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Mamba_Lev
08-21-2012, 11:47 AM
Probably going to take this toon to level 25 but i understand that epic leve;ls are different to normal levels so i was wondering what to do with my last level.

Got the Rogue level initially as it gets on my **** finding chests i can't unlock, and i didn't know the game and therefore not about Knock, kept the Rogue for the skill points when i GR'ed as i wanted UMD as well as the hide, move silently and balance. The latter i see no benefit from as it seems to take just as long to get up.

I would like opinions on the final level. If all i get from Wizard 19 are a few more 8 and 9th level spells slots i think there will be a better choice. Nice feature from reincarnating is that it doesn't take your chosen spells and just let's you pick more so i have pretty much every single spell, even 8 and 9th level as i had a LR to make a better job of the Shadow Mage build. Since i am not pure i can't see any super special bonus feat getting to 20.

For the moment at least i'm sneaking round solo or getting a WF Fighter when i get bored and going in gung ho, weakest areas are tank and melee damage, so i am thinking Monk or Fighter but i don't know enough about any classes to make a choice.

On a side note does anyone know what type of damage the Disintegrate spell is, nothing in the Wiki or in game i think it's untyped and governed by force but i'm not sure. I seem to remember a target dummy i could fire spells at to get the damage and check but i can't remember if that was this game or another.

All idea's are welcome and thanks in advance.

FrozenNova
08-21-2012, 12:50 PM
The forums find it difficult to advise on a build in progress when we have no information on what said progress is.
Nonetheless, the other level is also rogue, since with some effort and insightful reflexes you can reach a worthwhile reflex to power evasion.

Yes, disintegrate is untyped and affected by force enhancements.

Your post gives the impression that you did not take trap skills (since a wizard would not have the spare skillpoints for hide, MS, and balance, after taking trap skills and umd). That ought to be rectified.

slimkj
08-21-2012, 12:57 PM
weakest areas are tank and melee damage, so i am thinking Monk or Fighter but i don't know enough about any classes to make a choice.
I don't think adding a Monk or Fighter level will do much to improve them, dependent on your existing build. If you've not planned to run as a battlemage, you're probably not going to help matters by adding a melee class single level.

Probably better, if base build not set up for melee adaptability, to either go 2 Rog for Evasion as suggested, or lose the Rog lvl and go pure for the tasty Wiz capstone. The Hide/MS/OL scores you want can still be attained through the right gearing for most of the game without splashing Rogue.

icekinslayer
08-21-2012, 01:44 PM
The Hide/MS/OL scores you want can still be attained through the right gearing for most of the game without splashing Rogue.

open lock is for rogues or artificers only.

slimkj
08-21-2012, 02:12 PM
Oops yes, correct. I didn't mean to add OL, I was on autopilot reading the skills from above. Didn't he say he worked out Knock now though?

Not that it's effective for some content, though.

Merlin-ator
08-21-2012, 03:22 PM
Take a second level of Rogue. The Evasion will be very helpful for trapping in FR. Due to Search and Disable Device both being Int-based, a well-built, well-geared well-played 18Wiz/2Rogue's Search/DD scores will be about the same or better than a well-built, well-played, well-geared Rogue. In retrospect, I probably should have splashed 2 Rogue onto my Wiz instead of going for the capstone. Rogues might win out, but only because they get enhancements to make up for not dumping every stat but Int and Con.

Mamba_Lev
08-21-2012, 03:39 PM
Yup got the Trap skills and according to the wiki, i need 74 points spent not 20 levels of wizard. So i will get teh capstone if i take a 19th level of Wizard.

Progress as follows.

Ability Scores

Total:Base:Inherent:Feat(INT only):Enchanted
STR 15 8+1+6
DEX 22 15+1+6
CON 22 15+1+6
INT 33 22+1+4+6
WIS 14 8+6
CHA 14 8+6

HP 238 - Nothing equipped, 325 with items.
SP 1536 - Nothing equipped, 1617 with items

A/C 29 with items

FS 12
RS 19
WS 13
BAB 9
SR 0
Fort 10% goes to 110 when in wreath form which i always am

Skills - Nothing equipped

Balance 10
Bluff -1
Concentration 25
Diplomacy 3
Disable Device 18
Haggle 3
Heal -1
Hide 16
Intimidate 3
Jump 1
Listen -1
Move Silently 16
Open Lock 0
Perform 0
Repair 8
Search 18
Spot 7
Swim -3
Tumble 0
UMD 21

Feats

Empower Spell
Extend Spell
Maximise Spell
Insightful Reflexes
Mental Toughness
Improved Mental Toughness
Toughness x 3
Two Weapon Fighting
Spell Focus: Necromancy
Greater Spell Focus: Necromancy
Heroic Durability?

Enhancements, changes frequently or has been.

Named Items Equipped

Scepter of the Ogre Magi
Vampiric Fury Shortsword
Wrath of Sora Kell set
Righteous Bracers - Havn't found anything better yet
Belt of thoughtful Remembrance
Sustaining Symbiont

Inventory
Coronation Shield
Mantle of the Worldshaper
Silver Flame Talisman
Twisted Talisman
Minos Legens
Vampiric Blade of Fury
Bloody Cleaver

Hope that helps.

FrozenNova
08-21-2012, 03:44 PM
No. You will not get a capstone if you are not pure.. That's sort of the point.

In terms of the forum's advice on a wizard that took three toughnesses, imp mental toughness, and two weapon fighting? Reroll is the only meaningful answer here, unless you love feat swaps.

Ryiah
08-21-2012, 04:32 PM
Yup got the Trap skills and according to the wiki, i need 74 points spent not 20 levels of wizard.

At the top of the wiki entry (http://ddowiki.com/page/Capstone_enhancements)...



Multiclass characters are not eligible for capstone enhancements because their levels are split among several classes, none reaching level 20.




Feats

Empower Spell
Extend Spell
Maximise Spell
Insightful Reflexes
Mental Toughness
Improved Mental Toughness
Toughness x 3
Two Weapon Fighting
Spell Focus: Necromancy
Greater Spell Focus: Necromancy
Heroic Durability?

Normally I wouldn't do this but I'm going to recommend you stop reading the Wiki. It is more geared, in my opinion, for players who understand the basics of the game and may not be worded the best. Heroic Durability is free to all characters.

Now that aside, don't take Mental Toughness or Improved Mental Toughness. Unless you are required to take them for something, like Wraith form or Archmage, you should not take them. To a new player that might sound like a nice chunk, but at end game it will only be a small percentage of your total SP. There are also ways to get SP back involving items like the Torc and Conc-Op so you won't need the extra capacity.

Second, don't take three Toughnesses. Take more important feats. You're obviously missing Heighten. Spell DC is calculated as 10 + the spell level + your class stat modifier + any feats/enhancements/items. So a level 6 spell will have three DC lower than a level 9 spell. Heighten pushes the spell level for all your spells affected by Heighten to level 9. So a level 1 spell that is heightened will be equivalent DC to a level 9 spell.

Also you're lacking Spell Penetration feats. Spell Penetration effects your ability to penetrate enemy Spell Resistance. It is calculated first before Spell DCs are calculated. If you don't penetrate Spell Resistance your spells do not land. For a first life character, especially with a player that may not be familiar with the game, just take both Spell Penetration and Greater Spell Penetration. You can't neglected these with Drow being end game content as Drow have a high Spell Resistance.

Dysmetria
08-21-2012, 08:10 PM
Can't you cast an invisibility spell? I'm not exactly familiar with the strengths and weaknesses of either as I have never found any reason to use either, but unless hide and move silent are really that superior to invis, I'd recommend you dump those skills and max out your trap skills and perhaps open lock (since knock is much worse) instead.

Oh and definitely take that second level of rogue, it is well worth it for evasion alone.

aradelothion
08-21-2012, 08:27 PM
Can't you cast an invisibility spell? I'm not exactly familiar with the strengths and weaknesses of either as I have never found any reason to use either, but unless hide and move silent are really that superior to invis, I'd recommend you dump those skills and max out your trap skills and perhaps open lock (since knock is much worse) instead.

You can probably get away with dumping Hide and Open Lock in a shadowmage-type build, but not Move Silently. Some mobs have See Invisibility, but even with those that don't, most can hear or maybe even have tremor sense, and they do attack in your general direction or follow a bit even when invis'd. On the other hand, they have to roll to beat your MS skill, and a Pale Master in Wraith Form can get an absurdly high score there. You don't even need to splash for Rogue levels, though it does require more preparation, twitch skills, patience, and knowledge.

OP: if you love your 1 rogue level, you're gonna love 2. As others have mentioned, Insightful Reflexes + Evasion is wonderful on a Wiz, especially in the new content.

Ertay
08-21-2012, 08:59 PM
1 rogue level alone is very bad, unless you take the second one for evasion. You basically won't lose much more then you did already and will gain something pretty cool (evasion).

Build wise I'd say absolutely trash toughness and get spell pen. The first toughness feat is worth it because it also unlocks the toughness enhancements, the other ones give a very bad return of investment. What you absolutely do need is spell penetration. All the necromancy feats are entirely useless if you can't break spell resistance, because the spell resistance check always comes first, your necromancy spells won't do anything if you fail there.

Also note that the expansion pack is pretty much drow themed, and all drow get spell resistance equal to their cr. Without any feats in spell pen, you will start to fail more and more on normal and and almost all of the time on hard, always on elite (there you'll probably fail often even with those feats because you lack the past lives).

Talon_Moonshadow
08-21-2012, 09:16 PM
I love stealth.

I play mostly Rangers. I also have a Rog 20 that I like very much.

But my Wiz 20 is my stealthiest character. Using Wraithform she breaks a 60MS score.

...and why UMD on a Wizard? or Pale Master anyway.... I can self heal darn good with spells in undead form.



of course.... play what you want to, is the best advice.
Lots of people love their Wiz/Rogs... but most go with Rog2 for evasion.

.. but out of al of my characters, I would say that my Wiz 20 is the one that needs Evasion the least.
Insightful Ref feat with a Wizard's Int means that you usually save for half damage anyway.

Wizard buffs means tha you can minimise a lot of damage from things that evasion works on too.




anyway.... just saying....
play what you think you will enjoy the most.

slimkj
08-22-2012, 02:54 PM
But my Wiz 20 is my stealthiest character. Using Wraithform she breaks a 60MS score.
Mine is my Monk AA. With 18 levels where it's a class skill, the bonuses from Ninja Spy, the moderately good Dex score and a Shroud skills item, I'm hitting about 62/67 (ish/iirc disclaimer) which is very nice and gets round most stuff.

I am keen to try a sneaky Wiz one day, but it keeps getting pushed down the list. Maybe now I'm not so bothered about TRing given their relative power compared to EDs, I'll finally do it. :)

jwdaniels
08-22-2012, 03:10 PM
Take your 20th level in anything and then TR - the wizard past life will be helpful with spell penetration and the extra build points will also be useful. Then you can take the advice you are getting in terms of what not to do and apply that to your new build having a much better understanding of the game.

Much easier than swapping several feats individually.

Tyrande
08-22-2012, 04:57 PM
Take your 20th level in anything and then TR - the wizard past life will be helpful with spell penetration[...]

^This^
I would say do this if you intend to solo.

As of right now, that character is pretty much a no go doing anything drow or anything with high spell resistance that are in harder content, i.e. not normal in epics.

Mamba_Lev
08-26-2012, 04:39 AM
At the top of the wiki entry (http://ddowiki.com/page/Capstone_enhancements)...




Normally I wouldn't do this but I'm going to recommend you stop reading the Wiki. It is more geared, in my opinion, for players who understand the basics of the game and may not be worded the best. Heroic Durability is free to all characters.

Now that aside, don't take Mental Toughness or Improved Mental Toughness. Unless you are required to take them for something, like Wraith form or Archmage, you should not take them. To a new player that might sound like a nice chunk, but at end game it will only be a small percentage of your total SP. There are also ways to get SP back involving items like the Torc and Conc-Op so you won't need the extra capacity.

Second, don't take three Toughnesses. Take more important feats. You're obviously missing Heighten. Spell DC is calculated as 10 + the spell level + your class stat modifier + any feats/enhancements/items. So a level 6 spell will have three DC lower than a level 9 spell. Heighten pushes the spell level for all your spells affected by Heighten to level 9. So a level 1 spell that is heightened will be equivalent DC to a level 9 spell.

Also you're lacking Spell Penetration feats. Spell Penetration effects your ability to penetrate enemy Spell Resistance. It is calculated first before Spell DCs are calculated. If you don't penetrate Spell Resistance your spells do not land. For a first life character, especially with a player that may not be familiar with the game, just take both Spell Penetration and Greater Spell Penetration. You can't neglected these with Drow being end game content as Drow have a high Spell Resistance.

and at the bottom of the wiki it says no requirements for the Wizard Capstone Enhancement.

I have a free lesser allegedly so i'll use that to fix toughness overkill and lack of spell penetration. Very rarely i have had a spell not work at all but i take all of your points regarding Spell Penetration and heighten, should i be using Heighten always or just for bosses and such? I have issues with the spell boosting feats as they take huge amounts of SP and the enhancements to reduce their cost are very high in cost for very little gained especially since i currently lack any sort of Spell Power restoring item except for the Twisted Talisman.

2nd level of rogue seems to be the only way forward and i will do that. I do want to TR but i'm going to play with Epic Destinies first partly because the idea of going back to being a puny low level toon again does not fill me with joy.

Sorry for the late reply been busy with work.

Jingwei
08-27-2012, 12:50 AM
Note that the lvl 20 pure class requirements are listed at the top of the capstone entry.

[...] Multiclass characters are not eligible for capstone enhancements because their levels are split among several classes, none reaching level 20.

------------

If you have farmed up the gear, a TR character can feel pretty god like up unitl level 15 or so. But would recommend you consider staying at 20 until you've farmed up a torc and/or conc op greesteel.

------------

here's (http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=4466566&postcount=7) a basic pale master guide I wrote a short time ago.

A wizard 18/rog 2 version gives up empower spell.
So their feat list would look like:

toughness
insightful reflexes
extend
quicken
maximize
heighten
sf: necro
gsf: necro
sf: enchantment
gsf: enchantment (swapped at level 20 from mental toughness, or just keep mental toughness)
spell penetration
greater spell penetration

Note that it takes a bit of planning to get this feat loadout, as you need to be sure that you can take appropriate feats with your wizard bonus feats.

------------------

Spells you always have extended:
lesser death aura
death aura
haste
rage

spells you always have heightened:
web
circle of death
finger of death
sphere of dancing
mass charm

spells you have two hotkeys for, one with no metas, and one with maximize + empower (if you have it)
biting cold
electric surge

if you don't have a full stack of the spells going, use the unmeta'd version, so that you are only dumping your metas on a full 3 stack version of the spell. Though these days, I quite often don't use maximize much.

-----------------

if you are using your SP to do damage directly, you'll run out very quickly. You have to learn how to dispatch the monsters efficiently.

So, for example, if soloing sinister storage, it's much cheaper to charm all the taken as they show up, and then use dismiss charm on them one at a time so they kill each other. Then you only have to worry about doing HP damage to one of them, and your SLAs should take care of that, as the last taken has been beaten up in the fighting already.

Your only real problems are undead and constructs. For undead, undeath to death works wonders, and if facing heavy undead, you can load halt undead too. For constructs, something like web + ice storm + acid rain if you don't have melees around to take care of the problem for you.

---------------

Ryiah
08-27-2012, 04:19 AM
spells you have two hotkeys for, one with no metas, and one with maximize + empower (if you have it)
biting cold
electric surge

I've never used a non-meta Niac's Biting Cold or Eladar's Electric Surge. If you need efficient SP usage you're probably better off with a persistant AOE like Ice Storm.

Jingwei
08-27-2012, 07:05 AM
The idea is that you build your two stack of both of the DOTs using the non-meta'd version, then on the 3rd casting and refreshing of the 3-stack you use the meta'd version.

Assuming you are running both DOTs and have maximize and empower, you save 160 SP doing it this way, and the bonus damage you'd get from 1 and 2 stacks if probably not worth the SP, and you now have enough SP to run the (maximized, empowered) 3 stack one more casting.

FrozenNova
08-27-2012, 07:34 AM
The idea is that you build your two stack of both of the DOTs using the non-meta'd version, then on the 3rd casting and refreshing of the 3-stack you use the meta'd version.

Assuming you are running both DOTs and have maximize and empower, you save 160 SP doing it this way, and the bonus damage you'd get from 1 and 2 stacks if probably not worth the SP, and you now have enough SP to run the (maximized, empowered) 3 stack one more casting.

This is a good trick. I hadn't thought of doing that.

Mamba_Lev
08-27-2012, 08:16 AM
I know i have to be smarter with how i use the magic. Reduce saves then hit them ect. Using Energy Drain then hitting them with Disintegrate works much better. Using Niac's and Eldar's already, very nice idea using met's for the final stack thanks.

Charm monster then dismiss charm on one of them lol, superb cheers.

When spells refers to caster level does it mean my total level or just the levels i have in wizard? Leaning more to staying wizard and changing the rogue level for Wizard as sneaking bores me immensley and Lich form with Death Aura/Rage/Greater Heroism/Shield/Nightshield running is bordering on being invincible. Finally feel like i am becoming powerful..

Edit: Lesser Death Aura and Death Aura work at the same which i didn't think of until you mentioned they should both be extended, power muhahaha :)

Jingwei
08-27-2012, 08:31 PM
Caster level is the number of levels you have in wizard. Though this can be modified by certain items (arcane augmentation) and through various ways with epic destinies.