PDA

View Full Version : New Tomes for Old Raids



Cyr
09-06-2012, 01:42 PM
Old raids are dead now. If they do not have an epic option no one runs them and even if they do lots of them are barely run.

Basically the loot from them is not worth running for any longer.

So my loot ideas to add more incentive to run raids...


Cannith crafting speciality recipes (see my cannith crafting suggestions thread for my ideas along this path)
New Tomes for Raids

Stack with every other tome except themselves for all powers granted
epic upgrade tome for raids with epic/non epic options requiring previous one to get next one (works like upgrade tomes for learning tomes mechanics wise)
One per raid
drop in raid chest
always appear on the 20th reward list as an extra item on the list
grant small power boosts to a variety of things or to one universally useful thing making them worth getting for any toon
Is kept through TRs as all tomes normally are and are applied at the appropriate ML.
ML = Raid Level on Normal -2.

Examples


Incomplete Notes of the Ritual of Acsension (Tome Type) ML: 15- This tome permanently grants +10 Spell Power Negative Energy, +10 Spell Power Positive Energy, +5 light resistance, and +5 HP. Drops from abbot raid.
Tome of The Titan's Origins (Tome Type) ML: 10- This tome permanently grants +10 Spell Power Repair/decon, +2 Repair Skill, and +5% fort bypass versus constructs. Drops from Titan raid.
Tome of the Demon Queen's Fury (Tome type) ML: 10 - This tome grants +5% offhand hook chance, +10 Spell Power Acid, and +10 Spell Power Alignment Based.
Epic Upgrade Tome of the Demon Queen's Fury (Tome type) ML: 20 - This tome upgrades a Tome of the Demon Queen's Fury to an Epic Tome of the Demon Queen's Fury. The spell power bonues are increased to +15 from +10 and 1 point of chaotic damage is added to all of your physical attacks and all of your attacks bypass chaotic DR. Drops from epic dq.
Transcript of Harry's Trial (Tome Type) ML: 18 - This tome grants +5 chaotic energy resistance, +2 Intimidate, and +2 Diplomacy. Drops from ToD.
General Sulo's Battle Plans (Tome Type) ML 16 - This tome grants +1 evil energy damage to all of your physical attacks and all of your attacks bypass evil DR, +10 Spell Power Electric, and +5% Fortification. Drops for VoD.
Ramblings of a Madman (Tome Type) ML 16 - This tome grants +5 lawful energy resistance, +1 DC to your chaotic damage typed spells, and +3 PRR.

Missing_Minds
09-06-2012, 01:51 PM
rather than create new tome drops...

wouldn't it be better to create new crafting recipes that use raid loot to encourage the old raids to be run? This would give the loot value again.

Now granted, this now goes back to the whole chattering ring issue, to a degree. But if was to be used for such crafting of new tomes as you have suggested I don't see the issue.

Now granted, we need to be able first to probably disjunct the raid item into "essense of raid loot" that is BtA that way your crafter could always access the "raid loot" unlike how raid loot is BtC so your crafter may not be able to access it.

I don't know... but I think the basic idea you suggest does have merit.

Cyr
09-06-2012, 01:57 PM
rather than create new tome drops...

wouldn't it be better to create new crafting recipes that use raid loot to encourage the old raids to be run? This would give the loot value again.

Now granted, this now goes back to the whole chattering ring issue, to a degree. But if was to be used for such crafting of new tomes as you have suggested I don't see the issue.

Now granted, we need to be able first to probably disjunct the raid item into "essense of raid loot" that is BtA that way your crafter could always access the "raid loot" unlike how raid loot is BtC so your crafter may not be able to access it.

I don't know... but I think the basic idea you suggest does have merit.

Yeah, I have that as the first on my list of suggestions and lots of examples of that sort of thing in another thread :)

I certainly do not mind the idea of a recipe instead of the tome dropping directly in the raid either.

Something like...

Essence of the Titan: Requires one titan raid item (any one)
Tome of the Titan's Origins: Requires 3 essence of the Titan, X yellow dragonshards, and some amount of essences...

Ranncore
09-06-2012, 02:09 PM
This assumes that Devs care about whether players run the old raids or not.

I don't think Turbine really cares about keeping old players right now. It's no big secret that lots of them are leaving.

They're pushing out new content with new, easy to acquire loot that is sometimes far more powerful than the old loot.

I don't think they care whether their players stay or go - that's the nature of the F2P model. Buy it once, own it forever. The game doesn't need replay value. All they need to do is push for new customers.

They're pushing out content that is easy and rewarding to run through for the first time, without any concern of replayability. TRing and the Epic Destiny grind, plus a handful of absurdly long grinds for items exist in the game to keep the fanbois working for something who will never leave no matter how terrible the game becomes.

I honestly don't think the devs care whether or not the content that we've already paid for is worth revisiting. We care - we want to go back to the old raids we enjoy and get something worth keeping out of there - but there just isn't any profit in it for Turbine. And that's the bottom line.

Missing_Minds
09-06-2012, 02:21 PM
This assumes that Devs care about whether players run the old raids or not.

They do, if only in the aspect of guest passes and selling content to new players.

New players (at least in one age) will ask vets what they should buy. How often do you seriously hear anyone say "buy Twilight forge! It's great!!!"

redspecter23
09-06-2012, 02:28 PM
I like the idea of new loot in old raids that isn't necessarily gear (which is inevitably obsoleted as power creep sets in). I'm not sure that having a specific tome type per raid is the right way to go. I'd rather see a series of generic tomes with similar powers that you have listed, that can drop in a variety of raids so it keeps you coming back for more. Perhaps one type of tome drops in Titan, Von and Reaver. Another type drops in Reaver, Abbot and DQ. This diversifies your raiding options when looking for a specific tome and keeps more raids run. In this way, I may get a tome from Reaver, but it doesn't knock Reaver off my "to do" list as I could still get other tomes from that raid.

teh_meh
09-06-2012, 02:33 PM
This assumes that Devs care about whether players run the old raids or not.

I don't think Turbine really cares about keeping old players right now. It's no big secret that lots of them are leaving.

They're pushing out new content with new, easy to acquire loot that is sometimes far more powerful than the old loot.

I don't think they care whether their players stay or go - that's the nature of the F2P model. Buy it once, own it forever. The game doesn't need replay value. All they need to do is push for new customers.

They're pushing out content that is easy and rewarding to run through for the first time, without any concern of replayability. TRing and the Epic Destiny grind, plus a handful of absurdly long grinds for items exist in the game to keep the fanbois working for something who will never leave no matter how terrible the game becomes.

I honestly don't think the devs care whether or not the content that we've already paid for is worth revisiting. We care - we want to go back to the old raids we enjoy and get something worth keeping out of there - but there just isn't any profit in it for Turbine. And that's the bottom line.

I used to feel like this. I was a big time gear grinder. Now I play for fun and improving my skills.

I like the idea of creating new uses for old named loot...whether they be converted into new crafting recipes or deconned for House C crafting or simply hung up in a virtual trophy room we'll have some day.

I know Feather is quoted as saying something like "the game is moving forward, the players need to as well" (implying the old raids are being abandoned) but this can change. It really wouldn't be too hard to implement some simple changes to breath new life into the older content. Don't rule it out forever.

janave
09-07-2012, 01:44 AM
Ohboy, this gonna get so much flame per second.

How about making the droprates adjusted to the level you run the raids? Like power leveling: If you run it 4 levels above, no loots for ya.

Loot adjustment per characters level in party.

Raid run:
@level ---- x 2.5 Loot drop rate
@+1 ---- x 1,25 drops
@+2 ---- x .75 drops
@+3 ---- x .33 drops
@+4 ---- x .1 or null named drops and tomes

This would make so many at level VoN/DQ-s thats fun to see.

azrael4h
09-07-2012, 06:10 AM
Ohboy, this gonna get so much flame per second.

How about making the droprates adjusted to the level you run the raids? Like power leveling: If you run it 4 levels above, no loots for ya.

Loot adjustment per characters level in party.

Raid run:
@level ---- x 2.5 Loot drop rate
@+1 ---- x 1,25 drops
@+2 ---- x .75 drops
@+3 ---- x .33 drops
@+4 ---- x .1 or null named drops and tomes

This would make so many at level VoN/DQ-s thats fun to see.

Actually, this would simply kill off the remaining raids being run. Period.

The place where this falls flat is the relative speed of leveling compared to the timers. You level way past VoN and DQ without ever needing to set foot in them, even on a TR2. VoD and HoX are a little better, but thy have crappy loot anyway so no reason to run them in the first place.

Basically, the only way this could possibly work is if you were guaranteed the loot you wanted in one run. Since you are not, you will most likely outlevel any raid long before getting anything (60+ runs of DQ, still no Torc).

This goes for basically all content, not just raids, with the exceptions of a TR2+ at 18-20. You level too fast to allow such a mechanic to exist. With this in place, no one could ever make another GS item again, as they'll outlevel the Vale quests before even getting the mats to make their first blanks, forget the 20+ Shrouds needed for the typical dual shards.

Killing off the raid scene isn't the point of the thread.

grayham
09-07-2012, 06:15 AM
@Cyr

Great idea. Anything that could breathe life into neglected and barely ran content is a winner in my book. I literally just posted this thread (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=391528) too in the spirit of yours if a different approach.