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stefferweffer
01-02-2013, 04:08 PM
I don't have anything against Warforged. My 19 Arti is Warforged. But I'm thinking about making a Sorcerer that could self heal via scrolls and UMD instead of using Reconstruct on a Warforged. (I also don't like the -2 starting CHA of a Warforged sorcerer.)

I was thinking Drow, because of the + 2 starting CHA, but I also have 32 point builds unlocked. So I was also thinking about Human (although I don't know what I'd do with the extra feat), and Half Elf (with perhaps a Cleric dilly?). Put all starting points into CHA and then CON? Level ups obviously into CHA.

I want this to be a character that focuses on raw damage output (unlike my Palemaster), and I want to focus on spells that cannot be resisted too, if possible, so that I don't have to worry about that. I assume that for feats I want a minimum of Toughness, Maximize, Empower. What about Extend (for buffs) and Heighten? Also, I see on the Wiki that a Flame Savant gets an ability that does 2000 damage? Is this right? Can it be boosted with Fire focus and Emp/Max feats to even higher numbers?

Thanks for your help :)

FestusHood
01-02-2013, 04:28 PM
A hireling is probably your best bet on a first life fleshy sorc. Even with the high charisma, only being able to put half ranks into the umd skill means you won't be using heal scrolls for a long time, probably around level 20, or possibly sooner if you can craft a greensteel item that gives you a charisma skills bonus.

My first life drow sorc is level 18, and can't use heal scrolls reliably with a 36 charisma. I can use cure critical wounds wands, though, which you can alternate with cure serious potions, which are on a separate cooldown. This isn't bad, but still doesn't really give you the burst healing ability of a heal scroll. The extra plus one to your spell dc's on a drow can help to use crowd control effectively. Charming and web can help you to not need so much burst healing. If enemy casters are blowing you up faster than you can heal, charm stuff and go hide. After the casters aggro on the charmed mobs the situation is easier to handle.

Shanzookie
01-02-2013, 04:33 PM
I don't have anything against Warforged. My 19 Arti is Warforged. But I'm thinking about making a Sorcerer that could self heal via scrolls and UMD instead of using Reconstruct on a Warforged. (I also don't like the -2 starting CHA of a Warforged sorcerer.)

I was thinking Drow, because of the + 2 starting CHA, but I also have 32 point builds unlocked. So I was also thinking about Human (although I don't know what I'd do with the extra feat), and Half Elf (with perhaps a Cleric dilly?). Put all starting points into CHA and then CON? Level ups obviously into CHA.

I want this to be a character that focuses on raw damage output (unlike my Palemaster), and I want to focus on spells that cannot be resisted too, if possible, so that I don't have to worry about that. I assume that for feats I want a minimum of Toughness, Maximize, Empower. What about Extend (for buffs) and Heighten? Also, I see on the Wiki that a Flame Savant gets an ability that does 2000 damage? Is this right? Can it be boosted with Fire focus and Emp/Max feats to even higher numbers?

Thanks for your help :)

I see 1 major flaw in that route of thinking... Scroll healing your self is slow, dose not heal you as much as the spell dose. the trade off imo is not worth it. if you did go wf your self healing is much faster, and you dont have to swtich to scrolls from your elemential powerups you have on your secptures or clubs or what not in order to heal your self. And WF are just a bit more resilient then fleshies, so if you get yourself in a pickel it will be harder to not only service it but to get our of it.

As for stats always max out cha for sp/power/DC's con 16 is good, if you DO go umd i would dump the rest in int for more skill points. if you dont and go wf i'd dump it in str and grab a great sword. :)

unbongwah
01-02-2013, 05:01 PM
The obvious non-WF choices are: human for the extra feat & +1 CHA enh, drow for +2 base CHA, or HE w/FvS dilly for self-heal-ability (tho the first two can eventually get their UMD high enough).

stefferweffer
01-02-2013, 05:46 PM
That's rather disappointing about not being able to heal efficiently with UMD, seeing how much it is touted by certain players. I am only recently discovering everything it has to offer on my Artificer, but then again he gets gobs of skill points every level because of his high INT (and I spent AP on it as well).

Looks like I'm back to Warforged then, if I want dependable self healing. But that will also take up a spell slot eventually. If warforged, I assume I want to boost my repair magic? By how much usually?

I want to have enough AP left over to boost at least one element to maximum, and probably even 2. My Palemaster is Ice/Acid spec. Would Fire/Electric Fire Savant work OK, if I wanted to be different but still effective? What feats to take if I go this route?

Thanks again.

voodoogroves
01-02-2013, 05:50 PM
You *can*, but it isn't as easy.

I have a character that is a Wizard right now. For a variety of reasons, she's a human. Last life she was a FVS. She has all she needs to scroll heal no-fail.



It is very, very different than being able to quicken a blue-bar heal. Uninterrupted, etc. That's huge. If she had crazy amp, maybe cure serious pots would feel that way, but honestly it's not that easy.

Some of it is play-style. I'm a much more in-your-face kind of player, and don't like the dancy game. I've got a buddy though who likes playing darty/dodge/dancy on the keyboard and he has no problems ... but that's not my style - so it is hard for me.

Your mileage may vary; try it out and see what you think about it.

FYI: Wands are uninterruptible.

Memnir
01-02-2013, 06:01 PM
Half-Elf with the FvS dilettante line.
Very self-sufficient build - mine is nearing cap. I also wanted to buck the WF trend, so I went with the above. I've not regretted it once (besides having to look at a Helf - man, they ugly).

sirgog
01-02-2013, 06:06 PM
I don't have anything against Warforged. My 19 Arti is Warforged. But I'm thinking about making a Sorcerer that could self heal via scrolls and UMD instead of using Reconstruct on a Warforged. (I also don't like the -2 starting CHA of a Warforged sorcerer.)

I was thinking Drow, because of the + 2 starting CHA, but I also have 32 point builds unlocked. So I was also thinking about Human (although I don't know what I'd do with the extra feat), and Half Elf (with perhaps a Cleric dilly?). Put all starting points into CHA and then CON? Level ups obviously into CHA.

I want this to be a character that focuses on raw damage output (unlike my Palemaster), and I want to focus on spells that cannot be resisted too, if possible, so that I don't have to worry about that. I assume that for feats I want a minimum of Toughness, Maximize, Empower. What about Extend (for buffs) and Heighten? Also, I see on the Wiki that a Flame Savant gets an ability that does 2000 damage? Is this right? Can it be boosted with Fire focus and Emp/Max feats to even higher numbers?

Thanks for your help :)


First, the Heat Death ability is garbage. It is 'save or no effect' and so much less effective than it seems. Generally against trash Finger of Death is better and bosses almost always save against HD as boss Fort saves are high. (The last time I had it it also wasn't affected by spell damage amplification effects but that was prior to the spellpower change).

Be aware that UMD healing is very, very gear intensive. To get to 100% heal scrolls, you will need a tier 3 Shroud item (+5 or +6 to UMD alongside other effects) and a Persuasion item. While Persuasion items are not rare (you can craft them), ones that are worth an equipment slot fulltime are.

1-20 Feats for a human sorc are as follows (32 point humans are better than drow):

- Toughness
- Maximize
- Empower
- Spell Focus (Evoc for non-acid, Conj for acid, note this also buffs Greater Shout or Web for CC)
- Greater Spell Focus
- Quicken Spell (optional but tough to go without)
- Heighten Spell (needed for your SLAs)
- Active Past Life: Wizard (if you qualify, if not you really want it)
- Skill Focus: UMD (take this if you skipped any of the optional feats. Swap it out at 25)

Your epic destiny should be either Draconic Incarnation (adds new spells that go boom), Magister (makes your existing boom spells harder to resist) or Shiradi Champion (makes certain spells, particularly Chain Missiles, Magic Missiles and Meteor Swarm have an enormous amount of procs that will just rip apart even very high HP mobs).


Edit: One more thing to add. Solo you can self-heal from scrolls under pressure on all difficulties except epic elite (your Concentration score will be high enough to not be interrupted). Be warned that you can't do this in groups and you can't quicken scrolls. That mob that hits for 28 on single-player EH, triggering an easy Concentration check, will hit instead for 65 triggering an impossible one in full-group EH.

EllisDee37
01-02-2013, 09:48 PM
I'm right there with you, steff, and am curious what you end up with and how well it goes.

My cleric is running wizard lives at the moment for spell pen, and I'm halfway tempted to do a couple sorc lives for the evocation dc. I have a strong preference for human, though.

knockcocker
01-03-2013, 04:33 AM
First, the Heat Death ability is garbage. It is 'save or no effect' and so much less effective than it seems. Generally against trash Finger of Death is better and bosses almost always save against HD as boss Fort saves are high. (The last time I had it it also wasn't affected by spell damage amplification effects but that was prior to the spellpower change).

Be aware that UMD healing is very, very gear intensive. To get to 100% heal scrolls, you will need a tier 3 Shroud item (+5 or +6 to UMD alongside other effects) and a Persuasion item. While Persuasion items are not rare (you can craft them), ones that are worth an equipment slot fulltime are.

1-20 Feats for a human sorc are as follows (32 point humans are better than drow):

- Toughness
- Maximize
- Empower
- Spell Focus (Evoc for non-acid, Conj for acid, note this also buffs Greater Shout or Web for CC)
- Greater Spell Focus
- Quicken Spell (optional but tough to go without)
- Heighten Spell (needed for your SLAs)
- Active Past Life: Wizard (if you qualify, if not you really want it)
- Skill Focus: UMD (take this if you skipped any of the optional feats. Swap it out at 25)

Your epic destiny should be either Draconic Incarnation (adds new spells that go boom), Magister (makes your existing boom spells harder to resist) or Shiradi Champion (makes certain spells, particularly Chain Missiles, Magic Missiles and Meteor Swarm have an enormous amount of procs that will just rip apart even very high HP mobs).


Edit: One more thing to add. Solo you can self-heal from scrolls under pressure on all difficulties except epic elite (your Concentration score will be high enough to not be interrupted). Be warned that you can't do this in groups and you can't quicken scrolls. That mob that hits for 28 on single-player EH, triggering an easy Concentration check, will hit instead for 65 triggering an impossible one in full-group EH.

This is all very good advice. With hirelings and healing amp you'll be fine
solo. If you plan to TR at 20, go WF.

D3M0N5_GR0WL
01-03-2013, 04:47 AM
Drow sorc ice savant with air specd use niacs biting cold and electric surge dots... no need for heighten. max charisma and con. carry alot of pots... thats about it UMD scrolls wont help you at all unless you take like 1 or 2 lvls of rogue but wouldnt advise that... take a hire... best thing about dots is no SR so no SP needed also no heighten as well free up those spot for more toughness feats for better health.

have fun

MRMechMan
01-03-2013, 05:01 AM
Drow sorc ice savant with air specd use niacs biting cold and electric surge dots... no need for heighten. max charisma and con. carry alot of pots... thats about it UMD scrolls wont help you at all unless you take like 1 or 2 lvls of rogue but wouldnt advise that... take a hire... best thing about dots is no SR so no SP needed also no heighten as well free up those spot for more toughness feats for better health.

have fun

Heighten is very good.

UMD scrolls (you mean heal scrolls?) are quite possible without rogue splash or any splash at all.

Don't take toughness more than once on a sorc.


Human or helf with clr/fvs dilly are the way to go if not WF.

whitehawk74
01-03-2013, 05:08 AM
Half-Elf with the FvS dilettante line.
Very self-sufficient build - mine is nearing cap. I also wanted to buck the WF trend, so I went with the above. I've not regretted it once (besides having to look at a Helf - man, they ugly).
^^ that.
But WF sorcs are very very powerful and you can scroll repair for ages before you really need to load up a repair spell. I did have trouble with mine until level 6 and then she just took off and is a major killer :)

CheeseMilk
01-03-2013, 08:43 AM
Half-Elf with the FvS dilettante line.
Very self-sufficient build - mine is nearing cap. I also wanted to buck the WF trend, so I went with the above. I've not regretted it once (besides having to look at a Helf - man, they ugly).

Second (maybe third or fourth?) this.

I'm leveling one of these (at 14 now) as an earth savant.

You'll be surprised at how effective Cure Critical wands can be with the Human Improved Recovery and Wand & Scroll Mastery enhancements.

Shanzookie
01-03-2013, 04:11 PM
The biggest issue with scrol healing, is you can not do it well while you are in he middle of a big fight. some quest you can't avoid the 5-10 mobs surrounding you and giving you the good ol bootparty. In those instances just from the slowness of a scroll heal, and the amount they heal, you would be standing there all day trying to heal yourself as they are taking it away. Thus why it's not "effective", self-healing. And the whole concept of Soloing, is to do it By-your-self. that would include Not using a hirling, as you would not be by yourself anymore would you? It's a bot yes, but it's also a NPC, which is in deed 1 more person in the party. True soloing is no hirlings, no pets, just you and the mobs.

That is why it is best for a Sorc, or archmagi to go WF so they can use the repair & reconstruct speels to heal. Now if you want a good melee that self heals, can go druid with monk. self healing, dose good dps, and is fun to play, and you get several self-healing options in spells.. :) Just a ideal.

twigzz
01-03-2013, 04:39 PM
Drow sorc ice savant with air specd use niacs biting cold and electric surge dots... no need for heighten. max charisma and con. carry alot of pots... thats about it UMD scrolls wont help you at all unless you take like 1 or 2 lvls of rogue but wouldnt advise that... take a hire... best thing about dots is no SR so no SP needed also no heighten as well free up those spot for more toughness feats for better health.

have fun

Horrible advice.

I have a drow pure sorc ice savant with elect secondary. UMD heal scrolls over 100%(no UMD feats taken either).

DOT's for everything? No heighten? Multiple toughness feats? Pffft.

MarQuileth
01-03-2013, 04:43 PM
I am currently leveling a second life drow sorc (at 17). I went air savant (both lives)...between sonic/lightning and having good jump skills the mobs rarely have a chance to get to me before the are toasted. I do bring a cleric hire with but that is more for the DV's so i don't have to guzzle blue pots. With this build I have found I can solo almost any quest at level without issue.

I also went force as my secondary for those pesky critters that have good evasion or are immune to electrical damage...

Jaid314
01-03-2013, 11:05 PM
The biggest issue with scrol healing, is you can not do it well while you are in he middle of a big fight. some quest you can't avoid the 5-10 mobs surrounding you and giving you the good ol bootparty. In those instances just from the slowness of a scroll heal, and the amount they heal, you would be standing there all day trying to heal yourself as they are taking it away. Thus why it's not "effective", self-healing. And the whole concept of Soloing, is to do it By-your-self. that would include Not using a hirling, as you would not be by yourself anymore would you? It's a bot yes, but it's also a NPC, which is in deed 1 more person in the party. True soloing is no hirlings, no pets, just you and the mobs.

That is why it is best for a Sorc, or archmagi to go WF so they can use the repair & reconstruct speels to heal. Now if you want a good melee that self heals, can go druid with monk. self healing, dose good dps, and is fun to play, and you get several self-healing options in spells.. :) Just a ideal.

you not knowing how to effectively use heal scrolls does not mean that heal scrolls don't work.

remember how as a caster you can move around and deal damage at the same time? turns out you can use the same strategies basically for healing. move away, get behind a wall, pop that heal scroll. chug potions and wand whip while you jump in between if needed (you shouldn't), but really, it isn't that hard to buy yourself a bit of breathing room on a sorcerer.

does it take practice? yes, absolutely. is it more work than sitting there scratching your butt while spamming reconstruct? yes. is it impossible to do? no. not at all.

i'll agree that fleshy UMD heal scrolls is not for everyone, but i couldn't disagree more that it can't work. the mobs in this game are not smart enough to make it impossible. you keep moving, you time your scrolls when you have cover from the ranged mobs and when the melee mobs have fallen a bit behind, and you can self-heal with scrolls.

squishwizzy
01-04-2013, 11:23 AM
I don't have anything against Warforged. My 19 Arti is Warforged. But I'm thinking about making a Sorcerer that could self heal via scrolls and UMD instead of using Reconstruct on a Warforged. (I also don't like the -2 starting CHA of a Warforged sorcerer.)

I was thinking Drow, because of the + 2 starting CHA, but I also have 32 point builds unlocked. So I was also thinking about Human (although I don't know what I'd do with the extra feat), and Half Elf (with perhaps a Cleric dilly?). Put all starting points into CHA and then CON? Level ups obviously into CHA.

I want this to be a character that focuses on raw damage output (unlike my Palemaster), and I want to focus on spells that cannot be resisted too, if possible, so that I don't have to worry about that. I assume that for feats I want a minimum of Toughness, Maximize, Empower. What about Extend (for buffs) and Heighten? Also, I see on the Wiki that a Flame Savant gets an ability that does 2000 damage? Is this right? Can it be boosted with Fire focus and Emp/Max feats to even higher numbers?

Thanks for your help :)

Honestly, with arcanes you really don't run into problems healing until lvl 12 or above. A stack of CSW pots go a loooooong way from when you get access to CSW pots to higher levels where they start to lose effectiveness. If you're really concerned about getting the most from healing, go human (or half-elf) and take the improved healing enhancements.

There are other things you can do to manage healing before having access to stuff like Heal scrolls. The first is to carry a CSW pots and a CMW / CSW / CCW wands. To replenish HP after a fight, quaff a pot, and while the pot drinking is on cooldown, use the wand. Go back-and-forth like this, and you'll be back to full health in a relatively short period of time.

To imporve UMD a low levels, I think the Deleras chain had a necklace that has +1 to int, and +3 to UMD. Consider running that a couple to times: one to get Voice of the Master, and the other to get that necklace.

I think you can also craft a pursuation item to boost your UMD.

The other things to do are to have as much damage mitigation on you as possible. This means a Protection item, and something to boost AC. At about lvl 5 I think you should be able to use Stoneskin scrolls pretty effectively. Grab a stack of them and use them throughout the quest. Grab Blur wands (or scrolls) to avoid getting hit in the first place. Learn some tanking techniques like casting web around you to ensnare enemies drop a firewall on yourself to burn them up while ensnared, and then hit the shift key to block to avoid taking damage from the mobs who aren't ensnared.

As for spells that can;t be resisted? Well, at some point or another, virtually every spell can be resisted in some form or another whether it is through evasion, spell resistence, or mob elemental resistences. As a first-time Sorc you're probably going to focus on nuking, which means you don't have to focus so much on getting past mobs spell resistence. That being said, you're going to have some quests where your elemental speciality is going to be near useless because the mobs in that quest are immune to it. Fire is good starter at low levels. Ice and acid tend to dominate at upper levels. You may need to re-work your enhancements at one point to handle the majority of quests from that point forward.

Gkar
01-04-2013, 11:31 AM
Half-Elf with the FvS dilettante line.
Very self-sufficient build - mine is nearing cap. I also wanted to buck the WF trend, so I went with the above. I've not regretted it once (besides having to look at a Helf - man, they ugly).

Yeah, I did this too and it was a nice levelling experience. Wand use WAY before you could UMD them, and solid scroll use early on as well.

Syllph
01-04-2013, 11:50 AM
Friendly advice:

1: Scroll healing is very possible. Personally I don't find it fun, I'm psycho when I play sorc and I get hit a lot. Scroll heal is much, much too slow for me. When I do EE content I am getting 2-300 damage per hit with 150 fort. I only have 650 HP. Basically i need to heal after every hit more or less. If you're willing to get hit, scroll heal and wait for the cool down, this route will be fine. It works perfectly, but you need to be much less aggressive and that's tough for sorcs doing massive damage.

2: Healers. My personal experience in higher end content is that healers view sorcs/wizzys as self sufficient. I rarely see heals thrown on my sorc, and when i play a healer I tend to ignore the casters. This is a personal observation and not based on anything more. Just a word of caution.

3: UMD. You don't need to do anything crazy. Max your CHA as you would, stick your points in every level, and GS + CHA abilities will do you fine. No need to take special feats or splash levels. Pure 20 sorc is very doable for UMD. Make sure you have enough INT to allow for concentrate and UMD.

4. Spell Failure. UMD scrolls are subject to spell failure and this is not offset with quicken. With maxed concentrate this shouldn't be a big deal but be aware of this.

5. DC. End game you'll have 1-2 DC more than a WF. Again personal experience, this is negligible. The difference between 2 DC has never made me miss a beat.

life 26. pure sorc. I love sorcs.