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EllisDee37
09-14-2012, 04:08 PM
My monk will be first life only (no tr) and exactly level 15, no higher, forever.

Do spell power items effect monk finishing moves? If so, which ones are worth boosting at level 15?

Would you rather have garments of equilibrium or a tier 3 ml16 frozen tunic?

Superspeed_Hi5
09-14-2012, 04:10 PM
Spell power will affect the triple fire and triple light finishers and neither one is worth a spell power item. I guess the frozen tunic can be more useful.

Kinerd
09-14-2012, 05:47 PM
Definitely the frozen tunic. Not many things are making a 35 DC Fort save at level 15ish.

I would try and squeeze in a Cannith Devotion item somewhere if you've got the levels for it. Otherwise no big deal.

redspecter23
09-14-2012, 06:07 PM
You say you'll be exactly level 15 permanently so I suspect that there is a specific purpose for this. Knowing that purpose could help with the garments/tunic question as well as lead to other potentially useful recommendations.

Off the top of my head, a reason to leave a monk at level 15, might be to farm specific challenges like Time is Money while still reaping maximum rewards from the low challenges on the highest level. If this is the case (and I'm just guessing really) then I'd go with the Tunic. I'd probably just go with the Tunic anyway, but there could be reasons to use the Garments.

On the topic of finishers, I believe devotion raises the healing finisher. Combustion should raise the triple fire finisher, but even with boosts, it will perform poorly.

JollySwagMan
09-14-2012, 06:43 PM
Lore affects these two finishers as well, however metamagics do not.

Some time ago these finishers went by character level, and way before that metamagics affected them, but those were not WAI and have been fixed for some time now.

JollySwagMan
09-14-2012, 06:58 PM
Also some unsolicited advice: if the Monk is staying at 15, if it doesn't already have Improved Sunder, would consider swapping that in to increase flexibility of Quivering Palm.

Particularly if the character is a Dark or Str Monk with other Fortitude Save attacks to be boosted by the feat.

EllisDee37
09-14-2012, 07:16 PM
Off the top of my head, a reason to leave a monk at level 15, might be to farm specific challenges like Time is Money while still reaping maximum rewards from the low challenges on the highest level.Yep, exactly. Last week (or so) I bought an extra character slot since they were on sale, and decided to use it for a bank mule / challenge farmer combo to get the most out of the slot.

Level 15 is the only level that can run all non-epic challenges at 100%, since some are 4-15 and some are 15-20. I decided monk for variety; my four primary/endgame alts are a thf, a twf, an arcane and a divine. To make him more challenge-friendly I took two dragonmarks of passage for ddoor. (Particularly useful for lava caves and crystal cove.)

I really like the frozen tunic but trying to fit it in is making it difficult to slot heavy fort and concentration. Here's my tentative gear concept using the garments: (Crafting levels in the low 100s)

Head: Teraza's Perfect Sight
Eyes: Attack Bonus +4
Neck: Health +6
Back: Devotion +48 of Resistance +5
Wrist: ML16 Bracers of Wind, Tier 3
Hand: Maenya's Iron Fists
Waist: Dexterous +4 of Greater False Life
Feet: Boots of the Mire
Ring: Ring of the Mire
Ring: Katra's Razor Wit
Trinket: Blindness Ward of Good Luck +2
Body: Garments of Equilibrium
Fists: Vampiric Stonedust Wraps

Light Monk, Human, level 15

In an ideal world this alt will be able to do the crucible swim on elite for any guildies that need it. I'm a big fan of run speed and self-sufficiency.

EDIT: Here's the best I could come up with using Frozen Tunic:

Head: Teraza's Perfect Sight
Eyes: Blindness of Concentration +13
Neck: Health +6 of Natural Armor +3
Back: Devotion +48 of Protection +5
Wrist: Dex +4 of Resistance +5
Hand: Maenya's Iron Fists
Waist: Combustion +48 (?) of Heavy Fortification
Feet: Boots of the Mire
Ring: Ring of the Mire
Ring: Katra's Razor Wit
Trinket: Dusk Heart
Body: ML16 Frozen Tunic, Tier 3
Fists: Vampiric Stonedust Wraps

This boils down to:

+11 AC (I can put +3 natural armor in same place on first build if I want)
-10 hp
-4 to hit
-1 saves (lose +2 good luck, but get +1 from ship buff)
-10% blur (20% down to 10%)
-1 damage die step
+freezing ice
+1 ki per hit

EllisDee37
09-14-2012, 07:24 PM
Will the bracers of wind (Magnetism +90, Major Lightning Lore) do anything for storm strike? I like the bracers mainly for the 20% blur so it's not the worst if it doesn't, but it'd sure be nice.

t0r012
09-14-2012, 07:47 PM
I would ave suggested Healing Amp DT but that's ml 16.

As far as your finisher buffs , it really isn't worth strapping anything on.
Your +40 from your sora Kell is the most you should really bother investing.

EllisDee37
09-14-2012, 07:56 PM
Your +40 from your sora Kell is the most you should really bother investing.Nice, totally forgot about that. Is it fixed now?


I would ave suggested Healing Amp DT but that's ml 16.I'd go with levik's bracers in a heartbeat, but alas I'll never get into the raid. I will keep my eye out for lootgen convalescent bracers, though. 10% amp would get me to 200% if I max both monk and human lines (counting ship buff.)

EllisDee37
09-15-2012, 03:46 AM
Hmmm, going through the feat list I'm thinking Vorpal Strikes might be worth it. Since I'm staying at 15, vorpal should actually be good, no?

EDIT: Ha! Never mind, that's an epic feat.

EllisDee37
09-16-2012, 06:31 AM
How bad would it be to scale back concentration from +13 to +7? I think I have a better setup for frozen tunic worked out now, but i end up with either +7 concentration instead of +13 or +4 dex instead of +6.

Jingwei
09-16-2012, 11:04 AM
How about:

Head: Teraza's Perfect Sight
Eyes: Blindness of Concentration +13
Neck: Deathblock of Protection +5 (+8)
Back: Health +4 of Greater False Life (+9)
Wrist: ML12 T3 Bracers of the wind + (Natural armor +2) or (Melee Alacrity 10%)
Hand: Maenya's Iron Fists
Waist: Dexterity +4 of Heavy Fortification (+9)
Feet: Boots of the Mire
Ring: Ring of the Mire
Ring: Katra's Razor Wit
Trinket: mobility of Resistance +5 (+7)
Body: ML16 Frozen Tunic, Tier 3
Fists: Vampiric Stonedust Wraps

Alkot
09-16-2012, 11:16 AM
Just a suggestion but if i was going for a challenge farmer i would probably go for something with ddoor makes several challenges much easier, not to mention the ease of self healing/dps from a wf sorc

icekinslayer
09-16-2012, 01:52 PM
how are you planning on wearing ML 16 gear at level 15? is there a trick i missed somewhere?

Gadget2775
09-16-2012, 02:07 PM
Don't know how feasible this is for you....get guildies to drag you through Shroud flag/Shrouds. Construct a T3 double shard, specifically Min 2. Gives, 45 HP, Heavy Fort, Protection 5, and 5 or 6 to all Constitution based skills. Specifically Concentration. Slot where evermost convenient.

Gadget2775
09-16-2012, 02:13 PM
how are you planning on wearing ML 16 gear at level 15? is there a trick i missed somewhere?

Must be completely sleep fogged, totaly missed that.

DynaTheCat
09-16-2012, 05:19 PM
My monk will be first life only (no tr) and exactly level 15, no higher, forever.



Did I read this right? This statement confuses and angers me.... but mostly confuses me.

So... you don't plan to level beyond 15? Then.... why even care about whether spell power affects your moves or not....

Is there some kind of ungodly role playing cult rule that I don't know about?

Jingwei
09-16-2012, 07:05 PM
The T3 challenge items get some Cannith Crafting potential, you can then put masterful craftsmanship on them to lower the ML by 2.

Alkot
09-16-2012, 07:28 PM
The T3 challenge items get some Cannith Crafting potential, you can then put masterful craftsmanship on them to lower the ML by 2.

That was nerfed away afaik

Gadget2775
09-16-2012, 07:59 PM
the t3 challenge items get some cannith crafting potential, you can then put masterful craftsmanship on them to lower the ml by 2.

t/y

Ryiah
09-16-2012, 09:02 PM
Did I read this right? This statement confuses and angers me.... but mostly confuses me.

What confuses me is why you even bothered to post let alone why it angers you. He clearly explained he wants a character that can farm challenges without decreasing the experience that others get from them. He cares about Spell Power and the like because he wants the character to be the best it can be even though he's limiting it to level 15.

Jingwei
09-16-2012, 09:12 PM
Head: Teraza's Perfect Sight
Eyes: Blindness of Greater False Life
Neck: Deathblock of Protection +5 (+8)
Back: Dexterity +6 of Natural Armor +3
Wrist: ML12 T3 Bracers of the wind + (Melee Alacrity 10%)
Hand: Maenya's Iron Fists
Waist: Belt of thougtful rememberance (+5 Con, +13 Concentration, 20% negative absorbtion)
Feet: Boots of the Mire
Ring: Ring of the Mire
Ring: Katra's Razor Wit
Trinket: mobility of Resistance +5 (+7)
Body: ML16 Frozen Tunic, Tier 3
Fists: Vampiric Stonedust Wraps

And if you can't make the ML16 cannith gear ML14 with masterful craftsmanship anymore, then you could wear a ML12 frozen tunic with spearblock, random +30% striding boots, and free up a ring slot which should let you slot attack +4

Something like:
Head: Teraza's Perfect Sight
Eyes: Blindness of Greater False Life
Neck: Deathblock of Protection +5 (+8)
Back: Dexterity +6 of Natural Armor +3
Wrist: ML12 T3 Bracers of the wind + (Melee Alacrity 10%)
Hand: Maenya's Iron Fists
Waist: Belt of thougtful rememberance (+5 Con, +13 Concentration, 20% negative absorbtion)
Feet: Random +30% striding Boots
Ring: unbalancing of Attack +4
Ring: Katra's Razor Wit
Trinket: mobility of Resistance +5 (+7)
Body: ML12 Frozen Tunic, Tier 3 + Spearblock
Fists: Vampiric Stonedust Wraps

[edit]
Sigh, they are missing heavy fort. So need to drop back to dex +4 to fit it.

EllisDee37
09-16-2012, 09:19 PM
farm challenges without decreasing the experience that others get from themIt's more about not wanting the penalty for being overlevel. One of the big complaints with cannith challenges is that when you're level 23 or 25, you take a huge penalty when farming up non-epic parts, which are required no matter what you're crafting up. (Even epic items require non-epic parts for tier 1.)

Level 15 is the only level that gets 100% parts from every non-epic challenge.


Just a suggestion but if i was going for a challenge farmer i would probably go for something with ddoor makes several challenges much easier, not to mention the ease of self healing/dps from a wf sorcAgreed 100%. I mentioned upthread that I'm taking dragonmarks of passage for ddoor, and I'm also going light monk for self-healing. One of my endgame alts is an arcane, so I'm not really interested in having a second version. Monk is a whole new flavor for my account, which has value to me.



How about:
Head: Teraza's Perfect Sight
Eyes: Blindness of Concentration +13
Neck: Deathblock of Protection +5 (+8)
Back: Health +4 of Greater False Life (+9)
Wrist: ML12 T3 Bracers of the wind + (Natural armor +2) or (Melee Alacrity 10%)
Hand: Maenya's Iron Fists
Waist: Dexterity +4 of Heavy Fortification (+9)
Feet: Boots of the Mire
Ring: Ring of the Mire
Ring: Katra's Razor Wit
Trinket: mobility of Resistance +5 (+7)
Body: ML16 Frozen Tunic, Tier 3
Fists: Vampiric Stonedust Wraps

I really like a lot of these concepts. Unfortunately my crafting isn't up to the challenge, currently at (roughly) 110/101/101. Meaning I can't do most of those flex shards. On the plus side, I realized that I can drop the mire set completely thanks to dragonmarks. I also don't need alacrity thanks to wind stance.

I'm really embracing the concept of having an alternate enhancement loadout for this monk to be a crucible swimmer. So far I'm looking at mid-50s AC in challenge mode, and +40 reflex w/40 swim for crucible mode. Once I hammer out the details I'll post the full build to see what you guys think.



Don't know how feasible this is for you....get guildies to drag you through Shroud flag/Shrouds. Construct a T3 double shard, specifically Min 2. Gives, 45 HP, Heavy Fort, Protection 5, and 5 or 6 to all Constitution based skills. Specifically Concentration. Slot where evermost convenient. I've been thinking about this. I have plenty of larges; if I could just get into a couple charity shrouds on normal I could probably get the shards I need. Heck, I could be a contributing member to elite DA anyway. So GS is not completely ruled out, for sure. And yeah, min2 is exactly what I was thinking.



how are you planning on wearing ML 16 gear at level 15? is there a trick i missed somewhere? Masterful drops it to ML14.

That was nerfed away afaikNo it wasn't. You might be thinking of the ML correction. Originally, tier 3 craftable challenge items were one level too low, meaning ML16 stuff magically became ML15 as soon as it hit tier 3, and then masterful dropped that down to ML13. The correction makes them ML14 with masterful.

EllisDee37
09-16-2012, 09:23 PM
So as not to get buried in the previous post, here are the two questions I have based on feedback:


The idea of ML12 bracers with room for +2 worth of crafting is intriguing. The only loss is Air Guard. Is Air Guard any good?


Is mid-50s AC any good for level 15 stuff? Keep in mind that challenges are essentially at-level quests on normal. Crucible elite will probably be a different story, but if mid-50s is solid for level 15 normals then it will be well worth it for me.

EllisDee37
09-16-2012, 09:50 PM
Body: ML12 Frozen Tunic, Tier 3 + SpearblockThis would be nice except that the only reason I want frozen tunic over garments of equilibrium is for the extra ki. Freezing ice is nice, but the extra damage from the garments takes the edge off losing it. The ki, otoh, is already clearly needed based on my limited playing so far. (Having only leveled from 7 to 9 but it's clear as day: I need lots and lots of ki.)

Current thinking:

Head: Teraza's Perfect Sight
Eyes: Accuracy
Neck: Health +6 of Natural Armor +3
Back: Unbalancing of Resistance +5
Wrist: ML16 Bracers of Wind
Hand: Maenya's Iron Fists
Waist: Feather Falling of Greater False Life
Feet: Dexterity +6 of Balance +7
Ring: Katra's Razor Wit
Ring: Blindness Ward of Protection +5
Trinket: Mobility of Good Luck +2
Body: Garments of Equilibirum
Fists: Vampiric Stonedust Wraps

Head: Teraza's Perfect Sight
Eyes: Accuracy
Neck: Health +6 of Natural Armor +3
Back: Unbalancing of Resistance +5
Wrist: ML16 Bracers of Wind
Hand: Maenya's Iron Fists
Waist: Feather Falling of Greater False Life
Feet: Dexterity +6 of Concentration +7
Ring: Katra's Razor Wit
Ring: Blindness Ward of Heavy Fortification
Trinket: Mobility of Good Luck +2
Body: ML16 Frozen Tunic
Fists: Vampiric Stonedust Wraps

I tried to make it as painless as possible to change my mind, and to that end only 3 items (including the outift) need to change if I want to try the other outfit out. Both options result in essentially the same AC. The only real change is the tunic loses me 6 concentration and 7 balance.

EDIT: This setup allows painless introduction of a min2 belt. Greater False Life moves over to the ring that no longer needs heavy fort/protection +5, and the FF from the belt can move up to goggles. I don't even need the FF anyway, but hey, it fits so may as well.

EDIT 2: An alternate idea from my guildie who hates katra's wit...

Head: Cove Hat: Superior False Life of Concentration +15 w/Kobold Haste
Eyes: Min2
Neck: Health +6 of Natural Armor +3
Back: Unbalancing of Resistance +5
Wrist: ML16 Bracers of Wind
Hand: ML12 Brawling Gloves
Waist: ML16 Spare Hand
Feet: Dexterity +6 of Balance +7
Ring: ML16 Ring of the Stalker
Ring: Wise +6 of Jump +7
Trinket: Mobility of Good Luck +2
Body: ML16 Frozen Tunic
Fists: Vampiric Stonedust Wraps

AbyssalMage
09-16-2012, 10:44 PM
Why so worried about AC?

With the AC changes in U14 you should have a decent AC unless challenges work (slightly) different than normal adventures. Blurry and Dodge I would think would be more important unless challenges are a whole different beast.

EllisDee37
09-16-2012, 10:51 PM
No particular reason. My only thinking is that if I can get a relatively decent AC I may as well go for it, y'know?

EllisDee37
09-16-2012, 11:23 PM
Okay here's the complete build:


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.14.02
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Challenge Farmer
Level 15 Lawful Good Human Male
(15 Monk)
Hit Points: 202
Spell Points: 0
BAB: 11\11\16\21
Fortitude: 13
Reflex: 13
Will: 15

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 15)
Strength 15 16
Dexterity 15 17
Constitution 15 16
Intelligence 8 8
Wisdom 15 20
Charisma 8 8

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+1 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 15)
Balance 5 23
Bluff -1 -1
Concentration 6 21
Diplomacy -1 -1
Disable Device n/a n/a
Haggle -1 -1
Heal 2 5
Hide 2 3
Intimidate -1 -1
Jump 6 20
Listen 2 5
Move Silently 2 3
Open Lock n/a n/a
Perform n/a n/a
Repair -1 -1
Search -1 -1
Spot 2 5
Swim 6 21
Tumble 3 4
Use Magic Device n/a n/a

Level 1 (Monk)
Skill: Balance (+4)
Skill: Concentration (+4)
Skill: Jump (+3)
Skill: Swim (+4)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Feat: (Human Bonus) Least Dragonmark of Passage
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Stunning Fist
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting


Level 2 (Monk)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Swim (+1)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness


Level 3 (Monk)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Swim (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Luck of Heroes
Feat: (Monk Path) Path of Harmonious Balance: Fists of Light


Level 4 (Monk)
Ability Raise: WIS
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Swim (+1)


Level 5 (Monk)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Swim (+1)


Level 6 (Monk)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Swim (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Lesser Dragonmark of Passage
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Power Attack


Level 7 (Monk)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Swim (+1)


Level 8 (Monk)
Ability Raise: WIS
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Swim (+1)


Level 9 (Monk)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Swim (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting


Level 10 (Monk)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Swim (+1)


Level 11 (Monk)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Swim (+1)


Level 12 (Monk)
Ability Raise: WIS
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Swim (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons


Level 13 (Monk)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Swim (+1)


Level 14 (Monk)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Swim (+1)


Level 15 (Monk)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Swim (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting




There are two different sets of enhancements, one for normal challenge/event farming or questing, and then a special one for crucible.

Challenge Enhancements

Shintao II
Way of the Patient Tortoise IV
Adept of Wind
Master of Thunder

Monk Wisdom I
Human Adaptability: Wisdom

Human Improved Recovery II
Monk Improved Recovery III

Racial Toughness II
Improved Concentration II
Human Versatility III
Extra Dragonmark Use III

Crucible Enhancements

Way of the Clever Monkey IV
Adept of Wind
Master of Thunder
Adept of Rain
Master of the Sea

Monk Wisdom I
Human Adaptability: Dexterity

Human Improved Recovery II
Monk Improved Recovery III

Racial Toughness II
Improved Concentration I
Improved Swim IV
Human Versatility IV

Jingwei
09-16-2012, 11:58 PM
If you are having trouble with ki generation, try fire stance + melee alacrity instead of wind stance.

On my monkadin life (15 paladin/3 monk/2 fighter) was pretty much able to keeps fists of light and the 4 elemental strikes all on cooldown with fire stance and melee alacrity.

slimkj
09-17-2012, 04:39 AM
The idea of ML12 bracers with room for +2 worth of crafting is intriguing. The only loss is Air Guard. Is Air Guard any good?
Yes, Air Guard is good. At that level, a lot will fail it's save vs the trip effect. You also get an occasional free haste which is nice a) if you're not running in Wind (and who is these days...?) and b) iirc the +1 AC benefit stacks with regular Haste so even if you craft up some Shroud haste clickies, or keep a stock of pots, you'll still benefit.

I love Air Guard and I try and fit it on most of my melee. However, as ever, you have to balance it against what else you'll gain from that +2 crafting. You could be adding some Dodge, I guess, which is ok but I would say procs infrequently enough that I'd probably rather have the Air Guard over it.


Is mid-50s AC any good for level 15 stuff? Keep in mind that challenges are essentially at-level quests on normal. Crucible elite will probably be a different story, but if mid-50s is solid for level 15 normals then it will be well worth it for me.
I'm no AC expert but I would say yes. In at level qs on Norm, ~55 should provide a fair amount of mitigation.
--
BTW, on the plan itself; a guildie and I did something similar, but at L7/8 to farm the lower lvl ingreds for L12 items. He ran a WF Sorc, I ran a Helf Light Monk. It worked a charm, so your plan seems like a good one.

Just one bit of advice from experience: I would advocate a 1 Rgr splash. Why?


Sprint Boost - brilliant speed boost for getting across large challenge maps quickly, really works well with monk base run speed (though you would be losing a 5% step of that by dropping Mnk15)
If you are planning to use the LLL finisher, Ranger Devotion I is available for another +20%.
One FE, which you could orient around the most common challenge mobs if you wanted.
You get Bow Strength, so depending on what you plan to run and how, you may want to invest a Monk feat in Zen Archery to give you some versatility in attack mechanisms. It's not optimum without Manyshot etc, of course, but sometimes having different approaches to call on is a boon. For example, wanting to defend one area and drag/distract mobs from other areas to either kill or leash them.

All that said, Mnk15 does provide quite a lot of benefit so you'll probably, on paper, be better off going pure. In game, however, I just can't turn down that Sprint Boost on top of 12Mnk base run speed. :)

EllisDee37
09-17-2012, 03:23 PM
I hear you 100% on the utility of that one ranger level. My ranger lurves his sprint boost. I'm probably going to stick with pure, but that's a solid thought. I'll have five DDoors per rest, which should help out with movement.

Thanks much for the feedback on Air Guard, I'll go with the ML16 one.


if you're not running in Wind (and who is these days...?)I intend to, but I don't know much about monks. This is my first and only monk, actually. What's the conventional wisdom against running in air stance? Melee alacrity can be crafted and fit in without much trouble, but I love the look of that double-strike.


BTW, on the plan itself; a guildie and I did something similar, but at L7/8 to farm the lower lvl ingreds for L12 items. He ran a WF Sorc, I ran a Helf Light Monk. It worked a charm, so your plan seems like a good one.As a level 15 I can farm the lower level ingredients at 100% reward rate. I could farm up an ML4 item if I were crazy enough to want one and take no reward penalty in the process. As a 15 I also get the side benefit of being able to do the crucible swim for guildies.

slimkj
09-18-2012, 10:25 AM
Thanks much for the feedback on Air Guard, I'll go with the ML16 one.

I intend to, but I don't know much about monks. This is my first and only monk, actually. What's the conventional wisdom against running in air stance? Melee alacrity can be crafted and fit in without much trouble, but I love the look of that double-strike.
You're welcome.

Wind. Well, it's still good for the Doublestrike, yes, but I prefer Earth for the PRR and boost to crits and AC. It also adds HP and aids survivability, of course. I used to run in Wind a lot out of laziness, not having to hit Haste pots every 30s before I had GS clickies, and to avoid the 10% run speed penalty but these days I stick on a 10% Melee Alacrity item and only hit Haste for harder, high HP bosses. I even run my AA Monk in Earth despite her being a kiting solo toon, taking the 10% run speed hit for the survivability it adds.

10% alacrity does me for most things. It's probably not completly optimum but for a player who likes to focus his limited mental energies (my work is strenuous, brain-wise) on Ki strikes, finishers, etc. rather than inventory management, it's an obvious choice for me.

Also, from memory I think it's very close to Wind in terms of DPS these days too, but I can't remember a source for that so take a pinch of salt on that! That also may be at GM level at 18 rather than 12 I saw the comparison, so again pinch of salt...


As a level 15 I can farm the lower level ingredients at 100% reward rate. I could farm up an ML4 item if I were crazy enough to want one and take no reward penalty in the process. As a 15 I also get the side benefit of being able to do the crucible swim for guildies.
Ah right, didn't know that. I just used VetII for mine as I had nothing in that level range at the time. Worked surprisingly well for a poorly geared toon. Yeah, wasn't suggesting you change your plan - sounds like a good one. I just meant generally this kind of thing has worked well in my experience.

(But on the Crucible swim idea... well, I love my guildies, but they would have to suffer it themselves, no way I'd do it for anything other than flagging a new char these days ;) Stupid swim!)

EllisDee37
09-19-2012, 06:55 PM
Wind. Well, it's still good for the Doublestrike, yes, but I prefer Earth for the PRR and boost to crits and AC. It also adds HP and aids survivability, of course. I used to run in Wind a lot out of laziness, not having to hit Haste pots every 30s before I had GS clickies, and to avoid the 10% run speed penalty but these days I stick on a 10% Melee Alacrity item and only hit Haste for harder, high HP bosses. I even run my AA Monk in Earth despite her being a kiting solo toon, taking the 10% run speed hit for the survivability it adds.

10% alacrity does me for most things. It's probably not completly optimum but for a player who likes to focus his limited mental energies (my work is strenuous, brain-wise) on Ki strikes, finishers, etc. rather than inventory management, it's an obvious choice for me.

Also, from memory I think it's very close to Wind in terms of DPS these days too, but I can't remember a source for that so take a pinch of salt on that! That also may be at GM level at 18 rather than 12 I saw the comparison, so again pinch of salt...Nice, thanks much for the explanation. I see where you're coming from and agree. For me personally, I put an inordinate -- almost unhealthy -- premium on run speed just in general, to the point that before 5-minute-minimum was instituted for clickied I always took dragonmark of passage at 1 for the striding, switching to mire (and speccing out the dragonmark) at 7.

In this specific instance I think the run speed has actual utility outside of my irrational personal needs, as running challenges puts a premium on run speed.


(But on the Crucible swim idea... well, I love my guildies, but they would have to suffer it themselves, no way I'd do it for anything other than flagging a new char these days ;) Stupid swim!)I actually dig the crucible swim. My evasion paladin, tempest trapmonkey and pale trapper are all capable of and do the swim each life, and I try to wait for guildies to fill out the group to get them their favor. This way I can just leave a monk at-level for it and call it a day.

His crucible stats will be 40 reflex w/improved evasion and 48 (!) swim without merfolk's, so I'm thinking it'll be a breeze.

Jingwei
09-20-2012, 05:16 AM
For the crucible swim, remember that a parrying weapon adds +2 to saves, and should stack with resistance and good luck.
+10 ref infused chaos robe may be worth it too.
Of course, don't know what ref save you need to have to only fail on a 1 in there.

EllisDee37
09-20-2012, 01:54 PM
For the crucible swim, remember that a parrying weapon adds +2 to saves, and should stack with resistance and good luck.
+10 ref infused chaos robe may be worth it too.
Of course, don't know what ref save you need to have to only fail on a 1 in there.Excellent thoughts. I already have a crafted greater parrying kama planned as a crucible swim swap.

I have a BTA +10 reflex parasitic breastplate I keep in the shared bank and pull out for whichever alt is doing the swim at the time, but sadly the +10 reflex gear is all ML16. Just missed!

I have been told in the past that mid/high-30s is enough to get through the swim, with low-40s being the no-fail (except on a 1) area. My experience of usually doing the swim around 36 reflex seems to bear this out. (Evasion goes without saying.)

This monk will have the following reflex for the swim:

9 base
8 dex
5 resistance item
2 luck
4 heroism (planar gird)
4 monkey
4 water stance
2 greater parrying
--
38
2 way of the sun (1 minute finishing move buff)
--
40

He'll also have +5 saves from human versatility, but that only lasts for 20 seconds and I don't think it can be refreshed while underwater. Certainly that first 20 seconds will be at 45, though.

redspecter23
09-20-2012, 02:59 PM
Also include the eldritch ritual for +1 saves. It looks like it could make your swim even easier than it already is and get you a bit closer to "fail only on a 1"

EllisDee37
09-20-2012, 03:25 PM
Also include the eldritch ritual for +1 saves. It looks like it could make your swim even easier than it already is and get you a bit closer to "fail only on a 1"Nice! Totally will do that, since this alt will be in the unique position of being permanently finished regardless of new level increases.

I'd already planned on the eldritch ritual for AC, but had completely forgotten about saves. Good call.

EDIT: Speaking of which, I could do guild augments too but I'm a little confused.

Tiny: +1 Reflex Save vs Traps
Small: +1 Reflex Save vs Evocation
Medium: +1 Reflex Save vs Magic
Large: +1 Reflex Save

Since my guild doesn't support large augments yet I should go with tiny, right?

EllisDee37
09-21-2012, 03:11 AM
Never mind, a guildie tested crucible and +38 reflex is the "fail only on a 1" point, so I don't need way of the sun, eldritch rituals or guild augments. Woot!

EDIT: Also, that same guildie thinks Min2 goggles and ml16 stalker ring, losing blindness ward and accuracy. This is very tempting, and I may go this route.

EllisDee37
09-21-2012, 04:19 AM
We came up with a stronger gearset, though it's a longer term project due to cove not coming back for a while:

Head: Cove Hat: Superior False Life of Concentration +15 w/Kobold Haste
Eyes: Min2
Neck: Health +6 of Natural Armor +3
Back: Unbalancing of Resistance +5
Wrist: ML16 Bracers of Wind
Hand: ML12 Brawling Gloves
Waist: ML16 Spare Hand
Feet: Dexterity +6 of Balance +7
Ring: ML16 Ring of the Stalker
Ring: Wise +6 of Jump +7
Trinket: Mobility of Good Luck +2
Body: ML16 Frozen Tunic
Fists: Vampiric Stonedust Wraps

EllisDee37
09-22-2012, 11:56 PM
Since I'm going dex boots regardless, are madstone boots good for monks?

Jingwei
09-23-2012, 12:52 AM
They apparently work fine for dark monks, but shut down 'a lot' of light moves. Don't know exactly which ones. Will be starting monk like in a few days, so will be trying it out myself to see.

slimkj
09-23-2012, 06:22 PM
Depends on what you plan to do, really. I have two pairs, one upgraded, on my Dark HElf (Clr dili) but never wear them now as I get irritated finding myself unable to do things.

EllisDee37
09-26-2012, 03:41 AM
I just noticed thaarak bracers in one of my alts' tr cache. ML15, so it fits the bill. Either set of bracers fits equally well in all of the gearsets I've come up with; which would you rather have?

Thaarak Bracelet
Toughness
DR 3/Lawful
Dodge 2%

ML16 Bracers of Wind
Blurry
Air Guard
Dodge 3%
Magnetism +90
Major Lightning Lore

I'm pretty sure the magnetism and lore will help out with Storm Strike III, but not positive. I'm a huge fan of dr, and the one thing lacking in this build is dr so now I'm on the fence as to which I'd rather have. Blurry is pretty darn cool, but then again I can blur myself with a finishing move. Not reliably, of course, but still.

slimkj
09-26-2012, 05:57 AM
Incoming dmg at 15 isn't high enough imo to worry about DR and it's a paltry amount anyway. Those bracers are useful if you have Heavy Fort covered already and want Toughness in another slot to free up head slot (without Minos) for the HP boost but otherwise I would go for the Wind Bracers every time.

Edit: The Magnetism should help, aye. Not sure about the Lore, but I would guess at yes.

EllisDee37
09-26-2012, 06:39 PM
Well, the dr helps against Devashta with her six swords of doom, but that one fight can easily be managed by swapping on a Mantle of Stria (axeblock) or Furor's Hide (lesser axeblock) to achieve the same effect. Cloak is unbalancing of resistance, which you don't need for that fight so the swap should work fine.

I'm confused, though. Lower damage means DR is more effective. How could damage be low enough that dr doesn't matter?

EDIT: For clarity, I tend to agree that the wind bracers are better.

Kinerd
09-26-2012, 06:59 PM
There could be a sweet spot where damage is high enough to be relevant (relative to healing, especially as a monk) but not so high as to trivialize DR.

I'm a DR junkie, though, so I say go for it!

EllisDee37
09-26-2012, 07:19 PM
Oops sorry wrong thread.

EllisDee37
09-26-2012, 08:08 PM
Thanks all for the feedback, it has been invaluable. The final build is now posted here (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=393575).

slimkj
09-27-2012, 06:14 AM
I'm confused, though. Lower damage means DR is more effective. How could damage be low enough that dr doesn't matter?
Sorry, I wasn't very clear. I mean; when you're at a level with that kind of incoming dmg, vamp/lesser vamp procs and CSW pots are enough (Heal scrolls too for big bursts if you're Clr Dili HElf).

I agree that when dmg is low, low DR works well. What I'm saying is that without it, the 3 per hit has such little impact I wouldn't use a slot on it. I may as well just heal through the paltry 3 extra dmg per swing.