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RS-Makk
08-28-2012, 01:21 PM
Just wondering - what are current issues with Shadowdancer (stuff not working or not working right)?

Also, what are things working right, but 'underwhelming'?

Rauven
08-28-2012, 02:40 PM
Off the top of my head:

When using Shrouding Strike, Shadow Charges don't accumulate unless you have something that uses charges, e.g. Cloak of Shadow. This prevents you from gaining the dodge benefit from Untouchable.
Max Shadow Charges are currently capped at 7. You should get 2 charges per tier of Shrouding Strike, plus 1 charge for each of the following that you have: Cloak of Shadow, Shadow Manipulation, Consume and Shadow Form for a max possible of 10 charges. If you take any one of these you'll gain +1 Shadow Charge over the total you should have for your tier of Shrouding Strike.
When using Executioner's Strike you get the +X[w] damage, crit range and multiplier but the chance to kill the target does not work.
Consume does not show it's DC and some have reported that either the DC is low (resulting in frequent failed uses) or the effect doesn't properly apply.
Oncoming Darkness, while it works, remains extremely underwhelming for an epic moment.
Shadow Training IV's Shadow Walk clicky has a 1 min duration. IIRC pre-U15 it had a 15 min duration.


Everything else that I've used seems to work. You no longer lose Shadow Charges when you move through doors, dimension doors, change instances, etc (other than leaving a completed quest, then you're reset to 0). This means that you can go into an explorer zone and build up charges prior to entering a quest.

RS-Makk
08-28-2012, 03:58 PM
Thanks!

Do you also retain the shadow charges when you rest? (so you really only lose them when you die or reset a quest?)

Rauven
08-28-2012, 05:09 PM
You don't lose charges when you die, you do lose charges when you rest. If you build up charges in an explorer area, I like the Cannith Manufactury, they seem to stick around indefinitely unless you hang out in a tavern or log out.

RS-Makk
08-29-2012, 08:08 AM
Thanks much for the info.

Kind of a bummer it 'clears' when you rest - that means no charges for boss fights if I need to rest to get my counters back up for action boosts.

Kilnedric
08-30-2012, 09:46 AM
I would like to continue bringing attention to this bug.

Detailed here: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=381352

Shadowdancer would probably be my primary ED on my Artificer, but due to this bug I rarely use it, and when I do, it's not even speced with Shrouding Shot because of this bug. So I'm missing so much of what should make this the best destiny for me.

Tid12
08-30-2012, 12:29 PM
Shadowdancer is the most broken and underwhelming Epic destiny at the moment. You are better off with something else.

Rauven
08-30-2012, 01:15 PM
Shadowdancer is the most broken and underwhelming Epic destiny at the moment. You are better off with something else.

My 2 assassin's and 1 mechanic all disagree with you. But to each their own. Do I wish some things about shadow dancer were a little bit more whelming, sure. Oncoming Darkness is pretty much a waste. I'd like for Executioner's Strike to be fixed. But overall I like what I get from SD. The bonus sneak attack dice adds constant dmg to my attacks against most mobs. Permanent 25% incorporeal miss chance is very nice. And the level 5 innate that removes sneak attack immunity has been quite fun.

Tid12
08-30-2012, 01:21 PM
My 2 assassin's and 1 mechanic all disagree with you. But to each their own. Do I wish some things about shadow dancer were a little bit more whelming, sure. Oncoming Darkness is pretty much a waste. I'd like for Executioner's Strike to be fixed. But overall I like what I get from SD. The bonus sneak attack dice adds constant dmg to my attacks against most mobs. Permanent 20% incorporeal miss chance is very nice. And the level 5 innate that removes sneak attack immunity has been quite fun.

The innate level 5 is pretty much what SD has. And the 25% miss chance. Everything else is broken or beyond ridicolous.

Executioner strike is broken.
Consume's DC is broken.
Dark Imbuement: 2d6 damage for an epic moment, really? really?
Meld Into Darkness is broken with Dodge capped.
Cloak of Shadow is situationally useful and not that much.

These are supposed to be the main abilities of these destiny and they are broken for 2 months now (and +, they are broken since Closed Beta with no Dev answering to our request to fix those. Without Genasi, I'm not sure they will ever be fixed)

6d6 SA and level 5 innate is fun and all this destiny has. Also, having Shadow form with all these Priestess throwing Divine Punishment isn't fun.

Your 2 assassin's and 1 mechanic should try FotW if you haven't already :) If you have and find that SD is better, to each their own I guess. The point that this destiny is so broken that it's getting ridicolous stays thou.

Rauven
08-30-2012, 01:46 PM
The innate level 5 is pretty much what SD has. And the 25% miss chance. Everything else is broken or beyond ridicolous.

Executioner strike is broken. The chance to execute on use is broken, everything else works
Consume's DC is broken. The DC is not listed but the ability can be used. I said above that some have reported issues, I have used it with some success but I would like to know the DC.
Dark Imbuement: 2d6 damage for an epic moment, really? really? I agree, Oncoming Darkness is a joke.
Meld Into Darkness is broken with Dodge capped.
Cloak of Shadow is situationally useful and not that much.My biggest issue with Cloak of Shadow is its cost. If it cost 1 point instead of 2 it would be fine.

These are supposed to be the main abilities of these destiny and they are broken for 2 months now (and +, they are broken since Closed Beta with no Dev answering to our request to fix those. Without Genasi, I'm not sure they will ever be fixed)

6d6 SA and level 5 innate is fun and all this destiny has. Also, having Shadow form with all these Priestess throwing Divine Punishment isn't fun.

Your 2 assassin's and 1 mechanic should try FotW if you haven't already :) If you have and find that SD is better, to each their own I guess. The point that this destiny is so broken that it's getting ridicolous stays thou.


My comments above in cyan.

I did try FotW and twisted tier 3 primal shout and plan to twist fast healing once I move some stuff around and free up a twist.

Kinerd
08-30-2012, 02:08 PM
Shadowdancer is the most broken and underwhelming Epic destiny at the moment. You are better off with something else. ... These are supposed to be the main abilities of these destiny and they are broken for 2 months now (and +, they are broken since Closed Beta with no Dev answering to our request to fix those. Without Genasi, I'm not sure they will ever be fixed)To me, the 6d6 is the main ability and the various (Twistable) abilities are mostly fluff, because 6d6 is A LOT of damage. I haven't seen a single Epic Moment that I'm bothering with on my melee, divine, or arcane characters, it doesn't bother me if the rogue one is lousy, too.
My 2 assassin's and 1 mechanic all disagree with you. But to each their own. Do I wish some things about shadow dancer were a little bit more whelming, sure. Oncoming Darkness is pretty much a waste. I'd like for Executioner's Strike to be fixed. But overall I like what I get from SD. The bonus sneak attack dice adds constant dmg to my attacks against most mobs. Permanent 25% incorporeal miss chance is very nice. And the level 5 innate that removes sneak attack immunity has been quite fun.Everyone knows you have to go to Europe to get whelmed.

Tid12
08-30-2012, 02:19 PM
My comments above in cyan.

I did try FotW and twisted tier 3 primal shout and plan to twist fast healing once I move some stuff around and free up a twist.

- The main feature of Executioner's Strike is broken. +1[W] and +1 crit threat and range is nice but it's not what I'm looking at for this ability.
- Consume's DC is broken. I've seen like 1 mob consumed in EE and I've used it everytime it's off. I've like +18 modifier to INT and if Consume's DC is like every other ability it should be: 20 + Half char level + INT modifier = 50 Consume DC and only 1 mob per quest consumed? It's broken, show us the DC caculation and then we will talk about it.
- Indeed, 2 point for this so-so ability is lame.

You should try twisting Sense Weakness (if you haven't it already) if you are so set in stone about SD. It's awesome.

Tid12
08-30-2012, 02:22 PM
To me, the 6d6 is the main ability and the various (Twistable) abilities are mostly fluff, because 6d6 is A LOT of damage. I haven't seen a single Epic Moment that I'm bothering with on my melee, divine, or arcane characters, it doesn't bother me if the rogue one is lousy, too.Everyone knows you have to go to Europe to get whelmed.

Having an Epic Destiny just for 6d6 is lame. I agree, 6d6 is a lot of damage but this is supposed to be an epic destiny. If I can have a destiny that offers a lot more than 6d6 (like FotW), I'll take it ASAP.

And LD and FotW epic moments are awesome for melees. The casters ones should get a revamp also, I agree.

Qezuzu
08-30-2012, 02:33 PM
6d6 SA and level 5 innate is fun and all this destiny has. Also, having Shadow form with all these Priestess throwing Divine Punishment isn't fun.

Nah.

+6 Assassinate DC is huge. I know it can be twisted, that's not the point. +6d6 sneak attack damage is also huge, and can't be twisted.

+6 to attack when flanking is useful. +1 to all skills is useful. -20% to threat is handy. Full movement while stealthed is also useful in many quests. 3% doublestrike is good. Free DDoor is just awesome. Diplomacy that uses the hide skill is extremely useful when you have +100 hide. Bypass 15% fortification is also good. Immunity to negative levels is just incredible. Dark Elusion, render anything vulnerable to sneak attacks, is an absolute godsend.

Shadowform is awesome. 25% miss chance is a lot. Cloak of Shadows helps against light damage, as does the Epic Philarian Mirror Cloak. Combined with Untouchable and you have a good amount of defense. Improved Invisibility is also worth using, though it only gives 30 seconds of Displacement.

And then there's Shadow Manipulation, which is easily the most underrated ability of any Epic Destiny. It has the same "don't have to even be near your target" thing as the Savant abilities did. While this is likely to be fixed, just look how long it took to fix the Savants. Makes an entire room focus on one disposable ally, making Epic Elite a million times easier.

Despite a few of its abilities being broken, and the epic moment being ridiculously weak, it's still an awesome Destiny. Yes, I have tried a lot of other destinies on my Rogue, and capped them, but Shadowdancer is still the best, for Assassins at least.

AlteredState
08-30-2012, 02:46 PM
The mind control one is kinda sweet, very useful for attacking smaller groups.

Tid12
08-30-2012, 02:58 PM
Nah.

+6 Assassinate DC is huge. I know it can be twisted, that's not the point. +6d6 sneak attack damage is also huge, and can't be twisted.

As said, +6 Assassinate DC can be twisted. 6d6 can be replaced with all other stuff from FotW, and all those stuff adds up and ends being even more than 6d6.



+6 to attack when flanking is useful. +1 to all skills is useful. -20% to threat is handy. Full movement while stealthed is also useful in many quests. 3% doublestrike is good. Free DDoor is just awesome. Diplomacy that uses the hide skill is extremely useful when you have +100 hide. Bypass 15% fortification is also good. Immunity to negative levels is just incredible. Dark Elusion, render anything vulnerable to sneak attacks, is an absolute godsend.


+6 to attack isn't bad but with the stuff SD has (if they ever get fixed), you won't have points for it. And even now, they are points wasted imho with +attack isn't what it was used to mean pre u14.

+1 to skills useful? No. With the +5 from Epic Levels, you will have more than enough for everything, even UMD after 1-2 deaths.

-20% threat, I have already -40% (or more, not logged to check at the moment), it's enough to never pull aggro.

Full movement while sthealthed: 5 minute cooldown? A cooldown of an epic moment? No, it isn't useful. Yes, I had fun with it the first two days, now I don't use it anymore.

3% Doublestrike: Forgot about it, one of the few perks this destiny has.

Free DDoor: So-so, nice addition.

15% Fort: Yeah good, twisted for my rogue.

Immunity to neg levels: 2 points for this? Drink a DW pot from the vendor, 20 min. Or a Silver talisman.



Shadowform is awesome. 25% miss chance is a lot. Cloak of Shadows helps against light damage, as does the Epic Philarian Mirror Cloak. Combined with Untouchable and you have a good amount of defense. Improved Invisibility is also worth using, though it only gives 30 seconds of Displacement.

Cloak of Shadow, while in Shadowform, doesn't even absorb all the damage from a Divine Punishment. It lasts for 2 ticks. 25% miss chance is good but it has a big downside with a new pack full of Priestess'.



And then there's Shadow Manipulation, which is easily the most underrated ability of any Epic Destiny. It has the same "don't have to even be near your target" thing as the Savant abilities did. While this is likely to be fixed, just look how long it took to fix the Savants. Makes an entire room focus on one disposable ally, making Epic Elite a million times easier.

Epic elite a milion times easier? Just no. It's useful like Dominate and you don't see many casters using it. And yes, I had it, used it, wasn't impressed, not that bad but not making EE a milion times easier.



Despite a few of its abilities being broken, and the epic moment being ridiculously weak, it's still an awesome Destiny. Yes, I have tried a lot of other destinies on my Rogue, and capped them, but Shadowdancer is still the best, for Assassins at least.

Different Points of View. It's broken and needs to be fixed.

This destiny has: 6d6 SA, +6 DC Assassinate (Twistable), 15% fort bypass (Twistable), 3% Doublestrike and Shadowform.

The EPIC MOMENT is utterly broken and ridicolous. This is supposed to be the end-all be-all but it's more like "You rogues aren't about damage, go disarm traps instead". The 2 instakill abilities DON'T WORK. It needs to be revisited.

Oh and btw, I think you got wrong what I'm saying. This destiny wouldn't be bad if there weren't better options. Fix the broken stuff and I'll actually myself go back to SD.

For now, I'm having fun hitting for 1.2k helpess stuff with FotW as main damage before SA damage.

Kilnedric
08-30-2012, 11:01 PM
Hey guys. I love the friendly debate about whats better in other destinies, but can we keep this thread focused on the Shadowdancer issues. I have the fantastical hope that maybe if it's a good thread focused on the issues, maybe a dev will use it and fix them. ;)

Tid12
08-31-2012, 04:11 AM
Hey guys. I love the friendly debate about whats better in other destinies, but can we keep this thread focused on the Shadowdancer issues. I have the fantastical hope that maybe if it's a good thread focused on the issues, maybe a dev will use it and fix them. ;)

There are threads everywhere about Shadowdancer's issue.

In the Lamannia forum HERE (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=387994), HERE (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=384890), HERE (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=376727&page=8). Should I go on? There are a few also in General Discussion.

I'm posting Shadowdancer's issues after every Update or patch but not Dev ever answered to our questions or anything. All we get is nada, zero.

thomhas_of_mabar
10-09-2012, 09:28 AM
According to ddowiki, this has been fixed as of update 15 patch 1.
Can someone please conform this.


Question:
What is the success rate of this skill and what kind of DEX is required to get a decent success rate?
Is this skill better than assassinate?

Should a strength based rogue take this skill?


Any feedback is appreciated.