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View Full Version : Replace Healing and Repairing Kits with Pots that cannot be bought from vendors.



whitehawk74
09-10-2012, 02:42 AM
I posted this a few months back and I thought I would post it again.

Those (arguably) useless Healing and Repairing kits that drop from time to time starting from level 1 should be replaced with the equivalent potions.
A Healing kit could become a Superior Heal Potion (62-80 HP per use) and a Repair kit could become Superior Repair Potion (the same amount I guess.. i couldnt find one on the Wiki)

They could keep the drop rate the same, as it isnt too high or too low but does drop on lev 1 quests which is good for future use... people might even learn to BYOH.
Instead of the kits being vendor trash or being left in a chest the potions could be put to good use, either on the AH or hoarded for other characters.

This would also put less pressure on the Healing classes and allow them to throw down some major damage. Im sure there are plenty of other good reasons too.

As I am a Premium I have spent enough on this game for this year, and the prices on the DDO store are quite steep. http://ddowiki.com/page/DDOstore/Healing

I have never used a Healing or Repair kit. Never Ever Ever. I have never had one used on me either. A wand of CLW does a better job.

OR - and I just thought of this, make the kits actually useful, like "1d8+Heal Skill*Kit level" worth of Healing. The 'casting time' could be 5 seconds.. something that wouldnt replace a spell, wand or potion.

TL-DR, swap the kits for potions. BTA if Turbine wants to get more people to buy shards bank accounts.

Thoughts anyone?

dennison_brillo
09-10-2012, 02:53 AM
it is useful to have the ability to revive and stabilize someone without having a healer. It was never meant to be a cure light wounds or anything like that. I'm pretty sure you need them to revive pets on arti's and druids(maybe wrong on that). I use them all the time when we do our melee only runs.

whitehawk74
09-10-2012, 03:21 AM
Cure Light Wounds and Repair Light Damage wands are only 20 UMD for 100%. That's level 6 or 7 for a Rogue or a Wizard. Arti's and Druids can already heal and have high UMD anyway.

I've been playing for 2 years and like I said before, I have never used one or had one used on me. I dont think I have even heard of one being used until I read your post.

I think the benefit of having these Superior Potions outweigh the need for kits at lower levels.
... as for them dropping as end reward in the Shroud... I shake my head and wonder.

At the moment, the Heal and Repair Skill points arnt important enough to spend points on.
If they tied those skills in with the amount the kit healed for then I might use them from time to time.
Getting back to 1HP is pointless if there are any enemies about. If the person had healing potions on them in the first place they shouldnt have gotten that low on HP in the first place.

dennison_brillo
09-10-2012, 03:31 AM
not sue you are seeing the point of the kits. you can't use pots on others and you can't take pots when your bleeding out. they are there for when you don't have a healer, wand, scroll, or the diehard feat. If you want a heal get a pot or wand. They give a none healer the ability to revive someone when they would not normally be able to. Just because you have not used the does not mean they need changed or replaced. It's nice to be in the middle of a elite quest and revive the cleric to keep the quest from becoming a total wipe.

Dandonk
09-10-2012, 03:42 AM
not sue you are seeing the point of the kits. you can't use pots on others and you can't take pots when your bleeding out. they are there for when you don't have a healer, wand, scroll, or the diehard feat. If you want a heal get a pot or wand. They give a none healer the ability to revive someone when they would not normally be able to. Just because you have not used the does not mean they need changed or replaced. It's nice to be in the middle of a elite quest and revive the cleric to keep the quest from becoming a total wipe.

Just get a couple of aid bracers from korthos. They give 11 temp hp, enough to get everyone up and running again.

Or invest in umd and carry the eternal cure minor wounds wand. DC seems to be 15 or something, many builds can reach this quickly.

The problem with kits is that it has an animation that is fairly long. Much quicker to change to aid bracers and use the clicky on the cleric.

Kits are pointless, IMO. There are better ways to do what they do, and they need a change/buff.

Aurora1979
09-10-2012, 03:44 AM
I have never used one or had one used on me. I dont think I have even heard of one being used until I read your post.



we/ I used to use them all the time if you had no other way to get someone on their feet.

The self sufficency drive is much higher now though then it used to be.

Nowadays if you drop with no healer your most likely going to have to hope you don't bleed out because most of the time people won't stop to loot your corpse let alone administer first aid.

Having said that, most classes could easily flick a few charges off a cure light wand to get you on your feet so I'm not sure the kits are in keeping with the current game.

laurawilder
09-10-2012, 07:09 AM
/not signed

It is/was not the purpose of said items to "heal" but revive. If you get clickies to cast clw all the better, but kits are fine as they are.

They certainly should not be replaced by better pots. If you are spending money in the ddo store on healing your are throwing money away. Hirelings are much more cost effective.

Just like the "heal" and "repair" skills most have no idea how useful it really is and do not put anything into it.

Lastly a 20 in UMD is not a given. The average fighter build would be lucky to hit that at lvl 20 with only 11 skill points placed while leveling and by those levels its almost useless.

Sonos
09-10-2012, 07:20 AM
Just get a couple of aid bracers from korthos.

This. Fastest healer/repair kit in the west.

Dandonk
09-10-2012, 07:37 AM
/not signed

It is/was not the purpose of said items to "heal" but revive. If you get clickies to cast clw all the better, but kits are fine as they are.

They certainly should not be replaced by better pots. If you are spending money in the ddo store on healing your are throwing money away. Hirelings are much more cost effective.

Just like the "heal" and "repair" skills most have no idea how useful it really is and do not put anything into it.

Lastly a 20 in UMD is not a given. The average fighter build would be lucky to hit that at lvl 20 with only 11 skill points placed while leveling and by those levels its almost useless.

The aid bracers from korthos revive people faster, with no fail chance or interrupt chance.

Heal and Repair skills give a fairly minor amount of HP back at shrines. A wand, scroll, aura/burst or using lowlevel unmetaed cure spells with sp taken from Echoes of Pwer are all other ways to gain health that do not cost stat points (for int) or skill points, that could be used elsewhere for better use.

Sad, but true.

The best use of heal and repair skills are for dialogue options atm. They seriously need a revamp.

LeadHero5
09-10-2012, 11:53 AM
I would say that the kits are good the way they are and represent what a non twink 1st to 3rd level character would have. I wish more people would have them or at least one of the several alternatives available at low level(cure light cloak or aid bracers). Several times I have bleed out while the rest of the party stood around scratching their heads. I also have been the only one able to save someone. Nothing makes you the hero like running up and getting a cleric revived. They used to always drop in the little chest behind the bar in 'The Collaborator'.

Feralthyrtiaq
09-10-2012, 01:45 PM
I played through the first NWN on a Gnome Wizard following around the Double Axe using Horc Barbarian using the Healing Kits to actually keep the barb healed.

I'd be REALLY happy if you could use a Heal Kit on a non-incapped character to heal like 1d4+X (power of kit) + Heal Skill

So Heal Kit +1 would revive an incapped character back to 1 hp or Heal a non-incapped character for 2-5hp + Users Heal Skill.

psteen1
09-10-2012, 01:51 PM
I played through the first NWN on a Gnome Wizard following around the Double Axe using Horc Barbarian using the Healing Kits to actually keep the barb healed.

I'd be REALLY happy if you could use a Heal Kit on a non-incapped character to heal like 1d4+X (power of kit) + Heal Skill

So Heal Kit +1 would revive an incapped character back to 1 hp or Heal a non-incapped character for 2-5hp + Users Heal Skill.

yes. this is what they should do

Alavatar
09-10-2012, 01:56 PM
(a) I have not used those kits since the Level Cap was L10.

(b) I have stopped investing in Heal / Repair skills since the Level Cap was L12.

/signed to make things useful

FestusHood
09-10-2012, 02:12 PM
Sort of related to one of the points mentioned in the original post, I don't think it would be game breaking to add some kind of enhanced heal pots to the game, just let them use the same drop mechanic as the major mnemonic pots. I would even go so far as to make it a full blown potion of heal, like the scroll. I imagine one of the reasons they don't do this is because it would devalue somewhat the silver flame pots. With a relatively low drop rate, you're not likely to have all that many of them.

CrackedIce
09-10-2012, 02:33 PM
First time I played DDO and survived to the first shrine in slayer I was like yes! now I can rest and get my hp up and be fighting in no time. Ya well that didnt happen and I later died...true story

Anyway, I later found out thats what the heal and repair skills were for and I did not and still do not understand this. So only some classes can put points there, to recieve some hp back from a rest shrine, while the divine and arcane casters recieve all there sp for free w/.o pts being spent in skills, no way.

Allowing rest shrines to replenish both sp and hp would greatly help this issue.

As far as Heal and Repair skills, I feel that they should add to the benefit of heal and repair potions...like an extra point per heal and repair. This would allow those characters who want to add a little more survivability by spending skill points to get that. It would also make said potions more viable for self-healing.

What do you guys think?

licho
09-10-2012, 02:40 PM
I agree that healing kits and repair (as well as associated skills) are useless. They actually make gameplay worse since they take place in inventory so i need to pay attencion if if i dont loot trash.

Even for stabilize purpose they are useless, since same job does aid clikie or rage clikie (at higher leveles).
Also correct me if im wrong, but dont WF have inherit diehard?


However, i would rather see them made useful, as well as repair/heal skills. This skills should be reworked:
- You can perform stabilize check as usual.
- You can use it on alive member or self to restore 1d20+skill value hp.
- Additionally depending of your roll you remove some of the harmful effects, like: DC 20 remove blidness DC30 Remove Disease DC 40 Remove poison DC50 Remove stat dmg DC60 Restore single neg level.
- Repair skill does same but for WF (or construct essence dudes)
- Additionally repair skill have passive protcting from equipment dmg.
- The action animation is keep long, so it will not be a safe way to heal in battle. (more like after encounter recovery)


As for some more serious pots:
I see the place in game for cure/repair critical pots, which should avaiable in vendors. Carrying 500 cure serious pots is kinda weird.

The should add some extended vigor pots, which will over 3 min restore 60-300HP in ticks (preatty much like tasty ham). There would be several sizes of this - similar to mnemonic pots - and they will drop in chest or end reward list in stack of 5. They will not stack with each other, but will stack with druid or bard abilities. This would again serve the sustain purpose and healing outside the combat. So the full melee group will not be a drinking contest.

Vestriel
09-10-2012, 04:57 PM
I agree with Licho's suggestions. Heal/repair kits don't need to be replaced with potions, they just need to be improved a little. Restoring some hp based on the relevant skills is a perfect solution IMO, as long as their activation time is long enough that they are not overpowered. Five seconds seems reasonable, but could be adjusted upwards if necessary.

1jazzz
09-11-2012, 01:33 AM
or.... they could add more diverse usage for them eg.

trap craft

healing kit + noise traps + magical parts

positive energy probe
lasts 30 secs
will casts mass cure every 10 secs on itself

----------------
repair kit + empty vials + mechanical parts

deconstruction grenades

redspecter23
09-11-2012, 01:41 AM
I'd like to see heal/repair kits modified so that they are used for healing and not just reviving. Have the heal amount based on your appropriate skill and make it instantaneous so you can toss a quick heal to save someone if needed, but have a long cooldown on it so it's not a primary source of healing. Maybe 1 minute. The original purpose is restored without making pots or other sources of healing obsolete. If they want to stay closer to the pnp roots, make it so it can't raise your hp above the half way mark so you can use it to prevent a death blow, but not to top off.