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stefferweffer
01-29-2013, 12:25 PM
I play 2 ways so far - solo with a hireling, or with 2 RL friends who each bring a hireling. I'm trying to figure out when the game gets harder based on group size.

1) Do Wilderness Areas scale by group size? If so, does it scale every time a friend joins you in the wilderness?
2) If I enter a quest with myself and a hireling, and a friend logs on and later joins me in the quest, does the quest scaling suddenly change mid-quest?
3) After a friend logs off, is it required that we drop them from the party (for scaling purposes), or does the game "know" that they are not in the area anymore and scale for the actual number of active players?

Thanks for your help.

EllisDee37
01-29-2013, 12:35 PM
First, scaling effects apply to 1, 2, 3 or 4 players. The 5th and 6th add nothing in terms of scaling. Hirelings count as less than a player; I think it's half. If it is half, that means 2 players with a hireling each would scale the same as 3 players.


1) Do Wilderness Areas scale by group size? If so, does it scale every time a friend joins you in the wilderness?Yes and yes, up to the 4th player.


2) If I enter a quest with myself and a hireling, and a friend logs on and later joins me in the quest, does the quest scaling suddenly change mid-quest?Yes. If you can see hit points via the Monster Manual you'll see the hp jump right before your eyes.


3) After a friend logs off, is it required that we drop them from the party (for scaling purposes), or does the game "know" that they are not in the area anymore and scale for the actual number of active players?Only being in the quest matters. If you're in a party with another person, and you jump in a quest while they're in the crafting hall deconstructing, you get the 1-person scaling because only one person is in the quest.

stefferweffer
01-29-2013, 01:25 PM
Thank you. So does scaling only make the traps/enemies harder, but not more numerous? In other words, quests and wilderness areas still have the same number of enemies, but just stronger?

AZgreentea
01-29-2013, 01:29 PM
Thank you. So does scaling only make the traps/enemies harder, but not more numerous? In other words, quests and wilderness areas still have the same number of enemies, but just stronger?
I'm pretty sure that scaling dosent effects spawns of mobs, only their HP and such. A different quest difficultly (Normal, Hard, Elite) will sometimes effects traps and spawns depending on the quest, but not scaling.

cdr
01-29-2013, 01:31 PM
Hirelings count as less than a player; I think it's half.

Standard hirelings are 0.5, gold seal are something like 0.2.

MnaSidhe
01-29-2013, 01:32 PM
First, scaling effects apply to 1, 2, 3 or 4 players. The 5th and 6th add nothing in terms of scaling.

I know that used to be true, but somewhere in another thread someone linked me a post from a dev saying that it now scales up to the 6th character!
Ill try and find the link!

AZgreentea
01-29-2013, 01:39 PM
I know that used to be true, but somewhere in another thread someone linked me a post from a dev saying that it now scales up to the 6th character!
Ill try and find the link!
The most recent that I know of was just post MotU. I think the patch he was referring to was 14.1, iirc.


As of the last patch the game should no longer be scaling UP based on party size, making it easier in full groups. It's currently balanced on a 4 person party. Adding a 5th or 6th doesn't affect scaling.

gphysalis
01-29-2013, 02:05 PM
Thank you. So does scaling only make the traps/enemies harder, but not more numerous? In other words, quests and wilderness areas still have the same number of enemies, but just stronger?

This is true, usually.

However, in challenges (i.e. cannith challenges) more people does mean more monsters.
This is in addition to hp scaling, causing double scaling in canith challenges, which is why it is usually better to solo if you can

EllisDee37
01-29-2013, 02:11 PM
Thank you. So does scaling only make the traps/enemies harder, but not more numerous? In other words, quests and wilderness areas still have the same number of enemies, but just stronger?As a general rule, scaling only applies to the damage you take* and enemy hit dice. Notable exceptions:

- Weapons Shipment. Pretty sure this adds in more mobs from scaling, but I can't say for sure.
- Challenges. In addition to all the normal scaling from quests, challenges also scale number of mobs.

In the example of challenges, each spawn will be one mob if you're true soloing. Bring in a buddy and now you get 2-3 mobs per spawn. Add a third and you're looking at 4-6 per spawn. It's ridiculously broken when you combine this with the normal scaling effect, and this is why doing anything more than 2-manning is counterproductive.

*The twisted talisman exchanges some of your hit points for spell points. Since damage you take is based on dungeon scaling, this item will actually show you the exact scaling in effect.

cdr
01-29-2013, 02:16 PM
The King's Forest scales number of mobs based on group size; I think all post-MOTU wilderness does but not sure.

mystafyi
01-29-2013, 05:25 PM
there are 2 types of scaling. one adds to the power of the mobs/spells/traps/ect. The other type adds to the amount of mobs in said dungeon.

Please dont quote dev's on the topic of scaling without mentioning the type of scaling they are refering too. Also, take any dev quotes about scaling with a grain of salt, since many of us have corrected the dev's incorrect answers on this subject. I love the old stand they had that elites did not scale.....