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Blue100000005
01-28-2013, 05:48 AM
I am trying to make a capable bard with a rogue splash. Is this really possible?

I was hoping for Bard 18/2 rogue. Can this be an effective build to actually trap? At bard levels skills for rogues are considered cross class and cant be easily kept at max. Any ideas?

apaurin
01-28-2013, 06:31 AM
My plan for next (3rd) life of my current drow virtuoso. Maxed trapping skills, i think it should be pretty viable.


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.14.02
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Pssyche
Level 20 Chaotic Good Drow Male
(2 Rogue / 18 Bard)
Hit Points: 242
Spell Points: 576

BAB: 14/14/19/24
Fortitude: 9
Reflex: 17
Will: 11

Starting Ending Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Base Stats Modified Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20) (Level 20)
Strength 16 23 23
Dexterity 15 17 17
Constitution 14 17 17
Intelligence 15 17 17
Wisdom 8 10 10
Charisma 12 14 16

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 1
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 1
+3 Tome of Constitution used at level 1
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 1
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 1
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 1

Starting Ending Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20) (Level 20)
Balance 7 9 9
Bluff 2 3 3
Concentration 5 5 5
Diplomacy 2 3 7
Disable Device 7 26 27
Haggle 2 3 3
Heal 0 0 0
Hide 7 7 7
Intimidate 2 3 3
Jump 8 10 10
Listen 0 0 6
Move Silently 7 7 7
Open Lock 7 17 17
Perform n/a 26 33
Repair 3 3 3
Search 7 26 33
Spot 4 23 30
Swim 4 6 6
Tumble n/a n/a n/a
Use Magic Device 6 26 26

Level 1 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+4)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Disable Device (+4)
Skill: Hide (+4)
Skill: Jump (+4)
Skill: Move Silently (+4)
Skill: Open Lock (+4)
Skill: Search (+4)
Skill: Spot (+4)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Bard
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Bard
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Feat: (Automatic) Attack
Feat: (Automatic) Drow Spell Resistance
Feat: (Automatic) Elven Keen Senses
Feat: (Automatic) Enchantment Save Bonus
Feat: (Automatic) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Shuriken
Feat: (Automatic) Heroic Durability
Feat: (Automatic) Immunity to Sleep
Feat: (Automatic) Light Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Rapier
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Shortsword
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Shortbow
Feat: (Automatic) Shuriken Expertise
Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Sneak
Feat: (Automatic) Sneak Attack
Feat: (Automatic) Spell Save Bonus
Feat: (Automatic) Trapfinding
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost I
Enhancement: Drow Weapon Damage I

Level 2 (Bard)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+4)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Automatic) Dismiss Charm
Feat: (Automatic) Fascinate
Feat: (Automatic) Inspire Courage
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Longsword
Feat: (Automatic) Shield Proficiency (General)
Enhancement: Bard Extra Song I
Enhancement: Elven Perception I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic I

Level 3 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+2)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+2)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Defensive Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Evasion
Feat: (Automatic) Sunder
Feat: (Automatic) Trip
Enhancement: Elven Keen Eyes I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Improved Search I
Enhancement: Improved Spot I

Level 4 (Bard)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+2)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage I
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song I
Enhancement: Bard Charisma I

Level 5 (Bard)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Automatic) Inspire Competence
Enhancement: Elven Perception II
Enhancement: Improved Perform I
Enhancement: Bard Wand and Scroll Mastery I

Level 6 (Bard)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell
Enhancement: Bard Extra Song II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Improved Perform II

Level 7 (Bard)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Elven Keen Eyes II
Enhancement: Bard Wand and Scroll Mastery II

Level 8 (Bard)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Automatic) Suggestion
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song II
Enhancement: Elven Perception III
Enhancement: Elven Keen Eyes III

Level 9 (Bard)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
Enhancement: Bard Charisma II

Level 10 (Bard)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Automatic) Improved Inspire Courage
Enhancement: Bard Extra Song III
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage II

Level 11 (Bard)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Automatic) Inspire Greatness
Enhancement: Improved Perform III

Level 12 (Bard)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Piercing Weapons
Enhancement: Bard Extra Song IV

Level 13 (Bard)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Bard Virtuoso I

Level 14 (Bard)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Automatic) Song of Freedom
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage III
Enhancement: Bard Virtuoso II

Level 15 (Bard)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Bard Wand and Scroll Mastery III

Level 16 (Bard)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Bard Wand and Scroll Mastery IV

Level 17 (Bard)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Automatic) Inspire Heroics

Level 18 (Bard)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic II
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic III
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic IV

Level 19 (Bard)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack II

Level 20 (Bard)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Automatic) Mass Suggestion
Enhancement: Elven Perception IV
Enhancement: Elven Keen Eyes IV
Enhancement: Improved Disable Device I
Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music I

cru121
01-28-2013, 06:34 AM
in this thread I posted a pic of how I leveled my skills on a rogue splashed bard
http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=348391

Bolo_Grubb
01-28-2013, 08:02 AM
I have a 18/2 bard/rogue virtuoso build that is a blast to play. I have yet to fail on a trap. This character is level 25 and has done some epic elite. So it is possible.

t0r012
01-28-2013, 09:04 AM
Bards get lots of skill points making them one of the easiest to keep your trap skills up.

Bards get 6+int mod skill points per level
So the two main trap skills of search and disable is 4 points
Leaving 2 points for your "important" class skills preform and UMD.

If you want spot you will need to put a couple points in to INT and or be human (which isn't a bad choice)

Don't worry too much about open locks as the two levels of rogue will give you spare points you can put in to OL. You don't need a ton of Points in OL to be effective. I have a rogue splashed bard at level 12 with 6 or 8 points in OL and no trouble getting any locks yet , even with out a +escape item at all. She does have a good bit of dex but with a +escape you could easily outstrip the dex mod I'm holding. (no twink so no tomes and I think a +4int item and skill gear that is a level or two below optimal)

Bart_D
01-28-2013, 09:24 AM
That should not be too much of a problem. I have a 16bard/2rogue/2fighter that does traps in epics without problems. She sometimes struggles with locks because I did not raise Open Locks much but then you can always retry.

I would definitely max Perform, UMD, Concentration, Search, and Disable. Spot is nice but not necessary if you either know where the box is or someone in party can point. Some ranks in Balance and Jump are nice too, and 1 rank tumble is a must. Open Locks may be worth putting more than 4 points into, but so far it has been enough for me. Then you might also consider Bluff and Diplomacy which are very rarely useful but who else would have them? A human with 14 starting intelligence gets a lot of skill points, and a +2 int tome at level 7 will give 13 more as well as boosting trap skills by +1.

I do not know how many build points you have, i would make sure to get 15 dexterity (so a dex+2 tome will let you get ITWF and GTWF) and 14 intelligence. Then good constitution, a little charisma and the rest in strength. Or more charisma and less strength depending what you will increase. With 28 points i would start with s14 d15 c14 i14 w8 c10 (increase str every level, use a charisma item to let you cast spells) and higher str/cha if you have 32 points.

t0r012
01-28-2013, 11:34 AM
Yeah forgot concentration , going to need a couple points of int to keep that max

Blue100000005
01-28-2013, 11:25 PM
32 point build, no tomes, i eat them as i find them.

Can you really open locks without a maxed modifier? I read restless isles and other places have 50+ to do, cant hit that with 4-6 points in it.

Jingwei
01-29-2013, 12:42 AM
4 Base open locks
-1 (assuming dexterity 8)
3 +6 dexterity item
15 Basic +15 skill item
4 greater heroism
1 good luck item (voice of the master, etc)
=
26
which lets you hit DC 50 on a 14 (35% chance)

If you try to pick the lock five times in a row, your total odds are around 89% for success.

And with much better gear:

4 base open locks
-1 (assuming dexterity 8)
1 +2 dex tome
1 ship dexterity buff
3 +6 dex item
20 skill item (epic utility vest)
5 stacking skill item (ventilated bracers, tinker's gloves, etc)
2 good luck item (cannith crafting, head of good fortune, etc)
4 greater heroism
5 epic skills
=44

Plus human skill mastery and even the servants of the overlord chest is pretty easy.

Blue100000005
01-29-2013, 03:47 AM
I appreciate the number breakdown. Also forgot that open locks was a roll, not a need it or not stat like spot.

Some builds i saw have almost no charisma, they nearly dumped it. What would be a viable build for this toon that would allow some decent fighting skills and still enough skill points.

I assume wisdom is a dump, but to be effective in combat, STR and CON cant be. CHA and INT are needed for skills. That seems to leave the character not super buff in stat columns. And i know there are tomes, like i said, i have a terrible drop rate for those so they are considered nill to me.

MnaSidhe
01-29-2013, 04:18 AM
Oops I read that as Barb! :-)
Even an 18/2 Barb-Rogue can have maxxed trapping /searching skills, get all traps... and evade even!

Jingwei
01-29-2013, 06:15 AM
Quickly throwing a build together gets:


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.8.1
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 20 Neutral Good Human Male
(2 Rogue \ 18 Bard)
Hit Points: 262
Spell Points: 529
BAB: 14\14\19\24
Fortitude: 9
Reflex: 13
Will: 10

Starting Ending Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Base Stats Modified Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20) (Level 20)
Strength 16 21 22
Dexterity 8 8 8
Constitution 16 16 16
Intelligence 14 14 14
Wisdom 8 8 8
Charisma 14 14 14

Starting Ending Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20) (Level 20)
Balance 3 3 3
Bluff 6 6 6
Concentration 5 26 26
Diplomacy 6 6 6
Disable Device 6 25 25
Haggle 2 2 2
Heal -1 -1 -1
Hide -1 -1 -1
Intimidate 2 2 6
Jump 6 9 9
Listen -1 -1 -1
Move Silently 3 3 3
Open Lock 3 7 7
Perform n/a 25 25
Repair 2 2 2
Search 6 25 25
Spot 3 21 21
Swim 3 6 6
Tumble 0 0 0
Use Magic Device 6 25 25

Level 1 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+4)
Skill: Bluff (+4)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Diplomacy (+4)
Skill: Disable Device (+4)
Skill: Jump (+3)
Skill: Move Silently (+4)
Skill: Open Lock (+4)
Skill: Search (+4)
Skill: Spot (+4)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
Feat: (Human Bonus) Toughness


Level 2 (Bard)
Skill: Concentration (+3)
Skill: Perform (+5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 3 (Bard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell


Level 4 (Bard)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 5 (Bard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 6 (Bard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons


Level 7 (Rogue)
Skill: Disable Device (+2)
Skill: Open Lock (+4)
Skill: Search (+2)
Skill: Spot (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 8 (Bard)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+2)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 9 (Bard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Cleave


Level 10 (Bard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 11 (Bard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 12 (Bard)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 13 (Bard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 14 (Bard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 15 (Bard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell


Level 16 (Bard)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 17 (Bard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 18 (Bard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell


Level 19 (Bard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 20 (Bard)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Bard Extra Song I
Enhancement: Bard Extra Song II
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack II
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery II
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery III
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage II
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage III
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song I
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song II
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song III
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song IV
Enhancement: Bard Warchanter I
Enhancement: Bard Warchanter II
Enhancement: Greataxe Training
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery III
Enhancement: Human Versatility I
Enhancement: Human Versatility II
Enhancement: Human Versatility III
Enhancement: Human Versatility IV
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic I
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic II
Enhancement: Bard Wand and Scroll Mastery I
Enhancement: Bard Wand and Scroll Mastery II
Enhancement: Bard Wand and Scroll Mastery III
Enhancement: Bard Wand and Scroll Mastery IV



With epic feats being great cleave and overwhelming critical. Note that you'll need at least a +1 tome to get str 23 @ lvl 24.

Replacing 2 bard levels with 2 fighter levels would get you two more feats, maybe stunning blow and improved sunder.

cathanasiadis
02-03-2013, 07:17 AM
Hello everyone i would like to make a question about a bard/rogue charachter but in a slightly different direction.
i was wondering if a virtuoso/assisin multiclass is possible to make. i have alraedy a pure bard lvl 14 virtuoso char and i must say that playing with bards is awesome.
now i just want to now if it's possible, dont want to bother you with details...

Matuse
02-03-2013, 10:41 AM
4 Base open locks
-1 (assuming dexterity 8)
3 +6 dexterity item
15 Basic +15 skill item
4 greater heroism
1 good luck item (voice of the master, etc)
=
26
which lets you hit DC 50 on a 14 (35% chance)

If you try to pick the lock five times in a row, your total odds are around 89% for success.


It's even easier than that. You forgot the +7 you get from using +5 thief tools, which are dirt common and have no level requirement.