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Syllph
10-09-2012, 06:57 AM
Here's an idea:

Many of us have played MMOs before DDO. Many of us have even designed quests in games that allow modification (TES, BG to a degree, and of course NWN)

Have players submit their ideas. Turbine brings them to life. (ie they set xp, place loot, etc. This prevents exploitation) Instead of making content that you -think- we will like (and many times we don't), why not make content we know we will like?

This content could be a single quest, a raid, a special/seasonal event, challenge, or even a series of quests.

Implementation:

While I understand it might be impossible to implement a truly player crafted dungeon, perhaps make a yearly contest.

Everyone who cares to enter submit their ideas to you.
Make a deadline of say one month to submit.

Let's say during the month of January all players interested submit their proposal. February the deadline is cut off. Now, Turbine, you have 10 months to look at the proposals and decide the top ten you've enjoyed. Resubmit those on the forums and players now have 1 month to cast votes)

This means the first new player-pack wouldn't come out until after the year + the time it takes to fabricate it, but it would be well worth the wait. Each year this contest would happen and each year we could be guaranteed some content we like.

The winner of the yearly prize gets to come in (if they choose) and do voice acting for the new content.

What we, the players, would need from Turbine is a list of restrictions. For example perhaps do to legalities we cannot create anything with Drizzit. Perhaps due to limitations we cannot ask for the city of Baldur's Gate (though this would be cool). Perhaps. etc..... The list could be very long, but it would give us something to work with.

With these guidelines in place we could submit proposals that would not waste Turbine's time as each proposal would at least be possible. Best part is Turbine spent no time -thinking- of a concept, and the content would be player approved before its release.

dodger72
10-09-2012, 07:18 AM
My God....brilliant! Truly!

Contest based around a certain scheme....4-5 quests and/or a raid and maybe a wilderness zone?

I love this idea!

/signed ad nauseum

adam1oftheround
10-09-2012, 08:06 AM
Make or break the game it will.

Syllph
10-09-2012, 03:31 PM
Even if nothing more came from this than Turbine having possibly 1000s of new ideas, I've seen some very creative players and ideas that i wish they would incorporate.

goodoldxelos
10-10-2012, 06:14 AM
I do think one of the biggest successes the new neverwinter game will have is the player driven content. In many games people who don't get paid to create content have created better work than the original developers (neverwinter nights 1 and 2). Also consider the numerous games with mods that have outstripped the popularization of the original creations.

I'd be interested in seeing the developers quest creation tools.

Syllph
10-10-2012, 06:40 AM
That would be nice as well, but I'd like to start off small and make it available immediately. If we make ideas that Turbine can create I feel this can be implemented much sooner.

Dunklerlindwurm
10-10-2012, 06:52 AM
I fear that the Dungeon-Crafting Tool of NW will be nothing more then a new way to get $$ quick.

What will probably happen is...

You can buy different rooms for $

You can buy different Monsters for $

You can buy furniture and stuff for $

And And and....

And after you have spend alot of $ you can finaly make a somewhat ok dungeon that wont be very different from all the other dungeons that other players can create.

baletraeger
10-10-2012, 06:53 AM
The boys in legal will have a field day with this one.

Meetch1972
10-10-2012, 06:56 AM
So like... we put this dragon... in this dungeon ? And then the players gotta go in 'n' kill it or whatever...

Oh, not after the idea here? Darn! But the OP makes sense, if it's viable. Perhaps even extend offers to winners of the contest to spend a little time seeing how things work in design/development as they help flesh it out in person! :D

Tanassa
10-10-2012, 07:00 AM
Now that's new...

/signed

Mastikator
10-10-2012, 08:20 AM
What's to stop a player from designing a dungeon that gives 10k xp and takes 5 seconds to complete? Or a chest that has 100% drop rate for +4 tomes :/

Syllph
10-10-2012, 08:24 AM
What's to stop a player from designing a dungeon that gives 10k xp and takes 5 seconds to complete? Or a chest that has 100% drop rate for +4 tomes :/

That's why we don't make it. Turbine has the final say in all the parameters, the idea here is to have the players submit the quest basis:

players could design the basic layout for the map, the type of mobs they want, the quest objectives (like say, not escorting an npc....), and the location of the quest: Marketplace, GH, Forgotten Realms, etc

what Turbine would have say over is:

The xp for that quest based on the challenge they believe it provides (this could be also player-voted on)

The new equipment involved.

for example let's say a player wanted to submit a design for a new type of dragon quest. The actual submission would be greatly more detailed than this mock-up:

The quest would have a lengthy summit up a volcano located in GH. up to the single remaining dragon after the GH devastation. After battling appropriate mobs along the way players face the dragon, and when the dragon reaches 75% HP something would cause the floor to fall out.

Now players are free falling into the lava while still battling the dragon (totally a rip-off of the Gandolf free fall fight in LoTr because I thought that was an awesome scene).

They have, say, 2 min to kill the dragon before they all fall into the lava and makes completing the quest all but impossible. If they kill the dragon before the 2 min are up the dragon's body functions as an island and the final chest appears on his corpse.

Devs make this fun quest, set the XP and stock the chest.

This is a very simple idea. I've seen some truly gifted players out there that have imaginations that make me want to jump into a pnp campaign to bring them to life now! Let's bring that kind of fun, innovated, and enjoyable atmosphere to DDO.

Expalphalog
10-10-2012, 08:33 AM
What's to stop a player from designing a dungeon that gives 10k xp and takes 5 seconds to complete? Or a chest that has 100% drop rate for +4 tomes :/

Read the OP instead of just assuming what it's saying.

We've all read the "Player Designed Content" thread a thousand times and yes, in every one before this one, your reply is perfectly valid. But this isn't that same old tired thread and the very first post outlines perfectly what's to stop a player from doing that.

Mastikator
10-10-2012, 08:45 AM
That's why we don't make it. Turbine has the final say in all the parameters, the idea here is to have the players submit the quest basis:

players could design the basic layout for the map, the type of mobs they want, the quest objectives (like say, not escorting an npc....), and the location of the quest: Marketplace, GH, Forgotten Realms, etc

what Turbine would have say over is:

The xp for that quest based on the challenge they believe it provides (this could be also player-voted on)

The new equipment involved.

for example let's say a player wanted to submit a design for a new type of dragon quest. The actual submission would be greatly more detailed than this mock-up:

The quest would have a lengthy summit up a volcano located in GH. up to the single remaining dragon after the GH devastation. After battling appropriate mobs along the way players face the dragon, and when the dragon reaches 75% HP something would cause the floor to fall out.

Now players are free falling into the lava while still battling the dragon (totally a rip-off of the Gandolf free fall fight in LoTr because I thought that was an awesome scene).

They have, say, 2 min to kill the dragon before they all fall into the lava and makes completing the quest all but impossible. If they kill the dragon before the 2 min are up the dragon's body functions as an island and the final chest appears on his corpse.

Devs make this fun quest, set the XP and stock the chest.

This is a very simple idea. I've seen some truly gifted players out there that have imaginations that make me want to jump into a pnp campaign to bring them to life now! Let's bring that kind of fun, innovated, and enjoyable atmosphere to DDO.

What happens if you do that here on the suggestion board?
Like, post a suggested map layout with room sketches, all the monsters and events, in great detail about where and how and how many. I'm not so cynical I'd think they'd ignore if it was good.

Syllph
10-10-2012, 09:01 AM
What happens if you do that here on the suggestion board?
Like, post a suggested map layout with room sketches, all the monsters and events, in great detail about where and how and how many. I'm not so cynical I'd think they'd ignore if it was good.

That would be great, however, I'd like turbine to state what they are able to give. Give us parameters we can work with.

If we randomly start posting ideas that Turbine simply can't/won't use then it's kind of a let down and the idea could just fall by the wayside.

It would be awesome if a dev team could look at this, and say, "Yup, syllph, read it - and we'll get back to you in a month and give you some guidelines." (For example maybe they simply cannot have us designate where the new map will be located. Let's just hope they can give us a guideline we can follow, then we can be much more productive in our plans.

Mastikator
10-10-2012, 09:59 AM
Ah, yeah ok it's a good idea.

Cardoor
10-10-2012, 07:35 PM
I really like this idea but spoilers could be a problem. Everyone who reads the forum would know what is going to happen before they entered the quest. Not a deal breaker - because it would still be fun to see the idea come to life, plus it will be new to all of the non forum gamers.

Pretending I was Turbine, I thought of a few guidelines that might increase the chances of this happening...

Guidelines

Existing Setting: Takes place in FR or Ebberon.

Existing Content: Uses existing Monsters, Items, Collectables etc. The exception would be if Turbine announced it was introducing something new (like Gnomes for example) and asked that we create an adventure with the new content.

Existing Tilesets: The adventure could take place in a room full of rainbow marshmallows only if a rainbow marshmallow room already existed somewhere in the game.

Standardized Dialog Tree: The devs would show us a dialog tree template and give us the character limitations for quantity and/or allowable font sets (wingdings for example).

Originality: Don't plagiarize someone else's work word for word. If you are going to borrow or rework an idea be sure to add your own originality.

Xezrak
10-10-2012, 09:13 PM
I would give +1 if I hadn't given out so much already but yes fantastic idea.

Or if there was a way to upload your custom made maps to a server and then when you click on a portal you can enter the name of and play a custom adventure map.

I think custom made adventures should give out random loot and xp only based roughly on average completion time, average CR/ number of creatures etc.

It would be fun to play a custom made DDO tower defense map :O

Uska
10-11-2012, 12:02 AM
I do think one of the biggest successes the new neverwinter game will have is the player driven content. In many games people who don't get paid to create content have created better work than the original developers (neverwinter nights 1 and 2). Also consider the numerous games with mods that have outstripped the popularization of the original creations.

I'd be interested in seeing the developers quest creation tools.


I predict that game will crash hard fast . Player made content will never work here other than the way the OP did people giving ideas to the devs they dont have a set of ready made tools to pass out and even if they did to much time would be spent making sure content was acceptable that we would get new content only very rarely.

dodger72
10-11-2012, 06:07 AM
I think what the OP is alluding to (and please correct me if I am wrong) is the players design the new content coming out...not random generated or only player designed content.

Believe it or not, there's a storyline involved in this game and I'm pretty sure the dev's want to keep it that way with only slight deviation.

The idea's the players would bring forth would have to fit within the scheme of the game itself and into the style of the game (either FR or Eberron).

Let's not overthink this.

The suggestion is to have the players design dungeons. There could be a suggestion box e-mail to submit these ideas to, not necessarily on the forums, though that is another avenue.

Syllph
10-11-2012, 06:14 AM
I think what the OP is alluding to (and please correct me if I am wrong) is the players design the new content coming out...not random generated or only player designed content.

Believe it or not, there's a storyline involved in this game and I'm pretty sure the dev's want to keep it that way with only slight deviation.

The idea's the players would bring forth would have to fit within the scheme of the game itself and into the style of the game (either FR or Eberron).

Let's not overthink this.

The suggestion is to have the players design dungeons. There could be a suggestion box e-mail to submit these ideas to, not necessarily on the forums, though that is another avenue.

Yes. This is why I would like Turbine to comment saying yes or no before we all start flooding the forums with our idea. We need to know some parameters that we can work with.

Cardoor
10-11-2012, 07:00 PM
Yes. This is why I would like Turbine to comment saying yes or no before we all start flooding the forums with our idea. We need to know some parameters that we can work with.

TE = Turbine Employee

TE#1: Hey, the players want to create adventures.

TE#2: It won't work.

TE#1: No , not like NWN, they want to provide the framework and idea, then have us build it.

TE#2: We already have thousands of ideas and more than enough to do. What we need is more time.

TE#1: What if the forum goes crazy over a proposed adventure though?

TE#2: I will believe it when I see it... until then lets focus on whats already on our plate.

Cardoor: The above scenario, though fictional, reminds me a little of reality.

Seikojin
10-12-2012, 02:45 PM
I like the idea, but it is too costly to do that. It would be cheaper to have something more automated than to have a review and design committee working on player generated ideas.

Syllph
10-12-2012, 11:43 PM
I like the idea, but it is too costly to do that. It would be cheaper to have something more automated than to have a review and design committee working on player generated ideas.

you really think it' too costly to have a once a year contests that could produce a premium pack that players would drool over? I think they would make a lot of money, and worse case scenario they'd have tons of new ideas.

dodger72
10-13-2012, 02:28 PM
agreed....I have a PnP campaign from the old Advanced DnD (II) days that lasted 6 years of play time (yes...was weekly play for 6 years on that campaign....my old group played solid for 16 years). Pretty sure not only I but many other folks out there have something to contribute.

Yearly contest to add into current content. Winner gets bragging rights and maybe a few other perks in game on all toons created at the time? Hmmm..

Bradik_Losdar
10-14-2012, 10:32 AM
(Regarding NWN)


I predict that game will crash hard fast . Player made content will never work here other than the way the OP did people giving ideas to the devs they dont have a set of ready made tools to pass out and even if they did to much time would be spent making sure content was acceptable that we would get new content only very rarely.

You might be surprised.

The Foundry in Star Trek Online is doing very well - even with its currently limited number of player tools. There are a huge number of player made missions that the Devs themselves have admited are better than what they've done.

I hope that DDO will do something similar in order to compete with NWN (as I have a great fondness for DDO (see 'Founder' title :p) and somewhat dislike Cryptic's combat system). My suggetion for such is listed in the third line of my sig below. :)

goodoldxelos
10-16-2012, 08:14 AM
(Regarding NWN)



You might be surprised.

The Foundry in Star Trek Online is doing very well - even with its currently limited number of player tools. There are a huge number of player made missions that the Devs themselves have admited are better than what they've done.

I hope that DDO will do something similar in order to compete with NWN (as I have a great fondness for DDO (see 'Founder' title :p) and somewhat dislike Cryptic's combat system). My suggetion for such is listed in the third line of my sig below. :)

I've suggested this idea before and there is a fallacy that exists where the average player cannot make similar quality content than what the official developers can do. I would bet on that an average player can make far better content than what the official developers can do and will spend more developing it (and do it for free).

Turbine, can we see a demo (youtube/pictures) of your tools?

bibliomane
10-16-2012, 10:19 AM
What's to stop a player from designing a dungeon that gives 10k xp and takes 5 seconds to complete? Or a chest that has 100% drop rate for +4 tomes :/

Have you run Kobold's New Ringleader lately?


I would be all over this. XD

Seikojin
10-16-2012, 11:24 AM
you really think it' too costly to have a once a year contests that could produce a premium pack that players would drool over? I think they would make a lot of money, and worse case scenario they'd have tons of new ideas.

If there was a larger, more stable income for the company, sure, a submit and review thing could work. It just costs waay too much money to impliment after the product has been released.

The cost to add code and fix things is 10 times the cost of pre-release development of the same code and fix. So adding such a huge feature like this would introduce many bugs. There would be a lot of extra work.

Even if they were to do something more automated like I have talked about before, it still would be extremely costly to devlope code wise.

Unless some heavy investors are willing to invest, it won't be able to be done. Not trying to be a negative nancy; I like the idea, I yearn for it, but I know what it will take and right now, it isn't possible.

Uska
10-17-2012, 12:57 AM
(Regarding NWN)



You might be surprised.

The Foundry in Star Trek Online is doing very well - even with its currently limited number of player tools. There are a huge number of player made missions that the Devs themselves have admited are better than what they've done.

I hope that DDO will do something similar in order to compete with NWN (as I have a great fondness for DDO (see 'Founder' title :p) and somewhat dislike Cryptic's combat system). My suggetion for such is listed in the third line of my sig below. :)


STO totaly bored me and I didnt last even a week there my friend tried the foundry stuff and wasnt to impressed he quit a long time ago as well.

Tshober
10-19-2012, 04:20 PM
TE = Turbine Employee

TE#1: Hey, the players want to create adventures.

TE#2: It won't work.

TE#1: No , not like NWN, they want to provide the framework and idea, then have us build it.

TE#2: We already have thousands of ideas and more than enough to do. What we need is more time.

TE#1: What if the forum goes crazy over a proposed adventure though?

TE#2: I will believe it when I see it... until then lets focus on whats already on our plate.

Cardoor: The above scenario, though fictional, reminds me a little of reality.


Yeah, that is pretty much how I think it would go.

Several games have implemented player-designed missions that did not go through the devs first. CoV/CoH did this. I hated it because too many players tried to abuse it to level up and it became much harder to find groups for Task Forces because everyone was too busy farming player-made exploits...err...missions to play the actual interesting and challenging game content. To be fair, the players did create many very interesting missions that in no way were exploits, but most people did not play those and instead skipped right to the ones that promised to level you up the fastest and easiest.

If the devs are going to do the actual implementing, then I do not object. But if they will not then I would object strongly.

Syllph
10-25-2012, 07:26 AM
Could I get just one reply from a dev?