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Syllph
09-16-2012, 02:05 PM
sorry if this has been suggested before:

the idea would be to make summons more effective if one chose to use them. You could effectively create a real summoner.

I wish the feat Augment Summon didn't just increase the summon, summoned. I wish it would pull from the next tier up. Conjuration focus would also augment this list.

For example: Normal caster casts Summon Monster 7. An augmented caster would have the choice level 7, 8, or 9 summons. Meaning he could use monster summon 9 much earlier.

Now if that same caster took Augment summoning and cast level 9 spells he could choose from level 9, 10, 11. These would be new monsters created for the summoner.

If he then took Grand summoner (Magister line) and his Aug. summons, he could pull from caster level 9-14.

If he took Aug. summoning, Grand summoner, and had 3 druid past lives he could pull from caster level 9-17.

Finally if he took three cleric past lives and had +3 focus to conjuration item and epic spell focus conjuration (+9 to caster level check) he could pull from an amazing caster level 9 - 26.

New summons could be anything from Beholders to Beboliths.

In short Augment summon would allow you to pull 3 levels higher in the monster check (a monster summon one could access MS 1-3)

Magister Grand Summon would stack giving another +3 to caster tier check. (a monster summon one could access MS 1-4)

Each Druid past life would give +1 level. (a monster summon one could access MS 1-2. With 3 past lives MS 1-4)

Each focus in conjuration (not caster stat bonus only feats and cleric past lives and items with conjuration DC) would give another +1 to tier check. (a monster summon one could access MS 1-2, or +1 level for each focus max I believe is +3 epic focus, +3 cleric PL, +3 item or +9. MS 1-10)

Havok.cry
09-16-2012, 02:45 PM
What they need to do is replace the current, mostly useless summon spells with the pnp versions. Short duration, no limit to number out. The summons go ape**** crazy on the enemy because they know anything that happens to them is temporary. Duration would be 3 seconds per caster level. Then we could actually play a summoner.

donfilibuster
09-16-2012, 04:00 PM
It was good that the summon spell got improved, having only one creature was awful.
I'd agree there's a lot of gain in making it more like the PnP spell, no need to reinvent the wheel.

Granted there's no option to summon a higher level but there's the options to summon more of the lower level.
Maybe not 1d4+1 but surely even a fixed amount would be useful, say two of VII with a summon IX.
(two VIIIs like air eles right away might be too much, while two VIs would be too weak, a gap of two shall work)

The spell has downsides of course, beside the short duration they couldn't move too far away.
And the herzou/barbazu/archon would be anchored, but otherwise work as normal.

Oh, and maybe you can unlock new summons via the monster manual :)

Carkolda
09-17-2012, 01:27 AM
I like this idea as well. All I can say is 12 x 1d4+1 greater air elementals. Just sayin'. ;D