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View Full Version : Let us make the Cormyrian's part of the Challenge's Sets. And let us upgrade them.



Tid12
10-28-2012, 06:05 AM
Been suggested already a couple of times, gonna bring it up again with some suggestions.

Let us make Cormyrian dragonscale part of the Villager/PDK/War wizard/etc sets. And give us some way to upgrade them with Commendations.

I dunno, multiple choices, use barter system like epic crafting. Make us add ONE of:

Superior false life.
Resistance +7.
Seeker +10 -> Seeker +15.
Toughness -> Improved Toughness, +40 HP, not stacking with a Toughness Item.
Exceptional fortification (+50%).
Protection +6 -> Protection +10.
STR/DEX/CON/INT/WIS/CHA +8/+3 Insightful.
Exceptional Melee Alacrity +10%.
Exceptional Shatter +3.
Exceptional Stunning +3.
Exceptional Vertigo +3.
Exceptional Tendon Slice +3.
Epic +4 Sneak Attack damage, +5 to hit with SA (stacking with ALL the other bonuses).
Epic +3 damage.
Ghostly.
Blurry.
Exceptional Wizardry II (Stacking +50/100 SP).
Concentration +20.
Inherent Elemental Resistance 10.
Exceptional +3% Dodge (stacking with normal +3% dodge).
Enhanced Ki +1.
Superior Fire/Force/Lightning/etc Lore, one of your choice, not all of them togheter.
Skill Mastery +1, +1 to all the skills, stacking with similar bonuses (like the one in the Shadowdancer's tree).
Epic Spell Focus: One of your choice.
Feater Falling.
Exceptional +20 Spell Power to one element
3/day Displacements clickies, lasting 3min
3/day Haste clickies, lasting 3min
2/day Immunity to curse clickies, Self only, 15 seconds each. Too long would be OP.
+2 Action boosts.

Why 3min clickies? Because I'm not sure anyone would slot those with all this stuff suggested. But at least there is THE CHOICE.

If you MUST HAVE have 3/day Haste clickies lasting 3 min each, go make another Red robe. More Epic Von6 raids for 20 FRDS Scales for you, more DDTW for 20 FGDS, more CitW raids, will keep you playing for a bit and maybe you will spend even some more money for Raid bypasser.


As you can see, most of the bonuses are either exceptional or improvements of the old ones. I'm not a fan of "we have the same stats just on different items so there is no real progression in our chars".

These are just SOME of the improvements that can be made to these armors. I'm pretty sure some of you can come up with some other cool stuff but I just wanted to give the general idea of my thoughts.

If I had a greendragon rob, with ONLY these suggestion, I wouldn't be sure what to add to my armor on my sorc: +100 Spell Points looks nice, another Epic Spell focus? Yes please. Also +50% stacking fortification could save me a Twist of Fate slot and still be immune to most crits. I could also add Cha +8/3 or maybe Con. Superior lore also looks nice on a full time armor. Exceptional +20 Spell Power? Og, too many choices.

On my rog's red robe, the situation is more like: Exceptional melee alacrity looks yummy, so does Seeker +15. Exceptional dodge would be also really nice coupled with Shadowform. +4 Stacking SA or +3 damage? Now that is something I would like also on a Fighter/Barb/Pally/whatever. +8/+3 Stats if you having troubles fitting them in, why not. +2 Action boosts anyone?

I want choices. Choices that makes my character better.

And before the "Powercreep is bad" crowd comes, I don't care if they balance Epic Elite based on these new stuff. As long as we have a REAL PROGRESSION with our chars, WE (if you are not part of this WE, not talking about you also) will ADAPT AND OVERCOME. Like we've ALWAYS done.

letour
10-28-2012, 09:44 AM
And before the "Powercreep is bad" crowd comes, I don't care if they balance Epic Elite based on these new stuff. As long as we have a REAL PROGRESSION with our chars, WE (if you are not part of this WE, not talking about you also) will ADAPT AND OVERCOME. Like we've ALWAYS done.

How can we have those armor by doing epic elite and now you want those armor to balance epic elite. I think you exclude a lot of new poeple in you suggestion who will after what you suggest never have hope to finish epic elite for your armor.

You also suggest something to change the game and excluse who are agains to put out their arguments. This is really a bad to bring your suggestion.

Tid12
10-28-2012, 09:57 AM
How can we have those armor by doing epic elite and now you want those armor to balance epic elite. I think you exclude a lot of new poeple in you suggestion who will after what you suggest never have hope to finish epic elite for your armor.

You also suggest something to change the game and excluse who are agains to put out their arguments. This is really a bad to bring your suggestion.

What? Have what you said a point? Following your reasonings, we can't have better stuff because then they should make Epic Elite (the hardest mode in the game) a bit more challenging? That has zero sense. We build our char to be always more powerful and be challenged with next updates. Then get even better. Then more challenge. If you have nothing to do with end-game and Epic Elite, this thread is not for you.

New people shouldn't be able to do Epic elite quests flawleslly. Full stop. It's meant to be for the best of the best. New people isn't the best of the best.

Change the game? Nop. You have epic hard, epic normal and epic casual if you don't like a challenge.

Jay203
10-28-2012, 11:17 AM
part of the set, yes
the list of upgrades, no

Tid12
10-28-2012, 11:22 AM
part of the set, yes
the list of upgrades, no

Why? Give me a reason at least.
What's wrong with a small upgrade to an armor that costed us already 20 FRDS and 3 Commendations + 375 PDK Favor? And that will cost even more Commendations? Is something OP in there? I don't think so.

Give me a reason why not.

Sarnind
10-28-2012, 12:13 PM
Reason? Too powerful ,I m agree with Jay203, yes for set

Systern
10-28-2012, 12:18 PM
Because giving us the ability to tailor our gear to perfection limits their future design space without resorting to powercreep and inflation.

No handwraps in U14? Oh lookie, there's some in U15...

People complain that there's been no better replacement for eSoS for years, and the khopeshes are always top dog... They have 2 choices, offer something with inflated stats, or let them rest as the king of the hill until everything else catches up, and only then inflate everything.

letour
10-28-2012, 01:56 PM
What? Have what you said a point? Following your reasonings, we can't have better stuff because then they should make Epic Elite (the hardest mode in the game) a bit more challenging? That has zero sense. We build our char to be always more powerful and be challenged with next updates. Then get even better. Then more challenge. If you have nothing to do with end-game and Epic Elite, this thread is not for you.

New people shouldn't be able to do Epic elite quests flawleslly. Full stop. It's meant to be for the best of the best. New people isn't the best of the best.

Change the game? Nop. You have epic hard, epic normal and epic casual if you don't like a challenge.

I think you does not understand the problem I bring to the table. The problem : If we can only suscess epic elite with only the stuff you found in that difficulty. How can you sucess your first run to get those item?

Tid12
10-28-2012, 02:54 PM
Reason? Too powerful ,I m agree with Jay203, yes for set

So, you guys don't want to get your toon more powerful? Guess it's okay, for you. I build mine to be always better and better. And if that means that the devs have to be a bit more original trying to find a way to challenge us even more, it's more than welcome.


Because giving us the ability to tailor our gear to perfection limits their future design space without resorting to powercreep and inflation.

No handwraps in U14? Oh lookie, there's some in U15...

People complain that there's been no better replacement for eSoS for years, and the khopeshes are always top dog... They have 2 choices, offer something with inflated stats, or let them rest as the king of the hill until everything else catches up, and only then inflate everything.

2 sub-par choices. Yeah, I guess, dex-based rogues can use the 3BC Tiefling Assassin's Blade but that doesn't mean they should equip that.


I think you does not understand the problem I bring to the table. The problem : If we can only suscess epic elite with only the stuff you found in that difficulty. How can you sucess your first run to get those item?

Like we always did: Skills.

How do you think people did EE when it first came out? We hadn't the equip we have now and we still did it. Equipment is just the tip of a much bigger iceberg.

Melt-emi
10-29-2012, 03:39 AM
part of the set, yes
the list of upgrades, no

I sign this.

Of course we want powerful items, but i don't want to walk in DDO instances and see that everyone (from rogues, to tanks, to casters, to healers) is dressed the same way. Those upgrades are out of discussion to me. That would just kill diversity and fun, making any other armor (past and future) simply obsolete.

giggiddy
10-29-2012, 05:02 AM
That list is obscenely ↑, ↓, ↑, ↓, ←, →, ←, →, A, B, A, B, Select, Start.

Tid12
10-29-2012, 05:42 AM
I sign this.

Of course we want powerful items, but i don't want to walk in DDO instances and see that everyone (from rogues, to tanks, to casters, to healers) is dressed the same way. Those upgrades are out of discussion to me. That would just kill diversity and fun, making any other armor (past and future) simply obsolete.

The fact that there is that list of suggestions doesn't prevent the Devs to make some other better armor in the future.

esheep
10-29-2012, 01:20 PM
Like we always did: Skills.

How do you think people did EE when it first came out? We hadn't the equip we have now and we still did it. Equipment is just the tip of a much bigger iceberg.

Then why bother with adding stuff? Reducing the amount of skill needed makes the game more boring/trivial.

I think it is fine to add them to the sets -- though in some cases it seems a bit silly (ie green armor on a caster, but...).

Tid12
10-29-2012, 01:43 PM
Then why bother with adding stuff? Reducing the amount of skill needed makes the game more boring/trivial.

I think it is fine to add them to the sets -- though in some cases it seems a bit silly (ie green armor on a caster, but...).

Like I said, equipment is the bit of the iceberg. But it's still a part of it. I think the majority of fun would get bored after a while if we had no goals to achieve (epic gears, tomes, raid gears, etc), that's why they should bother with adding more stuff.

Tiamas
10-29-2012, 01:59 PM
Because giving us the ability to tailor our gear to perfection limits their future design space without resorting to powercreep and inflation.


Pretty much this. In general. I still would like to be able to add the set-bonuses to the armors and probably the +8/+3 stats as you already can have those with the better named armors than can have the set bonuses too. Without the stats i probably wont use the dragon armor on any of my toons. Getting +8 somewhere else is quite hard, basically only random loot or the planar focus. And for me focus has the +3 (not available anywhere else, except armor). And giving up any other slot for random loot +8 isnt worth it either.

So yes, a bit more power to dragon armors. Set bonus + stat, complete free choice. (Nothing like strength/dex/con only on red, int/wis/cha only on green) Even the old dragon armors had slots so we had some customization possibilities. But because of the quoted part, no further bonuses.

DeafeningWhisper
10-29-2012, 02:22 PM
Making it part of a set sure, making red/green armor the new ESoS? Not so much, if we can costumize it, it'll become "best in slot" and everyone will wear the same armor with a few differences.

Kinda boring if after you get your green/red how you want it you'll never need to look into armor, ever again...

Tid12
10-29-2012, 02:43 PM
Making it part of a set sure, making red/green armor the new ESoS? Not so much, if we can costumize it, it'll become "best in slot" and everyone will wear the same armor with a few differences.

Kinda boring if after you get your green/red how you want it you'll never need to look into armor, ever again...

The point is, nobody is stopping Devs from making better armors than upgraded Red Armor. Maybe one more tankish with Inherent Elemental Resist 15, Stacking DR 15/-, stacking PRR, maybe more AC, MDB and you have a better tankish armor, than upgraded red armor. While your red armor can have more attack-related stuff on it. Not even with those stats, they were just a random thought. Or a robe one with just -15% Spell point, nothing else on it.

There are so many ideas to give us better gear but right now, all we have is the same old gear. Same old abilities. Nothing new exciting. Everything is either be-all end-all or sub-par.

They (the suggestions) might be OP (from your points of view) but at least they are not the plain old boring stats and would make a hard-to-get armor better than now.

Jay203
10-29-2012, 07:10 PM
customized powerhouse item...
look at what the greensteel did to the game, it created a bar in which all future items are compared to, and suffice to say the bar wasn't low....

countfitz
10-29-2012, 08:03 PM
The point is, nobody is stopping Devs from making better armors than upgraded Red Armor.

That is the very definition of Power Creep.

"Nobody is stopping the devs from making other things overpowered like what I want."

Set bonus SHOULD be the upgrade. MAYBE a +1 to armor for a second upgrade. Everything from your list is far overpowered considering the armor is already one of, if not the, best in slot.

Power creep is never a good thing in a game. Choices, yes. Powercreep of a single already powerful item, NO.

Luckily, I'm fairly sure Turbine is doing it right and giving us Epic Gianthold, which I can only assume will have three more epic dragonscale armors, to give more choices and not more powercreep.

I can only hope...

Tid12
10-30-2012, 02:57 AM
That is the very definition of Power Creep.

"Nobody is stopping the devs from making other things overpowered like what I want."

Set bonus SHOULD be the upgrade. MAYBE a +1 to armor for a second upgrade. Everything from your list is far overpowered considering the armor is already one of, if not the, best in slot.

Power creep is never a good thing in a game. Choices, yes. Powercreep of a single already powerful item, NO.

Luckily, I'm fairly sure Turbine is doing it right and giving us Epic Gianthold, which I can only assume will have three more epic dragonscale armors, to give more choices and not more powercreep.

I can only hope...

It is not Power creep if they adjust the game with the right challenges. They did it with EE and EDestinies. And I don't mean inflated HP/saves mobs. I mean with a mechanic like Normal Wiz King and Epic Wiz king, with additional Wraith respawning that would totally get an unprepared party etc.

But yeah, I can agree that I don't want another eSOS. But I still want more original effects. More original gear.

I can hope that the Epic White dragonscale won't turn out to be a: Heavy fort, Toughness, Superior Cold resistance, Cold Absorption 10% armor.

jakeelala
10-30-2012, 10:53 AM
None of these look to be overpowered or gamebreakiing.

+10 Prot? Big Deal
Sup. False Life? Awesome, NOT OP
Epic
+3 Epic Damage? We have that with PDK sets now. Not a big deal.

How exactly are these vastly OP? You guys are being ridic

jakeelala
10-30-2012, 10:55 AM
customized powerhouse item...
look at what the greensteel did to the game, it created a bar in which all future items are compared to, and suffice to say the bar wasn't low....

Greensteel was virtually 3-4x more powerful than ANY OTHER OPTION available at the time it was released. Greensteel was so vastly out of whack that this isn't even VAGUELY comparable.

To be comparable, this would have to have a long list of effects that don't even exist on other weapons at this point in the game (LS, Radiance, Inc, Freezing Ice, these all ONLY existed on GS and did not exist anywhere else for a LONG time).

Greensteel was lame; being afraid of new fun items is more lame.

Jay203
10-30-2012, 07:11 PM
It is not Power creep if they adjust the game with the right challenges. They did it with EE and EDestinies. And I don't mean inflated HP/saves mobs. I mean with a mechanic like Normal Wiz King and Epic Wiz king, with additional Wraith respawning that would totally get an unprepared party etc.

But yeah, I can agree that I don't want another eSOS. But I still want more original effects. More original gear.

I can hope that the Epic White dragonscale won't turn out to be a: Heavy fort, Toughness, Superior Cold resistance, Cold Absorption 10% armor.
no, it's what power creeping essentially is.
player get more powerful, dev raises overall difficulty of game to adjust to the power the players just acquired.
this whole time the power creep has been about upping the monster to hit/damage/hp/saves, as well as occasional blanket immunities
making infinite spawns as part of the game to create "challenge" is one of the worst way about it. it'll essentially become a resource-fest, and that usually ends up being easier for those that bought from ddo store (pay to win anyone?)


None of these look to be overpowered or gamebreakiing.

+10 Prot? Big Deal
Sup. False Life? Awesome, NOT OP
Epic
+3 Epic Damage? We have that with PDK sets now. Not a big deal.

How exactly are these vastly OP? You guys are being ridic

Greensteel was virtually 3-4x more powerful than ANY OTHER OPTION available at the time it was released. Greensteel was so vastly out of whack that this isn't even VAGUELY comparable.

To be comparable, this would have to have a long list of effects that don't even exist on other weapons at this point in the game (LS, Radiance, Inc, Freezing Ice, these all ONLY existed on GS and did not exist anywhere else for a LONG time).

Greensteel was lame; being afraid of new fun items is more lame.

what you fail to realize is what gs brought to the table when they came out
STACKING BONUSES
what the OP suggested basically are ways to get our current statistics higher than we currently are able to... things that stack on top everything else

we really shouldn't be going after for more bonuses that makes our stats go way higher than it already is... we already had that once with gs, look at the stats of the game now compared to what we had before gs, the power difference is quite... significant
the monster stats are like... what? doubled or tripled?

Tid12
10-31-2012, 05:27 AM
no, it's what power creeping essentially is.
player get more powerful, dev raises overall difficulty of game to adjust to the power the players just acquired.
this whole time the power creep has been about upping the monster to hit/damage/hp/saves, as well as occasional blanket immunities
making infinite spawns as part of the game to create "challenge" is one of the worst way about it. it'll essentially become a resource-fest, and that usually ends up being easier for those that bought from ddo store (pay to win anyone?)

There are ways to deal with mobs that don't include potting. CC is one of them. HP/Save/Damage is not the only way to create a challenge in this game. Killing 2-4 mobs at once might be another way, like shroud pt2. Abbot is another (bad implemented thou, don't like the "1 team fails you have to re-start" mode) example where puzzles can be a challenge.



what you fail to realize is what gs brought to the table when they came out
STACKING BONUSES
what the OP suggested basically are ways to get our current statistics higher than we currently are able to... things that stack on top everything else

we really shouldn't be going after for more bonuses that makes our stats go way higher than it already is... we already had that once with gs, look at the stats of the game now compared to what we had before gs, the power difference is quite... significant
the monster stats are like... what? doubled or tripled?

So you are saying we should NEVER EVER have more stacking bonuses because..it's a bad thing? No, thanks.

The power difference is quite significant yeah but the challenge is still there, on EE and EE raids. Noone ever complained till MotU that EE is too easy AFAIK, I see no reason to not give us better gears and better abilities if they can still challenge us.

DeafeningWhisper
10-31-2012, 08:36 AM
So you are saying we should NEVER EVER have more stacking bonuses because..it's a bad thing? No, thanks.

I agree, the reason hp inflation is the name of the game is the over abundance of stacking boni. Numerical increase of stats/saves should be replaced by unique buffs (think blurry, ghostly and so on).


The power difference is quite significant yeah but the challenge is still there, on EE and EE raids. Noone ever complained till MotU that EE is too easy AFAIK, I see no reason to not give us better gears and better abilities if they can still challenge us.

No one complained EE was too easy before MoTU becuase it didn't exist.

You want more power for something you already have: scale armor and want to up the game difficulty to make up for the obvious power creep... You're asking to change the game to fit *your vision* of a single peice of gear, you see how it may look selfish no?

Tid12
10-31-2012, 08:48 AM
No one complained EE was too easy before MoTU becuase it didn't exist.

You want more power for something you already have: scale armor and want to up the game difficulty to make up for the obvious power creep... You're asking to change the game to fit *your vision* of a single peice of gear, you see how it may look selfish no?

Sorry, I meant FROM the release date of MotU.

Noone, after MotU came I mean, complained that EE is too easy. Even now, PUGs struggle to do EE. And guilds prefer to not pug them because they are hard. It's just a truth.

I'm not asking to change the game. I'm asking for original stuff. It's (almost) the same thing as eSOS but with gear. I don't mind if they add them over time and so on. I just wish I had more and NEW abilities to play with.

Lacking of original abilities is what I see. And that is what I want. It's natural that as we advance in the game (both with gear and levels), the more it becomes difficult. Then why can't we have some original gear? And not the same old boring stats?

Originality in gear's development is what I'm looking for.

DeafeningWhisper
10-31-2012, 09:11 AM
Sorry, I meant FROM the release date of MotU.

Noone, after MotU came I mean, complained that EE is too easy. Even now, PUGs struggle to do EE. And guilds prefer to not pug them because they are hard. It's just a truth.

I'm not asking to change the game. I'm asking for original stuff. It's (almost) the same thing as eSOS but with gear. I don't mind if they add them over time and so on. I just wish I had more and NEW abilities to play with.

Lacking of original abilities is what I see. And that is what I want. It's natural that as we advance in the game (both with gear and levels), the more it becomes difficult. Then why can't we have some original gear? And not the same old boring stats?

Originality in gear's development is what I'm looking for.

Then why ask to buff one piece of gear? They release new stuff in every update, they are fianally adding a nice light armor with superior false life in the next for example.

Asking to make scale armor more powerful is not original, ESoS killed originality setting the bar way too high for THF weapons. There are many nice THF weapons, which are mainly used by players who don't have ESoS yet...

I would hate for the same to happen to armor, all original/niche armors becoming place holder for the uber, true end game, best in slot bar none, scale armors. Kinda kills the originality and costumization aspect of the game if everyone is wearing a variation of the same item.

Tid12
10-31-2012, 09:42 AM
Then why ask to buff one piece of gear? They release new stuff in every update, they are fianally adding a nice light armor with superior false life in the next for example.

Asking to make scale armor more powerful is not original, ESoS killed originality setting the bar way too high for THF weapons. There are many nice THF weapons, which are mainly used by players who don't have ESoS yet...

I would hate for the same to happen to armor, all original/niche armors becoming place holder for the uber, true end game, best in slot bar none, scale armors. Kinda kills the originality and costumization aspect of the game if everyone is wearing a variation of the same item.

And Exceptional Sneak attack +3 (probably +5 on ML25). Again. Not stacking with the other Exceptional SA that we have. Not sure anyone will ever wear this. But it's also true that what we have seen is the ML23 and not the ML25.

Maybe you are right, my suggestions on ONE armor might be a problem. But those suggestions can be spread all over the place. Put one in a pair of gloves, another in the trinket spot, another one in the armor.

You are right, I'm the first to hate the eSOS and the bar it did set. But I also hate seeing again another Light armor with nothing new on it.

Now, that Nether grasps(gloves)? With Demonic Might on it? Now that is interesting, never seen before, original. Hardly OP.

Jay203
10-31-2012, 07:18 PM
And Exceptional Sneak attack +3 (probably +5 on ML25). Again. Not stacking with the other Exceptional SA that we have. Not sure anyone will ever wear this. But it's also true that what we have seen is the ML23 and not the ML25.

Maybe you are right, my suggestions on ONE armor might be a problem. But those suggestions can be spread all over the place. Put one in a pair of gloves, another in the trinket spot, another one in the armor.

You are right, I'm the first to hate the eSOS and the bar it did set. But I also hate seeing again another Light armor with nothing new on it.

Now, that Nether grasps(gloves)? With Demonic Might on it? Now that is interesting, never seen before, original. Hardly OP.

demonic might is on epic souleater as well

Tid12
11-01-2012, 04:18 AM
demonic might is on epic souleater as well

Yeah, one thing noone uses anymore. On the gloves spot instead, might find some place. I would also know if the bonus is better on the EH and EE version but I guess we will find it out when U16 goes live. Looks like noone is trying to do them on elite.

Indoran
11-08-2012, 12:48 AM
making part of sets

/signed

improving it further

/not so sure if signing or not

Carpone
12-22-2012, 11:32 AM
part of the set, yes
the list of upgrades, no
This. Cormyrian armor is already amazing by itself. Allowing the set bonus is more than enough.

FengXian
12-23-2012, 08:34 AM
Set yes, makes sense.

The list is http://ddowiki.com/page/Insanity incarnate. Not only some of the bonuses are crazy good on an armor that is already very good, but you also get to choose which one you want? ZOMG O_o