PDA

View Full Version : Please make Shiridi champion epic



V_mad_jester_V
08-27-2012, 07:01 PM
I know its an epic destiny BUT, it sorta sucks. I have a heavy repeater build, and well its bout the best option. Legendary dosent work all the great, shadow dancer is better for assassin/acrobat rogues. So the ranged get stuck with Champion.

STay good 7% to do 3d10 extra light damage. Are you serious? volcanic edge for legendary dose 100 + 10d100 for crit with 15 sec cool down timer.
Stay good, stay frosty, and the other offensive stance i cant remember atm need to be combat buttons, with 20-15 sec cool down timers and also should do considerable amount more damage. This is far from an epic like destiny. It'll fit better as a heoric enhancements for rangers/mech rogues/arties. So please bring this ed up to par with the rest of them, cuz honestly you guys really made a terrible one here.

V_mad_jester_V
08-27-2012, 07:12 PM
otto's whistler btw needs to work ALL THE TIME, mobs should not save on a single target ability that dosent state saves needed, and probably no way to raise the chance to proc. its a COMPLETE waste of points to even put into cuz all i've seen is 'save" from ottos whistler. Its total bull, then you have to wait 15 sec to use it again, but by that time the mobs are dead. i spent my money on ed's i want ed's. Thats why their called >epic< destines, not humdrum destines, not heoric destines, but epic. And any one who has used the champion tree should know how useless this tree is.

Stay good dose up to 3d10 dmg? so up to 30 extra good damage, what a laugh.
Stay frosty dose up to 3d20 dmg? so up to 60 extra cold damage, again what a laugh
prism dose up to 2d10 dmg? so up to 20 dmg random, and yet again a joke

volanic edge, the thunder hammer, and all those in legendary dose 100+ damage. while the champion stances only gives you 7% to proc? JOKE YOU GUYS ARE FRIGGEN JOKERS!

These stances should be able to be activated all at the same time if you guys are going to insist on keeping this idiotic tree the same, cuz other wise whats the point of having this as a ranged.

This is the only ranged tree, you can take fate singer but i already worked through legendary to get to champion. And im running outta epic quest to farm my ed's. Please take this waste of your time of a epic dest, and make it what it should be EPIC. Ty

/end angry rant about crappy epic destiny that could potentially be good for all ranged players.

wax_on_wax_off
08-27-2012, 07:47 PM
Volcanic Edge does 100 FIRE damage every 15 seconds with extra damage on critical or vorpal.
Stay Good does 3d20 LIGHT damage, 7% of the time or 2.205 damage/hit AND CHANGES YOUR DAMAGE TO GOOD.

There is little doubt that being about to change Pinion into a DR breaker makes Stay Good vastly superior to Volcanic Edge.

For a crossbow build I'd go with Shadowdancer actually, the epic moment is really strong for ranged builds (10d6 AoE, 30% of the time) and you should have a high intelligence to make use of the DC related abilities, choosing between Consume and Oncoming Darkness is tough though.

Prism stance has a 7% chance of 2d10 random ability damage, 1d100 random damage and another random effect - some of which are really good for CC purposes. I'm not sure if the ability damage is valuable but if it works you'd expect that when the ability damage procs that many enemies will have 2-3 stats below 20 giving a decent chance of incapping them for autocrit damage. 1d100 damage, 7% of the time is 3.5 average damage which is like a free pure good being applied to your weapon and in the expansion pack most of the drow don't seem to have resistances so you get the full force of that. Not sure how good Double Rainbow is but there's a pretty interesting list of effects that are possible.

Seems possible that this ED could use improvement but at least most of the abilities are working unlike many of the abilities in many of the other destinies and iirc something is not wai that is actually benefiting players (seems you can have stay frosty and stay good or prism active at the same time somehow though that may have been fixed by now).

I do know that when I have this destiny active (currently level 4) and am not being lazy that I'm competitive in the kill counts on my arcane archer despite playing with some of the best players in this game so maybe it isn't the destiny that is lacking?

MattiG
08-27-2012, 08:01 PM
I would have TR'd out of my monkcher if not for Shiradi.

V_mad_jester_V
08-27-2012, 08:12 PM
the only damage i typically see is the force damage granted to you from being champion. I am not level 3 in the champion tree almost level 4. My damage with a cross bow is 30 less then an arti build. Most artis i talk to do 60-70 dmg per bolt meaning 180-210 dmg per burst. I do 50-60 dmg per bolt so 150-180 per burst.

Also i dont see any gold damage applied in stay good stance, only the occasional 30 ish damage it dose, but not often. It dosent break any dr ever from what i can tell. I wouldnt be so bad off if they did something like each stance dose a gaurenteed amount of damage every time not 7% chance, and would make any weapon you hold pure good/cold/random (random being a damage type not weapon type held so prism would be the only exception).

still doesnt change that ottos whistler really blows, so dose pin. Too many mobs save through them on epic content. They should gaurentee that their effect procs as long as you hit your target, no chance to save. Cuz so far outta the 500+ mobs i've killed i can still keep count of how many mobs i got to make dance and that its not an outstanding number at all (12 only 12 mobs danced so far, i've been counted cuz i noticed mobs save throgh it) again that is absolutely stupid. And like i said by the time i get to use it again everything is dead, and since it dosent work on bosses it needs to proc 100% of the time.

the only worth while abilities i've gotten is the granted ones from leveling up the destiny, healing spring, and the one that give syou prot from elements. wild arc blades is iight, dose nice amount of dmg.

this ed is really not up to par with the word epic.I cant wait to see what good rain of arrows is, but other than that, the rest of this entire tree is trash.

V_mad_jester_V
08-27-2012, 08:17 PM
also i just read through the shadow dancer tree, and its cool and all, but i wouldnt use literally 99& of what that tree offers. I would benefit from the sneak attack dmg, but thats really it. I dont need all that shadow **** that lets me "blend with my surroundigns" thats not my build. Champion if improved is still a better option then shadow dancer. And im not going to level up an epic des only to use 3 abilities in the entire tree.

*edit* the only thing i would take shadow dancer for is the extra sneak attack, my disable is currently 75, so i dont need that bonus. Im 12 levels wiz so i can be incorporal, so i dont need that bonus. only thing i would use is int/dex boost

HatsuharuZ
08-27-2012, 08:48 PM
My only problem with Shiradi Champion is all of the extra damage procs only activate 7% of the time. I wish there were more things that procced on every hit. SC is potentially potent, but it's way too random. I would like some consistency in my stances and activated abilities.

V_mad_jester_V
08-27-2012, 08:52 PM
My only problem with Shiradi Champion is all of the extra damage procs only activate 7% of the time. I wish there were more things that procced on every hit. SC is potentially potent, but it's way too random. I would like some consistency in my stances and activated abilities.

exactly, i would be happy with 10-20 extra damage per attack, not %.

so when in stay good you do 10-20 light damage per attack/bolt/arrow/thrown same goes with stay frosty, and prism will always do 10-20 random damage type per attack/bolts/arrow/thrown

wax_on_wax_off
08-27-2012, 09:06 PM
the only damage i typically see is the force damage granted to you from being champion. I am not level 3 in the champion tree almost level 4. My damage with a cross bow is 30 less then an arti build. Most artis i talk to do 60-70 dmg per bolt meaning 180-210 dmg per burst. I do 50-60 dmg per bolt so 150-180 per burst.

Also i dont see any gold damage applied in stay good stance, only the occasional 30 ish damage it dose, but not often. It dosent break any dr ever from what i can tell. I wouldnt be so bad off if they did something like each stance dose a gaurenteed amount of damage every time not 7% chance, and would make any weapon you hold pure good/cold/random (random being a damage type not weapon type held so prism would be the only exception).

still doesnt change that ottos whistler really blows, so dose pin. Too many mobs save through them on epic content. They should gaurentee that their effect procs as long as you hit your target, no chance to save. Cuz so far outta the 500+ mobs i've killed i can still keep count of how many mobs i got to make dance and that its not an outstanding number at all (12 only 12 mobs danced so far, i've been counted cuz i noticed mobs save throgh it) again that is absolutely stupid. And like i said by the time i get to use it again everything is dead, and since it dosent work on bosses it needs to proc 100% of the time.

the only worth while abilities i've gotten is the granted ones from leveling up the destiny, healing spring, and the one that give syou prot from elements. wild arc blades is iight, dose nice amount of dmg.

this ed is really not up to par with the word epic.I cant wait to see what good rain of arrows is, but other than that, the rest of this entire tree is trash.

Third rank of Stay Good makes your ranged weapons break good DR, rank 2 upgrades the damage from 3d10 to 3d20.

I've seen multiple enemies dance per use of otto's whistler at least doing EH drow MotU quests, I really like it. Don't have Pin at the moment as it didn't seem to work often enough.

Again, when I have this destiny activated I find myself competing in kill counts with some of the very best players of this game so if you find it lacking perhaps you need to look elsewhere for the issue.

V_mad_jester_V
08-27-2012, 09:32 PM
Third rank of Stay Good makes your ranged weapons break good DR, rank 2 upgrades the damage from 3d10 to 3d20.

I've seen multiple enemies dance per use of otto's whistler at least doing EH drow MotU quests, I really like it. Don't have Pin at the moment as it didn't seem to work often enough.

Again, when I have this destiny activated I find myself competing in kill counts with some of the very best players of this game so if you find it lacking perhaps you need to look elsewhere for the issue.

its still dumb that ottos have a save chance and 15 sec cool down, it needs 0 save chance. That or make it a 3 sec cool down. A wiz or sorc can spam the ottos dance and sphere every what 3-5 sec? making ottos far more inferior to have then using a wiz/sorcs ottos. 15 sec and chance to save against it makes it gimped as frakk. Maybe your just lucky that it prots, but im not so lucky and i use it as often as possible. There seems to be no way of uping the dc of it either for it dosent tell you the type of dc check it makes.

still for stay good, only 7% chance to proc, its trashy, while every 15 seconds legendary can use theres. Theres no gaurentee that stay good will proc every 15 secs. I've been watching it, and i can tell you it only procs 5% of the time in an entire quest. Same goes for the rest of my stances.

my issue isnt competing with kills as you are very wrongly assuming, my dps is good enough to get into most groups, hell me a tank, a healer, and one ranger brought harry in shroud from 50% to 20% then it was brought down to me the tank and healer and we got him down to 5% the tank had no ED's and had trashy dps, its was me doing the dmg. Unfortunately the healer died and soon after the tank then myself (so friggen close)

anyways back to the point. Those stances should be allowed to be activ at the same time, especially since they only have a meager 7% chance to activate. That or my original statement and make it constant damage.

This tree has almost no consistency to it at all and it has the potential to being great.

so long story short dont judge my build, and dont go strictly off your good luck with using the ed. Cuz that luck isnt the same for every one. Stop making it a "well it works for me and blah blah blah" it should work for you. No WRONG. the champion tree is based upon luck and chance, nothing more. cuz its luck and chance that ottos or pin will proc, its luck and chance that you get the 7% stance to proc.

Havok.cry
08-27-2012, 09:56 PM
With all the things that you can get having that 7% chance, shiradri champion has some sweet dps. Not consistent, and definetly random, but sweet and high all the same. It does suck that whistler isnt effective though. Shiradri was designed with the random theme in mind, and I personally like it. It is epic, its just not your flavor of epic.

V_mad_jester_V
08-27-2012, 10:04 PM
With all the things that you can get having that 7% chance, shiradri champion has some sweet dps. Not consistent, and definetly random, but sweet and high all the same. It does suck that whistler isnt effective though. Shiradri was designed with the random theme in mind, and I personally like it. It is epic, its just not your flavor of epic.

its literally the only one that works with my build. I dont need shadow dancer for i already posses many of the items it provides just through wizard levels.

its cool that its random not cool that its 7% random, not cool you can only have one stance active with that 7%, i wouldnt complain if it were letss say 25%

HatsuharuZ
08-27-2012, 10:12 PM
I think that you can get up to 35% chance for a random proc with double rainbow, once you hit level 5 of the destiny. That's just over 1/3 of all your hits.

V_mad_jester_V
08-27-2012, 10:33 PM
I think that you can get up to 35% chance for a random proc with double rainbow, once you hit level 5 of the destiny. That's just over 1/3 of all your hits.

for just double rainbow? that dosent seem all that great

Havok.cry
08-27-2012, 10:49 PM
At teir 5, with double rainbow, and all the inates, and everything else you can get, you get something alot of 7% chance procs every shot. IIRC it ends up being a 70% chance for something to proc on every shot.

wax_on_wax_off
08-27-2012, 11:46 PM
If you don't like random chance then I'd say tha this is the wrong game for you. The very premise of D&D is dice rolls and random chance.

My character will have:
5% chance of Freezing Ice
5% chance of Earthgrab
5% chance of Greater Stone Prison
7% chance of 2d10 ability damage
7% chance of 1d100 random damage
7% chance of a random effect (which has been known to knock raid bosses over - Epic!)
7% chance to paralyse
5% chance to gain +1 attack and +1 diplomacy (stacks up to 10 times)
7% chance for 10d10 sonic damage
7% chance for 2d100 force damage

Along with everything else that the destiny offers.

What's your build again? Crossbow/wizard build? Sounds like the issue right there.

Audience with the Queen is the bomb I hear, I hope you've got some diplomacy.

Havok.cry
08-28-2012, 12:01 AM
If you don't like random chance then I'd say tha this is the wrong game for you. The very premise of D&D is dice rolls and random chance.

My character will have:
5% chance of Freezing Ice
5% chance of Earthgrab
5% chance of Greater Stone Prison
7% chance of 2d10 ability damage
7% chance of 1d100 random damage
7% chance of a random effect (which has been known to knock raid bosses over - Epic!)
7% chance to paralyse
5% chance to gain +1 attack and +1 diplomacy (stacks up to 10 times)
7% chance for 10d10 sonic damage
7% chance for 2d100 force damage

Along with everything else that the destiny offers.

What's your build again? Crossbow/wizard build? Sounds like the issue right there.

Audience with the Queen is the bomb I hear, I hope you've got some diplomacy.
actually as an arti wizard he should be the god of shiradri. Repeater, rune arm, chainmissle sla, all in one.

Rian
08-28-2012, 12:16 AM
Shiradi Champion is pretty good.
If you put points into it you can get DR7/Cold Iron +25 Universal SPell power
7% chance to cause any random effect in the game with some that we don't have access to normally (Freezing Ice, Necrotic cloud, etc...)
7% chance to cause 2d10 ability score damage
7% chance to do 2d100 random damage
7% chance to do 2d100 sonic damage
7% chance to do 2d100 force damage
A Heal over time for 1d100/X Seconds and is effected by spell power and lore items

Otto's Whistling arrow DOES NOT have a save on it unless they nerfed it (which would be uncalled for). It just has a short duration and only works on enemies in the process of moving. Pin has no save to it and only works if they're not moving, though it doesn't fully work as the description says it does. Both abilities cause the target to be helpless.
There is no way for them to save before or during said abilities being CORRECTLY and SUCCESSFULLY on them.

From what I've seen, the random effects from double rainbow are effected by spell power (which is freaking awesome for a earthquake/icestorm spamming druid).
Wild Shots also supposedly is effected by the appropriate spell power.

Artis who are supposedly doing 50-60 points of damage probably have a huge intellegence score and use insightful damage along with damage amping gear, deadly weapons, and weapons with a high base damage to start. That's just guessing.

I am tied between Fatesinger and Shiradi with my full AA ranger. However now that tailwind has been nerfed I'll probably go back to Shiradi. Would have to recap my ranger to fully decide.

The problem is not shiradi champion, it's the fact that you don't know how to use it properly.

V_mad_jester_V
08-28-2012, 12:23 AM
If you don't like random chance then I'd say tha this is the wrong game for you. The very premise of D&D is dice rolls and random chance.

My character will have:
5% chance of Freezing Ice
5% chance of Earthgrab
5% chance of Greater Stone Prison
7% chance of 2d10 ability damage
7% chance of 1d100 random damage
7% chance of a random effect (which has been known to knock raid bosses over - Epic!)
7% chance to paralyse
5% chance to gain +1 attack and +1 diplomacy (stacks up to 10 times)
7% chance for 10d10 sonic damage
7% chance for 2d100 force damage

Along with everything else that the destiny offers.

What's your build again? Crossbow/wizard build? Sounds like the issue right there.

Audience with the Queen is the bomb I hear, I hope you've got some diplomacy.

im only doing 30 less damage then most pure artis on my server, i make up for that using eldars, sonic blast, firewall, magic missle, and frost lance. so that makes up for the loss in dps from my bow.

12 wiz/ 7 rogue/ 1 fighter (for the feat) like i said me a tank (with low dps) a ranger (who died when harry was at 20%) leaving me with a low dps tank, a healer for the tank, and myself. we brought harry down to 5% before the three of us were killed. Again per bolt im -10, per burst im -30, but i make up for that and then some with spells.

12 wiz for self buffing/healing (wf) 7 rogue for sneak attack, 1 fighter for feat. No epic gear (currently level 24) and no sneak attack gear (so my dps has room to increase). If you think my build is trash then you think all arti builds are trash cuz with spells added to the mix i actually out dps most arti's i know and have talked to (i like to bust out the measuring tape to make sure my toon is up to par) so if you factor in the 150-180 damage per burst i do + 25-30 from fire wall + 25-30 from eldars i come out with about 200-240 dps. Then add in 5 dmg per magic missle and 20-30 damage from sonic blast. Again most artis i talk to only do about 60-70 damage per bolt 180-210 damage per 3 round burst. Most arcane archers i know do roughly 100-120 dmg per arrow, every arrow they loose i already shot a round off with my xbow. The only time they out beat my bow is while using many shot, but that cool down is so long they only have a quick burst of out dpsing me then its back to equal ground, same thing goes for arti endless fusalade (what ever its called) they have a 6 second span to out dps me, then its back to equal ground. Both of which i dont count cuz most of the time they use that for strictly bosses. Which is fine and all but in long run im on equal grounds with artis and rangers.

I dont mind chance but when that chance is nothing but 7% across the board then i do mind a little more. They are not earth grab, incinerate, or anything, hell their not even all that big damage. Whoop de doo i can do an extra 60 dmg with one of the stance 7% of the time, that leaves what 93% that im not doing up to 60 extra damage. Big increase in dps there!!!!!! The % chance is too too low, and this tree would be alot better with a higher % chance.

I just hit level 4 in champion and got points into what i wanted, and still no difference.

I think the champion build would be best if you could activate prism, stay good, and stay frosty at the same time, and bump up their % chance to 10%. if not then at least bump it up to 25% chance. You can throw out earth grab and all that fun stuff all you want but those should remain low.



My character will have:
5% chance of Freezing Ice should increase to at least 8-10%
5% chance of Earthgrab should increase to 8-10%
5% chance of Greater Stone Prison should stay at this % chance
7% chance of 2d10 ability damage should be higher % chance cuz you can only do additional 20 dmg
7% chance of 1d100 random damage should stay as is
7% chance of a random effect (which has been known to knock raid bosses over - Epic!) iffy about this cuz i've seen myself heal mobs for 200+ hp using this stance
7% chance to paralyse should work like paralyzing weapons (meaning mobs must make constant saves every time they are struck
5% chance to gain +1 attack and +1 diplomacy (stacks up to 10 times) should stay due to its ability to stack
7% chance for 10d10 sonic damage should stay as is
7% chance for 2d100 force damage should stay as is



the ones im looking to change are the ones that only add 40-60 damage for a 7% chance, big whoop. Barbs, fighters, and paladins can easily achieve that with 100% with cool down timers. My friend uses his volcanic edge more often then i see the extra cold or light damage. Heck he can use his volcanic edge 30 times before i can see my light or cold damage proc 10 times.

V_mad_jester_V
08-28-2012, 12:35 AM
Otto's Whistling arrow DOES NOT have a save on it unless they nerfed it (which would be uncalled for). It just has a short duration and only works on enemies in the process of moving. Pin has no save to it and only works if they're not moving, though it doesn't fully work as the description says it does. Both abilities cause the target to be helpless.
There is no way for them to save before or during said abilities being CORRECTLY and SUCCESSFULLY on them.

yes ottos has a save, i use it on moving targets, i make sure i try to test it out as extensivly as i could before coming on to the forums to complain about it. When i activate ottos and my bolts let loose, i see *save* *save* *save* above their heads upon using ottos.



Artis who are supposedly doing 50-60 points of damage probably have a huge intellegence score and use insightful damage along with damage amping gear, deadly weapons, and weapons with a high base damage to start. That's just guessing.

im the one who does 50-60 per bolt, artis do roughly 60-70 per bolt


it's the fact that you don't know how to use it properly.

you know what they say about assuming dont ya? Your assuming i dont know how to use it but you sir are wrong.
I know pin states that it will pin a mob that is not moving, it slows a mob that is moving. so that one is much easier to test, and it doesnt really work all that great. I have only seen 1 mob actually slowed by pin, 0 mobs stuck by pin, i respecced and done away with it cuz it has been utterly useless since i got into champion.

Next i know ottos says that it works on moving targets, and i go to kings forest, aggro some kite them around so that they are moving, i let the bolts loose and *save* *save* *save*

It says nothing about how to increase the potential of it, and i have maxed out the ranks in ottos and yet i see those dreaded saves.

now for the items that have a 7% proc chance, is there a way to increase their % chance? cuz i havent seen any, and i dont think its too difficult to play a class right or wrong with stance. I can move around and fire on any target free without restriction to proc em (minus the 7% chance) regard less if they are moving or standing still, that dosent have an effect on them now do they?

so as it seems your statement is very wrong about me mainly due to the fact only 2 of the activatable abilities has terms and conditions, which i make sure and try to meet. But alas they still dont work.

Rian
08-28-2012, 12:41 AM
12 wiz for self buffing/healing (wf) 7 rogue for sneak attack, 1 fighter for feat. No epic gear (currently level 24) and no sneak attack gear (so my dps has room to increase). If you think my build is trash then you think all arti builds are trash cuz ...

First of all, you obviously don't know about an artificer.
They can imbue their intellegence modifier into either attack or damage.
They have Deadly Weapons (+1[W]).
They have BLADE BARRIER and force enchancements to go with it.
They have perma manyshot since they're using repeaters.
They have endless fusilade.
They have increased damage with Xbows.
They have RUNEARMS
They can bla bla bla I'm sure at this point I'm boring you with things you may have or not have known.

Second with that statement you changed this thread. Now instead of saying shiradi champion sucks, it seems like you're saying it sucks because it doesn't work well with your build.

wax_on_wax_off
08-28-2012, 12:50 AM
The DPS problem there isn't with the crossbow but rather the rune arm. At level 20 about ~40% of an Artificers DPS comes from the rune arm, you're rubbish spells aren't going to keep up with that.

V_mad_jester_V
08-28-2012, 01:02 AM
First of all, you obviously don't know about an artificer.
They can imbue their intellegence modifier into either attack or damage.
They have Deadly Weapons (+1[W]).
They have BLADE BARRIER and force enchancements to go with it.
They have perma manyshot since they're using repeaters.
They have endless fusilade.
They have increased damage with Xbows.
They can bla bla bla I'm sure at this point I'm boring you with things you didn't know (evidently).

Second with that statement you changed this thread. Now instead of saying shiradi champion sucks, it seems like you're saying it sucks because it doesn't work well with your build.

Did you take the mechanic PrE for rogue?

yes i took mech rogue

so that means i have int mod into my weapons
yes i skip out on deadly
yes i skip out on blade barrier
and i use repeater xbows
yes i kno they have one die step higher with battle engineer

and i do know all artis i've talked to do the range of 60-70 dmg per bolt base. I have talked to many to make sure my build is going in the right direction, and so far i seem to be doing right.

Blade barrier is alright but you gotta kite mobs through it. The spells i use are for stationary mobs and requires no kiting. So 0 kiting means 0 damage from blade barriers.

also i feel like yo udidnt fulley read cuz i did awknowledge that their endless fusilade will give them a mometary boost to their dps over mine, how ever base dps i barely out rank mainly cuz my spells are for moving and stationary targets, while blade barrier requires kiting. More often then not most arti's i know dont cast blade barrier cuz others dont use it ergo its a waste of sp. They have flame turrent but when the mobs get moved then the flame turrent is useless, but i have fire wall which i can cast more of and move according to the mobs locations.

Regardless if champion worked with my build or not, it still needs improvements.

Dunklerlindwurm
08-28-2012, 01:08 AM
To go back on Topic

OP i think you dont realize that all the Shiradi Champion 7% damage procs are enhanced by spell power and spell crits.

On my Archmage-Wizard with the full enhancement-force line the 2d100 Force damage from fey power was able to crit for 1400! damage

Do you know how great that is? You cast magic missile and have 1400 damage btw that :)?

The sonic proc does also 200-300 dmaage and 700 damage crits

Light Damage was somewhere btw 100-200 damage.

+7% chance to paralyze enemys.

I sometimes even thought that shiradi champion is a littlebit Overpowered compared to other destinies....

Imagine i cast Meteor swarm+Force missile+Magic missile+Past life Magic missile which are about 30 chances to get something to proc.

Have you actually tested the damage? Do you even use the right spell power enhancements to make use of shiradi champion? Do you have the right eqipment?

Maybe your build just isnt right to make use of shiradi champion?

One thing is for sure. Shiradi Champion is far from underpowered.

Lonnbeimnech
08-28-2012, 01:16 AM
IKR, I tried this on my drow shuriken build, 5 arti 7 sorc 8 wizard in zombie form, and I still do bad damage...

RandomKeypress
08-28-2012, 01:19 AM
The problem is that Shiradi ties together the most powerful damage style in the game (arcane casting) with the weakest (ranged combat). Any time you try and buff the damage for ranged side of things, you massively over-buff the casters, who really don't need it.

I use Ottos Whistler and Pin - not for the effects which seldom work, but for the +1W. Why not?

V_mad_jester_V
08-28-2012, 01:29 AM
The DPS problem there isn't with the crossbow but rather the rune arm. At level 20 about ~40% of an Artificers DPS comes from the rune arm, you're rubbish spells aren't going to keep up with that.

so far i havent see a difference between my damage out put at level 24 compared to a pure arti's dps at level 24. I havent seen their rune arms make a major difference at all. Like i said aside from endless fusilade my dps seems to be up to par with their dps. I have confirmed it with guildies who have epic leveled artis, friends, and pug's. Im too a point on the server where people call me an arti rather than a wizard (cuz i can still buff others with scrolls available in house c..sorta stupid that i cant buff my own weapons >.>). Every elitest a hole who has tried to knock my build has shut their holes cuz i usually am the person saving the day. Did power play and i was the sole survivor of the optional that has those little spheres to form voltron, and took him down on my own in a decent amount of time. As i said before me, a healer, a tank, and a ranger made our last stand with harry in hard shroud run. (for use to have brought him down to 5% from 50% is pretty impressive, no one in the party thought we would last as long as we did). even people on the server who dislike me will at least respect the build i have put out,cuz of the fact that i can hold my own.

but the point of this thread is not my build of my toon but the change i believe is needed for champion. The proc rate is too low for the three stances available, and i see that it really makes no major difference. Yeah when they proc they are mediocre to great (the ones that only prot for 20-60 damage is mediocre) and you can defend it all you want, but compared to the other trees, this seems to be the low end. Shadow dancer has insta kill abilities, same goes for lily pedal or what ever its called. Legendary has many available option to increase damage, speed, and chance to hit (when i used legendary to get to champion and used the damage boost i went from 50-60 to 70-80damage per bolt) while the damage boost was nice, thats all i used in the legendary tree. (thats actually going to be my twist of fate)

again shadow dancer actually dosent have much to offer me except a one time increase to sneak attack damage, a like 2 or 3 abilities. Champion how ever, i used everything i get. Am i happy with it no do i think it needs a bit of an upgrade, i wouldnt be here if i didnt. like i said the champion tree either needs to allow all stance to be active simultaneously or change it to guaranteed dmg 100% of the time, not 7%. Even if that guaranteed damage came in the form of 1d10 or 2d10 i think that would be a step up from what it currently is. So that means every attack will have anywhere between 1 to 10 extra damage or 2 to 20 extra damage per attack.

I dont see why any one would be against it. its all beneficial and it wouldnt be broke considering melees can potentially hit for much 2x more then any arti, ranger, or repeater built rogue. my guildie is now consistantly hitting 200 low to 270 high, 500+ crits. Barbarians i know can hit for 230 ish low to 300 high and have crits of 600-700 and occasionally the 1k crits. I know cuz im always asking, to make sure my builds are up to par with others on the server. If i feel my toon is gimped then i lesser tr, if he is still gimped after then i delete and reroll. Arcanes can hit harder then any arti, ranger, or repeater built rogue. Anyone using a bow or xbow is behind the rest of the classes in this game. I have played rangers that can do 150 per arrow, but many shots cool down blows chunks. I have yet ot play an arti cuz i havent unlocked one yet. But as i said i've talked to many of them and they say their typical damage from levels 20-25 is around 60-70 so not to much of a difference form my 50-60. Again that is without gear, tharnes goggles would up it to 55-65, and more gear are out there that will do this boost in damage for me. Also with legendary's attack boost it will raise my dps considerably. But i still think xbow users and bow users are still behind the curve and something needs to be done to catch them up a little more.

YOu can argue that they do less damaged cuz they are ranged, but that dosent make a valid argument when you look at wizards and sorcs. Heck a divine can out dps a ranged user using divine punish, comet fall, and searing light in some cases. (note the key phrase here, "in some cases') and yes my guild healer can do 300+ dmg per tick with his divine punish. Which stacked up 3x times is brutal. You can call bs, but he has killed me in one tick while in undead form and two ticks while in living form using just his one spell.

Dunklerlindwurm
08-28-2012, 01:33 AM
so far i havent see a difference between my damage out put at level 24 compared to a pure arti's dps at level 24. I havent seen their rune arms make a major difference at all. Like i said aside from endless fusilade my dps seems to be up to par with their dps. I have confirmed it with guildies who have epic leveled artis, friends, and pug's. Im too a point on the server where people call me an arti rather than a wizard (cuz i can still buff others with scrolls available in house c..sorta stupid that i cant buff my own weapons >.>). Every elitest a hole who has tried to knock my build has shut their holes cuz i usually am the person saving the day. Did power play and i was the sole survivor of the optional that has those little spheres to form voltron, and took him down on my own in a decent amount of time. As i said before me, a healer, a tank, and a ranger made our last stand with harry in hard shroud run. (for use to have brought him down to 5% from 50% is pretty impressive, no one in the party thought we would last as long as we did). even people on the server who dislike me will at least respect the build i have put out,cuz of the fact that i can hold my own.

but the point of this thread is not my build of my toon but the change i believe is needed for champion. The proc rate is too low for the three stances available, and i see that it really makes no major difference. Yeah when they proc they are mediocre to great (the ones that only prot for 20-60 damage is mediocre) and you can defend it all you want, but compared to the other trees, this seems to be the low end. Shadow dancer has insta kill abilities, same goes for lily pedal or what ever its called. Legendary has many available option to increase damage, speed, and chance to hit (when i used legendary to get to champion and used the damage boost i went from 50-60 to 70-80damage per bolt) while the damage boost was nice, thats all i used in the legendary tree. (thats actually going to be my twist of fate)

again shadow dancer actually dosent have much to offer me except a one time increase to sneak attack damage, a like 2 or 3 abilities. Champion how ever, i used everything i get. Am i happy with it no do i think it needs a bit of an upgrade, i wouldnt be here if i didnt. like i said the champion tree either needs to allow all stance to be active simultaneously or change it to guaranteed dmg 100% of the time, not 7%. Even if that guaranteed damage came in the form of 1d10 or 2d10 i think that would be a step up from what it currently is. So that means every attack will have anywhere between 1 to 10 extra damage or 2 to 20 extra damage per attack.

I dont see why any one would be against it. its all beneficial and it wouldnt be broke considering melees can potentially hit for much 2x more then any arti, ranger, or repeater built rogue. my guildie is now consistantly hitting 200 low to 270 high, 500+ crits. Barbarians i know can hit for 230 ish low to 300 high and have crits of 600-700 and occasionally the 1k crits. I know cuz im always asking, to make sure my builds are up to par with others on the server. If i feel my toon is gimped then i lesser tr, if he is still gimped after then i delete and reroll. Arcanes can hit harder then any arti, ranger, or repeater built rogue. Anyone using a bow or xbow is behind the rest of the classes in this game. I have played rangers that can do 150 per arrow, but many shots cool down blows chunks. I have yet ot play an arti cuz i havent unlocked one yet. But as i said i've talked to many of them and they say their typical damage from levels 20-25 is around 60-70 so not to much of a difference form my 50-60. Again that is without gear, tharnes goggles would up it to 55-65, and more gear are out there that will do this boost in damage for me. Also with legendary's attack boost it will raise my dps considerably. But i still think xbow users and bow users are still behind the curve and something needs to be done to catch them up a little more.

YOu can argue that they do less damaged cuz they are ranged, but that dosent make a valid argument when you look at wizards and sorcs. Heck a divine can out dps a ranged user using divine punish, comet fall, and searing light in some cases. (note the key phrase here, "in some cases') and yes my guild healer can do 300+ dmg per tick with his divine punish. Which stacked up 3x times is brutal. You can call bs, but he has killed me in one tick while in undead form and two ticks while in living form using just his one spell.

Read my post above again.

It looks to me you havent tested the damage at all or use the wrong equipment/enhancements

V_mad_jester_V
08-28-2012, 01:47 AM
To go back on Topic
Imagine i cast Meteor swarm+Force missile+Magic missile+Past life Magic missile which are about 30 chances to get something to proc.

my points are allocated in such a way that i dont have room to use those, its a ranged tree and your already proving my point even further that it should be looked into, not all builds have the room to have equipment to boost this. There are already PLENTY of ed's that boost a spell casters abilities and powers and are based on spell casters equipment and enhancements. this one should be based purely on the xbow/bow users ranged abilites, not their spell power



Have you actually tested the damage? Do you even use the right spell power enhancements to make use of shiradi champion? Do you have the right eqipment?

yes i will occasionally see a plus 5-20 every time the sonic damage procs. And no my equipment is in such a way that i cant really change anything out, cloak is the named one that decreases my threat generation. Im using the tinkers gloves for the dex and open lock, house c boots (i can probably switch around a bit), +6 int helm, currently no belt (so i can add one thing there) and **** bracers (another i can add) +6 con necklace, moderate fort with deathblock docent. magi helm with +15 diplo that i wear at all times (to shake alot of the aggro i get regardless of the fact that i have -40-50% threat generation) superior false life trinket. Again your proving a point to me that the champion tree needs some looking over. Cuz it shouldnt rely on spell power and spell crit, it should rely on just the dmg out put with bows/xbows. Im a hater of rangers, and im actually not just looking out for myself on this one, but for rangers. I think to make each stance do a fixed amount of damage is much better then a proc rate. The only abilites that should have a proc rate is like rain of arrows and anything that dose 1d100 or 10d10 damage. But if its only doing 1d10, 2d10, 1d20, 2d20, 3d20 then it should be lowered to do slightly less damage but proc 100% of the time. it would be nice having to use a different xbow that dosent have pure good on it, while doing good/light damage using stay good, or use my pure good bow and fight a fire ele while being in stay frosty stance.



Maybe your build just isnt right to make use of shiradi champion?


as i said before its the only ed viable for my build. Cuz i have low spell power in all schools and elements i stay away from magister, draconic, and what ever the name of the last caster based tree is called. I dont use legendary or any from that circle cuz none of them really have anything that'll benefit me much. none of the divine trees have benefits for me either. Alot of those trees tend to swing one of two ways, melee power and casters power, even the champion tree sways towards caster as you have pointed out to me. Caster gear which i would be happy to find as long as it conforms to my needs (so far proven to be easier said than done)

as i said your statements have proven to me thus far this tree needs a nice look at cuz i dont think all arti's, rangers, ect who wanna use this tree wanna point enhancement points they dont have into spell crit and spell power, and then change around their gear to use this tree either. You may want to, but there are many that dont, and once more as the broken record i am, there are plenty of caster trees and plenty of melee trees.


*edit* i prematurely hit enter

anyways someone mentioned to go shadow dancer

some abilites require me to be up front and personal with the enemy, but fat chance, the point of my build is to be away from the enemy. One ability is a kill aura of some sort, one ability is incorporeal (12 levels of necro wiz covers that) one allows me to sneak faster (whoop de doo) some gives me higher dex/int (its nice and if i went to this tree this is where almost all my points are going is for higher int but not even worth it for +3 to my dmg) one gives me higher sneak damage (i would take this one ability). one gives me higher disable (i have 72 disable now, and with tor bracers i can have 80 disable, 82 with head of good fortune, 86 with rogue skill boost) so i dont need that outta that tree.

Dunklerlindwurm
08-28-2012, 02:00 AM
So you want to use a specific ED..but dont want to use a build or equipment that works well with this ED?

And then you complain that the ED sucks? And want it changed?


That is like i build a pure sorcerer with 10 Strenght and use the Fury of the Wild ED and complain that it sucks because i do low damage or dont hit at all.

V_mad_jester_V
08-28-2012, 02:06 AM
So you want to use a specific ED..but dont want to use a build or equipment that works well with this ED?

And then you complain that the ED sucks? And want it changed?


That is like i build a pure sorcerer with 10 Strenght and use the Fury of the Wild ED and complain that it sucks because i do low damage or dont hit at all.

bad example imo, cuz all my remanding equipment is going to be used to up the damage of my xbow, not up my ed. I shouldnt need equipment to up the champion ed. I shouldnt need to use stuff to up my des that can benefit a rogue mechanic, non tempest ranger, or bow fighter (only seen two of these). Like i said there are trees that swing for arcanes/divines, and there are trees that swing for melees. Then theres the bard tree.

V_mad_jester_V
08-28-2012, 02:15 AM
bad example imo, cuz all my remanding equipment is going to be used to up the damage of my xbow, not up my ed. I shouldnt need equipment to up the champion ed. I shouldnt need to use stuff to up my des that can benefit a rogue mechanic, non tempest ranger, or bow fighter (only seen two of these). Like i said there are trees that swing for arcanes/divines, and there are trees that swing for melees. Then theres the bard tree.

ps while yes i know the champion tree says ranged,thrown, or spells, i think they need to do away with the spell part period. There are already plenty of trees that druids can go to and arcane archers can go to, but it seems to me to be specialized for rangers, artis, and mech repeater rogues. I think if they changed this tree up more mech rogues and artis would use this rather than shadow dancer. Theres already a tree for clrs and fvs, a paladine tree, a fighter tree, a bard tree, a rogue tree, a barbarian tree, but this tree as your making it seems requires more caster esp equipment then anything else. This tree needs to a fit for ranged based rangers, rogues, and arties. (i've seen tons o melee arties). It should not tie into spell power and spell crit chance, and even if i did change my equipement it wouldnt do much due to my enhancements which cant change either. What about rogue mechs who dont get all those enhancements to increase spell power and crits? but they are repeater built and they would probably benefit better from this ranged tree rather than a melee tree (ive read through shadow dancer and it definitely seems a better fit for melees then ranged all for the same reasons why i didnt go that tree. some of the abilites are biotch out tactics, a ranged rogue dosent need to hide/sneak, they are in the back of the party anyways, and they dont need anything to allow them to get away from combat cuz those ranged toons should be attack already aggrod mobs, not being the aggressor, thats why theres the threat generation decrease and sneak attack bonus. you cant sneak something that is looking at you if you dont have bluff.

Dunklerlindwurm
08-28-2012, 02:23 AM
bad example imo, cuz all my remanding equipment is going to be used to up the damage of my xbow, not up my ed. I shouldnt need equipment to up the champion ed. I shouldnt need to use stuff to up my des that can benefit a rogue mechanic, non tempest ranger, or bow fighter (only seen two of these). Like i said there are trees that swing for arcanes/divines, and there are trees that swing for melees. Then theres the bard tree.

Well i agree with you in this point.

Looking at a pure Ranged charakter...the choice of ED is very limited with only Shiradi Champion or Shadow Dancer which both need very specific builds to work great.

If i played lets say..a pure Ranger with Longbow..i couldt make the same use out of Shiradi champion because a pure Ranger doesnt have the ability to increase Spell damage with enhancements.

But your build has wizard levels! You could change your enhancements to increase the damage of Shiradi procs greatly.
For example if you take the force line instead of the fire line you could use Ice Storm instead of Firewall because the Force line enhances Ice Storm too.
Using an item with universel spell power instead of single element items would increase all the shiradi damage procs.


The Problem is.
If they changed the shiradi abilitys to a much greater proc rate it would become overpowered for anyone who uses spell power enhancements.
So what would you do?
Change shiradi champion so that it doesnt get enhanced by spell power anymore? Then its not interesting for spell casters at all (For example druid who has this ED as first choice)

wax_on_wax_off
08-28-2012, 02:24 AM
Rune Arms contribute 250 to 350 damage per second, I don't see anything in your build making that up. Furthermore, with Shiradi, every rune arm projectile (5/shot for lucid) has a chance to proc all that awesome Shiradi stuff.

V_mad_jester_V
08-28-2012, 02:33 AM
Well i agree with you in this point.

The Problem is.
If they changed the shiradi abilitys to a much greater proc rate it would become overpowered for anyone who uses spell power enhancements.
So what would you do?
Change shiradi champion so that it doesnt get enhanced by spell power anymore? Then its not interesting for spell casters at all (For example druid who has this ED as first choice)

Like i said make that ed have fixed damage so it'll be like an arti weapon buff but for any weapon you hold. It shouldnt be interesting for casters cuz they have an entire circle to them selves. Melee druids wont use the champion tree they will most likley head over to he legendary dreadnaught, pedals, or shadow trees. Caster druids would probably better of in draconic or magister.

Jay203
08-28-2012, 02:44 AM
both Otto's Whistler and Pin do not have a save component associated with it
and they're by far the best abilities given to ranged builds... like ever

they do have a condition saftisfaction to work
Otton only makes monster dance if they're hit while moving
Pin only makes monsters helpless if they're hit while NOT moving

Havok.cry
08-28-2012, 02:46 AM
Like i said make that ed have fixed damage so it'll be like an arti weapon buff but for any weapon you hold. It shouldnt be interesting for casters cuz they have an entire circle to them selves. Melee druids wont use the champion tree they will most likley head over to he legendary dreadnaught, pedals, or shadow trees. Caster druids would probably better of in draconic or magister.
Druids have 2 choices to start off in their sphere, shiradri and fury. Melee druids would likely go fury. Caster druids get shiradri. This is the natural sphere. They should not have to go to another sphere just to find something they can use. Nothing in your build is from the natural sphere. It should not change to better suit a build that has nothing to do with it's area of expertise. And FYI rangers are casters, they even have a very shiny new spell to kite things in. I've been using spiked growth to great effect and can not wait to see it procing shiradri abilities.

Dunklerlindwurm
08-28-2012, 02:48 AM
Like i said make that ed have fixed damage so it'll be like an arti weapon buff but for any weapon you hold. It shouldnt be interesting for casters cuz they have an entire circle to them selves. Melee druids wont use the champion tree they will most likley head over to he legendary dreadnaught, pedals, or shadow trees. Caster druids would probably better of in draconic or magister.

But druids cant choose Magister or Draconic as their first choice. Not even second or third choice.

And the idea of the Epic destinies was not to be for only one or two classes only. The Idea was that each ED appeals to alot of different classes and playstyles.

At least thats what i think was the idea from what i read in the beta and before that.

Havok.cry
08-28-2012, 02:51 AM
Here is a question for you OP: Have you considered fury of the wild? Adrenaline and several other abilities work on ranged attacks. Endless fury or whatever its called might be just your thing. Add in sense weakness, tunnel vision and others and you might be happy with it.

Edit: You also mentioned being a tank, so: have you considered unyielding sentinel? Depending on your alignment you could add in quite a few damage abilities onto your weapons with it.

V_mad_jester_V
08-28-2012, 03:15 AM
Here is a question for you OP: Have you considered fury of the wild? Adrenaline and several other abilities work on ranged attacks. Endless fury or whatever its called might be just your thing. Add in sense weakness, tunnel vision and others and you might be happy with it.

Edit: You also mentioned being a tank, so: have you considered unyielding sentinel? Depending on your alignment you could add in quite a few damage abilities onto your weapons with it.

i actually just read through fury of the wild and the adrenaline would be the absolute only thing i would use in that, and its not a tank build, i have a tank but not the one i have as a champion.

Ascendius
08-28-2012, 03:27 AM
Rune Arms contribute 250 to 350 damage per second, I don't see anything in your build making that up. Furthermore, with Shiradi, every rune arm projectile (5/shot for lucid) has a chance to proc all that awesome Shiradi stuff.

My new main is a Shiradi Champion Artificer (full fate points) ever since the expansion. I have never seen Shiradi abilities ever proc from my runearm attacks. I tested it when the expansion came out, and I just tested it a few minutes ago to make sure nothing changed since the patch using Lucid Dream and Tira's Splendor.

I wish that Shiradi Abilities did proc and scale from runearm attacks, but this is not the case.

To the OP, I have no gripes about Shiradi Champion for my Artificer. In my opinion, it is the best thing that ever happened for my Artificer. While an Archmage will utilize SC better than my Artificer, Shiradi Champion seems like it was made for the Artificer.

I assure you. You have not seen a fully geared/fated Shiradi Champion Artificer in action.

My Artificer's name is Deathaven on Khyber.

FuzzyDuck81
08-28-2012, 04:03 AM
I have the shiradi line at tier 5 on 3 characters:

12monk/6ranger/2fighter half elf zen arcane archer - rather random but yeah a nice dps supplement & having tier3 stay good is really useful for the innate /good bypass. I use the ottos whistler & pin abilities on her, they don't actually have saves but description states that the enemy must be moving (ie "its coming right for us!") to proc the dancing, or standing still to properly pin them in place rather than just slow them.

20artificer - faster firing rate on the repeater means procs occur more often, and has chances from the few attack spells i use so i find the destiny more powerful than on the archer. Procs dont seem to happen from the arm but then fey form & the other abilities stil boost universal spellpower so it increases their abilities somewhat anyway.

20wiz warforged evocation archmage - holy moly this is INSANE... my most powerful attack spells are now actually the humble magic missile & chain missile SLAs, plus unmeta'ed versions from memory... wild shots (and boulder toss which i twisted in from fury) are physical damage & therefore get boosted by force spellpower & kinetic lore for a crit chance which adds in a very nice ability to do bulk physical damage too with no SP cost. I've had wild shots hit for an average of 800 or so & crit for 1700+, and the boulder averages about 1500, critting for 4500+, over 7k once since the enemy was helpless at the time.

wax_on_wax_off
08-28-2012, 04:22 AM
My new main is a Shiradi Champion Artificer (full fate points) ever since the expansion. I have never seen Shiradi abilities ever proc from my runearm attacks. I tested it when the expansion came out, and I just tested it a few minutes ago to make sure nothing changed since the patch using Lucid Dream and Tira's Splendor.

I wish that Shiradi Abilities did proc and scale from runearm attacks, but this is not the case.

To the OP, I have no gripes about Shiradi Champion for my Artificer. In my opinion, it is the best thing that ever happened for my Artificer. While an Archmage will utilize SC better than my Artificer, Shiradi Champion seems like it was made for the Artificer.

I assure you. You have not seen a fully geared/fated Shiradi Champion Artificer in action.

My Artificer's name is Deathaven on Khyber.

Ah my mistake, my ranged character is currently an Arcane Archer so I haven't experienced SC as an Artificer yet.

Havok.cry
08-28-2012, 04:26 AM
My new main is a Shiradi Champion Artificer (full fate points) ever since the expansion. I have never seen Shiradi abilities ever proc from my runearm attacks. I tested it when the expansion came out, and I just tested it a few minutes ago to make sure nothing changed since the patch using Lucid Dream and Tira's Splendor.

I wish that Shiradi Abilities did proc and scale from runearm attacks, but this is not the case.

According to the devs it is supposed to. I would bug report it and/or contact varguoille(sp) about it if it doesn't.

Ascendius
08-28-2012, 05:39 AM
According to the devs it is supposed to. I would bug report it and/or contact varguoille(sp) about it if it doesn't.

Yea, I read on the forums before the expansion with Varguoille that runearm attacks are suppose to proc Shiradi abilities, but it looks like it didn't get through. I did a lot of bug reporting with Shiradi and Artificer when the expansion came out, and I did report the runearm/Shiradi proc bug, but I think I may need to PM Varguoille instead.

mr-gary
09-05-2012, 05:43 PM
Rune arms didnt proc the shiradi champion habilitys a month ago when i Tred, but even so no doubt that shiradi is the best destiny for a ranged toon, if u canĀ“t see it just play another kind of toon cus ranged aint for u defenetly. And just one more thing ofc the Shiradi Campion destiny is arcane based also cus the only really completly ranged class in the game is the artificer.
The problem is that most players dont know how to play ranged! the ranged classes have power enough to solo evrything on epic elite!

P.S. do a reasoble buld and your problems r solved

Talias006
09-05-2012, 07:08 PM
the only really completly ranged class in the game is the artificer.

Completely, and utterly false.
Artificers can use melee just as well as X-bows, the same as Rangers can use melee just as well as Bows.

jakeelala
09-21-2012, 06:43 PM
My new main is a Shiradi Champion Artificer (full fate points) ever since the expansion. I have never seen Shiradi abilities ever proc from my runearm attacks. I tested it when the expansion came out, and I just tested it a few minutes ago to make sure nothing changed since the patch using Lucid Dream and Tira's Splendor.

I wish that Shiradi Abilities did proc and scale from runearm attacks, but this is not the case.

To the OP, I have no gripes about Shiradi Champion for my Artificer. In my opinion, it is the best thing that ever happened for my Artificer. While an Archmage will utilize SC better than my Artificer, Shiradi Champion seems like it was made for the Artificer.

I assure you. You have not seen a fully geared/fated Shiradi Champion Artificer in action.

My Artificer's name is Deathaven on Khyber.

I've also got a capped Arty/Shiradi I play all the time I've NEVER seen Shiradi proc on Rune Arms

BlackSteel
09-22-2012, 07:37 AM
its still dumb that ottos have a save chance and 15 sec cool down, it needs 0 save chance. That or make it a 3 sec cool down. A wiz or sorc can spam the ottos dance and sphere every what 3-5 sec? making ottos far more inferior to have then using a wiz/sorcs ottos. 15 sec and chance to save against it makes it gimped as frakk. Maybe your just lucky that it prots, but im not so lucky and i use it as often as possible. There seems to be no way of uping the dc of it either for it dosent tell you the type of dc check it makes.
.

I have NEVER had a mob make a save on either ability, pin or whistler.

they might be immune, but there's no save. Its a conditional ability. Read the description. I typically Pin one or two mobs in a bunch on the iniatal volley, then dance 2-3 that start running towards me.

additionally between the stat damage of prism and nerve toxin pretty much all trash turns into auto crit status within a few shots

RandomKeypress
09-22-2012, 09:09 AM
I have NEVER had a mob make a save on either ability, pin or whistler.

they might be immune, but there's no save. Its a conditional ability. Read the description. I typically Pin one or two mobs in a bunch on the iniatal volley, then dance 2-3 that start running towards me.

additionally between the stat damage of prism and nerve toxin pretty much all trash turns into auto crit status within a few shots

You actually find the stat damage on prism useful? It never seems to proc anywhere near enough to be useful for me. I only have it because double-rainbow is so much fun.

slimkj
09-22-2012, 08:06 PM
To be blunt: I would much rather they made another ranged ED to satisfy you, or you used something else, as I really like Shiradi as it is. Your suggestions sound to me like they would make it more practical but extremely dull. No thanks.