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skaught78
01-25-2013, 01:44 PM
Hey folks! I need some help building a kick butt ranger. I have 32 pt build. My concerns are that rangers seem to need higher than 32 pt build to be really effective. But maybe I'm wrong and just need some guidance.
I know I need a high Dex to use my TWF.
But I also need high WIS to cast my ranger spells.
Combine this with needing high CON for H.P. and High STR for just fighting, and there just doesn't seem to be enough pts to go around. Here's what I did so far

Starting
STR 15
DEX 10
CON 15
INT 8
WIS 14
CHA 8

What is the minimum amount of WIS I need to cast Ranger spells?

Ty in advance!

Bellkar
01-25-2013, 01:49 PM
Firstly you dont need dex for TWF... rangers are an exception.
Rangers get a maximum of level 4 spells... so you need a total wis of 14 (including benefits from items but by then you should be able to get a +6 item).

Are you planning on more of a kick rear archer (arcane archer) or melee (tempest)?

It's a 28 pt build I have lying around... the extra points... well I am sure you can think of something!


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.14.02
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 20 True Neutral Halfling Male
(2 Fighter \ 18 Ranger)
Hit Points: 298
Spell Points: 429
BAB: 20\20\25\30\30
Fortitude: 17
Reflex: 19
Will: 10

Starting Ending Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Base Stats Modified Stats
(28 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20) (Level 20)
Strength 14 19 20
Dexterity 14 14 18
Constitution 14 14 14
Intelligence 10 10 10
Wisdom 14 14 14
Charisma 8 8 8

Starting Ending Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20) (Level 20)
Balance 2 14 14
Bluff -1 -1 -1
Concentration 6 23 23
Diplomacy -1 -1 -1
Disable Device n/a n/a n/a
Haggle -1 -1 -1
Heal 2 2 2
Hide 6 25 29
Intimidate -1 -1 -1
Jump 6 11 13
Listen 2 2 4
Move Silently 6 25 27
Open Lock n/a n/a n/a
Perform n/a n/a n/a
Repair 0 0 0
Search 4 20 20
Spot 6 23 23
Swim 2 5 5
Tumble n/a n/a n/a
Use Magic Device n/a n/a n/a

Level 1 (Ranger)
Skill: Concentration (+4)
Skill: Hide (+4)
Skill: Jump (+4)
Skill: Move Silently (+4)
Skill: Search (+4)
Skill: Spot (+4)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Human
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Feat: (Automatic) Attack
Feat: (Automatic) Bow Strength
Feat: (Automatic) Defensive Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Halfling Agility
Feat: (Automatic) Halfling Bravery
Feat: (Automatic) Halfling Keen Ears
Feat: (Automatic) Halfling Luck
Feat: (Automatic) Halfling Size Bonus
Feat: (Automatic) Halfling Thrown Weapon Focus
Feat: (Automatic) Heroic Durability
Feat: (Automatic) Light Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency (ALL)
Feat: (Automatic) Shield Proficiency (General)
Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Sneak
Feat: (Automatic) Sunder
Feat: (Automatic) Trip
Feat: (Automatic) Wild Empathy
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage I
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Defense I


Level 2 (Ranger)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Feat: (Automatic) Rapid Shot
Feat: (Automatic) Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Ranger Sprint Boost I
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Resistance I
Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity I


Level 3 (Ranger)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Point Blank Shot
Feat: (Automatic) Archer's Focus
Feat: (Automatic) Diehard
Enhancement: Halfling Dexterity I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I


Level 4 (Ranger)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Feat: (Automatic) Precise Shot
Enhancement: Ranger Swamp Lore I
Enhancement: Ranger Desert Lore I
Enhancement: Ranger Devotion I
Enhancement: Ranger Devotion II
Enhancement: Ranger Energy of the Wild I


Level 5 (Ranger)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider
Enhancement: Ranger Item Defense I
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage II


Level 6 (Ranger)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Ranged Weapons
Feat: (Automatic) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Manyshot
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity II


Level 7 (Ranger)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Feat: (Automatic) Improved Wild Empathy
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Attack I


Level 8 (Ranger)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Enhancement: Halfling Dexterity II


Level 9 (Ranger)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Mental Toughness
Feat: (Automatic) Evasion
Enhancement: Ranger Arcane Archer: Imbue Force Arrows
Enhancement: Ranger Arcane Archer: Conjure +2 Arrows
Enhancement: Ranger Arcane Archer I


Level 10 (Ranger)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Elemental
Enhancement: Ranger Arcane Archer: Imbue Acid Arrows
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage III


Level 11 (Ranger)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Feat: (Automatic) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Improved Precise Shot
Enhancement: Ranger Swamp Lore II
Enhancement: Ranger Desert Lore II


Level 12 (Ranger)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Ranged Weapons
Enhancement: Ranger Arcane Archer: Imbue Explosive Arrows
Enhancement: Ranger Arcane Archer: Conjure +3 Arrows


Level 13 (Ranger)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Enhancement: Halfling Luck (Reflex) I
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Attack II


Level 14 (Ranger)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Enhancement: Halfling Luck (Reflex) II
Enhancement: Halfling Luck (Reflex) III


Level 15 (Ranger)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Aberration
Feat: (Selected) Oversized Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Ranger Arcane Archer: Imbue Force Burst Arrows
Enhancement: Ranger Arcane Archer: Imbue Terror Arrows
Enhancement: Ranger Arcane Archer: Conjure +4 Arrows


Level 16 (Ranger)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage IV


Level 17 (Ranger)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Enhancement: Ranger Swamp Lore III


Level 18 (Ranger)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Enhancement: Ranger Arcane Archer: Imbue Slaying Arrows
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Defense II
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Resistance II
Enhancement: Ranger Arcane Archer: Conjure +5 Arrows


Level 19 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Khopesh
Feat: (Automatic) Heavy Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Medium Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Tower Shield Proficiency
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I


Level 20 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Armored Agility I
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I
Enhancement: Halfling Cunning I
Enhancement: Halfling Luck (Will) I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I

Fedora
01-25-2013, 02:01 PM
A 32 point Human build:

STR 16
DEX 16
CON 16
INT 8
WIS 10
CHA 8

All level-ups into STR.

By the time you can use spells you only need a +1 WIS item, get better items as you level up, WIS/Spells never really an issue.

If you like, grab 1 or 2 of the Ranger DEX enhancements. As was stated, Rangers don't need the 17 DEX for the 2WF chain.

MnaSidhe
01-25-2013, 02:09 PM
It's a 28 pt build I have lying around... the extra points... well I am sure you can think of something!
-snip-


I'd put the extra 4 points in CON and leave away the second toughness feat (L18) for something more productive.

Jingwei
01-25-2013, 06:39 PM
Here's a pretty basic melee ranger build:


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.8.1
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 20 True Neutral Human Male
(1 Fighter \ 1 Rogue \ 18 Ranger)
Hit Points: 302
Spell Points: 225
BAB: 19\19\24\29\29
Fortitude: 16
Reflex: 17
Will: 6

Starting Ending Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Base Stats Modified Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20) (Level 20)
Strength 16 21 22
Dexterity 14 15 18
Constitution 16 16 17
Intelligence 12 12 12
Wisdom 10 10 10
Charisma 8 8 8

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 17

Starting Ending Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20) (Level 20)
Balance 6 8 8
Bluff -1 -1 -1
Concentration 5 26 26
Diplomacy 3 3 3
Disable Device 5 24 24
Haggle -1 -1 -1
Heal 0 0 0
Hide 2 4 4
Intimidate -1 -1 -1
Jump 3 6 6
Listen 0 0 0
Move Silently 6 9 9
Open Lock 6 14 14
Perform n/a n/a n/a
Repair 1 1 1
Search 5 24 24
Spot 4 23 23
Swim 3 6 6
Tumble 6 8 8
Use Magic Device 3 22 22

Level 1 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+4)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Diplomacy (+4)
Skill: Disable Device (+4)
Skill: Move Silently (+4)
Skill: Open Lock (+4)
Skill: Search (+4)
Skill: Spot (+4)
Skill: Tumble (+4)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
Feat: (Selected) Dodge
Feat: (Human Bonus) Mobility


Level 2 (Ranger)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Undead


Level 3 (Ranger)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 4 (Ranger)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 5 (Ranger)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 6 (Ranger)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Construct
Feat: (Selected) Spring Attack


Level 7 (Ranger)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 8 (Ranger)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 9 (Ranger)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 10 (Ranger)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 11 (Ranger)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider


Level 12 (Ranger)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack


Level 13 (Ranger)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 14 (Fighter)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Cleave


Level 15 (Ranger)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Khopesh


Level 16 (Ranger)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+2)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 17 (Ranger)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Elf


Level 18 (Ranger)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Defense


Level 19 (Ranger)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 20 (Ranger)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Ranger Sprint Boost I
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I
Enhancement: Human Greater Adaptability Constitution I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery III
Enhancement: Human Versatility I
Enhancement: Human Versatility II
Enhancement: Human Versatility III
Enhancement: Human Versatility IV
Enhancement: Ranger Item Defense I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness III
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage I
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage II
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage III
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Resistance I
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Resistance II
Enhancement: Ranger Tempest I
Enhancement: Ranger Tempest II
Enhancement: Ranger Tempest III
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Ranger Devotion I
Enhancement: Ranger Devotion II
Enhancement: Ranger Devotion III
Enhancement: Ranger Devotion IV
Enhancement: Ranger Energy of the Wild I
Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity I
Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity II
Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity III
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
Enhancement: Rogue Improved Trap Sense I



Note that you need a +1 dex tome or better by lvl 17, to be able to take two weapon defense at 18. If for some reason, you haven't got one yet, you can take lightning reflexes instead.

Epic feats are great cleave and overwhelming critical.

Exotic weapon proficiency: kopwsh delayed, since most first lifers won't have the money or the luck to get some good kopeshes until late. If you have the cannith challenge pack, though, move prof: kopesh down several levels, because you'll want to use kopeshes of water.

At the end was just buying 'whatever' with enhancement points, didn't see anything really compelling to spend them on. So there's a lot of choice open to you in where to put your points.

For casting spells, the wisdom granted by items is good enough to meet the requirement, so putting points into wisdom isn't really important. If you were worried about getting a +1 tome by lvl 17, then you could start with dex 15 instead of wisdom 10 without any problems. Though you may have trouble finding a wisdom item to allow your spellcasting until lvl 10 or so.

unbongwah
01-25-2013, 08:42 PM
See my Tempest trapmonkey thread. A few pointers about rangers:


Rangers always get their TWF & ranged feats free regardless of what their base DEX is. However, Tempests do need base DEX 13 for the Dodge/Mobility/Spring Atk chain; also, if you want TWD (one of the possible Tempest III pre-reqs), you need base DEX 15.
All casters need 10 + <spell lvl> in their caster stat; so for rgrs that means hitting WIS 14 for their lvl 4 spells. Fortunately, WIS bonuses like items or Owl's WIS count; so most ranger builds dump WIS unless you're going for some sort of monk-based multiclass.
Tempest II (rgr 12) is currently seen as the DPS "sweet spot" for rgr-based builds, as Tempest III doesn't add a lot of DPS. I still recommend newbies stick with a mostly-pure rgr build, though, at least until you get the hang of the class. In addition to Tempest III, the extra rgr lvls add a fourth Favored Enemy and lvl 4 spells (FOM and CSW being the most useful). Plus if we're lucky Turbine will finally get around to buffing Tempest when they finally finish the Enhancement overhaul. :)

Enguebert
01-28-2013, 01:41 AM
As i play a ranger, here is my feedback about WIS

Starting with 8 WIS can be enough for casting spell as you need to reach 11 wis for lvl 4, 12 for lvl 8, 13 for lvl 12 and 14 for lvl 16.
But for a first life, it can be tricky to find a +3 or +4 WIS item soon enough. Starting with 10 WIS will solve the problem, but if you are in a guild or have higher level friend, you can start with 8 WIS without any problem

For the spell points, rangers don't have lot of nice spells, so usually you have more than enough SP to buff you and use the rest to cast cure spells

The only problem that you can have with low starting WIS is that you MUST have the +Item with you, so if your item break, you cannot cast anymore ! So if you have room in your backpack, keep another WIS item with you :-)

skaught78
01-29-2013, 08:13 PM
Do Ranges need to put skill points in UMD or do they get it automatically?

Also, do they need Concentration for their spell casting?

Jingwei
01-29-2013, 09:31 PM
your questions seem to indicate a misunderstanding somewhere further back in your understanding of sklls somewhere.

Try my explanation here (http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=4286510&postcount=6)

And no, ranger's don't get UMD automatically. It's a sill just like any other, you have to put skill points into it. In addition, UMD only appears in the class skill lists of bard, rogue, and artificaer. So if you want full ranks of it, you need to have at least one level of any of those classes in your build.

On concentration:
Concentration is not 'needed' to cast spells.
The quicken metamagic feat keeps you from failing a concentration check while trying to cast, so you can just run with quicken spell turned on all the time, and not worry about the incoming damage causing a spell failure.

But, the quicken spell feat does not work on scroll use. So, for example, if you want to use a heal scroll during combat, it can be really helpful to have concentration.