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View Full Version : A buff/nerf for the downtrodden Divines.



Karavek
08-30-2012, 10:50 AM
I like no few of my fellows have been turned off of late largely because of both factual evidence and less definable "gut feeling" instincts when it comes to divine casters. especially light/positive energy specced casters and melee/medic type builds.

from the fact the cleric enhancment for buffing light and positive only start at 20 spell power to arcane casters 40 for elements, to the weapon slot in the form of a staff becoming virtually the only viable tool for buffing spells limiting melee weapon wielding healing clerics and fvs. It all leaves a sense that the Devs are trying to force us to the back of the bus and even give that seat up if we wish to do anything other then play nanny for the ones actually playing the game and having fun.

For a long while I have agreed that healing can be almost OP and for a time was virtually a must have in most content( until we learned it all by rote) I have made some pretty controversial suggestions like dropping healing shrines, and make items like ham with reasonable cooldowns but require you to sit still for a few minutes be a viable and more immersive way to rest and recover while redesigning dungeons around casters using a single blue bar unless they use pots.

However the way it was done in the update has done more harm then help to cleric players and the game in general. Once again I see far more clerics when I pug willing if often sadly willing and even forced into a pure healer role, even in undead heavy quests.

Now I may have some facts wrong, but if I understand it correctly, currently Spell power effects certain positive energy spells like heal, and light dmg spells in general are only at 50%. Ive also heard meta magics are only working on positive spells when used defensively and not in anyway when used to do things like hurt undead. This is so wrong as a Heal spell has long been a classic way for a powerful cleric to drop a powerful undead too strong to be turned.

If all the above is even close to accurate, then my suggestion which is both a nerf and buff in one may I feel be the answer.

Allow every character at creation or perhaps through a minor quest similar to the dragonmark one that gives us our free feat exchange, pick a religious faction. Be it racial or one of the general ones as appropriate.

Then make it so all cure magic effects those of differing faiths at only 75%, while making those of the same faith operate at 100% and make those of the same race/faith gain a 125% effect. Do this rather then the imbalanced spell power lines and certain spells not getting any significant buffing from spell power.

This would also help the currently downtrodden WF( cant even believe I am feeling sorry for them but I do and this comes from a Drow fan who has had to listen to fleshie caster insults for years) as then They would heal themselves( obviously you count as your own race and faith for purposes of the inherent effect) and other toasters very effectively( although I have long argued the lord of blades would logically grant his forged repair not cure magic but hey so much for logic)

Would this form of RP spiritual and racial preference hurt the game? I doubt it, long run most will gravitate toward the Host as most clerics,pals etc take it for its awesome heal click at lvl 6. Likewise it will allow forged to count more reliably upon those who serve their god faithfully for healing.

finally considering adding some epic gems for red slots that can increase spell power for each line, so if instead of DR breaking those toasters want to slot a huge positive energy or light energy spell power to their ESOS could.

But what it would do is allow them to break up our healing enough the current reasoning the devs gave us for the spell power inequalities between arcane and divine would be less needed, and still create a need for good role play synergy when grouping for challenging content.

Some additional perks could be things like those of the silver flame receiving some form of benefit against or from evil outsiders etc.

The fact is those of the same faith traditionally flock together, and faith when magnified is the most powerful force in D&D.

Kinerd
08-30-2012, 01:53 PM
Honestly, I think it's great that staffs are the caster weapon du jour. There's really not that much difference in the melee DPS a caster melee was doing: it was subpar then and it's subpar now.

To your suggestions:
1. Anything that has people stand around not doing anything is terrible game design. This applies to healing hams and raid boss fights.
2. I for one went Elf on my cleric because Elves are pretty, and continue to use the Undying resurrection thingie. I would not be terribly psyched that I suddenly got a 25% healing penalty.
3. Comparing arcanes to divines just doesn't work for me. The best arcane DPS spells almost never overkill, the best divine healing spells almost always overkill. My Mass Heal got better with u14: half of Devotion is way better than none of Superior Devotion 6 or none of Superior Ardor 8.

Finally, I also disagree with your proposal on its real world reasoning. Consider Jerusalem after the Muslim conquest and before the Crusades: a vibrant, peaceful community of Jews, Muslims, and Christians. Cooperation isn't determined by denomination.

Karavek
08-30-2012, 02:21 PM
Honestly, I think it's great that staffs are the caster weapon du jour. There's really not that much difference in the melee DPS a caster melee was doing: it was subpar then and it's subpar now.

To your suggestions:
1. Anything that has people stand around not doing anything is terrible game design. This applies to healing hams and raid boss fights.
2. I for one went Elf on my cleric because Elves are pretty, and continue to use the Undying resurrection thingie. I would not be terribly psyched that I suddenly got a 25% healing penalty.
3. Comparing arcanes to divines just doesn't work for me. The best arcane DPS spells almost never overkill, the best divine healing spells almost always overkill. My Mass Heal got better with u14: half of Devotion is way better than none of Superior Devotion 6 or none of Superior Ardor 8.

Finally, I also disagree with your proposal on its real world reasoning. Consider Jerusalem after the Muslim conquest and before the Crusades: a vibrant, peaceful community of Jews, Muslims, and Christians. Cooperation isn't determined by denomination.

while in the real world religions get along fairly well, this is rarely the case in a D&D setting. In fact entire chapters in cleric related splat books, and articles in dragon often stressed that a well role played character of faith is always trying to convert those around them to their god, or at least undermining the faith they have. This is because in D&D gods are physical beings who draw power from their faithful. Your god literally is stronger if you expand the flock and weaker if you take their followers either through conversion or blood. Even good gods rarely get along outside of their pantheons and even tend to conflict abit with those within. Thor and Zeus are great examples of good aligned gods whose followers push their faith as superior quite openly and will rarely lend their powers to those who refuse to convert.

And being undying court is actually rather common for elven clergy especially in PD groups as that low lvl rez is likely to be that much more valued. I imagine it would actually strengthen drow and elven clerics as well as non clerics who keep to the faith. Imagine how great a undying cleric would have it if his whole group was a flock of faithful. I think it would strengthen an aspect of RP concept choice, while giving the devs an alternate way to put some limits on healing without actual game mechanics like spell power not working universally.

As for staves being caster tools, i am all for arcane caster staves, but divines should be finding faith related named weapons that act as both powerful weapons and caster boosters.

Much as the house C challenge caster gear all have effects valuable for non casters as well, there should be weapons equally useful for caster/weapon user builds.