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View Full Version : Completionist feat type - passive?



Zeklijan
08-23-2012, 12:10 PM
Here's the thing, it's very short and simple. I think the completionist feat should be an autogrant passive feat like the other passive past life feats.

Why does this make sense?
-> It's very hard to acquire, and it should be rewarding for everyone

->Alot of builds can't make use of that feat at all, because they don't have room for an active feat (otherwise messing up their build/lowering their power drasticly, sounds like a bad idea?)

-> It discourages some people to TR to completionist a toon that isn't a caster (let's face it, MOST melees don't have free feat slots for it and the benefits are much greater on a caster than a pure melee)

-> It becomes more attractive to get the feat as passive, and encourages players to TR, which generates income in hearts of wood/exp pots etc, and give them something to do for a while.


So yes, I think this feat should definitly be a passive feat!

pie2655
08-23-2012, 12:36 PM
it is passive

Uska
08-23-2012, 01:23 PM
it is passive

he meant free and you know it

Mathermune
08-23-2012, 01:32 PM
Stacking +2 to all stats, skill focus everything +3 when you include the bonus from the stats.

Worth a feat slot.


-> It's very hard to acquire, and it should be rewarding for everyone
It's a very good feat

->Alot of builds can't make use of that feat at all, because they don't have room for an active feat (otherwise messing up their build/lowering their power drasticly, sounds like a bad idea?)

Then don't take it, same reason my sorcerer doesn't take two handed fighting

-> It discourages some people to TR to completionist a toon that isn't a caster (let's face it, MOST melees don't have free feat slots for it and the benefits are much greater on a caster than a pure melee)

Grinding out well over 40 million xp and buying 13 true hearts is what stops people going completionist. Not that the completionist feat costs a feat slot.

-> It becomes more attractive to get the feat as passive, and encourages players to TR, which generates income in hearts of wood/exp pots etc, and give them something to do for a while.

Gives them something to do beyond grinding 13 past lives? You want to encourage TR's then drop the XP requirements for 2nd and beyond lives by 10%.

jandhaer
08-23-2012, 01:52 PM
maybe they should make it follow the lines of the other past life feats where there is a lesser feat that is passive (so even on builds that you just cant squeeze it into you gain something from all your effort) and the completionist feat as is (a good feat well worth taking) you are still required to choose. Seems like a win win.

CaptainSpacePony
08-23-2012, 03:40 PM
Grinding out well over 40 million xp and buying 13 true hearts is what stops people going completionist. Not that the completionist feat costs a feat slot.


Can we get a 2nd opinion on this?

V_mad_jester_V
08-23-2012, 07:46 PM
maybe they should make it follow the lines of the other past life feats where there is a lesser feat that is passive (so even on builds that you just cant squeeze it into you gain something from all your effort) and the completionist feat as is (a good feat well worth taking) you are still required to choose. Seems like a win win.

i like that idea right there

Zeklijan
11-21-2012, 09:51 PM
Stacking +2 to all stats, skill focus everything +3 when you include the bonus from the stats.

Worth a feat slot.


-> It's very hard to acquire, and it should be rewarding for everyone
It's a very good feat

->Alot of builds can't make use of that feat at all, because they don't have room for an active feat (otherwise messing up their build/lowering their power drasticly, sounds like a bad idea?)

Then don't take it, same reason my sorcerer doesn't take two handed fighting

-> It discourages some people to TR to completionist a toon that isn't a caster (let's face it, MOST melees don't have free feat slots for it and the benefits are much greater on a caster than a pure melee)

Grinding out well over 40 million xp and buying 13 true hearts is what stops people going completionist. Not that the completionist feat costs a feat slot.

-> It becomes more attractive to get the feat as passive, and encourages players to TR, which generates income in hearts of wood/exp pots etc, and give them something to do for a while.

Gives them something to do beyond grinding 13 past lives? You want to encourage TR's then drop the XP requirements for 2nd and beyond lives by 10%.


Did you say a very good feat? Are you playing DDO or pen and paper?

+2 to all stats and skills is overpowered in a setting of classic of DnD, but in a universe that casters get their casting stat in the 50s, skills in the 90s. you tell me that is a great feat?

Let's just compare it to passive sorcerer lives or passive wizard lives. +6 spell pen, +3 evo DCs. Nobody seems to think this is OP,but it's much better than a completionist feat for a caster setup and they are FREE

and your point that you say 'Don't take it, same reason I don't take THF on my sorc' it makes you sound like a first lifer buddy, you completely ignored how much effort and time is required to have access to the completionist feat in that comment

sandypaws
11-22-2012, 07:35 AM
Did you say a very good feat? Are you playing DDO or pen and paper?

+2 to all stats and skills is overpowered in a setting of classic of DnD, but in a universe that casters get their casting stat in the 50s, skills in the 90s. you tell me that is a great feat?


Not all stats are created equal. Do the stat boosts from completionist apply to feat prereqs?

Lurzifer
11-22-2012, 07:41 AM
No they dont count as prerequisites.

Completionist feat is basically a Skill Focus: All and +2 Stats so only very useful for builds that use alot of different skills and can make use of most if not all abilities.
Like Rogue, Paladin, Ranger or Splashes of those Classes.

Wouldnt mind it being passive, or getting an upgrade at some point ;)

Mastikator
11-22-2012, 12:13 PM
[snip]
-> It discourages some people to TR to completionist a toon that isn't a caster (let's face it, MOST melees don't have free feat slots for it and the benefits are much greater on a caster than a pure melee)[snip]
Um what? Classes like ranger, paladin, monk, rogue and artificer (and weird combos) are the ones that make best use of it, they make use of many ability scores and skills, casters only need 1 ability score and no skills, casters don't benefit more from it than melees that use Trip/Stun, as it equally increase CC DC as spell DC.

Munkenmo
11-22-2012, 12:51 PM
Grinding out well over 40 million xp and buying 13 true hearts is what stops people going completionist. Not that the completionist feat costs a feat slot.


Can we get a 2nd opinion on this?

I stopped at 3barb, 3fighter, 3monk, 3 paladin, 3artificer on my main melee because I can't fit in the completionist feat.

edit. if completionist were to end up being free, i would tr again today.

Gkar
11-22-2012, 01:15 PM
I will never have a completionist.

I've been saying this should be a free feat since Star, the first completionist, pointed out that it took a feat slot.

Sonos
11-22-2012, 01:37 PM
So this question comes up every few months and the point that really sells me on that it should be free is that some classes have plenty of room for the feat, while others really just gimp themselves a bit.

Some of the solutions are limiting: go human, go fighter or splash fighter, maybe others but very confining.

/signed again for free feat.

shadereaper33
11-22-2012, 02:04 PM
I am not saying that it should be free, or that it should cost a feat slot, as I haven't really decided one way or the other how I feel on this one yet, but I do feel that some of you are downplaying all of the benefits you get from the feat.

- +3 stacking bonus to all skills
- +2 stacking bonus to all stats
- +1 stacking bonus to all saves (from stats)
- +25 stacking max hp (from con bonus at level 25)
- +1 atk/dmg (from stats)
- +1/2 AC (from stats, depends on build type)
- +some miniscule amount of SP for casters (only mentioned for completeness
- +1 stacking bonus to spell/ability DC's

*edit: removed 1 item from the list, cause I'm an idiot sometimes :)

I think that is everything you actually get out of the feat. As you can see from the list, it is very versatile and quite powerful, even in the realm of DDO, as everything here stacks. These are all bonuses that you cannot get from any other source. Whether or not these bonuses are worth the feat slot is really something that depends on the actual build in question. There are a lot of feats that are useless for all builds (skill focus: heal) and a lot of feats that are useless for some builds (mental toughness on a fighter), so arguing that the completionist feat should be free just because you don't think it is worth a slot on your ultimate build doesn't actually mean that the completionist feat isn't good enough on its own to deserve the feat slot cost.

Ilindith
11-22-2012, 02:11 PM
It's been suggested at least a hundred times ever since the thing came out.

Not going to happen apparently.

Sonos
11-22-2012, 02:18 PM
I am not saying that it should be free, or that it should cost a feat slot, as I haven't really decided one way or the other how I feel on this one yet, but I do feel that some of you are downplaying all of the benefits you get from the feat.

- +3 stacking bonus to all skills
- +2 stacking bonus to all stats
- +1 stacking bonus to all saves (from stats)
- +25 stacking max hp (from con bonus at level 25)
- +1 atk/dmg (from stats)
- +1/2 AC (from stats, depends on build type)
- +some miniscule amount of SP for casters (only mentioned for completeness)
- +1 skill point/level (int bonus)
- +1 stacking bonus to spell/ability DC's

I think that is everything you actually get out of the feat. As you can see from the list, it is very versatile and quite powerful, even in the realm of DDO, as everything here stacks. These are all bonuses that you cannot get from any other source. Whether or not these bonuses are worth the feat slot is really something that depends on the actual build in question. There are a lot of feats that are useless for all builds (skill focus: heal) and a lot of feats that are useless for some builds (mental toughness on a fighter), so arguing that the completionist feat should be free just because you don't think it is worth a slot on your ultimate build doesn't actually mean that the completionist feat isn't good enough on its own to deserve the feat slot cost.

I think you might be missing the point. Yes it is a valuable feat., no question. The problem is that, unfairly it can be far more easy to squeeze in on certain classes over others. Some classes by default have an abundance of feat slots, while others are in the feat starved category. Put another way, if all classes had the same abundance this would not be an issue. However this is not the case and that is the only reason this question keeps being brought up.

Syllph
11-22-2012, 03:25 PM
while I agree with the OP fully, this comes up many times each year. The Devs have stated they are not interested in making it non-active. They believe it's powerful enough to warrant an active slot.

I respectfully disagree.

Postumus
11-22-2012, 03:37 PM
I think you might be missing the point. Yes it is a valuable feat., no question. The problem is that, unfairly it can be far more easy to squeeze in on certain classes over others. Some classes by default have an abundance of feat slots, while others are in the feat starved category. Put another way, if all classes had the same abundance this would not be an issue. However this is not the case and that is the only reason this question keeps being brought up.


I don't have much pity for min/maxers who "can't" slot this feat because it "gimps" their builds, so that argument doesn't sway me.

That said, I agree that it should not require a feat slot to take it and it should be like the other passive past life feats.

shadereaper33
11-22-2012, 04:24 PM
I think you might be missing the point. Yes it is a valuable feat., no question. The problem is that, unfairly it can be far more easy to squeeze in on certain classes over others. Some classes by default have an abundance of feat slots, while others are in the feat starved category. Put another way, if all classes had the same abundance this would not be an issue. However this is not the case and that is the only reason this question keeps being brought up.

The classes that have an "abundance" of feats have those extra feats to make up for a comparative lack of class features. This weird concept called "class balance" or something. If they suddenly decided to give paladins an extra half dozen feats on top of whatever they already have, fighters would be effectively gimped in comparison. Same with rogues, rangers, bards, basically any class that doesn't get extra feat slots. Fighters, monks, wizards, and artificers get extra feats because they don't get as many (or any) class abilities when compared to similar classes.

Forgeborn
11-22-2012, 04:29 PM
-snip-
but I do feel that some of you are downplaying all of the benefits you get from the feat.

- +1 skill point/level (int bonus)


-snip-


Might want to check that again, feat bonus to stats, doesn't qualify for prereqs or give skill points and all that stuff.

Feat is worth it though, as you pointed out, it gives a lot of benefits for a single feat slot, on top of all the past lives you already picked up (even though for most builds half the darn past lives they need to qualify are useless)

shadereaper33
11-22-2012, 04:43 PM
Might want to check that again, feat bonus to stats, doesn't qualify for prereqs or give skill points and all that stuff.

oops, thanks.

rehakp
11-29-2013, 07:37 AM
Ok some of you says its useless for some builds because of tight feat budget on those builds. You basically say there are builds that cant change any one their feats for this. Well first of all i want see that kind of build. I cant imagine any kind of build where completionist feat is far inferior compared to all other feats in that build. Second ... is it really problem of the feat or problem of the build that cant handle single feat swap ?
This feat is OP in many aspects and gives plenty of bonusses for many many builds and classes. Many more than any other single feat (even epic) can do.
Well if there is any build that really cant afford it and is totally useless for (whitch i doubt) then i only can say sorry for that poor build. But ... but then ... why the hell are you complaining about you want int free ?? You have your amazing super duper imba build that even completionist is inferior to every single feat in your shiny build ... why in the nine hells of abyss you want it for free if as you declared many times it gives "nothing" good for your build .... just ignore it if its that bad for you .. same way you are ignoring skillfocus:swimming and are not whining about it should at least give you waterbreathing.

PrimalConcreteSledge
11-29-2013, 12:07 PM
Did you say a very good feat? Are you playing DDO or pen and paper?

+2 to all stats and skills is overpowered in a setting of classic of DnD, but in a universe that casters get their casting stat in the 50s, skills in the 90s. you tell me that is a great feat?

Let's just compare it to passive sorcerer lives or passive wizard lives. +6 spell pen, +3 evo DCs. Nobody seems to think this is OP,but it's much better than a completionist feat for a caster setup and they are FREE

and your point that you say 'Don't take it, same reason I don't take THF on my sorc' it makes you sound like a first lifer buddy, you completely ignored how much effort and time is required to have access to the completionist feat in that comment

K let's compare it to something from DDO. Epic stat feats for example. You get +1 to your chosen stat. Min lvl 21. Nuff said.

FAQ
11-29-2013, 12:44 PM
As has been said before by others many times, I believe the Completionist Feat should become an autogrant feat when you do a 2x or 3x completionist.

IMO it should be:

-2x completionist: autogrant at level 5

-3x completionist: autogrant at level 3

-For just a 1x completionist, IMO it should stay as it is.

Ayseifn
11-29-2013, 02:11 PM
Think I've said this before in one of these threads but I wouldn't mind there being a PL feat slot that could take any PL feat including Completionist. Most of the PLs aren't worth taking and so sure it'd mean that same 4 or so decent ones keep getting recycled until you get completionist, but it'd at least add some nice flavour.

jskinner937
11-30-2013, 03:42 AM
Stacking +2 to all stats, skill focus everything +3 when you include the bonus from the stats.

Worth a feat slot.


-> It's very hard to acquire, and it should be rewarding for everyone
It's a very good feat

->Alot of builds can't make use of that feat at all, because they don't have room for an active feat (otherwise messing up their build/lowering their power drasticly, sounds like a bad idea?)

Then don't take it, same reason my sorcerer doesn't take two handed fighting

-> It discourages some people to TR to completionist a toon that isn't a caster (let's face it, MOST melees don't have free feat slots for it and the benefits are much greater on a caster than a pure melee)

Grinding out well over 40 million xp and buying 13 true hearts is what stops people going completionist. Not that the completionist feat costs a feat slot.

-> It becomes more attractive to get the feat as passive, and encourages players to TR, which generates income in hearts of wood/exp pots etc, and give them something to do for a while.

Gives them something to do beyond grinding 13 past lives? You want to encourage TR's then drop the XP requirements for 2nd and beyond lives by 10%.

Coming from a completionist:

1.) I have the feat available and I take it until I hit 20 then usually swap it out for a pre req for epic feats. Skills +2 is meh, because full UMD is achievable easily at epic anyways.; +2 stats is meh; for a melee TWF or THF feats & ranged combat feats (can you say versatility in EE) all have priority. For a caster who cares about DCs because the devs sure do not so MT, IMT and EMT all have priority.

2.) If I could fit it in I would take it.

3.) In favor of a "free" passive benefit.

jskinner937
11-30-2013, 04:24 AM
K let's compare it to something from DDO. Epic stat feats for example. You get +1 to your chosen stat. Min lvl 21. Nuff said.

Yeah and everybody takes those feats the second they have the chance...That's like saying nimble fingers is as completionists because it gives +2 to a few skills.

DrakHar
12-01-2013, 09:47 AM
Coming from a completionist:

1.) I have the feat available and I take it until I hit 20 then usually swap it out for a pre req for epic feats. Skills +2 is meh, because full UMD is achievable easily at epic anyways.; +2 stats is meh; for a melee TWF or THF feats & ranged combat feats (can you say versatility in EE) all have priority. For a caster who cares about DCs because the devs sure do not so MT, IMT and EMT all have priority.

2.) If I could fit it in I would take it.

3.) In favor of a "free" passive benefit.

I'm in favor of making it auto grant. I'm debating dumping it from my FIGHTER for crying out loud.

I will highly disagree what you said about DCs. Wizards are doing fine, even in EE, if they've built and specced for DC casting, anyhow.

If they didn't, then yeah, it doesn't work, but that's kind of the nature of save or die or save or suck spells.