD buff.

There are a couple of spots that would be perfect for a coupld of F2P quests. The first is in the undead area - not a lot going on over there. The other is right by the boat.

As for adding named items, like I suggested maybe something with a decent UMD buff. There are very few of these in the game. Another would be a trinket that is craftable up to +8 (without needing the +6, +7, and +8 crystals to upgrade the deconstructed item). Make it BtC or BtA.

What they need to do more then anything is to make them all the same level. Same with all chained quests that are of different ML from start till end. It worked when the level cap was lower, but now it's silly. One of the reasons why I seldom run Sorrowdusk, it just doesn't fit into my plan with its disconnected leveling.

Make it level 8 across the board.