PDA

View Full Version : Wand of Wonder, Deck of Many Things



Worldcrafter
10-01-2012, 03:50 AM
Come on. With Shiradi Champion's Double Rainbow and its tons of chaotic fun and occasional misfire, that just lays the groundwork for these things. The Deck could be a clicky, maybe 3 uses or something like, no recharges? Wand, obvious.

BlueSilence
10-01-2012, 07:24 AM
The Deck of Many Things is perhaps my favorite item from D&D but most of its effects would conflict with current mechanichs. Some even could be crippling.

For example, the Talons card effect: "All magic items you possess disappear permanently". Buh-bye Torc! Buh-bye Epic Antique Greataxe!

Maybe it could have some effects like Potion of Wonder or some other fitting effects but then it would lose its original design and personally I would feel dissapointed.

Still, a nice idea to think about...

Charononus
10-01-2012, 07:39 AM
The Deck of Many Things is perhaps my favorite item from D&D but most of its effects would conflict with current mechanichs. Some even could be crippling.

For example, the Talons card effect: "All magic items you possess disappear permanently". Buh-bye Torc! Buh-bye Epic Antique Greataxe!

Maybe it could have some effects like Potion of Wonder or some other fitting effects but then it would lose its original design and personally I would feel dissapointed.

Still, a nice idea to think about...

I think that would be when I leave ddo. "my loot it's all gone"

CaptainSpacePony
10-01-2012, 09:18 AM
Well caution should be used by devs so as not to alienate the player base, I think this is a great idea.

varusso
10-01-2012, 09:59 AM
The multiple airship wipes were actually an experimental version of a Deck of Many Things that accidentally made it onto the live servers. The many and varied bugs in the xpack were the result of a Kender who was "curious" about a new wand he had found.

Did I mention Kender was a new playable race? His last wave of the wand permanently morphed all Kender into Helves, then sent them back in time to a previous update. The new playable race Dragonborn suffered a similar fate as Horcs.

True stories.

donfilibuster
10-01-2012, 10:30 AM
The rod of wonder would be fun, the kind of fun Roderick was having with his wand of summons.
It ought to have that 1% of permanently turning blue, green or purple :P

Now the deck is more serious business, but still a minor artifact, sort of like the tome of xp in ddo.
About half of the cards spell permanent doom for the character. (losing BtC items is no different than permadeath)
In comparison to the drawbacks, the good cards aren't that good. Perhaps only the (permanent) hireling is unique enough.

Ideas can be that if you die you start at lv 1 as if TR'ed.
Lost items are "irrevocably gone" but one may get new ones via the deck's wish.
(because there's no unique items in ddo)

Ytteri
10-01-2012, 10:34 AM
I think that would be when I leave ddo. "my loot it's all gone"

I think it could work if they made all the deck effects last only until shrining. Or a temporary effect not removed by shrining like ship buffs. The "all my loot is gone" could be a disjunction effect that lasts an hour.

They'd need to have exhaustive mournlands and lammania testing though.

varusso
10-01-2012, 12:07 PM
I think it could work if they made all the deck effects last only until shrining. Or a temporary effect not removed by shrining like ship buffs. The "all my loot is gone" could be a disjunction effect that lasts an hour.

They'd need to have exhaustive mournlands and lammania testing though.
The problem with taking away/disabling a toon's gear is that -- unless it reverts upon leaving a quest -- it renders many toons unplayable in at-level content. This means the player won't play that toon until their gear is returned to them in working order.

Trust me, anything that essentially forces a player to stop playing their toon (and likely log off) is a bad thing.

The only way such a penalty would really be tolerable would be if it were an extremely low-duration effect. Which of course mans that any bonuses would need to be equally low-duration. You would end up with the flavor of the DoMT and the WoW, but not the actual feel.

Besides, we already have Potions of Wonder.

der_kluge
10-01-2012, 01:39 PM
This reminds me of the time I tried using a Wish in Balder's Gate II to help me complete a really difficult dungeon. I told the djinni I wanted an army to help me defeat me enemies, and he summoned forth a bunch of bunny rabbits to assist. Hilarious.

From a DDO perspective, a lot of the groundwork is already there. Make it a 10 charge/recharge wand that operates much like Roderic's Wand. And give it the same random effects that a Choas orb has, plus maybe a few others.

Things the the chaos orb has been known to do:
generate tasy ham in your inventory
Cause you to /clap
cast slay living
cast Heal
cast Jump
cast Tenser's Transformation
cast Cometfall

you could add many more things to that list for a wand. They'd need to include Druid's Entangle, since that's a classic wand function. And summoning a lot of butterflies - which is also classic wand.

But yes - I'd love to see the wand added. It's a great item.

der_kluge
10-01-2012, 01:50 PM
The only way the deck could really work is if it were a one-time thing as part of a GM event. It doesn't really work as a random drop item from a quest.




Balance - Changes the character to a radically different alignment.
Doesn't really work in DDO, because you'd end up with non-LG paladins, and non-neutral druids. And then what? Plus, there aren't evil alignments in DDO.
Comet - If character single-handedly prevails in the next hostile encounter, the character attains the next experience level.
This one could work, but might difficult to code.
Donjon - Character is imprisoned and loses all gear and spells are stripped from the victim in any case.
whee! good times.
Euryale - Causes a permanent penalty on all saving throws.
Seems doable. Hopefully it doesn't persist through TR!
Fates - Changes reality to allow the character to avoid even an instantaneous occurrence if so desired.
This is a DM fiat card. It allows the player to avoid a situation. You couldn't code that in DDO.
Flames - Causes an enmity between the character and an outsider.
Maybe? Could cause some random mobs to appear in random quests looking for said person? Could be fun, but the quests are static for this to work as is.
Fool - Character loses experience points and is forced to draw another card from the deck.
Yes, this one could work. But there's no mechanic to remove XP in the game currently.
Gem - The character gains significant wealth.
Very easy to do.
Idiot - The character's Intelligence score is permanently lowered.
Feasible. Again, hopefully it doesn't persist through TR.
Jester - The character can gain experience points or two more draws from the deck.
Doable.
Key - A major magic weapon appears out of nowhere in the character's hand.
Doable.
Knight - A fighter appears from out of nowhere and serves the character loyally until death.
Well, the closeset DDO could do here would be to grant gold-seal contracts.
Moon - The character gains a number of magical wishes which come true.
Not feasible
Rogue - This card causes one of the character’s NPC friends to turn against him.
Not feasible.
Ruin - The character immediately loses all of his wealth and non-magical possessions.
A good way to make a paying customer leave the game!
Skull - The character must defeat a powerful undead creature alone.
Could be doable. You could create a one-room instance and force the player to fight Death.
Star - One of the character's ability scores increases.
Doable.
Sun - The character gains a beneficial magic item.
Easy.
Talons - Every magic item the character owns or possesses disappears permanently.
Also a good way to remove a paying customer from the game.
Throne - The character becomes more charismatic and gains a small castle.
Gaining charisma is easy. Giving someone a castle is problematic.
Vizier - The character gains an answer to solve any single problem or answer fully any question upon request.
Not feasible.
The Void - This card sends a character's soul to some other desolate location, leaving his body in a catatonic state, requiring the adventuring party to find a way to rescue the soul.
Not feasible.


my comments in red

So, looks like most of the cards just simply wouldn't work very well in DDO.

EbbOnFire
10-01-2012, 03:38 PM
I don't think you'd want the exact effects, but I could imagine a quest centered around a Deck of Many Things -ish item. Something like "Finding the Path", where you start out in a mundane circumstance -- say a gypsy tent at a carnival. In order to proceed, every character needs to take a draw from the Deck. Depending on what card you draw, you get hit with a random effect that lasts until the end of the quest. You also get teleported to the real quest.

Now you have to work your way through the quest using your new temporary ability, or working around your new temporary handicap. Perhaps to be fair you automatically get one of each. Ideally it would force you to play in a way a little bit different than you're used to, and would give the quest some fun replay value that isn't tied to loot or XP. Maybe your strength is doubled but your int is halved. Maybe you get a fire giant summons who follows you around, but he's on aggressive auto-attack. Maybe you lose the ability to wear armor, but you get a guard effect that hits for 1d100 sonic damage if anyone hits you in melee. Or an effect that causes piles of 5 platinum pieces to appear in your footsteps wherever you walk.

More randomness is good, as long as it doesn't permanently affect your character. If you had a source of permanent bonuses to your character than people would quickly figure out ways to farm out the good ones, and then it becomes just another thing everybody has to do to max out their toon. Within the scope of a semi-serious "Acute Delirium"-type quest, though, go ahead and pile on the chaos.

Worldcrafter
10-01-2012, 06:26 PM
I wouldn't imagine that the Deck of Many Things or Wand of Wonder would be direct translations from PnP to DDO, and I definitely don't think there should be any permanent effects aside from things that generate items or money.

Although the Deck is a minor artifact, I could see it as either one of those "rare drops from chests high quests," like tomes, portable holes, the few named magical items that have no specific chest, etc, or as a quest reward option for a story chain - possibly involving involving a stronger/more diverse deck and other random things, as EbbOnFire suggested for a quest idea. My suggestion that the Deck is a non-recharging trinket clicky with X amounts of uses that can only be used in-quest. I suggested 3 as a conservative first offer, but I could see more, or even just 1 use, pending on how players felt.

There are two ways to go with attempting to bring in the Deck of Many Things - either it follows the standard list of abilities, with some augmentation, or the DDO staff makes up completely random things that fit Eberron. Either way, I think it could be a blast. For those wanting a more traditional Deck, here are my thoughts on how the powers could be reasonably translated:

Balance
Rather then switch alignment, you get blasted by Word of Balance.

Comet
Instead of defeating the next encounter and getting auto-level, you are granted the bonus of a Superior Experience Elixir (+30% exp gain for 6 hours).

Donjon
Instead of being trapped in a random place and losing all your items, you auto-fail a special Hold Person with a minute-long timer, and all your gear is unequipped; for any item there isn't enough space for, they go into that overflow subspace until you get the room.

Euryale
Hour long penalty to saves, persistent between rests and exit, but not death.

Fates
Hour long bonus, gives a +4 Artifact Bonus to saves, and you cannot fail a save on a natural 1. Persists between rests and exit, but not death.

Flames
Hate Magnet! Like the power-up in the challenges, you give a periodic pulse of high intimidate. Persists for 2 minutes? 5 minutes?

Fool
Your hair is dyed a random color.

Gem
Easy enough, either creates a "gem chest" that generates random gems (so it takes up only 1 inventory slot until you pop it), or it gives you random gems.

Idiot
10 minute long Touch of Idiocy.

Jester
You receive 3 unbound Major Experience Elixirs.

Key
Same thing as Gem, either gives you a random chest like those dropped in Cannith Challenges, or it gives you a single item of a set range. I think the chest would be a better option.

Knight
Either a hireling contract (gold seal or otherwise), or it gives you a special summon unique to the Deck with an extended duration - either an hour timer, or none, and just gets removed when it dies/end of quest.

Moon
Gives you a "Crest of the Twelve Moons." in your inventory. Clicking on it summons "The Master of the Deck." Think along the lines of the anniversary cakes and the Djinn. You can turn in the crest to get a +3 tome of your choice, stacks of super HP or super SP potions, or a few other novelties.

Rogue
Hour long penalty that persists through rest and exit, but not death. You are treated as having -6 levels for getting rewards from NPCs and chests.

Ruin
All your non-consumable items suffer "death" damage, the kind that won't leave permanent damage. Alternately, one (or more, pending on the stack) of your consumables gets broken, as per the random chance in combat.

Skull
Spawns one (or more?) wraiths, as if you had died while affected by a Wraith's Lingering Touch.

Star
You receive a "Vial of Tremendous Strength," a "Vial of Tremendous Dexterity," and one for Con, Int, Wis and Cha, for a total of 6 vials in all. Drinking a vial gives an hour long buff that grants a +6 Artifact bonus to the appropriate stat, persists through Rest and Exit, but not death. Any unused vials drop when you leave the dungeon. They are not bound, and can be passed to other party members.

Sun
Lower level version of Key, possibly offering a wider array of items.

Talons
All your worn equipment is broken to 0; this is "death" damage, and does not cause permanent damage when repaired.

Throne
Summons Castle, a special Earth Elemental. Hour long summon, Castle generates an Aura of Protection, granting an Artifact bonus to AC, Dodge, and PRR to anyone nearby. Castle can also cast Stoneskin on others. In addition, the user also receives an hour long buff, granting a +6 Artifact Bonus to Cha, which persists through rest and exit, but not death.

Vizier
Hour long buff, granting a +6 Artifact bonus to Int, Wis, and Cha. Persists through rest and exit, but not death.

The Void
Insta-kill on the user, bypass Deathward/Deathblock.

donfilibuster
10-01-2012, 08:37 PM
my comments in red

So, looks like most of the cards just simply wouldn't work very well in DDO.
Indeed won't work word by word, it needs some creativity.

The mere work of balancing begs some creativity, it needs not be just tweak up and down the effects.
One has to draw the line somewhere, clearly losing gear and permadeath is unnaceptable so gotta think of comparable alternatives.

I went in my earlier post that gear can be recovered in flavor by getting duplicates.
(no item in ddo is so rare that id needs be unique, not even litany, at least not the ones you can get)

That'd be more likely as part of the quest storyline, the toon's gear would be unnafected in the database.
e.g. a genie to guard the deck has been appointed by a deity of neutrality, seeking to mantain balance.

I'm not inventing this bit :) has precedent in d&d, genies and marids are often set to guard ancient stuff and artifacts.
Naturally won't gain access without earning the genie's wish, so need to complete the quest first.

The death of the toon can be played in some way.
Maybe you can have a chance to draw when you are ready to TR, since there wou will die anyways.
It effectively removes the penalty but does so as part of something meaningful.
As it is now when you TR you just retire the characters, it'd be fair enough to earn such a gift at the end of your toon's career.

There's plenty of potential and ideas, those above are just two.
While having it as a prize for your toon is nice, it could also be limited to the quest context.
e.g. on a visit to the plane of nightmares, so it is all erased when you wake.
Maybe that can be the first quest on a chain, and you earn the real thing at the end.

Rian
10-02-2012, 12:20 AM
The only way the deck could really work is if it were a one-time thing as part of a GM event. It doesn't really work as a random drop item from a quest.



my comments in red

So, looks like most of the cards just simply wouldn't work very well in DDO.

For the one regarding loss of XP, Turbine used to have an XP debt system many years ago.
So it is feasible.

fco-karatekid
10-02-2012, 12:46 AM
I think it could work if they made all the deck effects last only until shrining. Or a temporary effect not removed by shrining like ship buffs. The "all my loot is gone" could be a disjunction effect that lasts an hour.

They'd need to have exhaustive mournlands and lammania testing though.

Or it just moves it to a TR-cache-like entity - can get stuff back when you hit the bank?

danzig138
10-06-2012, 01:01 PM
/signed

Those are just a couple of the many, many magic items I'd like to see added to the game.

Hendrik
10-06-2012, 01:11 PM
+1 Worldcrafter, some very good idea's there!

Well done.

Diyon
10-06-2012, 02:11 PM
This gets me thinking of all the potential for Wild Mage PrE, and then it hit me:

Potions of Wonder- For the most part, ignored and mostly useless. Give the Wild Mage something for using them! Honestly, I'd be severely disappointed if there wasn't. When Wild Mage comes out, I want to see them carrying around a stack of potions of wonder like others carry around stacks of SP potions.

donfilibuster
10-06-2012, 10:48 PM
The rod of wonder would be nice, a whole Wild Mage PrE will have to stand in line for its turn tho, there's other things like the illusionist and polymorphing that are on the list of big caster stuff missing from ddo.
(not to say other races, classes, and existing class love that are on various wishlists)
Technically Wild Mage would not be hard to accomplish, altough morphing seems a possibility now that wild shape exists.

Diyon
10-06-2012, 11:51 PM
The rod of wonder would be nice, a whole Wild Mage PrE will have to stand in line for its turn tho, there's other things like the illusionist and polymorphing that are on the list of big caster stuff missing from ddo.
(not to say other races, classes, and existing class love that are on various wishlists)
Technically Wild Mage would not be hard to accomplish, altough morphing seems a possibility now that wild shape exists.

Well, actually, its already likely its already ahead in line. They are finishing off PrE enhancements supposedly next year, and that's one on the list.