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Tylerxx
10-03-2012, 12:05 AM
Hello DDO people,

I'm a new comer to this game and I gotta say, Fully enjoying it. I have alot of exp in MMO's and played a bit of D&D pnp a long time ago. I remember most of the rules/features though.
I started as f2p but after 2-3 days I went p2p. I also picked up the veteran package. It's kinda making it hard for me to stick to one character cause I have so many options to test out different multi-class options. From what I've learned over the first few days of doing this is that my favorite style of play would have to be monk/cleric.
I made a 5Cleric/2Monk.
I was originally planning on doing something like 12cleric/8monk because I read somewhere that the spells a cleric gets at lvl 12 are mandatory for any cleric. As I read more on the forums, it seemed most players with this multi-class combo were going 18cleric/2monk. For the same reason they went 12cleric.
I really enjoy being the guy responsible for the heals (mostly cause I dislike depending on others). But I'd like to kick @$$ as a DPS too. Of course, I know I won't compare to some of the tanks out there, but I'd like to be tough enough to hold my own in melee.
The whole reason I was wanting to get more levels as a monk was to increase the amount of damage I do with handwraps. But after a few parties with lvl 7-9 monks -and asking how much dmg they did, etc.- I realized that they weren't doing much more damage then me.

Do monks gain more attacks per second the higher their level is? I seem to punch/kick pretty darn fast as it is now.

Would I eventually switch out my handwraps for a mace/shield and heavy armor?

Would I still swing fast if I do carry the mace?

If I do decide to go 12/8 (or near it), would I need to drop cha and not focus on turning undead? (I really enjoy turning undead) lulz.

Is the +1saves/AC as a halfling better then the +1 feat as a human?

Are humans the only race that can increase all of their ability points through enhancements (action points)?


I have more questions I just can't remember them now. I'll leave it as is and post new questions as I come across them.

Tylerxx
10-03-2012, 12:13 AM
would it be unwise to splash 2 levels of rogue and spend all the skill points on lockpicking or maybe search/disable

12cleric/6monk/2rogue?

Habreno
10-03-2012, 12:55 AM
When doing a multiclass, as it's called, its best to plan such a multiclass out to level 20 before it's actually created.


I'm not good for advice on the specifics, but that's my general advice.

Ryiah
10-03-2012, 01:11 AM
I was originally planning on doing something like 12cleric/8monk because I read somewhere that the spells a cleric gets at lvl 12 are mandatory for any cleric.

You actually only need level 11 for the spells but there isn't much of a reason not to take 12 as you can get the healing aura. However while you get Heal with that level layout you won't get Mass Heal. You don't necessarily need to have it but it makes healing a lot more efficient in raids.

Tylerxx
10-03-2012, 01:18 AM
When doing a multiclass, as it's called, its best to plan such a multiclass out to level 20 before it's actually created.

+1... Hence the post.

Jaid314
10-03-2012, 01:18 AM
if you want to be a cleric, you'll want at least 17 levels of it. either 17/3 or 18/2 are good cut-off points.

if you just want to be a monk that can do a little healing on the side, go ahead and try the 12/8.

i don't expect either version to be a stellar DPS build, but either of them will at least do some damage.

but really, if you're a level 20 character with 12/8, you probably shouldn't consider yourself a cleric or healer. not because you'll be absolutely terrible at it or anything, simply because people you don't output nearly as much as a full cleric with mass heal can offer, especially in certain raids and such.

i would not consider such a build a DPS build, in any case; i would consider it more of a survival build.

Tylerxx
10-03-2012, 01:22 AM
i would not consider such a build a DPS build, in any case; i would consider it more of a survival build.

That's enough confirmation for me :D
Unless of course someone strongly disagrees.

stoerm
10-03-2012, 02:57 AM
I cannot find a link to it, but a friend used a build from these forums, halfing 17 cleric 2 monk 1 rogue. It is a great survivalist build, awesome for solo.

17 Cleric is pretty much the minimum for anyone who wants to take the divine slot in a party, especially in a raid. You might have issues with a cleric icon but only 12 levels, something you'll have to be careful about and communicate about your build.

Forget about any weapons for melee. A monk gets its DPS from the fast attack rate with fists, so handwraps are the order of the day. The numbers are smaller than barbarians' but you have a lot more of them, especially in wind stance. Staffs/kamas can be situationally useful for casting buffs or DR breaking purposes. It's a lot easier to find cold iron kamas than cold iron wraps, for example. As you gain levels both the attack speed and the damage dice get increased. There are many other benefits from higher monk levels, so you need to consider that carefully when planning to take 12 cleric levels. Honestly, if you aren't planning to be a group healer, you might be better of going pure monk. Monks are so resilient they often skip shrines and light monks can regain hitpoints with healing ki.

Monk builds do not wear armor, only robes and outfits. You want to stay centered. You get your AC from dexterity, wisdom, monk levels and AC items such as outfits and bracers.

I'd personally go human and take at least 2 ranks of human improved recovery (? - healing amp) enhancements. That will help boost the benefit you get from your aura. Try to find a non-weapon source of Devotion (http://ddowiki.com/page/Devotion). If not, find a devotion stick and hold it while casting heals, radiant burst or the aura.

I have a clonk (cleric/monk) at 16/2 at the moment, going to be 18/2. When soloing she's virtually unkillable. Soloing is not as fast as running with a barbarian or sorc, but at least I'm not dependent on hires or LFMs. Her spell point pool is a bit shallow for raid healing, but due to evasion and decent reflexes I can stand behind a raid boss and use aura+bursts to good effect without getting hit - at least on normal.

Lastly, a general point for all new players. Consider your first character(s) a learning experience. As you learn more about the game you'll find you have made mistakes with your build. Don't despair. Rerolling is not a problem, it's common to reroll several times. At the same time, limping to level 20 with a less than perfect build is not shameful. You can always TR at level 20 and you'll have more build points for your next life - very useful for stat point starved classes like monks. If you have the cash, you might also want to spend the Turbine Points for a lesser reincarnation around the early teens when any shortcomings start becoming more apparent.

gerardIII
10-03-2012, 04:00 AM
That's enough confirmation for me :D
Unless of course someone strongly disagrees.

When I compare my lvl 20 monk and my lvl 25 barb, I see that the barb does at least 4 times more damage.

When I compare my lvl 20 monk to my lvl 18/2 cleric monk, I see that the monk does at least twice more damage.

Your build will be easy to play when soloing normal quests or healing a small group of people, but it's not a DPS build or a healer. I think it's better to have at least 1 high lvl character that can be very useful in raids/epic quests, then you can start making experiments/solo builds/flavour builds.
Planning your multiclass as you level up is not a good idea.

Jsbeer
10-06-2012, 08:37 AM
When I compare my lvl 20 monk and my lvl 25 barb, I see that the barb does at least 4 times more damage.



Did you mean to compare a level 20 to a level 25 toon as epic destinies and items do make more than a slight difference........

DynaTheCat
10-06-2012, 03:48 PM
When you're doing end game raids/epics (motu elites, CITW, higher level epic elites) and you're a 12 clr/6mnk/2rogue...... Most parties will not take you.

Most groups will still accept a 18 cler/2monk because it's understandable to get the evasion...

LordMond63
10-06-2012, 03:52 PM
I have a Clonk, currently 12 CLR/3 MNK, with an eye towards adding a FTR level or two and ending up CLR/MNK/FTR 12/6/2. It's just an experiment on my part, as I have a pure Cleric and pure Monk and wanted something just a bit different.

I find that there is no way that he can solo heal some of the more difficult quests at level. My spell point pool is just too small and I lack the higher mass curative spells that you really need to be an efficient main healer. Now, that said, I can help take some of the pressure off a main healer by using my healing aura and bursts, and I can do so while in melee range, thus adding some fairly substantial dps to the group's output. I can also take care of some of the buffs that the main healer would normally do, thus saving some of his sp pool for other uses. For those reasons, there seems to be a very nice synergy between a frontline Clonk and a behind-the-lines healer-type. I have to admit that I like the dual roles quite a bit.

Oliphant
10-07-2012, 10:02 PM
I've scene people exploit the clonk options with extremely deadly results

AbyssalMage
10-08-2012, 12:00 AM
I find that there is no way that he can solo heal some of the more difficult quests at level. My spell point pool is just too small and I lack the higher mass curative spells that you really need to be an efficient main healer.

All I have to say is....

Scrolls and Wands!
In full groups I have learned that I need to use scrolls and wands if I want my SP's to make it to the next shrine. Especially when your in a PUG and they think they are invincible now that a cleric (and not a hireling) is in the party.

wax_on_wax_off
10-08-2012, 12:09 AM
I'd avoid the heavy multiclasses until you get a hang of the game and experience end game content. I'd even go so far as to say to avoid multiclassing at all until you've leveled a character to 20 successfully.

Armour has just got a serious boost in usefulness in high levels as the PRR (physical resistance rating) from heavy armour (that a cleric can wear) will do as much, if not more, for your defenses as a monk splash would do.

Pure monks on the other hand are about the best melee builds in a majority of end game content at the moment as they are very versatile and survivable.

Perhaps a pure light monk would suit you? With healing amp from human or half-elf you'll have no issues healing yourself with UMD and Fists of Light and can even contribute party healing. In epic levels access to Epic Destinies (EDs) will let you fill a variety of roles including DPS, support and even healing (not difficult quests but my archer with less healing than a light monk healed an Epic Hard Devil Assault - ehDA - with little difficulty with destiny+twists).

PadrePio
10-08-2012, 01:29 AM
If you want to solo with it, then consider Half-elf race to get paladin dilettante and raise your saves.

If you want to play a caster with evasion (and more) then either 17cleric/2monk/1wizard, 17cleric/3(light)monk and 18cleric/2monk are viable options.
Rest has been pretty much said already :P

Mastikator
10-08-2012, 04:06 AM
would it be unwise to splash 2 levels of rogue and spend all the skill points on lockpicking or maybe search/disable

12cleric/6monk/2rogue?
Would be very wise if you can pull it off, but I think you may be spreading yourself too thin with a 28pt build, you probably need 36pt and several +2 tomes to be competent in all three areas (but when you are, you're basically a one-man army).
You'd need at least 3 skill points per level to pull it off, 2 in Disable (for 1 cross class) and 1 in Search (0.5 cross class), use Find Traps to offset the low Search, meaning at least 12 int, or 10 int and human. But then you're foregoing Lockpicking and UMD. But you can live without those, it's mostly extra chests and optional doors.

Battlehawke
10-08-2012, 08:20 AM
In the old days three levels of monk would give you a lot of self healing. It was nerfed! Too deep of a cleric splash and you will it very difficult to get into end game raids. Keep those things in mind. There is really no reason to go more than two levels of monk on a clonk anymore. In saying that there are two significant reasons for a cleric to take monk: Evasion (while reflex save will not be uber, but is ok) and Stuuning Fist (The DC is total level based, not total monk, and Wis based, so you can have one of the highest DC's in the game)(personally, this is the funnest part of my clonk).

If you are looking for GREAT solo build, then a 17 Clr/2 Rog/1 Mnk seems to work greatly..

If you are just looking for some self healing then a light Monk or Paladin, or a combination of the two is probably what you want. 14/6 pally/monk us unkillable. 12/6/2 Monk/pally/Ftr is very fun (but clickie crazy) and any of those on a Helf with Healing Amp and Clr Dilly can be more than enough healing to make you feel confident about solo'ing some EE stuff with the right gear!

B

Garseya
10-08-2012, 08:26 AM
I've played a few "clonk" and other various multiclass clerics. The build your talking about would play fine in solo normal content. In the more extreme end game content and raids, you would have difficulty contributing as much DPS or healing as another toon that stayed pure. I've seen the most effective results going with 18cleric/2monk or 17cleric/3monk (for light fists and the finishers) or 17 cleric/2monk/1wiz (for extra metamagic). 18cleric/2rogue will let you really boost UMD granting you acess to most arcane scrolls and other restricted items. Take monk or rogue levels at 1/8/20. Human would probably be the best class for the bonus feat. Halfings (tho cute) in this particular build wouldn't benefit from the bonuses, you won't have enough ac to matter anyways, and your attack (tho equal to a fighter thanks to divine power) will still be 12-20 points + lower than a melee toon of the same level due to your need to put level up points into wisdom rather than stregnth.

With a multiclass toon using ranger/monk/rogue/figther levels, your specialty is still a dps and melee focused roon. Monk and cleric split fighter/divine, so at end game you lack the melee levels to provide good dps, and you lack the spell point pool and metamagics to be an effective raid or party healer. Even a 17 or 18 level splash cleric is very reliant on scrolls to make up for the lost spell point pool.

The beauty of the clonk is the stunning fists dc's you can have with relatively few monk levels. Combined with other CC spells like soundburst and orders wrath. You can help control large groups of mobs to minimize the damage you take while aura healing yourself or other melees in the party. With too many monk levels, you wont have enough metamagic feats like empower healing or quicken to allow you to stick it out with the melees in the long boss beatdows. Heal scrolls and cure serious wands can't keep pace with the damage dealt in end game busts. IF you hit an lfm with a 12/cleric/8 monk and a pure favored soul or cleric hits it at the same time 99.794% of the time you will not get in the group.

I've see well geared and well built raid groups go from just fine to several dead and most low health when you toss in a mean boss. low rolls, and a lil lag. Some raids, the healers are just spamming quicked and empowered mass heal/mass cure mod/massprotect/mass heal. I've also stood around twiddling my thumbs on a favored soul with 3,500 spell points scroll healing tanks just to see if i could scoll heal a raid. Alot of it depends on what kind of groups and content you're planning to run.


Your questions
Do monks gain more attacks per second the higher their level is? I seem to punch/kick pretty darn fast as it is now.
I don't know all the facts behind how this is calculated. I don't think you would notice much of a difference between 2 or 3 levels of monk and 8. Your attack speed can be boosted by haste pots and items that boost attack speed.
Would I eventually switch out my handwraps for a mace/shield and heavy armor?
It really would negate even taking the monk levels in the first place. You loose evasion and the ability to generate ki.
Would I still swing fast if I do carry the mace?
no
If I do decide to go 12/8 (or near it), would I need to drop cha and not focus on turning undead? (I really enjoy turning undead) lulz.
Yes, your gonna need stat points for wisdom/con and (*str or dex*) Undead become increasingly more difficult to turn as the game progresses.
Is the +1saves/AC as a halfling better then the +1 feat as a human?
see above
Are humans the only race that can increase all of their ability points through enhancements (action points)?
key word being all, yes.

SirValentine
10-08-2012, 08:37 AM
if you just want to be a monk that can do a little healing on the side, go ahead and try the 12/8.


I suggest going 13/7 instead of 12/8. The healing aura on a Cleric 13 is a full 25% stronger than on a Cleric 12, plus you get some 7th level spells.

LordMond63
10-09-2012, 05:12 PM
All I have to say is....

Scrolls and Wands!
In full groups I have learned that I need to use scrolls and wands if I want my SP's to make it to the next shrine. Especially when your in a PUG and they think they are invincible now that a cleric (and not a hireling) is in the party.

Good suggestions both.

Honestly, I'm pretty good about bringing wands. Scrolls.....eh, not so much. I find myself too often trying to do on my Clonk what I do on my Cleric and get frustrated that I can't pull it off. You do have to be extra wise with your sp pool, bursts/aura and such when multiclassing.

TheHolyDarkness
10-09-2012, 05:28 PM
17 Cleric/3 Monk/Epic 5/Grandmaster 5

Halfling. 32 point

12 str
14 dex
14 con
8 int
18 wis (+6 from level ups)
8 cha
(+3 Tome all stats)

All enhancements in halfling guile, cleric healing, and radiant servant prereqs. Else optional.

Feats: Maximize Spell, Empower Healing, Quicken, TWF, iTWF, gTWF, Power Attack, Stunning Fist, Toughness, Heighten Spell, IP: Bludgeon

(Alt) Feats: Maximize Spell, Empower Healing, Quicken, TWF, iTWF, gTWF, Power Attack, Stunning Fist, Prof: Longsword, Weapon Focus: Slashing, Whirling Steel Strike.


As for endgame gear, check out my blog posts (Operation Divine Zenblade) (http://my.ddo.com/theholydarkness/) regarding my vicious halfling clonk. I write down all that specific information, because out of my 7 characters, he's currently my most badass, hitting for 60-80ish damage (+19 SA) while still managing 2k SP and frequent heal crits in the 1.5kish range. Aligning the Heavens helps with the SP longevity considerably. Fully self buffed with Walk of the Sun, I'm rocking somewhere around a +44 reflex save. Stunning Fist DC is twistable up the point of a 57 DC.

Your goal is to turn into me (or better). I'm happy to teach further via PM.

Hope the research helps.

~TheHolyDarkness Out~

TheHolyDarkness
10-09-2012, 06:25 PM
As to your questions:
Do monks gain more attacks per second the higher their level is? I seem to punch/kick pretty darn fast as it is now.
No. Simply looking at it by animation is an illusion. To understand how many attacks you are getting, you need to understand how the Two Weapon Fighting feats work. Just because it looks like you are punching with both hands doesn't necessarily mean that you are. By default, you are only striking out 20% with your off-hand. Getting the full TWF ensures that, 80% of the time, you are truly striking out with your off-hand.

You also need to understand something about Doublestrike. As a Grandmaster clonk, with the right enhancements, you can doublestrike 8.5% of the time in Lesser Wind Stance without extra equipment. Meaning that 8.5% of the time, the game will have you do an additional mainhand attack. Hard to notice but its there.

Your Lesser Wind Stance will also grant you a 7.5% enhancement to attack speed. This is overridden whenever you are buffed by haste however, which gives anyone under its influence a 15% enhancement to attack speed. So to have it on or not will be up to discretion once you're advanced enough.

At any rate, its kinda subtle and hard to notice when you are attacking more and/or faster. But what you're noticing is not based on your character level* so much as its about your Feats and (eventual) Destiny. Understand?

*(There's also the issue with Base Attack Bonus very slightly enhancing your attack speed, but lets just say that's your character un-noobing itself from a nobody who can barely fight into a hero who can. I won't go into it here since its something that happens automatically and has nothing to do with your decisions)

Would I eventually switch out my handwraps for a mace/shield and heavy armor?
Hell no. Longswords on the other hand...well, that can be viable given the current endgame. Its what I did recently, and why I gave you two different feat suggestions. When you are not stunning trash with your fists, dual-wielding endgame-caliber longswords can be a considerable boon to your DPS.

Forget armor. You don't want armor. Armor makes you itchy. Not to mention that you can't stun things while wearing it. Stunning Fist is your primary weapon.


Would I still swing fast if I do carry the mace?
Forget maces. Your primary weapon is your (stunning) fist. Optionally, your secondary weapons are (certain (http://ddowiki.com/page/Oathblade) endgame (http://ddowiki.com/page/Tinah,_Sword_of_the_Sea)) longswords. Quarterstaffs (which don't benefit from TWF) and Kamas (there are no endgame kamas that keep up with handwraps) are complete junk.

If I do decide to go 12/8 (or near it), would I need to drop cha and not focus on turning undead? (I really enjoy turning undead) lulz.
Beyond simply wearing a charisma item and maybe some extra turn enhancements, forget about Turn Undead. Its there primarily to fuel your Radiant Servant abilities, which regenerates every two minutes. At epic level, a simple twist of the "Endless Turns" ability from the Unyielding Sentinel destiny is all else you'll ever need. You're pretty much set. At roll up, its safe to dump cha.

Is the +1saves/AC as a halfling better then the +1 feat as a human?
Arguable, no doubt. But in my case it is. Between Halfling Luck/Cunning/Guile, the bonuses to saves, hit and (sneak attack) damage far outstrip anything I could get as a human. To think about it, maybe I'd get about, 20-40ish HP out of that extra feat in exchange for all that damage output if I remade myself as a human. That about it.

Are humans the only race that can increase all of their ability points through enhancements (action points)?
They can enhance any attribute by 1. Other races can enhance their main attribute by 2.

~TheHolyDarkness Out~