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Kaunto
08-23-2012, 06:18 AM
Hello folks,

as the title says, I'm a new DDO Player. I have a D&D P&P experience limited to 2nd edition, and after that I played all the BG/IWD/NWN games. Now after years of break I'm back to a D&D game but, to quote a silly internet meme, "I dunno what I'm doing lol".

I'l like to ask advice for a Pure Drow Cleric solo/duo build.

I did my researches and I found dozens of Cleric builds, but several are quite old in date and I suppose that the game got changed in the meanwhile. Then again several are oriented to build a viable endgame character but as I said, I'll play mainly solo or with my Bro's Sorcerer so I can allow myself to play a non minmax race (I know Human would be the best choiche on the paper) because I'm not going to play endgame raids.

I don't have a real preference among Melee, TWF, THF or Caster damage, the only "restriction" for the build is to keep the Drow race (as it was gifted to me) and the Pure Class setup: so is there anybody that can help me?


PS: 2 builds, one for solo, one for duo would be welcome too as, should I ever get a level gap between my toon and my Bro's one, I may consider to roll 2 PGs.

Thankyou for your help! :)

Buggss
08-23-2012, 06:33 AM
In my opinion you have 2 options:

1) Totally ignore any advice, do what original players did and make your own mistakes, learn from them, get clarification from more experienced players at that time and start again with the benefit of that advice.

2) Ask for and accept advice as it's given, however odd it may sound, for example:

- Don't use drow for clerics, the better starting stats might look good but drow are fairly rare now as they don't TR too well as they only get the +2 and +4 to starting points on subsequent true resurrections added onto their 28 point builds and all other races go from 32 to 34 to 36.

- Definitely don't use "builds" during creation, almost everyone that used them wishes they hadn't.

I'm sure others can add more to this.

SirValentine
08-23-2012, 06:43 AM
- Don't use drow for clerics, the better starting stats might look good


Drow are maybe not "optimal", but would be fine. And they are very competitive if you only have access to 28-point build. If you have 32-point build, I'd personally pick Human, but race won't ruin you either way.



- Definitely don't use "builds" during creation, almost everyone that used them wishes they hadn't.


If you mean don't use one of DDO's built-in "paths", then I agree.

But if you actually mean don't use a build, I strongly disagree. Getting a build planned out is a much better idea than randomly pick stuff. That's a much easier way to cripple your character than picking the "wrong" race.

Satinavian
08-23-2012, 06:48 AM
There is a reason, why people concentrate on endgame in builds :

- The last levels require far more xp while their quests don't give it out a lot faster. So later levels take looonger.
- The earlier levels have the easier quests. Even a very very bad build can do early content still quite well, but might struggle later.


Now Drow cleric :

- I played one. It can be done and reach lv20 even in the hands of an unexperienced player
- It's not the best race for a cleric
- Most of the benefits a drow might bring to cleric builds really need multiclassing :
* high Int (and boni to search and spot) would help a trapper-cleric
* high Dex would help a two weapon using cleric, especially evasive cleric/monk

Does it really have to be Drow and Pure ?

Nich
08-23-2012, 06:55 AM
I recommend the following:

Starting stats:
- strenght 14
- dex 10
- con 12
- int 12
- wis 16
- char 14

Level up points
- Advised at least 4 in wisdom

Enhancement
- Read description and make your own choices there, wont play the game for you xD


Skills:
- Concentration
- Balance
- UMD (you ll love to cast blur on you, displacement, fireshields)

Alignement: Your personal preference, based on rp of your char if any (most might recommend you to go true neutral)

Feats, in that order:
- toughness (as a new player, few hp more might provide a better experience of the game, read less deaths, also you will melee while soloing quite a lot)
- extend (for buffs mainly)
- empower healing (the need to heal a decent amount starts to emerge)
- maximize (you re getting closer to decent damage spells)
- heighten ( a must, that i forgot thus the edit xD
- spell penetration (ennemies tend to have some spell resistance)
- quicken (this will become handy: for casual questing, means you can cast faster & rush when sp not an issue, for tough content a quickened Heal will be the difference between a wipe and a success)

Playstyle:

You are a good healer. You are also a decent caster (cc,isntakill spells, damage spells). You can melee and survive on normal and hard content provided you made decent equipment choice while leveling. You use longsword (thanks to faith Follower of the Sovereign Host enhancement), a heavy shield, and a full plate. Your AC provides 30-40% chance of being missed with minimal investment.

You will need to be moderately skilled to be effective.

chance2000
08-23-2012, 06:56 AM
I have run many clerics.
They are very workable even drow, they are very expensive.
They can be very stressful to run.
My 1st hint is drag some heal wands and scrolls to your shortcut bar.
If you do a good job as a cleric some will donate some coin to help.
I had one cleric that using a melee hireling was able to do elite water works at level 4 or 5 and only had 7 kills.
Clerics can solo, Duo is much more pleasurable.
As of update 6 I think it was heals not fighting draw agro.
If running with another person just hang back and heal.
Now I have capped 3 clerics 2 have been Tr'd one is still level 20.
For real enjoyment of the game I would not go Cleric if you are new.
As for the 28 and 32 point build thing a drow is a 32 point build.
My current level 20 cleric is a half elf with fighter Dilettante so she can use most weapons.

Buddrow
08-23-2012, 07:03 AM
Caster dmg is your best bet for an endgame drow Cleric. I would suggest STR 12, CON 14, and use your level up points for WIS.

Maximize and Empower are must have metamagics for solo play. Quicken spell will give you uninterrupted heals (not really necessary for small groups but indispensable for raids).

Heighten spell is also a good choice for higher DC's on Slay living and Destruction.

PNellesen
08-23-2012, 07:06 AM
I haven't played a Drow Cleric yet (plan to soon) but if you're just starting out, I'd recommend a Human or Half-Elf (if you have access to it). I personally like Clerics who can use two-handed weapons, so I also usually splash a level of fighter on a Human (and get 2 extra feats as a bonus over a pure non-Human) or take Fighter Dilettante on a Half-Elf. If I want to focus on casting, I go max-WIS, and if I want to focus more on melee I go max-STR. Regardless of which offensive focus I go with, healing is still a priority and they can all heal in any content without any problems.

For specific builds, you can't really go wrong with one of the cleric builds HERE (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=232660) (My first character was based on the "Warpriest of Siberys" in that thread, and I really had fun with it).

TheHolyDarkness
08-23-2012, 07:08 AM
Of all the things you could build with a drow, you want to build a pure cleric?

Not a sorc or a wizard or a paladin even?

Not an monk or an arty or a rogue or a bard?

Not even a cleric monk?

But it staunchly has to be a pure cleric with your "gift" of being a drow? Otherwise you can never, in a million years, see yourself as having fun?

You sure you can't possibly envision yourself regretting your time investment? You sure you can't possibly see you kicking yourself for needing to be so stubborn on this role play concept in the beginning of your DDO career?

Ok. Yeah, its suboptimal for sure but, fine, being a drow won't prevent you from being an adequate healer. It just sounds so...limited is all. To me.

So, just keep listening to other posters to follow on this advice. Continue not to ponder what else you could have designed. Sure, you'll heal as good as any other, but...not seeing you doing much else. It just sounds so...boring to me. Whatever.

~TheHolyDarkness Out~

Nich
08-23-2012, 07:13 AM
But it staunchly has to be a pure cleric with your "gift" of being a drow? Otherwise you can never, in a million years, see yourself as having fun?

To each his own really. I personaly could never, in a million years, see myself as having fun playing a character that looks like your avatar xD

Drelak
08-23-2012, 07:20 AM
Hello and Welcome!

Forget 2WF, as it needs either ranger splash or high DEX.
Either enjoy the higher AC of shield & 1H-weapon or use 2H weapon.
In the later case you can sink a whole lot of feats into it to be "effective", but it is not mandatory.

At start take one toughness feat. This lets You use toughness enhancements.
I'd aim for Radiant Servant prestige enhancement.

In the early levels metamagic feats are not too useful because they eat up the SP fast.
INT and DEX can be dumped, and fairly low CHA is usually enough.
WIS, CON and STR are important, but it depends on Your play style wether the order is WIS, CON, STR, or STR, CON, WIS or something else.

Don't forget that you can use hirelings. With my solo cleric usually travels either melee or cleric hireling.

Buggss
08-23-2012, 07:21 AM
.....If you mean don't use one of DDO's built-in "paths", then I agree......

Yes, obviously to be honest, don't use the paths on character creation.

unbongwah
08-23-2012, 07:41 AM
Here's what I consider a basic caster-focused drow cleric for a newbie:

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.14.02
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 20 True Neutral Drow Female
(20 Cleric)
Hit Points: 262
Spell Points: 1408
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 14
Reflex: 6
Will: 19

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(28 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 14 14
Dexterity 10 10
Constitution 14 14
Intelligence 10 10
Wisdom 16 24
Charisma 12 12

Level 1 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell


Level 2 (Cleric)


Level 3 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 4 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: WIS


Level 5 (Cleric)


Level 6 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell
Enhancement: Cleric Radiant Servant I
Enhancement: Drow Weapon Damage I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Improved Heal I
Enhancement: Improved Heal II
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Smiting I
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life I
Enhancement: Cleric Smiting I
Enhancement: Cleric Smiting II
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic I
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic II
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom I
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Vitality I
Enhancement: Cleric Improved Turning I
Enhancement: Cleric Wand and Scroll Mastery I
Enhancement: Cleric Wand and Scroll Mastery II


Level 7 (Cleric)


Level 8 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: WIS


Level 9 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Spell


Level 10 (Cleric)


Level 11 (Cleric)


Level 12 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: WIS
Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell
Enhancement: Cleric Radiant Servant II
Enhancement: Unyielding Sovereignty
Enhancement: Follower of the Sovereign Host
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Smiting I
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Life I
Enhancement: Cleric Smiting III
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic III
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom II


Level 13 (Cleric)


Level 14 (Cleric)


Level 15 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Heighten Spell


Level 16 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: WIS


Level 17 (Cleric)


Level 18 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Spell Focus: Evocation


Level 19 (Cleric)


Level 20 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: WIS
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Intervention
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Smiting II
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Smiting III
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Smiting II
Enhancement: Cleric Smiting IV
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic IV
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom III
Enhancement: Cleric Wand and Scroll Mastery III
Enhancement: Cleric Wand and Scroll Mastery IV


Epic feats: GSF & ESF Evocation (alternatively, take the Spell Pen / GSP / ESP feats instead of the Evo ones - depends on which spells you favor at endgame)

Normally I would start max WIS on a cleric like this by dumping STR; but it's tough playing a soloing pure caster cleric for the first several levels because you don't get any good DPS spells for a while. And since you're duoing with a sorc, it takes a few levels for his caster DPS to mature too. So base STR 14 + buff spells (Divine Favor, Bull's STR, later Divine Power) + drow racial dmg bonus + a decent rapier gives you modest but acceptable melee DPS for those early levels. Then you get Blade Barrier at lvl 11 and it's like, "what rapier?" :D [At which point you might want to redo your enhs and drop the drow weapon bonuses, which frees up 6 APs for, say, more Smiting crit enhs.]

Skills: max Concentration and either Balance, Spot, or UMD, with a rank of Tumble for good measure. UMD is the most useful skill overall, but it will take a lot of gear to get it to useful levels on a pure cleric; plus while being able to use arcane wands & scrolls would be a nice perk, it's not essential. Balance is important to everyone - the DPS & heal output of a prone char is zero ;) - while Spot meshes well with a high-WIS class even as a cross-class skill.

I started base CHA 12 partly for the extra Turn Undead to power your bursts/auras and partly so you have the option of taking Divine Might I after +2 CHA tome. But you could also put those 2 pts into INT instead to max out one more skill.

Finally, I would seriously advise you to consider a wiz splash, for an extra feat and Force I enh to boost your Blade Barriers (Flame I enh should boost Flame Strike, too). Being able to use arcane wands like Blur & Stoneskin free is a nice perk, as are a couple of the lvl 1 wiz spells (now that most have a min. duration of 5 mins), like Expeditious Retreat. The cleric capstone is meh and while the loss of a pt of Spell Pen is unfortunate, the pros outweigh the cons, IMHO.

Kaunto
08-23-2012, 07:57 AM
WoW, so many feedbacks in just the time of my lunch-break, thank you guys :)

Now some random replies:

Nope, I'm not going to use any of the 3 premade builds (Paths?) provided by the game: one of the things that any thread I read agreed on is that they are not correctly optimized, and that's why I asked for a customized build.

I choosed Cleric because I read it was one of the most enjoyable and viable class for soloing and because I liked it a lot in NWN2.
The other class I was considering is Sorcerer or Wizard. I'm not into plain melee class like Fighter or Barbarian and I never liked the Monk in D&D environment. I'm ok considering all the remaining classes as an alternative.

Restrictions: Drow yes, multiclassing well ok, nope. I saw that 90% of Melee Cleric Builds took 1-2 levels in Fighter or Paladin but I also read that splashing levels was not suggested for first characters, that's why I asked for a pure build. If it's common notion that MCing is necessary for a solo-keen build then I'm ok with it.

@Nich: I think (I'm not at home atm so cannot check) that the base stats you posted are the very same I rolled yesterday :)


EDIT @unbongwah: nice, detailed and newbie-friendly post, TY :)

unbongwah
08-23-2012, 08:52 AM
I choosed Cleric because I read it was one of the most enjoyable and viable class for soloing and because I liked it a lot in NWN2.
Another plus is clerics are also always welcome in PUGs because they're always looking for healers; the downside is they'll be expecting you to, well, heal, a role which you may or may not enjoy filling.

Restrictions: Drow yes, multiclassing well ok, nope. I saw that 90% of Melee Cleric Builds took 1-2 levels in Fighter or Paladin but I also read that splashing levels was not suggested for first characters, that's why I asked for a pure build. If it's common notion that MCing is necessary for a solo-keen build then I'm ok with it.Well, yes & no. The advantage to staying pure on a cleric is you gain your spells and Radiant Servant PrE ASAP; the downside is clerics are feat-starved, their capstone is kinda blah (or rather it's only situational useful while other capstones are always useful), and they're missing a few useful features, like Toughness enhs to boost their HPs or Force enhs to boost their Blade Barrier DPS (which will be one of your primary offensive spells vs trash mobs from cleric lvl 11 onwards). It isn't [I]bad to play a pure cleric; it's just in some ways better to splash, depending on what you want out of your build.

jbleargh
08-23-2012, 09:58 AM
The other class I was considering is Sorcerer or Wizard. I'm not into plain melee class like Fighter or Barbarian and I never liked the Monk in D&D environment. I'm ok considering all the remaining classes as an alternative.

Restrictions: Drow yes, multiclassing well ok, nope. I saw that 90% of Melee Cleric Builds took 1-2 levels in Fighter or Paladin but I also read that splashing levels was not suggested for first characters, that's why I asked for a pure build. If it's common notion that MCing is necessary for a solo-keen build then I'm ok with it.

@Nich: I think (I'm not at home atm so cannot check) that the base stats you posted are the very same I rolled yesterday :)


EDIT @unbongwah: nice, detailed and newbie-friendly post, TY :)

IMHO, if it is your first build, play whatever class combination you like and don't feel bad when/if it fails.

There is a lot to explore, experiment and learn. You should try more stuff before choosing a character to go all the way to the endgame.

Pure clerics of any race shape or form can pike their way to lvl 20, as it is not possible to make one that can't heal and there are lots of groups that "Need a healer".

Also, after you learn how to heal a party (habit of paying attention to other people's red bars and react properly) you don't need to "Know the quest" to be useful.

That said, the "healer" role is full "drama". Incompetent groups will blame you for their failures (and if you're new it's hard to know if it's really your fault or not).

DDO is very different from PnP. Not only the rules... Here you need hand and eye coordination. Running faster and jumping higher can make a huge difference in your gaming pleasure.

If you really want Drow and solo, go Pale Master Wizard. You will feel weak at lower lvls, but after you get Firewall at lvl 7 (iirc) things change dramatically.

Pure clerics get their solo ability and real offensive power when they get Divine Punishment and Blade Barrier (lvl 11, iirc).

I don't like melee clerics... Clerics can be very powerful casters. There is no need to waste time and resources swinging a sword.

IMHO, If you want to solo and swing a sword/greataxe, it is far more more efficient to make a Barbarian and use hirelings.

Satinavian
08-23-2012, 11:32 AM
I choosed Cleric because I read it was one of the most enjoyable and viable class for soloing and because I liked it a lot in NWN2.
The other class I was considering is Sorcerer or Wizard. I'm not into plain melee class like Fighter or Barbarian and I never liked the Monk in D&D environment. I'm ok considering all the remaining classes as an alternative.sounds more like caster cleric than melee cleric if it is still to be a cleric.

Restrictions: Drow yes, multiclassing well ok, nope. I saw that 90% of Melee Cleric Builds took 1-2 levels in Fighter or Paladin but I also read that splashing levels was not suggested for first characters, that's why I asked for a pure build. If it's common notion that MCing is necessary for a solo-keen build then I'm ok with it.There is one and only one reason, multiclass characters are not recommended for new players - to design a good multiclass character, you have to take into account, what all classes get on every levels, which enhancements are possible and how the abilities of different classes interact.

Or you could say, it is really easy to mess up a multiclass character.

But no, it is not necessary to multiclass a soloing cleric, esp. a caster focused cleric. But it could utilize the drow abilities making the cleric/drow slightly combination less bad.

Also a pure cleric has enough healing power to heal a full party. The class is designed to to that. Most solo builds trade some of this healing (which they don't need for one person) for some things other party members would usually provide. It's a versatility thing. Of course, getting class abilities of other classes usually requires multiclassing. Which is why most solo builds have splashes of other classes where group/raid-focused builds tend to stay pure more often.


But if you want to stay pure drow, Unbongwahs build seems a good choice.

Meat-Head
08-23-2012, 11:58 AM
Since you want to be able to solo AND you're open to a little multiclassing, here's my two cents:


18/2 Cleric Monk Drow.


14 str (6)
16 dex (6)
12 con (6)
10 int (0)
16 wis (10)
14 cha (4)


(or keep cha at 10 and bump STR to 16, both have advantages)


Feats caster focused (9):

Toughness (monk)
Emp Heal
empower
maximize
heighten
quicken
spell focus evocation
greater spell focus evocation
toughness (monk)

OR

melee capable with decent casting.

Toughness (monk)
Stunning fist (monk)
emp heal
maximize
quicken
heighten
improved two weapon fighting
greater two weapon fighting
empower OR power attack (empower if you started with 14 STR, PA if you started with 16 in my opinion)


BTW, the caster version is easier to play. The melee capable will end up being more fun (in my opinion)


EDIT: Unbogwahs's build above is solid. Though I also would strongly sugest the 1 wizard level if you're focusing on being a caster. Especially if you're really opposed to monk levels like you kind of suggested earlier.

LordMond63
08-23-2012, 06:13 PM
Welcome to DDO! May you find it a pleasant diversion from real life.

First, on behalf of the entire playing community, thank you for playing a Cleric. Goodness knows that there are almost never enough of them around. I, like you, enjoy playing healer-types (in my case going all the way back to Neverwinter Nights on AOL), and that should give you the patience to put up with the drama that others have alluded to that comes from being (or at least perceived as being) the 'main healer'.

I would agree with others who have said that Drow isn't the typical first choice of players for Clerics, mainly due to them not getting additional stat points in stats that are primary to Clerics and the hit they take to starting CON. I have a Drow Rogue that I truly enjoy playing and who is very capable, but she remains a good bit more fragile than other characters of her level, despite all of the enhancements to hit points I've given her. Now that isn't to say that choosing Drow is a deal-breaker for the class- I don't think it is- but you need to know the drawbacks to the race in order to be best prepared.

I would also agree with those who urge going "pure" Cleric all the way to level 20. It being your first character, it's just easier on you to do so your first time through the game. Once you gain some hard-earned experience, you can always Reincarnate your character to splash a couple-three levels in other classes- whatever best suits your evolving playstyle at that point.

ubongwah is absolutely right when he says that the fact Clerics are so much in demand means your levelling should prove to be a bit easier. Clerics solo only when they want to. All you need do is take a look at how many groups are looking for Clerics or Favored Souls ONLY. Conversely, there are far fewer groups waiting on, say, Rangers or Paladins before they take on the quest. This will have the advantage of getting you through the lower levels faster, building up your bankroll faster, and probably netting you some pretty good twink gear for your almost inevitable alts. I think you've got a good plan here.

Battlehawke
08-23-2012, 06:38 PM
Its doable! If things go well in U15, You are looking at the potential for a pretty good battle cleric with some very godly wrath! Most people are hesitant to post builds, because everything we know about PRE's is about to change. However a Tempest (Drow) Warpriest (Cleric) with the right Epic Destiny could be pretty nasty. No one knows yet, not even our wonderful developers, what the finished product will be. But there is potential. I'm thinking 14, 15, 14, 10, 16,12 or whatever is left. Go with Toughness, Empower Healing, Quicken, Maximize, TWF X3, and at Epics Empower and Improved Crit.

I'm excited. (Don't burst my fantasy Turbine).!!!

bbqzor
08-23-2012, 08:50 PM
I'l like to ask advice for a Pure Drow Cleric solo/duo build.

Thank you for doing some basic research before posting, normally I ignore these threads since google would solve it but I'll chime in here. As others have said, Pure Drow Cleric isn't as optimal as some other builds, but you've made it very plain you understand that and are okay with it. So into advice... caveat, theres as many different ways to do this as it seems, so don't be afraid to deviate if something which works for me doesn't for you.

Its very difficult to be a solo cleric and not melee at times. Additionally, heavy armor, shields, etc can get heavy. Don't ignore Str. Bulls Strength, and later Divine Power, both help here as you can ignore wearing a Str item. You'll want a real number here, 12-14.

Much more so than PnP, Con/HP are desirable. The Drows biggest weakness is the -2 con (and since they have no enhancement for it relative to humans, it can almost be like -3, even more if you count the missing rank of racial toughness). All told that can mean a huge HP loss, which is critical in the late game. Do not ignore Con, minimum of 12, and you would not be a fool going 14 here (which is like a 16 in cost due to racial penalty).

Wisdom is a big deal, but starting off I can't say I'd recommend an 18. If you were a TR and had all kinds of tomes/gear sure, but its expensive when you're starting off. Go with a 16 and save those valuable build points. Still worth putting your level up points here though, losing 1 dc is manageable but you don't want it to slip too low.

Charisma is pretty important. Reason being, the Cleric Prestige Enhancement (Radiant Servant) gives you some extremely good abilities which run off turns per day. Since Cha adds to them, you don't want to dump your Cha. I wouldn't pay 2:1 on it though, so maybe a 16 (which is like a 14 in cost due to racial buff).

So maybe something like Str 14, Dex 10, Con 12, Int 10, Wis 16, Cha 16 (after racial mods). If you want the 14 Con score, you can take 2 from Str and 2 from Cha (so 12/10/14/10/16/14). Level ups into Wis, and you should do alright.

For skills, don't miss out on Concentration. Later you may have Quicken Spell and not need it, and for vets who are sharp players you can skirt by without it until the higher levels, but you're new. Theres no problem starting slow and Concentration is a great safety net while you learn, and even practical to have later. I always max it out, because there are times and/or spells I don't want to use Quicken... but I still want them to go off 100% of the time I cast.

Balance is a good choice for your other point, you cannot heal if you're on the ground, and if you cannot heal the group may wipe. UMD is popular, but it tends to rely on having a lot of resources (both to buff the skill to high enough levels, and to afford all the stuff you use it on), so I'd skip it the first time through. Just focus on learning your own class's abilities, you can UMD some more in the next time around.

Feats are the area you're going to see the most ways to dice things. Personally, I would recommend:
Toughness- HP really are that important, and taking this unlocks the enhancements as well.
Empower Healing- I'll spare the long math explanation, but this feat is critical to high level healing as a cleric, and needed for the Prestige Enhancement.
Quicken Spell- Uninterruptable healing... need I say more. It also helps you cast some key slow-animation spells like Blade Barrier more quickly, which can likewise be a very critical ability at times.
Maximize Spell- This will help your offensive spells hit hard enough to stay relevant, and helps on mass cure spells as well.

For the last 3 feats, I'd try to pick some kind of "style". For example:
Battle Cleric- You enjoy being in the thick of things, letting your healing aura work to its fullest. Take Shield Mastery and Improved Shield Mastery, by getting hit for less, your aura is effectively healing a higher percentage of your incoming damage. It also helps your offense with doublestikes.
Sir Castalot- You enjoy spamming spells, and don't like having to skip casting while meleeing, or stand there doing nothing while the party fights. Take Mental Toughness and Improved Mental Toughness, the extra mana means you can cast more spells more often. Perhaps round this out with Extra Turning to get more uses of your Radiant Servant abilities and spam those as well.
Magical Boom- You enjoy offensive casting. Its not about casting a lot of spells, its about casting one spell and then winning as every mob fails to resist. Take Spell Focus Evocation and Spell Penetration. I'd add Heighten Spell for the last one here, to keep all your dcs at the top.

Gear wise, look for the best heavy armor you can find, and a heavy shield. "Of Invulnerability" is probably the best low-mid level suffix to look for. Weapon wise, Drow get racial proficiency with Rapiers, that will have the most advantageous profile for you to begin with. "Holy" tends to be the top prefix here, so look for a plus whatever Holy Rapier.

Alignment wise, Neutral Good or True Neutral are likely the best choices. Neutral Good allows the use of some "good" restricted gear (and much, much later on in epics can help you get around mob damage reduction). True Neutral allows "of Stability" suffix items which tend to be higher bonuses than their peer items, but again much later on in epics this will wash out. And obviously, as you're familiar with PnP, the more Neutral you are, the less exposed you are to incoming Alignment based damage like Unholy Blight etc, so True Neutral is generally most survivable in that regard.

For Enhancements, don't neglect your Prestige Enhancement, get that as soon as you can (level 6, also be sure you've taken the required feats before then). I'd also advise 1 rank in Divine Vitality, its a great tool to have around when partying (generally, 1 rank is sufficient). Beyond that just keep your Devotion Spell Power enhancements up to par, and consider putting 1 rank into Wand/Scroll Mastery. Frequently, once you're into the game a little bit, using Wands or Scrolls to heal (between fights, saving actual mana for more unique effects like crowd control, buffs, emergency mid-fight healing, etc) is of great assistance. Getting 1 rank in that helps quite a bit on that front.

Spell wise, theres a few spells of the lower levels worth checking out. Nimbus of Light does alright ranged damage for taking out annoying perched archer mobs. Nightshield blocks magic missiles, and can save you a ton of damage. Sound Burst is a fantastic CC spell. Resist Energy is so mandatory I'd say never unmemorize it, ever. Bulls Strength, Divine Favor, and Divine Power are all good melee buff spells (bulls wont stack with power, but you get bulls much earlier). Its worth playing around with the rest and figuring out what works for you.

That should be enough to get started with. Some of this advice is slightly different from other posts (like just recommending one spell penetration feat, as one example) because as you get higher up (like into epic 21+) access to different abilities changes how valuable I think some of those things are. I would never recommend something I didn't intend to use all the way to endgame, so thats my own bias creeping in. Additionally, spells like Divine Punishment, Blade Barrier, Heal, Destruction, Energy Drain, and Implosion are all pretty critical and as you get access to them can drastically change how a Cleric plays, especially when solo/duo... so check them out when you get to them. Finally, if you meet anyone with a good haggle score in your travels, perhaps a bard, its worth staying in touch. Clerics are especially prone to using many, many Heal Scrolls in the higher levels (say 15+). They're not cheap for a new player, so look for any advantage you can when stocking up once you're at that point.

Good luck, hope it helps.

eachna_gislin
08-24-2012, 06:43 AM
2) Ask for and accept advice as it's given, however odd it may sound, for example:

- Don't use drow for clerics, the better starting stats might look good but drow are fairly rare now as they don't TR too well as they only get the +2 and +4 to starting points on subsequent true resurrections added onto their 28 point builds and all other races go from 32 to 34 to 36.

I'm sure others can add more to this.

Would you be willing to clarify this a bit? Specifically, what happens when a drow TRs versus any other race?

I'm playing human now (28 point life). I was planning on going for drow next life, and other races after. I have unlocked 32 point builds. My interest in drow is them being particularly suited to TWF paladins.

My understanding was that when I TR I will go from a 28 point human to a 30 point drow. Then when I TRed a 3rd time, I would go from 30 point drow to 36 point "any other race"?

It almost sounds as if you're saying that it doesn't matter what race you TR into, there's some sort of permanent "stuck as a 28 point char" issue with having played a drow. So, in the same setup...I would instead go from 28 point human to 30 point drow to 32 point "any other race"?

Is this second example incorrect (I'm hoping it is)?

Furare
08-24-2012, 07:16 AM
Finally, I would seriously advise you to consider a wiz splash, for an extra feat and Force I enh to boost your Blade Barriers (Flame I enh should boost Flame Strike, too). Being able to use arcane wands like Blur & Stoneskin free is a nice perk, as are a couple of the lvl 1 wiz spells (now that most have a min. duration of 5 mins), like Expeditious Retreat. The cleric capstone is meh and while the loss of a pt of Spell Pen is unfortunate, the pros outweigh the cons, IMHO.

This post is mostly good advice, but note that you need two levels of wizard to get Force Manipulation I, not one. I don't know why, but that is how it is. I'm not sure it's worth splashing two wizard levels deep to get that enhancement. I'd stay pure and put points into UMD, personally, if you want to be able to self-buff wizard spells. Though I thought the OP said he was going to be levelling with a sorc? In which case most buffs you could want will be on tap. (Expeditious Retreat is easy to obtain on clickies, no need to multiclass.)


Specifically, what happens when a drow TRs versus any other race?

Drow get 30 points to spend on ability points as a TR 1, and 32 as a TR 2. All other races get 34 as TR 1 and 36 as TR 2. Really, drow get the same number of points as anyone else, but they pre-spend 2 points in Int and 2 in Cha before you get any say in the matter. If you TR your 30 point TR 1 drow into a human, you'll be a 36 point TR 2 human; you don't get any "hangover" from being a drow in a previous life.

Kaunto
08-24-2012, 07:49 AM
Thank you again for all the feedback, the amount of help in the replies was really precious :)

I rerolled a char with a build like the one suggested by unbongwah/bbqzor and i planned "on the paper" the skills/feats for a offensive caster that could swap to healer.

I also rolled a 2nd char with that dual wield build suggested by Meat-Head because looked fun. My old-school mindset never allowed me to think of a Dual-Rapier-Wielding Cleric so I created it to play when I'm not duoing with my Bro.

Just a couple of more questions regarding multiclass: can it be done anytime or must it be done at a specific level to get the most out of it? I see that mostly is done on lvl 1/2 or around 10-12.

Would 1 level of Sorc/Wiz be useful then for the caster Cleric? If so, at what level should i take it?

As I don't have monk, what would be a good splash for the Melee cleric? Fighter, Ranger or Rogue I guess? In case, at what level would it be reccomended?

zorander6
08-24-2012, 08:21 AM
Fighter would be the best splash to give you access to melee weapons. As for soloing my first character (who's level 18 since I level slowly) was an elf with 14 str, base dex, 12 con, 16 wis, base int, and 8 cha. I've solo'd a lot of quests with him and never really had too much trouble. This was before radiant servant came out and even after with a couple enhancements and a dropped tome I have 10 bursts/aura's on him. Admittedly I did Lesser Reincarnate him to a 32 point build but if you plan ahead and take things slow (and a hireling with DV is nice) you can solo a lot of quests. Drow admittedly isn't my favorite but just be patient. Also run some PUGs (Pick Up Groups) with your cleric to get used to that dynamic, sure you'll find idiots but you may run into some fun people to play with as well.

Don't bother with ranger or rogue with cleric, your dex/int is going to be too low for them to help you any.

Just my half cent's worth.

unbongwah
08-24-2012, 09:52 AM
My understanding was that when I TR I will go from a 28 point human to a 30 point drow. Then when I TRed a 3rd time, I would go from 30 point drow to 36 point "any other race"?
The first time you TR a character (regardless of which race it was or whether it was a 28- or 32-pt build for its first life), you can TR into a 30-pt drow or 34-pt any-other-race. The second time you TR (and each subsequent life), you can TR into a 32-pt drow or 36-pt any-other-race. I.e., drow always count as having 4 more build pts than other races because of their racial stat bonuses.

This post is mostly good advice, but note that you need two levels of wizard to get Force Manipulation I, not one.
Actually, you only need one lvl of wiz to get FM I; but you need to be at least a lvl 2 char to take it. I was a bit surprised to discover that, because I thought you had to be a lvl 2 wiz too; but test it for yourself if you doubt me. :)

I also rolled a 2nd char with that dual wield build suggested by Meat-Head because looked fun. My old-school mindset never allowed me to think of a Dual-Rapier-Wielding Cleric so I created it to play when I'm not duoing with my Bro.
I haven't updated them in a looong time, but have a look at my battle clerics thread; there's a TWF elf build which is pretty easy to adapt to drow instead. The tough part about playing a BC (particularly a TWF one) is balancing your stats & feats, esp. if you're new to DDO and don't have any platinum, twink gear, etc. you can use to "spruce up" your char.

Just a couple of more questions regarding multiclass: can it be done anytime or must it be done at a specific level to get the most out of it? I see that mostly is done on lvl 1/2 or around 10-12.When it comes to MCed clerics, I usually either front-load the splash to benefit from the other class right away (e.g., ftr splash @ lvl 2 for extra feat, Toughness I, Haste Boost I, and marital weapons prof.); or backload it `til after cleric lvl 11 or 12 (e.g., take a wiz splash after you have Blade Barrier & Rad Serv II).

Meat-Head
08-24-2012, 10:22 AM
Actually, you only need one lvl of wiz to get FM I; but you need to be at least a lvl 2 char to take it. I was a bit surprised to discover that, because I thought you had to be a lvl 2 wiz too; but test it for yourself if you doubt me. :)



This is correct, and you saved me from having to tell him. :)




When it comes to MCed clerics, I usually either front-load the splash to benefit from the other class right away (e.g., ftr splash @ lvl 2 for extra feat, Toughness I, Haste Boost I, and marital weapons prof.); or backload it `til after cleric lvl 11 or 12 (e.g., take a wiz splash after you have Blade Barrier & Rad Serv II).

This is good advice. I tend to do the front-load thing myself. I like my non-clericy stuff early. But it works either way.



As to TWF Rapiers on a Drow Cleric.. It can work. If you want to REALLY focus on melee actually drow are solid choices because you can get access to divine might 3. Divine might builds are one of the very few things Drow do well. Here's what I would do (notice the low wisdom, so this is NOT a caster build, but you can still heal well):


16 STR (10 points)
16 DEX (6 points) need a +1 tome at some point which is cheap
12 CON (6 points)
10 INT (0 points)
12 WIS (4 Ponts)
16 CHA (6 points) +2 tome gets you access to divine might 3.

Feats: Toughness, Emp Heal, Maximize, twf, itwf, gtwf, Power Attack, quicken, improved critical piercing (rapiers)

Either 18 cleric and 2 fighter OR 17 cleric, 2 Pally, and 1 Fighter. The first gives you more spell points and spell slots. The second gives you great saves (which clerics can use) but less spell points and you have to give up one feat.

Furare
08-24-2012, 10:42 AM
Actually, you only need one lvl of wiz to get FM I; but you need to be at least a lvl 2 char to take it. I was a bit surprised to discover that, because I thought you had to be a lvl 2 wiz too; but test it for yourself if you doubt me. :)

Huh, I definitely had a cleric that was splashed 1 wizard that couldn't take the force enhancement line, and that was level 8 or 9 before I deleted it for good. They must have changed that recently, because I have tested it for myself in the past and found the information I gave to be true. I wasn't just reading the wiki. :P

I don't really make caster clerics, myself; my one and only high level cleric is a 2 fighter splashed THF battle cleric. I took the first fighter level at 2 and the second at 14, after Radiant Servant II. My first fighter bonus feat was Power Attack and the second Improved Critical: Slashing. Given TWF is a substantially different build, you might want to put different feats in those slots.

unbongwah
08-24-2012, 11:31 AM
16 STR (10 points)
16 DEX (6 points) need a +1 tome at some point which is cheap
12 CON (6 points)
10 INT (0 points)
12 WIS (4 Ponts)
16 CHA (6 points) +2 tome gets you access to divine might 3.
That's 32 pts on a drow; pretty sure the OP isn't a double-TR. :)

unbongwah
08-24-2012, 12:14 PM
My build for a TWF drow cleric is pretty similar to Meat-Head's. It's a little tougher to pull off than a standard pure cleric because of the tomes involved; and the lower base WIS means you need to invest in WIS items sooner (or put some APs into WIS enhs). I also haven't figured out what do with epic levels / feats yet. But if you're up for the added challenge, it should be a fun, versatile build: melee, heals, buffs, some caster DPS from light spells & Blade Barrier.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.14.02
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 20 True Neutral Drow Female
(2 Fighter \ 17 Cleric \ 1 Wizard)
Hit Points: 272
Spell Points: 1022
BAB: 14\14\19\24
Fortitude: 15
Reflex: 8
Will: 14

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(28 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 14 22
Dexterity 16 17
Constitution 12 14
Intelligence 10 10
Wisdom 12 14
Charisma 16 18

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 8
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 17
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 20
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 20
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 20

Level 1 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 2 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Two Weapon Fighting


Level 3 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell


Level 4 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: STR


Level 5 (Cleric)


Level 6 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell


Level 7 (Cleric)


Level 8 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: STR


Level 9 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting


Level 10 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Piercing Weapons
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Cleric Radiant Servant I
Enhancement: Drow Weapon Damage I
Enhancement: Drow Weapon Damage II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Improved Heal I
Enhancement: Improved Heal II
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Smiting I
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life I
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Smiting I
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Life I
Enhancement: Cleric Smiting I
Enhancement: Cleric Smiting II
Enhancement: Cleric Smiting III
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic I
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic II
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic III
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Might I
Enhancement: Cleric Improved Turning I
Enhancement: Cleric Wand and Scroll Mastery I
Enhancement: Cleric Wand and Scroll Mastery II


Level 11 (Cleric)


Level 12 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell


Level 13 (Cleric)


Level 14 (Cleric)


Level 15 (Wizard)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Empower Spell
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting


Level 16 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: STR


Level 17 (Cleric)


Level 18 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Precision (or Power Attack)


Level 19 (Cleric)


Level 20 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: STR
Enhancement: Cleric Radiant Servant II
Enhancement: Unyielding Sovereignty
Enhancement: Follower of the Sovereign Host
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Smiting II
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Smiting III
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life II
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Smiting II
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Life II
Enhancement: Flame Manipulation I
Enhancement: Cleric Smiting IV
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic IV
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Might II
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Might III
Enhancement: Cleric Wand and Scroll Mastery III
Enhancement: Cleric Wand and Scroll Mastery IV


I listed the tomes at the lvls necessary in order to make the build work as planned. +1 DEX tome is for ITWF & GTWF pre-reqs; +2 CHA tome is for Divine Might III (adds +6 dmg for 1 min). All other tomes are optional (but obviously desirable).

The wiz splash can be dropped and Empower delayed until lvl 21; that leaves Radiant Servant III open as an option when we finally get it.

bbqzor
08-24-2012, 05:56 PM
Would you be willing to clarify this a bit? Specifically, what happens when a drow TRs versus any other race?
As others have said, each TR is basically +2 build points. So 2 more than whatever you would have had. For Drow it goes 28/30/32, for normal races it goes 32/34/36 (or 28/34/36, if you didn't have 32pts unlocked the first time through). So yes, going Drow, Drow, Non-Drow would mean you'd get 28/30/36 points in that order.


Just a couple of more questions regarding multiclass: can it be done anytime or must it be done at a specific level to get the most out of it? I see that mostly is done on lvl 1/2 or around 10-12.

Would 1 level of Sorc/Wiz be useful then for the caster Cleric? If so, at what level should i take it?

As I don't have monk, what would be a good splash for the Melee cleric? Fighter, Ranger or Rogue I guess? In case, at what level would it be reccomended?

MC can be done anytime, but is only a good choice some of the time. Level 1 is common because of skill points (x4 on the first level, so say a 19x/1rog, would want the 1 rog at level one to get the x4 on an 8 point base), as one example.

One lvl of wiz/sorc on a Cleric is a bad mistake IMO, I would never consider that. YMMV.

On a melee cleric non-monk, splashing fighter is probably your best bet (18/2). The feats and proficiencies are pretty useful. Rogue would allow evasion, but that would negate using heavy armor, and I would much rather have the armor/tower shield options and the 2 bonus feats myself.

I would either take fighter 1 at level 2 (proficiencies right away), at level 4 (so you have level 2 spells first before delaying them), or at level 7 (after Radiant Servant 1). Don't take the second level until after Radiant Servant 2 (so lv 14 or later). I'm sure there are other ways to do it, thats just what I would do. Cheers.

Meat-Head
08-24-2012, 06:55 PM
That's 32 pts on a drow; pretty sure the OP isn't a double-TR. :)

/oops


I need to LRN2PLY

Meat-Head
08-24-2012, 07:06 PM
One lvl of wiz/sorc on a Cleric is a bad mistake IMO, I would never consider that. YMMV.





I don't understand this thinking. My assumption is that it's some sort of weird knee-jerk about not wanting to mix arcane and divine casters.


1 wiz is a great splash for a caster cleric.

Here's what you get:

-free magic feat
-Use of arcane wands without umd
-Use of some lvl 1 arcane spells
-Essentially NO loss of sp like you would get by splashing fighter due to the fact that you will get some SP from your INT modifier plus some base wizzy sp.
-+40 Spellpower force enhancement
-+40 Spellpower fire enhancement



Here's what you lose:

-1 spell penetration
-1 level 9 spell slot
-1 level 8 spell slot
-1 level 1 spell slot
-Access to divine might IV
-Capstone



Now, in my opinion, the gains are far more beneficial than the losses on a caster cleric.


Am I missing something that makes this bad?

bbqzor
08-24-2012, 09:46 PM
Before even going farther, I said "IMO" and "YMMV", and I do mean that. Its never anything I would do, but that doesn't make it a bad idea for everyone. Personally, for a new player I think avoiding it would be easier to learn on (less different things to manage, track, boost, etc), and for a vet like myself I would rather have the cleric set of abilities hands down in epic content. Preface done, heres some responses in red.


Here's what you get:
-free magic feat True
-Use of arcane wands without umd Can just UMD
-Use of some lvl 1 arcane spells In almost all cases, can just UMD or get an equivalent item, also may need to contend with spell fail
-Essentially NO loss of sp like you would get by splashing fighter due to the fact that you will get some SP from your INT modifier plus some base wizzy sp. Depends on your setup, but a few mana one way or the other isn't generally cause for concern
-+40 Spellpower force enhancement True
-+40 Spellpower fire enhancement Not really concerned with fire damage on a cleric, all three fire spells are pretty subpar

Here's what you lose:
-1 spell penetration Critical
-1 level 9 spell slot Critical to important, a 19/1 can get by, a 17/x may not
-1 level 8 spell slot Eh
-1 level 1 spell slot Eh
-Access to divine might IV Eh
-Capstone For how I play, Critical, others have their own opinions; additionally on a 18/2 or 17/x this may already be lost
-1 Caster Level (you didn't list this, but it can be very relevant for things like mass cures/heals, radiant abilities, etc... BB caps out but other things don't)

Now, in my opinion, the gains are far more beneficial than the losses on a caster cleric. Am I missing something that makes this bad? I'd rather have the caster level, spell pen, high level slots, capstone, etc .. than a feat and 40 spell power on blade barrier/cometfall.
So again, that's just my opinion. I think, especially for a new player, the simpler/easier/more traditional route is probably better to learn on, but this kind of evaluation does show there are options to be had and no one way to make a "best" build, just whats best for you. As long as the final product ends up "in the ballpark" so to speak, things are generally fine. DDO isn't so difficult it mandates perfect clone builds, but that doesn't mean there aren't a plethora of ways to build useless characters either. 1 Wiz can work, but its definitely not for me.

And props for the dialogue post instead of something less contributing. Cheers.

AbyssalMage
08-24-2012, 11:11 PM
If your going pure, its nearly impossible to screw up a Cleric, even if its Drow.

Max Wisdom (My preference, max your DC on spells :) ).
14 Constitution
Last 2 points in Strength.

Feats:
1) Toughness
3) Extend Spell*
6) Empower Healing (required here at 6)
9) Empower Spell
12) Maximize Spell*
15) Quicken Spell
18) Heighten Spell

Alternative:
Toughness, Empower Healing, Empower, Quicken, Heighten, Spell Pen (or SF: Necro), and Greater Spell Pen (or GSF: Necro).
Both work, just pick what works best for you and your play style.

I would suggest making a Human 18/2 Cleric/Fighter: 16, 8, 14, 8, 16, 10. Feats: (1) Toughness, (H) Power Attack, (F) THF, (3) Empower Healing, (6) ITHF, (9) Empower, (12) GTHF, (15) Maximize (F) IC: Slash, (18) Quicken.

Your taking Fighter early for the "free" martial weapon proficiency and holding off on the second level until after you get Blade Barrier. You honestly don't need the second level of fighter but the "free" feat is nice :)

Video documentary: a 1st-life's journey to 20 (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=386042) It isn't how I play my cleric but its very similar.

aeroplanefly
08-27-2012, 08:32 PM
I'm sure drow can make great clerics. I may recommend something that hasn't been said before however. While I have yet to roll a drow cleric as of yet, I've rolled a drow bard with 14 con, and 10 strength- maxing out his charisma and dumping everything else. With the right items, HP was hardly a problem.

A drow cleric will shine with turning convictions, and while a huge portion of the DDO population prefers radiant blasts, if you can turn like a boss, you'll put undead in their place.

I may recommend:
str:10 dex:10 con:14 int:10 wis:16 cha:16

Rather than taking extend, take a feat of improved turning. That feat effectively gives you a +1 to at least the first (and maybe the second?) die roll for turning.

You may actually turn better than most clerics of any other race, and you will certainly be making most undead lie prone until they're dead. You will have -1 to your DCs compared to a cleric with 18 wisdom, and sometimes making up for it (ie enchantment / evocation focus) might not suffice. You will have less spell points, but with balance, more ways to conserve spell points. (ie, take divine light, maybe put enhancement points to light / alignment... you certainly won't be putting points into rapiers / short swords!)

Most importantly, good luck!

Meat-Head
08-27-2012, 10:46 PM
Before even going farther, I said "IMO" and "YMMV", and I do mean that. Its never anything I would do, but that doesn't make it a bad idea for everyone. Personally, for a new player I think avoiding it would be easier to learn on (less different things to manage, track, boost, etc), and for a vet like myself I would rather have the cleric set of abilities hands down in epic content. Preface done, heres some responses in red.


So again, that's just my opinion. I think, especially for a new player, the simpler/easier/more traditional route is probably better to learn on, but this kind of evaluation does show there are options to be had and no one way to make a "best" build, just whats best for you. As long as the final product ends up "in the ballpark" so to speak, things are generally fine. DDO isn't so difficult it mandates perfect clone builds, but that doesn't mean there aren't a plethora of ways to build useless characters either. 1 Wiz can work, but its definitely not for me.

And props for the dialogue post instead of something less contributing. Cheers.


I appreciate the dialogue as well.

Responses to your responses:

Losing 1 spell pen is not critical to me because clerics don't have the feats to have awesome spell pen anyway imo. I'd rather focus on evocation/light spells that don't require spell pen. Hence why I want my BB hitting as hard as possible. Therefore, the force enh on wizzy is gravy.

Also, with some builds you have to dump CHA. That makes the arcane wand usage and lvl 1 wizzy spells handy if you don't wanna gear swap to get scrolls done.

Lastly, you COULD use that wizzy feat to take a spell pen feat for a net gain. Just sayin'.

Matter of opinion. But I like it. (obvs :P )

unbongwah
08-27-2012, 11:34 PM
Rather than taking extend, take a feat of improved turning. That feat effectively gives you a +1 to at least the first (and maybe the second?) die roll for turning.
Who bothers with turning undead when you can just blast them with bursts? :confused:

JollySwagMan
08-28-2012, 12:18 AM
Who bothers with turning undead when you can just blast them with bursts? :confused:

Indeed, though bursts seem to have been nerfed a bit, I found them to still be effective for nuking undead + healing at the same time :)

As for who bothers with Turn Undead...some folks apparently! I was accused of spreading misinformation when mentioning the Turn Resistance that some mobs have in a recent thread on this topic. On the plus side, it spurred me to actually compile some links relevant to turning.

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=331977
http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?p=1556364#post1556364
http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=328794
http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=367872

I should add, I really do not recommend the Improved Turning feat for Clerics. Extra Turning on the other hand...I make lots of use of on Dwarf and WF Clerics. I even take it on other races sometimes, usually swapping it out before 12.

bbqzor
08-28-2012, 02:02 AM
Opps didn't see this right off.


Losing 1 spell pen is not critical to me because clerics don't have the feats to have awesome spell pen anyway imo. I'd rather focus on evocation/light spells that don't require spell pen. Hence why I want my BB hitting as hard as possible. Therefore, the force enh on wizzy is gravy.
Sure, personal preferences. I guess I just look at it in terms of return. With BB, the 40 spell power is worth about 30 damage per pass (assuming I got my math right). Which means that for every 10 passes through the blades, its worth about 1 free one, ballparked. Since its relatively easy to just do another ring around the circle its just nothing that ever seemed worthwhile. I mean its not not useful or anything, its just something I would never give up things for.

Especially not things like raw caster level, which while the pen is nice, matters much more on the aura, burst, mass cure/heals, etc. Again, personal preference and all, but I prefer healing to stay topped off so in clutch situations it comes through easier, while BB kiting tends to be controlled and easy to add a few loops with. Obviously, that may vary person to person. I throw my chips down on healing, since sometimes you don't get a second chance there. But if you solo a lot and bb kite always on the edge or something, maybe its more important there to get things dead a hair faster so you're at risk for a shorter time period. But that starts to be a play style fit better by a FvS, imo.

Anyhow I'm not sure I have much else to add on it, I'm sure both work (the maths just not large enough either way to push either option out of balance), and the games probably better off for allowing a diversity of options. But every options got its fans, so here we are. After force worked on BB but before the spell power changes, when the enhancement would've been multiplied out by metas, and when the cleric stuff basically capped out due to rounding at lv20, it seems a much more plausible option. Now, with EDs out, I'm just too into maximizing the prestige and related abilities to change teams =p. But, it was an informative discussion, less clean cut than I felt it was originally, even if in the end opinions went unchanged. Cheers mate, and GL cleric-ing (goodness knows clerics need it heh).

Alrik_Fassbauer
08-28-2012, 04:20 AM
In my opinion you have 2 options:

1) Totally ignore any advice, do what original players did and make your own mistakes, learn from them, get clarification from more experienced players at that time and start again with the benefit of that advice.

2) Ask for and accept advice as it's given, however odd it may sound, for example:

Personally, I opt for option three : A mish-mash of both. ;)

And, yes, I'm currently playing a Drow Cleric, too. He is a mixture between undead's worst fears and a battling melee Cleric.

Through planning I got his Prestige Enhancement early (level 7).
It makes life somewhat easier.

You can find out what to need for it (assumed you really want to get it) by hitting "show unavailable", then look for the prestige enhancement, and then look what its requirements are.

Edit : And I manually built him during character creation by looking at the desired path, then abandon it after scribbling all of the stats down on a sheet of paper, and then kind-of re-build that path manually by distributing the points a bit differently (personally, I had put more a few more points into CON and into CHA).