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View Full Version : Make every quest a walkup



MRMechMan
12-04-2012, 01:00 AM
Give us the option to make every quest a walkup.

-This makes window farming possible in places where otherwise, solo, you would need to run back and take the quest from some questgiver.
-For chains, only make them walkups if you have accessed that part of the quest once.
-For raids, only make them walkups when the raid timer is off.

Benefits:
It avoids long walks
losing the window doesn't = horrible reflagging
avoids having to reflag for a chain (ie shadow crypt) after having done it once. that kind of flagging sucks anyway. I don't think anyone would be sorry to see it go.
avoids having to log a box or party with a guildy/friend to farm a quest
avoids having to share/abandon a quest with party members when no one gets the window.
no one has to ever ask for a share

Drawbacks:
They'd probably mess up its implementation.
Don't know where to turn it in.
Some roleplayers would cry.

SardaofChaos
12-04-2012, 01:33 AM
So, you've already made yourself pretty clear, but I'm going to go ahead and take it one step further down.

The proposal is to completely legitimize the practice of window-farming, because there is certainly not enough xp in the game to level a character properly. Furthermore, reading text is too hard, and nobody should be forced to torture themselves by being told why they are sneaking into a building disguised as a crime lord.

Uska
12-04-2012, 01:39 AM
NO people need to know where the quest giver is to get their reward and there is enough laziness in the game already.

Memnir
12-04-2012, 01:43 AM
The proposal is to completely legitimize the practice of window-farmingJust to interject:
Window farming is already, and has been for years now, a totally legitimate and Dev-sanctioned practice.

Uska
12-04-2012, 01:45 AM
Just to interject:
Window farming is already, and has been for years now, a totally legitimate and Dev-sanctioned practice.

Actually I think its a Dev-dont care practice

Memnir
12-04-2012, 01:52 AM
Actually I think its a Dev-dont care practice
Back in the days of level 10 being cap, one of the Devs chimed in on a thread specifically about window-farming and said it was a totally legit tactic.


So it's not that they don't care... they straight-up said it was kosher.

Alternative
12-04-2012, 01:59 AM
/signed

Deathdefy
12-04-2012, 02:01 AM
...Furthermore, reading text is too hard, and nobody should be forced to torture themselves by being told why they are sneaking into a building disguised as a crime lord.

I read nothing! Nothing! Ahhahaahahaha.

CTRL-F1 spam every quest giver I talk to, except Prison of the Planes guy and Stealthy Reposession where you have to hit CTRL-F2 once first.

Re: relevance, no one's reading if they don't want to anyway, and everyone's window farming if they want to anyway, so neither of your objections stands.

Limey
12-04-2012, 02:12 AM
Make it VIP only :p

Lonnbeimnech
12-04-2012, 02:49 AM
Give us the option to make every quest a walkup.

OG, I would love this.

NO people need to know where the quest giver is to get their reward...
Do people still do that? Pick up rewards? How quaint.

AZgreentea
12-04-2012, 04:26 AM
I can see why some people would like this idea, but wow... this would make DDO intensely boring. There are already so many dungeon crawls that are light on plot (like Fate) why does DDO have to be one of them?

MRMechMan
12-04-2012, 04:46 AM
I can see why some people would like this idea, but wow... this would make DDO intensely boring. There are already so many dungeon crawls that are light on plot (like Fate) why does DDO have to be one of them?

If the ddo storyline interested me, I would see less of a need for this.

As it is, the suggestion says to give us the option to be able to do this. Option. Some people enjoy running over to house D every time they finish "A relic of a soverign past." I am not one of those people. More choice is better.

The "turning it in every time" is bypassable via sharing and party members anyway...I am just suggesting a way to do that while solo. Having to have a box to share a quest you are farming so you don't have to run a long way is just silly.

Play the game the way you enjoy it; I am merely making a suggestion to enhance my in-game experience in a way that makes sense to me.

I've read every questgivers dialogue at least 10x over many lives...I don't particularly read them anymore, nor care to.

Silverwren
12-04-2012, 08:08 AM
Do people still do that? Pick up rewards? How quaint.

Crafters do. Gotta gets me essences! :p

Miow
12-04-2012, 08:14 AM
OG, I would love this.

Do people still do that? Pick up rewards? How quaint.

0.o

Gkar
12-04-2012, 08:24 AM
Back in the days of level 10 being cap, one of the Devs chimed in on a thread specifically about window-farming and said it was a totally legit tactic.

So it's not that they don't care... they straight-up said it was kosher.

During the Kommunity Kobold definitive thread (for the time) on exploits vs cheese vs legal KK replied (it might have been in a PM to me) that window farming is totally legit, as long as it didn't bypass a game mechanic that allowed you to avoid required flagging. Basically, if you can legitimately red box it, or you can legitimately retake the quest right away, then it was fine. There are VERY view (are there any left actually?) non-raids in the game where you must be on the right part of the quest chain to enter after you have run the quest at least once.

AZgreentea
12-04-2012, 08:45 AM
If the ddo storyline interested me, I would see less of a need for this.

As it is, the suggestion says to give us the option to be able to do this. Option. Some people enjoy running over to house D every time they finish "A relic of a soverign past." I am not one of those people. More choice is better.

The "turning it in every time" is bypassable via sharing and party members anyway...I am just suggesting a way to do that while solo. Having to have a box to share a quest you are farming so you don't have to run a long way is just silly.

Play the game the way you enjoy it; I am merely making a suggestion to enhance my in-game experience in a way that makes sense to me.

I've read every questgivers dialogue at least 10x over many lives...I don't particularly read them anymore, nor care to.
Thats understandable. I just dont know if this is popular enough. Do a lot of people farm quests this way? How would this be implemented and what would the interface be like? Would you rather have them devote time to this or bug fixes? Not that they cant do both, but clearly developing something like this would take at least some resources from bug fixes.

CaptainSpacePony
12-04-2012, 09:16 AM
I do not support this proposal. While it is not unreasonable, I fear it would serve to reduce some of the game's flavor. Too much of that, and it sneaks up on you (and the rest of the player base) until you the game just isn't fun anymore.

I could be wrong on this, but we need to be careful about stripping the fantasy veneer off the binary product below. When we stop seeing "blonde, brunette, red head" and always see the Matrix for what it is, most of use will find somewhere else to spend our time. I believe the OP is a step in this direction.

voodoogroves
12-04-2012, 09:23 AM
Thats understandable. I just dont know if this is popular enough. Do a lot of people farm quests this way? How would this be implemented and what would the interface be like? Would you rather have them devote time to this or bug fixes? Not that they cant do both, but clearly developing something like this would take at least some resources from bug fixes.

"Farm" has an ugly connotation, but let's be serious - not everything is "OMG RUSTED BLADES 2 MIN RUNS"

I've got a character on a TR who's doing Necro 4 right now. Missing a right frame. Now I have already window-farmed the hell out of VoL, Ghosts, Fleshmakers, and no frame. I don't get XP any more on those. I've done Inferno once, and I know I need to hit it a few times for the frame. I can either (a) go with a group or a buddy to window farm or (b) run back and forth several times. The running and turning in probably takes longer than the quest. This is not "advancing the plot", this is running to the quest entrance. It isn't quite Chains of Flame, but it's a haul.


I've also got a few capped characters who don't get XP penalties. Joy. One thing I like to do when I've got some time is simply to run things solo. Lets say I want to see about getting a seal from one of the quests in the Underdark. Not a speed run, but kinda quick and hit the matron and complete. I want my chests, more typical completions and I'm going to run them on hard. Getting to those quests takes time. Once you run them once, you need to turn them in ... and run back out. I'm not sure about you but from Eveningstar to those quests is even longer than Chains of Flame. I guess this is a backwards way of encouraging grouping - so I window farm those instead of solo them.

I can run all three, but frankly they are annoying to get between. Further, I think I've got all the Szind and DunRobar stuff I want - what I really want to do is a set of Avithouls, etc. ... but I need to group to do that just so I can get someone to work the window.

Dragon.Star
12-04-2012, 09:28 AM
/not signed

This would just promote laziness and there would be too many questions on where the reward guy is afterwards. Turbine has already been making things in this game to easy for players.

Do we really need to keep adding the EASY BUTTON.

redspecter23
12-04-2012, 09:28 AM
If we've completed a quest (non-redboxed), we should just be able to red box it while in a completed state instead of reaccepting. This means you would have to visit the quest giver at least once (or receive a share if applicable) but you wouldn't have to hold windows, abandon quests or have an opener under many circumstances. This would streamline the process and would be something I could agree with. Making all quests walkups, while similar, does reduce immersion as nobody would ever have to interact with any quest givers ever.

CaptainSpacePony
12-04-2012, 09:44 AM
If we've completed a quest (non-redboxed), we should just be able to red box it while in a completed state instead of reaccepting. This means you would have to visit the quest giver at least once (or receive a share if applicable) but you wouldn't have to hold windows, abandon quests or have an opener under many circumstances. This would streamline the process and would be something I could agree with. Making all quests walkups, while similar, does reduce immersion as nobody would ever have to interact with any quest givers ever.

Interesting compromise.

fyrst.grok
12-04-2012, 10:07 AM
I do not support this proposal. While it is not unreasonable, I fear it would serve to reduce some of the game's flavor. Too much of that, and it sneaks up on you (and the rest of the player base) until you the game just isn't fun anymore.

I could be wrong on this, but we need to be careful about stripping the fantasy veneer off the binary product below. When we stop seeing "blonde, brunette, red head" and always see the Matrix for what it is, most of use will find somewhere else to spend our time. I believe the OP is a step in this direction.

By that logic we shouldn't have a share button either.. And rp wise we shouldn't be able to repeat any quest once.

Make it so we have to take it a questgiver once, then reacuire it at entrance thereafter.
And do away with the reflagging for chains in necro while we're at it.. Cursed crypt would actually be fun to run a few times if not for the window/reflagging requirement to do so.

CaptainSpacePony
12-04-2012, 11:48 AM
By that logic we shouldn't have a share button either.. And rp wise we shouldn't be able to repeat any quest once.


Some steps already taken are too far, some are not and there is room for more. This request may or may not be too far, but I would urge caution. The stripping of flavor is a slippery slope and we probably won't know when it's gone too far.

rdasca
12-04-2012, 12:30 PM
/not signed

soulaeon
12-04-2012, 12:31 PM
Not signed.
Some quests could be easier, but everything is pretty much spoon-fed enough. People should learn to play the game, instead, because that solves a lot of other problems.
Most quests are right there in the same zone as the quest itself. The only advantage to making everything walk-up would be to farm, in which case, there's lots of other stuff out there.
Back in the Nintendo days, we didnt have other people telling us how to do everything every step of the way, and we didnt have everything handed to us every step of the way, and that made games more challenging and interesting because we had to actally use our imagination to solve problems.

aarant
12-04-2012, 12:45 PM
Mech doesnt want to always have to find somone to window grind, mech likes to solo, mech is a paying customer,Mech's suggestion wouldnt hurt or affect somone else's game play(unless u need to pike mech's run like me) I dont see why any 1 would be against this...

Bolo_Grubb
12-04-2012, 02:21 PM
/not signed

Merlin-ator
12-04-2012, 04:12 PM
/not signed

This wouldn't do anything with window farming. The reason repeat XP penalties exist is to encourage players to run ALL of the content, not just the most XP/min, helping to ensure that there are enough people who are willing to do various quests.

Not a roleplayer, but I prefer to know the story of the game I'm playing. You should try reading the story too, an excellent story-based game I'd recommend to anyone is Xenogears (PS1).

MrChipinator
12-05-2012, 10:06 AM
/signed

I think this would make things much more convenient in general, and if you don't like it don't do it. I still go get quest rewards if I do something on elite and it's a hard quest, (Vale/Reaver's, IQ, even.) you never know what you might get (like +4 Holy Handwraps of +10 Stunning back in U9).

aarant
12-05-2012, 06:16 PM
I never said everyone was into roleplaying, as for the rest maybe you should stop using your own experiences as a basis for making examples for everyone else. The only lack of comprehension has been yours, as I said just because someone disagrees with a suggestion is no indication of anything other than they disagree, you are the one that took those contrary opinions personally and decided to attack a poster to justify your opinion. Just because you openly admit to piking runs with another player does not mean that everyone else does the same.

We can go back and forth with reading comprehension is teh hardness but frankly thats already a bit old I did ask If u could post a single reason from the thread this shouldnt be implemented u failed to do that *no gold star awarded*

as to the attack I responded to what appeared to be gibberish and had nothing to do with the suggestion and posted a link that amused me (check ur ah there may be a sense of humor for sale) U seemed to take it personally, but then im sure U can identify with someone who posts poorly thought out gibberish. Im sorry about that I didnt mean to offend *gold star awarded in apology*


As to piking mech's runs thats whats referred to as self deprecation http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-deprecation look here if ur confused ( pm me if u didnt have to use the link and mum and dad didnt help and Ill award another gold star), if mech bothers to respond Im sure he will tell u I dont pike I merely added that to take a bit of the sting off the post.



As someone who solos quite often I have no problem getting the quest I want to do, nor do I have any issue with retaking a quest if I want to run it again.

As to soloing I tend not to, not that I cant I can solo several of the new quests on ee fairly quickly, with a loot gem running u want to be a bit quick about it ,pm me if u have a toon on cannith and ill give u a back pack ride through some (dont worry Ill raise u at the chests), there we have compared epeens and thumped chests moving on.

I dont tend to solo epic content for 4 reasons, Im not playing a console game If I did it would be cheaper, its boring, it takes a bit longer if u dont include the waiting for at least 3 other people time involved, and the number 1 reason every now and then u have epics turn into a giant mess that finish's, it actually feels a bit epic and most if not every 1 there has a ball.


The problem is there are already to many people running around who the first thing they say when joining a group is “share”, now sometimes maybe it is someone who has run the quest a hundred times before and they are in a hurry, but most of the time it is someone who has no clue what the quest is, where it is, or what they are doing, by having them get the quest and maybe just maybe reading a bit they may understand what it is they are getting ready to do.

This suggestion seems like it would solve this problem for the most part not sure if this is a pro or con to the op's suggestion, ahh well u did come up with idea (though Im not sure if its for or against) *gold star awarded*


But the main problem with making “all” quest walkups is, chains and flagging quest, “oops walked to close to Delera one now I cannot do number four”, is not my idea of fun times, nor is walking by quest and getting popups saying “you are not X to do this quest”. Nor do I want my quest log lighting up just because I took a walk through the marketplace.

I liked a earlier idea on the thread that seemed to be a fair compromise. Must run the quest at least 1 time non red boxed, to go a bit further then make all quests walkups if u meet those conditions, the unintended consquences of that is u would probally see more groups for farm spots like shadow crypt that are already ip ( dont ask me why people seem far more likely to hit ip groups then 1's waiting to fill probally has nothing to do with the fact that the guy can solo and carry)



Now granted the OP said not to have chains give a quest unless they player had already done the one before it, I get that; however, the Delera chain is a good example of what issues would arise, anyone ever have this quest chain break on them? You really think this would not happen under a walkup system?

I refer u to above (if u didnt need this hint pm me and I will award another gold star)


Now if the OP wants to suggest that all wilderness quest be walkups, I would think it was a bit silly, but would not really have a problem with it, but since that is not what he suggested, no amount of childish condescending remarks, nor personal attacks are going to change my opposition to making “all” quest walkups.

Again U arnt the op just as u mentioned earlyer not every 1 is going to agree, this is a thread about game mechanics that effect his playing time he plays late night early morning when very few are on in his guild and the server period(no we arnt guildys) I have read many threads where people are more then out right hostile about others telling them how to play, this wont affect u in the least but will mech and people like him server pop is down on cannith any idea that makes playing a bit more convient is a good idea as long as it isnt driving away a larger number of people then it attracts.

As to personal attacks I wasnt responding to ur post that u seemed to take oh so personally "why so serious"? U did respond with a snarky comment too my post that had nothing to do with u (its just magically vanished, what ever could have happened to it?),

Tbh Im glad we have people like u policing the forums for the rest of the game pop Im sure it will make ddo a better place in the future If we have people like u cleaning up the forums for wrong thinking I have posted ideas that support this suggestion other then no (which is the argument of a spoiled 2yo that has just learned the word) I havnt seen any arguments against that make sense,or would effect the posters personale game play other then urs *yup u guessed it another gold star on ur forehead* and 1 of those seemed to support the op's suggestion.

most of ur post is a wall of text with attempts at snarky comments that doesnt seem to give any real reasons why this would effect ur game play, again I challenge u to quote a post earlyer then urs with a actual valid reason against this, theres a gold star in it for u (no the slide of doom down the slippery slope of mount doom doesnt count, no losing flavor to the game doesnt count, no losing touch with the immersive well written story doesnt count) I refuse to let any 1 other then the devs dictate how I play and I imagine the op is much the same way and I repeat this would harm no1 and help many

Seventoe
12-05-2012, 06:31 PM
I can see both sides of this debate, but since I once made it to the door of Chains of Flame before realizing I wasn't on the quest, I'm going to go with "/Signed."

MRMechMan
12-05-2012, 10:03 PM
Aarant regularly invades my groups and goes AFK in the middle of my window farms. Heinous. :D

The deleras issue-if you are on the correct chapter for that quest, it is a walkup. If you are not, /dance all day in front and no quest assigned.

Again, this would be an option, probably one most vets or TRs would be using rather than newer players. For me and probably many others, getting to a quest (such as chains of flame) and discovering you need to make another 5 min run is not fun.

Making it a walkup enhances my fun more than having to click through a dialogue that I have seen dozens of times. If you would rather make the 5minute run to read those vital words of information, then just don't select the option of all quests are walkups.

Make it only a walkup if you have completed it once before, if that makes other people having fun more tolerable to whoever felt the need to not sign this.

I don't always solo, but when I do I prefer questing to running through wildernesses many times.

As for easy buttons...I wouldn't call this an easy button. Running through wilderness areas isn't exactly difficult. Waiting for someone to hit your lfm for a quest so you can window farm isn't difficult. Loading a box to share the quest with isn't particularly difficult.

It's more of a convinience button, and an optional one at that.

Therigar
12-05-2012, 10:10 PM
Bad idea IMO. Nothing wrong with distinct differences between, "Hey, let's check out this cave," and "Would you go rescue my daughter who has been captured by the forces of evil." In DDO this is well represented by some walk-up quests and some quest-giver quests.

IMO this is how it should stay.

FWIW, I don't have any sympathy for the argument that it makes it difficult to window farm. I'd be alright if that ability went away entirely (although I expect it is here to stay).


I can see both sides of this debate, but since I once made it to the door of Chains of Flame before realizing I wasn't on the quest, I'm going to go with "/Signed."

This is why they enabled the Share option for quests. It works for most of them. It should be permitted on all of them except chained quests. I think it is.

MRMechMan
12-05-2012, 11:43 PM
This is why they enabled the Share option for quests. It works for most of them. It should be permitted on all of them except chained quests. I think it is.

Try sharing a quest with yourself and see how far you get.

Again, that is a big reason for this thread. 2 people, or a 1 person and a box, can abandon and share a quest. I see no reason to penalize the solo player by not being able to share a quest with yourself. That, or making more quests in wilderness walkups (so you can abandon and rewalkup) would be fine.

xxScoobyDooxx
12-05-2012, 11:45 PM
How would we be expected to understand what it is we are supposed to do if we all just randomly run up to entrances in the wilderness?

I mean we'd all stand at the door and say to each other ... hmmmmm ... I wonder whats in here then.

Quests givers are there for a reason ..... I cannot comprehend how we could cope without them.

meh

/not signed

MRMechMan
12-05-2012, 11:48 PM
How would we be expected to understand what it is we are supposed to do if we all just randomly run up to entrances in the wilderness?

I mean we'd all stand at the door and say to each other ... hmmmmm ... I wonder whats in here then.

Quests givers are there for a reason ..... I cannot comprehend how we could cope without them.

meh

/not signed

Hence the part where it is not a walkup till you have completed at least once. Sigh.