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View Full Version : So, I'm working on an arcane archer . . .



PLUGintoTHEpowerLINE
01-01-2013, 01:00 AM
And almost every build, and every guide by reasonable and well-respected forum folk, says to put off toughness until after you get the PrE -- offsetting it to, what, lv9?

Can you do this? Can this actually be done? It feels like a cardinal sin. It feels like a priest telling you it's okay to go skinnydipping at a wh***house.

But seriously ... every impulse I've had, from the minute I've started playing this game, is that toughness is more-or-less mandatory, if not *at* level 1, then, at least, before you get off the vet status boat.

What is the better choice? Putting off Toughness, or putting off the PrE?

DrusTheAxe
01-01-2013, 01:23 AM
Get the PrE. Toughness isn't that big a deal.

Yeah. I said it.

If you're TR'd, you've got plenty of gear so waiting a little for Toughness is no big shakes. And if you've played long enough to TR, you're skilled enough to live w/o Toughness for a while.

And even if it's your 1st life, Toughness only buys you how much HP? Even at cap, it's nice, but not that big a deal to live without.

If you're totally new to DDO, then yes, the added HP can be a literal lifesaver.
But if you're not ultra twinked, so what? *Are you having fun?*

I find the PrEs are a big enough boost, I hate waiting longer (botched feat/enhancement selection a couple of times, had to wait a level or three. Ack). And especially at lower levels, the added oomph from PrEs is more noticeable than later (bigger jump from no-PrE to PrE-I than PrE-I to II or II to III).

goodspeed
01-01-2013, 02:39 AM
well im not sure what uve chosen but, any build that hasn't been written by someone huffing grass usually has the pre taken right by 6. I think the selection is point blank, mental toughness and something else. I think precise shot was one until it was included.

Well unless you were going racial then It would be at lv 9, but going to that lv usually toughness would already be in the mix.

Glenalth
01-01-2013, 11:09 AM
And almost every build, and every guide by reasonable and well-respected forum folk, says to put off toughness until after you get the PrE -- offsetting it to, what, lv9?

Can you do this? Can this actually be done? It feels like a cardinal sin. It feels like a priest telling you it's okay to go skinnydipping at a wh***house.

But seriously ... every impulse I've had, from the minute I've started playing this game, is that toughness is more-or-less mandatory, if not *at* level 1, then, at least, before you get off the vet status boat.

What is the better choice? Putting off Toughness, or putting off the PrE?

If you didn't dump Con, then putting off Toughness shouldn't be an issue.

On my ranger lives I usually ended up waiting until level 12 so I can grab Improved Crit before it too.

Symerith
01-01-2013, 03:23 PM
And almost every build, and every guide by reasonable and well-respected forum folk, says to put off toughness until after you get the PrE -- offsetting it to, what, lv9?

Can you do this? Can this actually be done? It feels like a cardinal sin. It feels like a priest telling you it's okay to go skinnydipping at a wh***house.

But seriously ... every impulse I've had, from the minute I've started playing this game, is that toughness is more-or-less mandatory, if not *at* level 1, then, at least, before you get off the vet status boat.

What is the better choice? Putting off Toughness, or putting off the PrE?

Most completionists and endgame players who like to have their toons maxed will skip toughness. Why? Because with the introduction of epic feats, including overwhelming critical that has prereqs, those feats are more important than 27 HP and some tough. enh. Many vets will also chose to pick up Paladin past life feat rather than toughness, etc..

More related to what you are looking for, what's some extra hitpoints when you can have 43 PRR, 25% incorporeal, somewhat decent AC, around 15 dodge and you can always craft some greensteel displacement clickies if you feel the need to do so ;)

So yes, to answer your question, it is more a less a pain to level up an arcane archer so pick up the feats related to the build first.

Hobgoblin
01-01-2013, 03:39 PM
on banes barb past life - i actually put off toughness till 18ish?

dont member why, just had other feats i needed/wanted

it worked out fine

hob

nibel
01-01-2013, 07:18 PM
And even if it's your 1st life, Toughness only buys you how much HP?

On a Fighter, I still get Toughness because at level 1 it gives me 13 HP (3 base, 10 enhancement). It is a huge bump to a level 1-3 character. After that, toughness is less valuable.

I wouldn't take it on any other class at level 1. If I can't fit it at level 3 (where racial toughness kick in), I usually skip it. The time of "bring your big bag of HP to our raid" is over.

blerkington
01-01-2013, 07:33 PM
Hi,

I think you yourself might be the best person to answer this.

I see some experienced players have answered your post, saying that it is okay to put off taking toughness until later on, or not take it at all. Whether that advice is good for you really depends on where you are as a player, and I think that while toughness may not mean as much at cap now as it once did, it is useful while levelling especially if you are new.

My view on this is that toughness and the racial enhancements it unlocks can very useful early on when your HP total is low. If you have difficulty managing aggro, and surviving when you do pick it up, then higher HP early on could be worth more than getting access to the PRE early. The racial enhancements help a lot.

I certainly don't mean to imply you are inexperienced, I don't know you, but even as a good player a good HP buffer helps when things go wrong.

The early stages of the AA PRE don't provide big increases to your damage output if you already have a decently built and geared character. It mainly means you can legitimately call yourself an AA and avoid the PITA of managing arrows in your inventory.

Returning arrows from House D favour may help with the inventory issue, and you won't have your best archery feats like IPS and a good manyshot until later anyway.

Anyway, I hope this helps. Lockania's free feat respec token may come in handy if you make one choice and then decide later that the other one would have been better for you.

Thanks.

Twidger
01-03-2013, 02:43 AM
I took Toughness at 15 on my first life, 14 CON Elf AA. It's probably better to take it around 12 though.

SirValentine
01-03-2013, 04:56 AM
What is the better choice? Putting off Toughness, or putting off the PrE?


Put off Toughness a bit. At level 1, Toughness only gets you 3 HP, or, at level 8, it's 10 HP. You can survive low level quests without that until level 9.

whitehawk74
01-03-2013, 05:05 AM
Unless you are up the front you really dont need to get the Toughness feat until later. You will do more damage and therefor take less by getting your Pre.
Precise Shot and then Improved Precise Shot is way more important.

unbongwah
01-03-2013, 03:25 PM
At level 1, Toughness only gets you 3 HP, or, at level 8, it's 10 HP.
You're forgetting the racial Toughness enhs, though, which open up at char lvl 3; so presuming pure rgr, Toughness feat + enhs is +15 HPs at lvl 3 & another +13 HPs at lvl 6 - a not-insignificant bonus for a low-HP class (and possibly low-HP race).

That said, as an AA you are (in theory) hanging back & pew-pewing and therefore don't need as many HPs as, say, a front-line melee does.