PDA

View Full Version : Clerics and Negative Energy -- Should be naturals at using it



Zachski
12-26-2012, 10:15 PM
So, by default, all Clerics start off with positive energy spells automatically known.

This is all fine and dandy... but at the same time, Clerics should also have the ability to do this with negative energy spells of the appropriate level.

Maybe limit this to Neutral Clerics, since those are traditionally the ones that have had to choose between them, whereas good Clerics just automatically got positive and evil Clerics automatically got negative.

However, since this is DDO with very different connotations, I think Clerics should actually get both. I mean, who would waste a precious spell slot for the Harming spells?

Other than theme builds, I mean.

On the other hand, if they were freely available, they might see some more use since there's no opportunity cost involved.

Also, Pale Master. Why isn't this available to Clerics? I mean, can you imagine Cleric Vampires running around quests, healing themselves with negative energy spells and basically being awesome?

Actually, that might be a bad idea for that reason alone. Though I'm sure the wizard pale masters would love these undead Clerics.

Forgive me, I've got a head cold, so I may not be making entirely logical sense here.

HatsuharuZ
12-26-2012, 11:32 PM
The only problem I have with your idea is that it's already a better idea to be Neutral as a cleric than it is to be anything else, and this just makes the disparity worse.

Also, PM for clerics sounds interesting, but for purely personal reasons I'd rather they didn't just have a copy of the wizard's PM enhancements.

Zachski
12-27-2012, 04:50 AM
Maybe a unique Cleric-specific Pale Master?

Like, it gets different forms and abilities and stuff.

Control Undead! Uses a Turn attempt to Dominate a whole bunch of undead!

Kinerd
12-28-2012, 03:37 PM
The reason clerics get all the positive spells automatically is a version of the domains system. The domain most closely resembling a Negative one is the Destruction domain...

level 1: Inflict Light
level 2: Shatter (does not exist in DDO)
level 3: Contagion
level 4: Inflict Critical
level 5: Mass Inflict Light
level 6: Harm
level 7: Disintegrate (!!!)
level 8: Earthquake (!!!)
level 9: Implosion

You can check out this site (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spellLists/clericDomains.htm) for the full list, you can see why it's something people have been asking for for a long long time.

.

Regarding cleric PMs, I think it would be very unsatisfying. Remember that unlike Radiant Servants, PMs do not get a healing aura as part of their PrE but via their spellbook, a spellbook clerics do not have access to. Additionally, the deep specialization in Necromancy does not have the same power on a cleric.

HatsuharuZ
12-28-2012, 03:43 PM
The reason clerics get all the positive spells automatically is a version of the domains system. The domain most closely resembling a Negative one is the Destruction domain...

level 1: Inflict Light
level 2: Shatter (does not exist in DDO)
level 3: Contagion
level 4: Inflict Critical
level 5: Mass Inflict Light
level 6: Harm
level 7: Disintegrate (!!!)
level 8: Earthquake (!!!)
level 9: Implosion

You can check out this site (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spellLists/clericDomains.htm) for the full list, you can see why it's something people have been asking for for a long long time.

This list makes me drool. I love domains, and I was very disappointed to discover when I first started playing that Clerics in DDO don't have them.

the613
12-28-2012, 04:50 PM
I think an undead based prestige for clerics would be nice, but not just copying PM from wizard.


Personal thoughts on it:

- Make it focused on the inflict spells and negative energy mostly.
- Give them an ability that when a monster is killed that was injured by that clerics negative energy spell, they have a % chance based on how much of their health was removed by negative energy to be raised as an undead "minion". Minions level would be dependent on the level of the ability (in our current system, a level 5 minion at pre1, level 10 minion at pre2, and a level 15 minion at pre3 sorta thing), and would not have the limit of normal summons, maybe a 5 per prestige tier limit.
- Give them forms, but only one at each tier (maybe none at final tier), and make them weaker them PM forms.

I know this probably won't happen, but I think it would be really nice.

Enoach
12-28-2012, 05:13 PM
The Prestige Class of Pale Master actually has no divine requirements, only Arcane.

The Necromancer prestige class is the divine version.

The negative energy spells like Inflict and Harm are generally overlooked because of their targeting mechanic (Target must be in front of the caster) and because at higher levels creatures with Death Ward are not effected by negative energy damage.

In taking enhancements for their positive energy spells, clerics are also taking enhancements in negative energy as well. However, few would consider having a Void Lore or negative energy enhancement items even though Tangleroot gorge end reward system clearly has an item that shows their connection: Splinterskull Acolyte Ring - Ring: Devotion +30, Nullification +30

Personally I like carrying The Harm spell for more reasons than spot healing PMs. It is very functional in melee. The mass versions are great aggro magnets on large groups - you have to give them some reason to chase you through a blade barrier :).


I would like to see them bring the Necromancer PrE to DDO and not dup PM for Divine uses.

jillie
12-28-2012, 05:26 PM
Once my divines have the Slay Living spell, they can often be found fondling this or that item of nullification. They seem exceedingly fond of Thaumaturgy Quarterstaves with both nullification and devotion for some reason.

gphysalis
12-28-2012, 06:01 PM
The reason clerics get all the positive spells automatically is a version of the domains system.

That's not true.

Clerics getting all the positive spells is the spontaneous casting system.


To the OP,
I would really like clerics to get a different presetige class, that was undead based, because clerics are supposed to be better than wizards at undead stuff, not just equal.

Zachski
12-28-2012, 11:36 PM
^Indeed.

In which case, let's bring over the Necromancer Prestige Class (for what it's worth) and allow the spontaneous casting of Inflict spells.

Also, I still feel the targeting thing is a bit too arbitrary. I understand why they did it for positive energy spells (HEY BARBARIAN STOP RUNNING SO I CAN GET IN MELEE RANGE GAAAAAHH) it just feels a little inconsistent to not do it with negative energy spells as well -- namely because the spells are supposed to be mirrors of each other and... aren't.

What make things frustrating is that the negative energy death effect is one of the cooler ones, haha.