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View Full Version : Un-nerf Displacement.



Ape_Man
10-22-2012, 02:51 PM
The U14 change to displacement only hurts new players.

Vets can easily craft clickies, we have metric tons of tier II ingredients from years of shrouding.

New players cannot craft these nearly as easily. Since this game is all about new players the displacement nerf makes no sense.

Since this makes no sense you must acquit.

Please don't make me post a giant picture of Chewbacca.

Kmnh
10-22-2012, 03:27 PM
Displacement is fine as it is. The clickies are a limited resource, so you have to time it right. Newbie casters don't get assigned the terrible job of keeping raid parties displaced. The ability to stay permanently displaced is the arcane caster's main defense in a world where everyone else is wearing armor or is a monk.

Karavek
10-22-2012, 03:33 PM
The U14 change to displacement only hurts new players.

Vets can easily craft clickies, we have metric tons of tier II ingredients from years of shrouding.

New players cannot craft these nearly as easily. Since this game is all about new players the displacement nerf makes no sense.

Since this makes no sense you must acquit.

Please don't make me post a giant picture of Chewbacca.

its easy to get armor good enough to give a 50% miss chance at lvl, this is the warrior equiv of displacement. You can still get perma blur easily on gear. Sounds to me like an elitist trying to pull some very lame reverse psycho babble.

Move along folks nothing of any import to see in this thread

Ape_Man
10-22-2012, 03:40 PM
its easy to get armor good enough to give a 50% miss chance at lvl, this is the warrior equiv of displacement. You can still get perma blur easily on gear. Sounds to me like an elitist trying to pull some very lame reverse psycho babble.

Move along folks nothing of any import to see in this thread

All my toons can either cast the spell or have enough clickies to last between shrines in pretty much all content.

this change would actually be more of a pain for me as my casters would have to hit people with this buff. I've enjoyed my break from having to displace people but it's time for that to come to an end.

Changing the spell won't affect my melees one way or the other., I'm thinking more of the lesser players and I'm sure you could appreciate that.

Chai
10-22-2012, 10:33 PM
its easy to get armor good enough to give a 50% miss chance at lvl, this is the warrior equiv of displacement. You can still get perma blur easily on gear. Sounds to me like an elitist trying to pull some very lame reverse psycho babble.

Move along folks nothing of any import to see in this thread

That 50% is nothing compared to the 95% miss chance we had in heroic previous to the change, and in those days we had displacement castable on everyone as well. The before / after comparison doesnt support your stance on the issue. Whose pulling the reverse psycho babble now?

The view of the elitist would be to make the newbies earn it like everyone else had to, yet the OP didnt post that view.

GeneralDiomedes
10-22-2012, 11:03 PM
Newbs who play a lot no longer become newbs, vets leave because "the game is dying", problem solved!

Sinsyne
10-23-2012, 07:57 AM
*sigh of relief* I'm sooo happy we don't have another spell to cast on every single party member every 2-4 mintues to make up for their lack of gear/bad gear choices. If you need that 50% miss chance (instead of the 20% you might get from a blur), use those clickies... :)
For newbies it's not a problem, I have yet to see a newb caster memorize displacement instead of the uber cool fireball. ;)

Kmnh
10-23-2012, 08:38 AM
If the devs decide that displacement clickies are overpowered, they will add a change similar to the crystal cove dagger to prevent people from carrying multiple clickies. I don't think they are powerful enough to warrant that, but I'm biased.

FranOhmsford
10-23-2012, 08:51 AM
*sigh of relief* I'm sooo happy we don't have another spell to cast on every single party member every 2-4 mintues to make up for their lack of gear/bad gear choices. If you need that 50% miss chance (instead of the 20% you might get from a blur), use those clickies... :)
For newbies it's not a problem, I have yet to see a newb caster memorize displacement instead of the uber cool fireball. ;)

Lvl 3 spells that always come before BOTH Displacement and Fireball for me:

Rage
Heroism
Magic Circle
Prot: Energy
Haste
For a Warforged - Repair Serious

Yes at higher levels Heroism can be dropped BUT that just gets replaced by whatever I couldn't take before.

The Short Duration of Displacement makes it a drain on Spell Points at Low Levels.

If it was castable on others it would be much more relevant however - The Cleric especially would be displaced if I could - The Tanks/Melee when needed.

licho
10-23-2012, 10:35 AM
Not sure if trolling or just have no clue. :-/

This is bad suggestion. Reasons:
Casual is always the option. And so is normal. If you are beginner "Why U R pushing Elite?!" Also on normal/hard you dont need displacment. Lol.

There are some options for demage mitigacion: PRR, dodge, blur item, sometimes AC, DR.

Displacment is OP, its enought that casters have it, but lets assume they pay for it with no PRR. Shall we break a circle of "we need more easy buttons <-> why this game is so easy?"

redspecter23
10-23-2012, 10:46 AM
My feeling is that if the devs felt displacement was overpowered it should have been removed completely. If it's OP, it's still OP as a self cast spell. I find it a bit ironic that a melee bard with displacement up has an insane damage mitigation potential based mostly on that one spell, combined with moderate AC and some reasonable dodge potential. Casters essentially have a BASE mitigation score of 50% then add any AC, dodge, etc on top of that.

I think that I'd also be happy if the spell had more potential to be used by other classes in situational roles. The clickies from Shroud are nice, but as stated, they are not easily accessible to new players. The thing is, they aren't needed or likely wanted by new players. Turbine could probably add in displacement as rare loot gen clickies and it could solve the problem somewhat. I think an interesting set of full plate could be made with perma displacement on it

Base AC 0
AC minus 15
permanent displacement effect

You give up 40ish endgame AC points for a permanent displacement effect. Sad thing is, it might actually be too powerful like that.

Ape_Man
10-23-2012, 10:48 AM
In all versions of D&D it's a black-letter rule that displacement can be cast on others. it's a Turbine change, not taken from actual D&D.

Was this OP prior to U14?

Ape_Man
10-23-2012, 10:51 AM
Turbine could probably add in displacement as rare loot gen clickies and it could solve the problem somewhat.

That would be fine too as I cannot imagine a new player running shroud as often as we used to. I made the clikies because for years I ran it everyday and just had the ingredients lying around. A player starting at MoTU won't have that option as shroud just isn't run as often.

knightgf
10-23-2012, 10:53 AM
I thought there was no issue with displacement before. Why it was needed to be changed for self-only defies me. Maybe it's another one of the many things that slipped past QA.

Schmoe
10-23-2012, 10:54 AM
The U14 change to displacement only hurts new players.

Vets can easily craft clickies, we have metric tons of tier II ingredients from years of shrouding.

New players cannot craft these nearly as easily. Since this game is all about new players the displacement nerf makes no sense.

Since this makes no sense you must acquit.

Please don't make me post a giant picture of Chewbacca.

/signed

I agree that it is more of a nerf to new players than anything else. It has minimal effect on vets and simply reduces the amount that people can coordinate teamwork for success.

Sinsyne
10-23-2012, 12:25 PM
I thought there was no issue with displacement before. Why it was needed to be changed for self-only defies me. Maybe it's another one of the many things that slipped past QA.

I think they expected the new AC system would breed viable armored toons or maybe even wizards with bracers of protection, just like in (A)DnD. (Maybe it did.) And good AC/Dodge + Displacement, they might felt it would be too much.

Tbh the only place displacement feels really OP for me is Epic Elite. The attack/damage on EE is so ridiculously high (not that I'm against it... or behind it) that decent AC and PR worths abs nothing while displacement still gives that 50 pct against some EE foes. (Not against the drow... but maybe against the spiders?? And foes in Eberron epics.)

Xezrak
10-23-2012, 10:03 PM
My main is an arcane caster, have no issues with displacement going back to the way it was before.

Melees should have better damage mitigation then casters.

/signed

FranOhmsford
10-24-2012, 09:48 PM
I think they expected the new AC system would breed viable armored toons or maybe even wizards with bracers of protection, just like in (A)DnD. (Maybe it did.) And good AC/Dodge + Displacement, they might felt it would be too much.


Big problem here:

Armoured Bracers do not stack with Armour values on Robes/Outfits.

Armour Values on Robes/Outfits have pretty much made Armoured Bracers obsolete.

Protection and Natural Armour are of course available as they always have been.

What we have is simply a change from Armoured Bracers: Black Widow, Scorched, Jidz Tet'ka to Armoured Robes/Outfits.
Again invalidating these Bracers as options!

9Crows
10-24-2012, 10:25 PM
i want displace for pets/summons...real players have ways of mitigating damage through gear and build choices pets and summons dont.. no matter what gear/buffs you put on your pet they get chewed up fast in ehard and eelite quests....displacement helped alot with that

Rodasch
10-24-2012, 10:44 PM
/not signed.

I like Displacement the way it is. It's ridiculous to expect arcanes to blow through half their blue bars every rest shrine just keeping everyone displaced when most don't need it, and half or more of those who "need" it will do fine with just blur.

With it being self only, the burden of keeping each player displaced falls properly on the player desiring the displacement...

danzig138
10-25-2012, 08:47 AM
Displacement is fine as it is. No, it isn't, but hey, feel free to keep on being wrong. Well, I guess it is fine if you want to play a game that has nothing to do with the rule set it's supposed to be based on. Since I think trying to get them to move back towards that rule set is the way we should be headed (instead of this D&D-in-name-only BS), then fixing displacement is one of the steps on that path. If you disagree, fine. You're still utterly, totally wrong.

unbongwah
10-25-2012, 02:07 PM
My hunch is that the Turbine devs tried to give each class their own unique defense mechanism(s); thus arcanes have Displacement, barbs & rogues have Imp Uncanny Dodge, (dark) monks get Shadow Fade, ftr / pally tanks have higher AC & PRR from SD/DoS, etc. Divines didn't really get anything (apart from the AC & PRR changes in general), but they already had plenty of self-heals, so who cares? :p So if they unnerfed Displacement (which can be replicated with Shroud clickies anyway), what else would arcanes have that's class-unique?

redspecter23
10-25-2012, 02:26 PM
So if they unnerfed Displacement (which can be replicated with Shroud clickies anyway), what else would arcanes have that's class-unique?

The ability to defensively use nearly all of their abilities at range away from the most deadly attacks, while able to use terrain and mobility to avoid ranged attacks that are often much weaker than the same mob would do in melee range.

The ability to dispatch multiple mobs at once either with mass instakill or kiting through AOE, taking little to no damage while running.

Amazing self healing either with reconstruct, heal scrolls or pale master abilities.

No need to even stop DPS'ing while healing. That wall of fire, acid rain or multiple dots are still ticking while you pause for a moment to get your HP back into a safe zone.

Feralthyrtiaq
10-25-2012, 03:00 PM
My hunch is that the Turbine devs tried to give each class their own unique defense mechanism(s); thus arcanes have Displacement, barbs & rogues have Imp Uncanny Dodge, (dark) monks get Shadow Fade, ftr / pally tanks have higher AC & PRR from SD/DoS, etc. Divines didn't really get anything (apart from the AC & PRR changes in general), but they already had plenty of self-heals, so who cares? :p So if they unnerfed Displacement (which can be replicated with Shroud clickies anyway), what else would arcanes have that's class-unique?

F(eatures).

1) "You are not facing...."
2) "Out of range...."
3) "Party members yelling HJASTE PLZ"

WAI

solacerodgers
10-25-2012, 05:28 PM
[QUOTE=Ape_Man;4737312]The U14 change to displacement only hurts new players.

Vets can easily craft clickies, we have metric tons of tier II ingredients from years of shrouding.

New players cannot craft these nearly as easily. { Since this game is all about new players } the displacement nerf makes no sense.

All about new players? Not even close epic fail. Either way it's fine as is you have GS and Dragon marks if you want to go that way and a teir 2 takes no where near your years of farming to make ( nor does a 3 for that matter ) sounds very troll to me. Either way support the long time users screw new players!

Jasparion
10-25-2012, 05:58 PM
In all versions of D&D it's a black-letter rule that displacement can be cast on others. it's a Turbine change, not taken from actual D&D.

Was this OP prior to U14?

If we are talking D&D you were probably restricted to 4 or 5 of these per day, maybe less if you wanted some offensive ability.

Would you be okay with self/friend for Displacement if you could only cast 4 or 5 per 24 hour period?


No, it isn't, but hey, feel free to keep on being wrong. Well, I guess it is fine if you want to play a game that has nothing to do with the rule set it's supposed to be based on.

Someone else who seems to be keen on a pretty severe restriction on the number of times you could cast the spell per day.

Here is a small hint for you: DDO would absolutely suck if they were true to all PnP rules. And given they need to move away from the PnP rules from time to time, you are going to see some things buffed and some things nerfed.

How many Maximised/Empowered Fireballs/Acid Blast/Necrotic Ray/Whatever per day do you get in PnP? How about DDO?

Should they have stayed true to this as well?

maddmatt70
10-26-2012, 12:23 AM
I always wondered why they chose the nerf the devs did. Why not make the displacement spell a bard only spell? Really why nerf it for bards which have a much different situation compared to wizards and sorcerers? Bards have such limited spell options. The devs should have made displacement a bard only spell instead of a self only spell..

samthedagger
10-26-2012, 02:29 AM
Displacement is fine as it is. The clickies are a limited resource, so you have to time it right. Newbie casters don't get assigned the terrible job of keeping raid parties displaced. The ability to stay permanently displaced is the arcane caster's main defense in a world where everyone else is wearing armor or is a monk.

^ This.

azrael4h
10-26-2012, 04:05 AM
I like how anyone who agrees with the current implementation

a - Insists that anyone who disagrees with them is wrong, a terrorist, and should be killed
b - Insists that this somehow affects new players, who have neither the twitch skill nor sp to keep full groups Displaced constantly
c - Conveniently ignore that 90% of melees suddenly went from 5% miss chance pre U14 to 50-60% miss chance post U14, with anywhere from 1-% to 40% DR from 0. And have the option to tack on another 25% miss chance that stacks with AC, and still have 20% from Blur.
d - Somehow think all new players are only running Epic Elites, at level 1-20.

Basically, the argument is "Wah! I can't abuse new players into being my personal slaves! Wah! New players are the only ones who haven't blacklisted me yet, so who will be my slave since no vet will put up with me! Wah!" Go cry emo kid. They'll blacklist you too soon enough. Even without you screaming at them for a displacement.