View Full Version : Armor pass suggestion

09-05-2012, 08:04 PM
I think it's time that ray spells now do a touch attack roll to hit,

My reason for suggesting this are as follows.

It will help lesser the gap between melees and sorcs, wiz and to a much lesser extent clerics and fvs.
It will bring back some of the challenge to questing.

Before the ray targeting update quite a few updates ago rays missed once in a while due to the targets moving around but when they did hit they did a nice amount of damage. Now they always hit because they seem to target extremely quickly and move faster than anything can move away from them.

counter arguments I am expecting and my responses.

Casters need use mana to cast spells and it should always work for that reason.
-Casters are treated quite nicely these days with a large amount of SLA's and echo's of power, I hardly see a caster I run with be unable to cast and if they do run out it's right before a shrine.

It will make ray spells unusable
-You may think so but since the armor pass update things have become extremely easy to hit with anything that targets ac. Also a touch attack ignores armor class gained from actual armor although this isn't needed at the moment and it could simply be the wizards attack bonus rolled vs mob ac.

Benefits of this
would help to start closing the gap between melee's and casters
would hopefully add some more variety to prepared spells
will bring some challenge back to quests.
will be a non invasive way to lower sorc and to a lesser extent wizards damage
would add a nice perk to tensor's now that it doesn't stop casting

Adapting to some new spells may take a while(for the people that up and stop using rays)
brings some challenge back to quests

List of spells that would be affected if this was implemented.

Scorching ray
Niac's cold ray
Polar Ray
Prismatic ray
Prismatic strike
ray of exhaustion
ray of enfeeblement
salt ray
nimbus of light
searing light
Necrotic ray
Energy Drain

(if I missed any sorry)

Flame away.

09-05-2012, 09:36 PM
Rays can still miss moving targets.

09-05-2012, 11:33 PM

Seriously, the reasons that caster<--->melee has so huge gap is the deviation from the ruleset, more extreme deviation just leads to even harder balancing.

1. Hitpoints scaling up too heavily. See #4.
2. Spellpoints system vs Slotting Memorize system.
3.You can cast any amount of any tier spell! < this is pretty much the worst concept-wise. totally breaks the rules to support OPdome for casters.
4. While melee gain +1-3 avg damage per every few levels. Casters gain % based damage which scales up much better for later levels.
5. Spell scaling, versatility and inherent stuff per level. You get spells for free (some of em). You can use lvl1 spells at endgame. As a melee try to use your lvl4-6 weapons at endgame :).

Your idea is rather game breaking sorry. Ray spells are but the least concern, endless aoe instantkills, cheap sp regen options, are the real concern for class balance.

Pls dont fix bad game design with more bad game design, thanks.

09-06-2012, 06:28 AM
Does ray spells are the problem?
For me ray spells are balanced, so there is no need to toy with them. If something is not broken dont try to fix that.
Moreoever if devs try to nerf them that will only result in switching from them to other. From the list only desintargation is the only "must use" other are skipable.

If you want to really close the gap between melee and caster:
- Longer the cooldown on instakill spells
- Add save on DoTs.
+ Give melee easier access to ranged combat (remove stupid bow strenght feat).
+ Add more variety to melee self healing
+ Give melee more variety into actions performed: more tactical feats, some new class abilities.
+ Unnerf vorpals (to more like 3000HP)
+ Unnerf stat damagers (make the stat lose last longer)
+ Make CC fixes scale with BAB.

As poster above wrote: melee need to fight for every +1 to dmg, casters damage is a multiplier. It would be ok if melee got something funny instead. But they dont.

09-06-2012, 06:40 AM
Rays can still miss moving targets.

This. I miss on long distance ray spells all the time. I miss when the mob is right in front of me because I'm not facing it.

09-06-2012, 07:11 AM
While in PnP, ray spells did need touch attacks, it was generally just a formality. There were very few opponents that had a meaningful Touch AC. Even with the worst BAB progression, you generally missed only on a very bad roll.

With DDO's AC system, I'm guessing it would be similar. This change would not achieve what it was intended to. A 5% chance of missing would not make a meaningful difference to Ray spells, and Ray spells are not the reason that the caster/melee disparity exists. (Might be worth applying concealment miss chances to ray spells though.)

If you applied the PnP rules properly, it might even end up as a buff to ray spells, since spells with a roll to hit are valid for crits and sneak attacks.