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Mr.Luigi
01-14-2013, 02:25 AM
Hello. I'm almost completely new to D&D. Not even sure what the difference between a will and fort save is.

Two things I wanted to ask. First is that what version of the D&D handbook would be most useful for DDO. I have the hard-bound DND 4.0 handbook but it seems very different, the magic shop in town is "cool" and will probably just let me swap it out (it's mint condition) for 3.0 or 3.5.

The other thing I wanted to ask was about a Human (maybe dwarf) ranger/tempest 18 / barbarian 2 class template. The choice of dual-classing is also for RP reasons (some of us favor the old gods over the new). Two things, I want to be able to tank/off tank in small group / large "raid" content respectively, which leads me to the 2nd point, this is an AC build (which i hear means ac of 50+). Well, one more thing, gotta have UMD (small pug grouping).

Anyway, i'm Googling around old forum posts. Thanks for your time.

Mr.Luigi
01-14-2013, 03:12 AM
What I've came up with so far is using the Ranger 18 rogue 1 fighter 1 build in this thread
http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=232660 (the regular strength based / kopsesh version)

And going 2 barb
Instead of the four fighter/rogue enhancements, i'm thinking barbarian 2 rage boost / 2 extra rage enhancments. This being a dps boost to compete with fighter damage / rogue haste.

An alternative could be getting constitution enhancements instead of "extend rage". Just be sure you're landing it on an even number. However end game, with gear (28-30+ con) you're looking at way more time from the 50% extension.

I'm just not sure if there are any major pitfalls to this build.

I'm also considering Ranger 18, rogue 1, barb 1, similar to the previous build but perhaps still keeping rogue haste boost 1.

Mr.Luigi
01-14-2013, 04:43 AM
Looks like this build will only grant 1 rage, could get an extra rage by going barb lvl 2, but then you loose all the rogue stuffs. =/

Charononus
01-14-2013, 05:45 AM
DDO is loosely based around 3.5 if that helps. That said there are enough differences that I think ddowiki.com would be of more help to you in learning the game than a player's handbook. That said the handbooks and monster manuals are fun in an of themselves imo.

As far as ranger 18/2 barb. I don't think it would be that great of a split though like most builds it could be made to work. Even if you don't want trap skills I think I'd go 18 ranger 1 rogue 1 fighter. I assume you are doing a tempest build.

Here's my reasons:

1)Even if you don't go for trap skills, 1 rogue level will unlock full ranks of umd (just requires 2 skill points per level on ranger levels) This lets you get to no fail usage on heal scrolls, raise scrolls, teleport scrolls, and fireshield scrolls much much easier. These spells will boost your survivablity, utility, and let you save the day at times if other team members die. Other scrolls such as tensors will up your dps. UMD is a very very powerful ability. Barb Rage keeps you from being able to use scrolls while it's active, and I think a tensor scroll will provide the same benefit as a small barb splash without the downside. 1 rogue level will also provide a small amount of sneak damage.

2)1 Fighter level gives you another feat. Tempest rangers are a little feat starved with some of the feats they need. This will let you take something like stunning blow if you haven't already to help with group tactics.

I hope this helps, and like I said while 18/2 ranger barb could be made to work, it may not be the best choice.

Mr.Luigi
01-14-2013, 06:05 AM
DDO is loosely based around 3.5 if that helps. That said there are enough differences that I think ddowiki.com would be of more help to you in learning the game than a player's handbook. That said the handbooks and monster manuals are fun in an of themselves imo.

As far as ranger 18/2 barb. I don't think it would be that great of a split though like most builds it could be made to work. Even if you don't want trap skills I think I'd go 18 ranger 1 rogue 1 fighter. I assume you are doing a tempest build.

Here's my reasons:

1)Even if you don't go for trap skills, 1 rogue level will unlock full ranks of umd (just requires 2 skill points per level on ranger levels) This lets you get to no fail usage on heal scrolls, raise scrolls, teleport scrolls, and fireshield scrolls much much easier. These spells will boost your survivablity, utility, and let you save the day at times if other team members die. Other scrolls such as tensors will up your dps. UMD is a very very powerful ability. Barb Rage keeps you from being able to use scrolls while it's active, and I think a tensor scroll will provide the same benefit as a small barb splash without the downside. 1 rogue level will also provide a small amount of sneak damage.

2)1 Fighter level gives you another feat. Tempest rangers are a little feat starved with some of the feats they need. This will let you take something like stunning blow if you haven't already to help with group tactics.

I hope this helps, and like I said while 18/2 ranger barb could be made to work, it may not be the best choice.

I settled on what you suggested, ranger 18 rogue 1 fighter 1, starting as a rogue and then taking fighter at 6, I'm pretty much following the guide in the above post to the letter, straying none from the suggested template except that I am running a 32 point build with the extra 4 points in INT. The reason being I'm putting points into disable trap and pick lock and Spot as well as UMD and Concentration.

Originally I had thought Ranger 18 Rogue 1 Barbarian 1 would be nice, but gaining only one rage per rest seemed wastefull. Perhaps with destiny points at end-game it could become useful?

Concentrataion is going to be my low skill. I also put some starting points in haggle sneak / hide and am hoping to be able to use those abilities in solo play or in certain situations.

Mr.Luigi
01-14-2013, 06:16 AM
Also, to fullfill roleplaying purposes and living out the Nordic fantasy of my dreams it looks like i can just pickup Fury of the Wild. =D

It looks like Id get more "barb stuff" from taking 18/2 ranger/barb or than even from 14/6.

Mr.Luigi
01-14-2013, 08:46 AM
I actually found a Ranger 18 / Rogue 1 / Barbarian 1 build that looks nice.

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=277496

It's one of unbongwah's builds, he seems to be somewhat reveared in build-making.

The difference in the Fighter vs Barbarian plash comes down to this.

Fighters gets a bonus feat - unbongwah reccomends "maximize healing spell".

Barbarians get 1 rage/rest and a 10% run speed boost; they don't get the extra feat.

unbongwah
01-14-2013, 10:08 AM
The other thing I wanted to ask was about a Human (maybe dwarf) ranger/tempest 18 / barbarian 2 class template. The choice of dual-classing is also for RP reasons (some of us favor the old gods over the new). Two things, I want to be able to tank/off tank in small group / large "raid" content respectively, which leads me to the 2nd point, this is an AC build (which i hear means ac of 50+). Well, one more thing, gotta have UMD (small pug grouping).
First off, welcome to DDO. :)

Second, I think you're trying to do too much with this build. In particular, if you want a first-life tank, I strongly suggest you stick with a pure ftr or pally (either pure or pal 18 / ftr 2) S&B build. "True" DDO tanking is a full-time profession and works best if you dedicate yourself to it. And the tanking bonuses from Stalwart Defender / Defender of Siberys PrEs (ftr and pally, respectively) are too good to pass up. Plus wherever you read "AC 50+" is sufficient for tanking must be badly outdated. :eek:

Third, if you really want a rgr / barb split, I recommend rgr 12 / barb 6, probably with rog or ftr 2 to round it out. Rgr 12 / Tempest II is seen as the "sweet spot" for MCed rgrs these days; while barb 6 will let you add Frenzied Berserker, extra Rages, etc.

Finally, while still solid IMHO, I haven't updated my Tempest trapmonkey builds in a loooong time; they don't reflect the latest changes in DDO. Keep meaning to get to updating them eventually... :o

unbongwah
01-14-2013, 10:50 AM
Third, if you really want a rgr / barb split, I recommend rgr 12 / barb 6, probably with rog or ftr 2 to round it out.
Sample build:

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.14.02
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 20 True Neutral Dwarf Female
(6 Barbarian \ 2 Rogue \ 12 Ranger)
Hit Points: 422
Spell Points: 140
BAB: 19\19\24\29\29
Fortitude: 20
Reflex: 17
Will: 5

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(28 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 16 23
Dexterity 14 18
Constitution 18 24
Intelligence 10 10
Wisdom 8 8
Charisma 6 6

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 20
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 20
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 20

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20)
Balance 6 12
Bluff -2 -2
Concentration 4 7
Diplomacy -2 -2
Disable Device 4 20
Haggle -2 -2
Heal -1 -1
Hide 2 4
Intimidate -2 -2
Jump 7 10
Listen -1 -1
Move Silently 2 4
Open Lock 6 16
Perform n/a n/a
Repair 0 0
Search 4 22
Spot 3 11
Swim 3 6
Tumble 6 8
Use Magic Device 2 21

Level 1 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+4)
Skill: Disable Device (+4)
Skill: Jump (+4)
Skill: Open Lock (+4)
Skill: Search (+4)
Skill: Spot (+4)
Skill: Tumble (+4)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
Feat: (Selected) Dodge


Level 2 (Ranger)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Undead


Level 3 (Ranger)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Mobility


Level 4 (Barbarian)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)


Level 5 (Ranger)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+2)
Skill: Spot (+2)


Level 6 (Ranger)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Spring Attack


Level 7 (Ranger)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Giant


Level 8 (Ranger)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Enhancement: Barbarian Damage Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Damage I
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Damage II
Enhancement: Dwarven Constitution I
Enhancement: Dwarven Constitution II
Enhancement: Dwarven Spell Defense I
Enhancement: Dwarven Spell Defense II
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage I
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage II
Enhancement: Ranger Tempest I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity I
Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity II
Enhancement: Rogue Improved Trap Sense I


Level 9 (Rogue)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+8)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 10 (Ranger)
Skill: Disable Device (+2)
Skill: Search (+2)


Level 11 (Ranger)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1.5)


Level 12 (Ranger)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1.5)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 13 (Ranger)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider


Level 14 (Ranger)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 15 (Ranger)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
Enhancement: Barbarian Power Attack I
Enhancement: Dwarven Spell Defense III
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness III
Enhancement: Racial Toughness IV
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage III
Enhancement: Ranger Tempest II
Enhancement: Barbarian Toughness I
Enhancement: Rogue Wand and Scroll Mastery I


Level 16 (Barbarian)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 17 (Barbarian)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 18 (Barbarian)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Cleave


Level 19 (Barbarian)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 20 (Barbarian)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Barbarian Damage Boost II
Enhancement: Barbarian Extend Rage I
Enhancement: Barbarian Extend Rage II
Enhancement: Barbarian Extra Rage I
Enhancement: Barbarian Extra Rage II
Enhancement: Barbarian Power Attack II
Enhancement: Barbarian Power Rage I
Enhancement: Barbarian Power Rage II
Enhancement: Barbarian Frenzied Berserker I
Enhancement: Barbarian Constitution I
Enhancement: Barbarian Constitution II
Enhancement: Barbarian Toughness II


Epic feats: Great Cleave & Overwhelming Critical

There's actually a lot of APs to play around with here, once the Tempest & FB pre-reqs are taken care of. You can see I maxed out CON & Toughness enhs; but you could also put them into Devotion, Sprint Boost, or whatever else takes your fancy.

bibimbap
01-28-2013, 09:40 AM
Hello. I'm almost completely new to D&D. Not even sure what the difference between a will and fort save is.

Two things I wanted to ask. First is that what version of the D&D handbook would be most useful for DDO. I have the hard-bound DND 4.0 handbook but it seems very different, the magic shop in town is "cool" and will probably just let me swap it out (it's mint condition) for 3.0 or 3.5.

The other thing I wanted to ask was about a Human (maybe dwarf) ranger/tempest 18 / barbarian 2 class template. The choice of dual-classing is also for RP reasons (some of us favor the old gods over the new). Two things, I want to be able to tank/off tank in small group / large "raid" content respectively, which leads me to the 2nd point, this is an AC build (which i hear means ac of 50+). Well, one more thing, gotta have UMD (small pug grouping).

Anyway, i'm Googling around old forum posts. Thanks for your time.

Although very loosely based on PNP it is well.. not like PNP at all too be honest with you. What server did you start on?