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bullfrogma
09-12-2012, 06:12 AM
Thank the gods that f2p only gives you 2 characters to make. I want to try something like this for my other. But I wonder if I'm understanding this right. Of the following conclusions what would work out well for a tempest? I'm pretty curious how haste would compare to damage or having damage reduction, but feats and maybe a spell might sway the vote. What do you think?


12 ranger 7 barbarian 1 rogue _____ +10 hps -- 15% haste -- 20% damage -- DR 12/- -- rogue skills -- rage+3con.

12 ranger 4 fighter 4 barbarian _____ 3 feats -- 20% haste -- 15% damage -- DR 9/- -- rage+1con.

14 ranger 4 fighter 2 barbarian _____ 3 feats -- 20% haste -- 10% damage -- DR 6/- -- one 4th level spell -- rage.

18 ranger 2 barbarian _____ tempest III -- 10% damage -- DR 6/- -- two 4thlevel spells -- rage.

---- Also if rogue and fighter haste enhancements stack together, how about...

14 ranger 2 fighter 4 rogue _____ 2 feats -- 35% haste -- rogue skills -- one 4th level spell.

12 ranger 4 fighter 4 rogue _____ 3 feats -- 40% haste -- rogue skills.


4th level spells would probably be cure serious and/or freedom of movement (sighs razor cat). Bonus feats I'm just not sure. Improved Feint or Whirlwind? Plus 2 or 4 damage? Stunning Blow? Macarena? I'm already looking at a pretty standard build for a dwarf with Toughness, Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack, Improved Crit: Slash, Power Attack, and Oversized Two-Weapon Fighting.

Anyway, I've been trying to find posts that could help me understand how to make this decision, and I have not. Can anyone help me avoid rerolling? Anything helps, except for the Macarena.

Jingwei
09-12-2012, 08:14 AM
Only one 'Class' based enhancements (haste, damage, etc) can be active at the time, and they don't stack. So, for example, you can run Rogue haste boost and rogue damage boost at the same time.

However, you can run the damage boost that comes from human versatility at the same time that you are running a class based haste boost.

A dwarven melee ranger might look something like this:


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.11.02
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 20 Lawful Good Dwarf Male
(1 Fighter \ 1 Rogue \ 18 Ranger)
Hit Points: 332
Spell Points: 230
BAB: 19\19\24\29\29
Fortitude: 17
Reflex: 17
Will: 6

Starting Ending Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Base Stats Modified Stats
(28 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20) (Level 20)
Strength 15 20 20
Dexterity 14 15 18
Constitution 16 16 18
Intelligence 14 14 14
Wisdom 10 10 10
Charisma 6 6 6

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 17

Starting Ending Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20) (Level 20)
Balance 6 8 12
Bluff 2 2 2
Concentration 5 26 26
Diplomacy 2 2 2
Disable Device 6 25 25
Haggle -2 -2 -2
Heal 0 0 0
Hide 2 4 4
Intimidate -2 -2 -2
Jump 2 5 5
Listen 0 0 0
Move Silently 2 4 4
Open Lock 6 15 15
Perform n/a n/a n/a
Repair 2 2 2
Search 6 25 27
Spot 4 23 23
Swim 2 5 5
Tumble 6 8 8
Use Magic Device 2 21 21

Level 1 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+4)
Skill: Bluff (+4)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Diplomacy (+4)
Skill: Disable Device (+4)
Skill: Open Lock (+4)
Skill: Search (+4)
Skill: Spot (+4)
Skill: Tumble (+4)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
Feat: (Selected) Dodge


Level 2 (Ranger)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Undead


Level 3 (Ranger)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Mobility


Level 4 (Ranger)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 5 (Ranger)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 6 (Ranger)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Elemental
Feat: (Selected) Spring Attack


Level 7 (Ranger)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 8 (Ranger)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 9 (Ranger)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 10 (Ranger)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 11 (Ranger)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider


Level 12 (Ranger)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 13 (Ranger)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 14 (Fighter)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Power Attack


Level 15 (Ranger)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+2)
Skill: Spot (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Oversized Two Weapon Fighting


Level 16 (Ranger)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 17 (Ranger)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Elf


Level 18 (Ranger)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Defense


Level 19 (Ranger)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 20 (Ranger)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Ranger Skill Boost I
Enhancement: Ranger Skill Boost II
Enhancement: Ranger Skill Boost III
Enhancement: Ranger Skill Boost IV
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Attack I
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Damage I
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Damage II
Enhancement: Dwarven Constitution I
Enhancement: Dwarven Constitution II
Enhancement: Dwarven Spell Defense I
Enhancement: Fighter Item Defense I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness III
Enhancement: Racial Toughness IV
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Attack I
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage I
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage II
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage III
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage IV
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Defense I
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Resistance I
Enhancement: Ranger Tempest I
Enhancement: Ranger Tempest II
Enhancement: Ranger Tempest III
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Ranger Devotion I
Enhancement: Ranger Devotion II
Enhancement: Ranger Devotion III
Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity I
Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity II
Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity III
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
Enhancement: Rogue Improved Trap Sense I




You get full trapping skills, open locks at a moderate level, which should be enough to unlock everything with the right gear. You can also use the ranger skill boost to increase your rogue skills for the time it take to find or disarm a trap or open a lock. You have full Use Magical Device (UMD) so you'll probably be able to manage healing yourself with scrolls or wands.

Don't really have a great choice for the last feat, you probalby won't have the strength to manage to get great use out of improved sunder, and the PRR from two weapon defense may help some. But any other feat would work too.

With more build points, more gear, any more game knowledge, it's possible to get considerably more out of a ranger than this.

ReaperAlexEU
09-12-2012, 11:06 AM
Only one 'Class' based enhancements (haste, damage, etc) can be active at the time, and they don't stack. So, for example, you can[b] run Rogue haste boost and rogue damage boost at the same time.

However, you [b]can run the damage boost that comes from human versatility at the same time that you are running a class based haste boost.


i can i can't? hehe, think your fingers slipped there :) i hate it when mine do that!

FrozenNova
09-12-2012, 12:48 PM
Don't really have a great choice for the last feat, you probalby won't have the strength to manage to get great use out of improved sunder, and the PRR from two weapon defense may help some. But any other feat would work too.

Don't forget the two epic feats.
Cleave, great cleave, then overwhelming critical would probably be the way to go, even if you hardly use cleave.

The macarena always helps.

bullfrogma
09-12-2012, 01:30 PM
It's been letting me run 2 boosts from different classes at the same time, but if they are the same boost, like both haste, it just doesn't add up? So a boost from one class would work okey with a different boost from a different class?

7 in barbarian seems to come with a lot of good things, like 20% damage, DR 12/-, Improved Uncanny Dodge, more Toughness and better Rage. Is Tempest III alone really worth a lot? It seems like 5% double attack wouldn't make up for surviving more, especially with damage reduction. But then again I don't know that much of the game.

Maybe I'm worrying about rerolling more than I should. I've been playing my cleric and the game is just all kinds of fun.

FrozenNova
09-12-2012, 01:46 PM
It's been letting me run 2 boosts from different classes at the same time, but if they are the same boost, like both haste, it just doesn't add up? So a boost from one class would work okey with a different boost from a different class?

That shouldn't be right. For instance, I have an 18 barb / 2 fighter. He can't use barbarian damage boost and fighter haste boost at the same time, they're on the same cooldown. The exception being human and half elf versatility - the damage boost from versatility is on a different cooldown to other non-damage class boosts. For instance, a human rogue could run both damage and haste boost at once - but not rogue damage boost and human damage boost.


7 in barbarian seems to come with a lot of good things, like 20% damage, DR 12/-, Improved Uncanny Dodge, more Toughness and better Rage. Is Tempest III alone really worth a lot? It seems like 5% double attack wouldn't make up for surviving more, especially with damage reduction. But then again I don't know that much of the game.

It's not a particularly common split, but you're right, 7 barbarian gives you a lot of goodies, especially with the new improved uncanny dodge. A 12 ranger/7 barbarian/1 rogue would probably outdamage the 18/1/1 variant, but not by much. Regular rangers are usually helf or human, so they'd be getting the damage boost clickie anyway - so it's between rage+frenzy versus tempest III and favored enemy, and you'd lose 4th level spells, while I'm not sure whether traps can be kept maxed through the barb levels.

bullfrogma
09-12-2012, 02:26 PM
I must have noticed it wrong. I'll check again but i'm sure you're right because i'm very not sure i am. Thanks again.

But, man, it seems to me like DR 12/- by itself would be worth more than tempest III, considering it would effect every single hit you take versus 5% of what you do. Is DR just not that effective? Does the barbarian DR boost not stack with item DR?

FrozenNova
09-12-2012, 02:33 PM
But, man, it seems to me like DR 12/- by itself would be worth more than tempest III, considering it would effect every single hit you take versus 5% of what you do. Is DR just not that effective? Does the barbarian DR boost not stack with item DR?

It's only an action boost, it's not permanent. No, it doesn't stack with items. Honestly on my barbarian it's not even worth the AP at cap. Improved uncanny dodge is much more appealing, you literally dodge every other attack for its duration and its use limited only by cooldowns.

Tempest III is not the only reason to take 18 ranger. Favored enemy bonuses and 4th level spells are significant.

bullfrogma
09-12-2012, 04:44 PM
Nice. i'll think about it and keep playing my cleric mostly for now.

Thanks a ton, Nova. I don't think i can give props yet or i would.

EllisDee37
09-12-2012, 07:39 PM
The tempest trapmonkey (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=277496) is a quality build. I went with human.