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Bolo_Grubb
08-05-2012, 11:33 PM
ok I know Unyielding sentinel seems the best for tanking but what should i look at twisting in from other destinies?

This is for my pure fighter Stalwart Defender

sephiroth1084
08-06-2012, 12:08 AM
I'm thinking Improved Combat Expertise as one defensive twist, and then 2 for offense to shore up that weakness a little. If you have tactics feats, Legendary Tactics is probably a necessity. Haste Boost looks to be pretty strong.

Other than those...Sense Weakness maybe, or Gird Against Demons as worthwhile high-level DPS twists instead of Haste Boost. GMoF's +3% double-strike looks ok as low-hanging fruit.

If you need it, the extra healing amp from Exalted Angel is also worthwhile on a tank, but you should be able to get fairly significant healing amp without too much trouble now without it.

Bolo_Grubb
08-06-2012, 09:17 AM
I'm thinking Improved Combat Expertise as one defensive twist, and then 2 for offense to shore up that weakness a little. If you have tactics feats, Legendary Tactics is probably a necessity. Haste Boost looks to be pretty strong.

Other than those...Sense Weakness maybe, or Gird Against Demons as worthwhile high-level DPS twists instead of Haste Boost. GMoF's +3% double-strike looks ok as low-hanging fruit.

If you need it, the extra healing amp from Exalted Angel is also worthwhile on a tank, but you should be able to get fairly significant healing amp without too much trouble now without it.

Thanks for the reply

Ape_Man
08-06-2012, 11:12 AM
Mine's a monk-splashed evasion built who's recently switched to armor because of Turbines silly changes. When in defensive mode as a sentinel I have twisted:

- Lilthe: +6 AC, reflex save, and MDB is huge gets me up to a potential 24% dodge.
- Improved CE: I'm not sure how much this is really doing or needed in the grand scheme of things, but I have it.
- Unearthly reactions: +3% dodge, +6 reflex save

Your reflex save, even on a non-evasion toon, mitigates a ton of damage. I focused on cranking that to the stratosphere. The dodge and PRR are also nice.

Keep in mind we can change these out any time we want. I spend most of my time as a Kensai either FoTW or LD as the need for real tanks just ain't there anymore.

Bolo_Grubb
08-06-2012, 12:30 PM
Mine's a monk-splashed evasion built who's recently switched to armor because of Turbines silly changes. When in defensive mode as a sentinel I have twisted:

- Lilthe: +6 AC, reflex save, and MDB is huge gets me up to a potential 24% dodge.
- Improved CE: I'm not sure how much this is really doing or needed in the grand scheme of things, but I have it.
- Unearthly reactions: +3% dodge, +6 reflex save

Your reflex save, even on a non-evasion toon, mitigates a ton of damage. I focused on cranking that to the stratosphere. The dodge and PRR are also nice.

Keep in mind we can change these out any time we want. I spend most of my time as a Kensai either FoTW or LD as the need for real tanks just ain't there anymore.

I will have to check out Lithe, the bonus to Reflex looks nice and I love the AC boost, but it looks like the MDB is only for light armor and my tank wears heavy, still cheaper then walking with waves (tier 3) for a +6 AC.

Thrudh
08-06-2012, 12:43 PM
My evasion tank has


Lithe (+6 AC, +6 to Min Dex Bonus, +6 reflex saves) - only for light armor though, so no good for you
Unearthly reactions (3% Dodge, +6 reflex saves, and an AWESOME little feature that lets you tumble through enemies).
Extra Action Boosts - As a stalwart defender, having 3 extra Haste Boosts helps with DPS quite a bit. I use Haste Boost much more often, not having to worry about saving it for a bigger fight.


For you in heavy armor, I'd probably twist in Improved CE instead of Lithe. Unearthly Reactions may not be worth it to you either, if your MDB (and therefore max dodge bonus) is super low.

sephiroth1084
08-06-2012, 01:15 PM
Really depends on your AC before twisting, but +6 AC once you're around 120-130 is something like +2-3% miss chance. Just doesn't seem worthwhile as a twist when you need to concern yourself with being able to hold aggro against all the guys who are getting significant boosts to their already higher DPS, and you could use some abilities to use when not tanking. I feel the same way about twisting in Dodge% on someone with a lot of AC already. This is all even more true if you also have a heap of PRR.

+6 AC, +6 Reflex save is probably worthwhile, if you have a mediocre Reflex (ie., high enough to make some saves, but too low to make most).

Tirisha
08-06-2012, 01:24 PM
I like

Tier 3 insult from Fury

Tier 2 momentum swing *combines well with insult for good threat* (swap it with improved combat expertise if needed)

Tier 1 primal scream if you drop stance before using it you'll get it even when you go back into stance.

Swap out the tier one between various things as needed: +6 intim from draconic. or +6 to any save *between draconic/magister*

is a hell of a Fate point grind though.

Bolo_Grubb
08-06-2012, 04:26 PM
I like

Tier 3 insult from Fury

Tier 2 momentum swing *combines well with insult for good threat* (swap it with improved combat expertise if needed)

Tier 1 primal scream if you drop stance before using it you'll get it even when you go back into stance.

Swap out the tier one between various things as needed: +6 intim from draconic. or +6 to any save *between draconic/magister*

is a hell of a Fate point grind though.


ya the fate point grind is crazy, even worse now that I am understanding how the fate points work a bit better. I think I will be looking at mostly tier 1 items to twist and maybe a tier2

sephiroth1084
08-06-2012, 05:09 PM
I like

Tier 3 insult from Fury

Tier 2 momentum swing *combines well with insult for good threat* (swap it with improved combat expertise if needed)

Tier 1 primal scream if you drop stance before using it you'll get it even when you go back into stance.

Swap out the tier one between various things as needed: +6 intim from draconic. or +6 to any save *between draconic/magister*

is a hell of a Fate point grind though.
Insult looks interesting...the extra threat should be useful on a tank.

emptysands
08-06-2012, 05:25 PM
How about Magister Tier 1:


Sigil of spell warding: Active Ability: (Cooldown 30 seconds) Inscribes a sigil for 60 seconds. Grants [1/2/3] AC and [5/10/15] PRR. Only one sigil active per caster.

Bolo_Grubb
08-06-2012, 06:15 PM
How about Magister Tier 1:


Sigil of spell warding: Active Ability: (Cooldown 30 seconds) Inscribes a sigil for 60 seconds. Grants [1/2/3] AC and [5/10/15] PRR. Only one sigil active per caster.

I tend to prefer passive versus active abilities, but that one might be worth considering, except maybe for the grind to get to it. Of course I have to grind a ton just to unlock the twist points.

Right now I have Grandmaster of flower open to level 4, unyielding sentinel open to level 4 and trying decide where to go next, most likely legendary dreadnaught.

Enoach
08-06-2012, 06:25 PM
Unyielding Sentinel seems to be the Epic Destiny that more closely enhances the attributes of Tanking


Provides Hate Mechanics
Provides limited self healing
Provides option for Burst DPS
Provides DR


However, there are a few twistable items that I've been reviewing that can help a tank both while tanking and while doing the other stuff a Melee type should be capable of

Based on a Pure Fighter

Legendary Dreadnought Tier 1 - Legendary Tactics / Extra Action Boosts - Both provide different aspects that are useful both in and out of tank mode
Legendary Dreadnought Tier 2 - Momentum Swing and Improved Power Attack for More DPS at the sacrifice of Not Using CE and Improved Combat Expertise
Grandmaster of Flowers Tier 2 - Hail of Blows 3% double strike - Stacks with Shield Feats, Serenity's stacking SR is limited benefit but could potentially be utilized by a Drow or Character able to cast the Spell Resistance spell.
Grandmaster of Flowers Tier 3 - Walking the Waves does have the +6 AC potential
Fury of the Wild Tier 1 - Fast Healing: definite help to those that don't have natural healing abilities
Fury of the Wild Tier 2 - Damage Reduction
Fury of the Wild Tier 3 - Insult - Hate Generator, but at a high cost - might need to review if you actually need this.
Draconic Incarnation Tier 1 - Draconic Presence +6 Intimidate, Dragonhide for +3 Natural AC and +6 Fort save with 1 no longer being auto fail, Draconic Perception +6 reflex save - 1/2 damage is always better than full damage
Magister Tier 1 - Unearthly reaction +3 Dodge +6 reflex and phase out while tumbling, Impregnable Mind +6 Will save w/ 1 not being auto fail.


I stayed away from Rage type Twistables due to having to be out of a defensive stance in order to use them.

These are some I've been debating on my Paladin tank, but I'm also considering a few others as I have Spell points as a class feature, such as Draconic Incarnation Tier 1 Energy Sheath - I'm able to scroll Fire/Cold Shield, but adding in Acid or Lightning will bring me up to 3 possible elements where I will only take 50% damage and less on a save with the added benefit of potentially inflicting damage each time i'm hit, and lets face it Tank types are usually in a place to get hit.

Enoach
08-06-2012, 06:30 PM
How about Magister Tier 1:


Sigil of spell warding: Active Ability: (Cooldown 30 seconds) Inscribes a sigil for 60 seconds. Grants [1/2/3] AC and [5/10/15] PRR. Only one sigil active per caster.

I might be remembering this wrong, but I was sure the Sigil has an Spell Point requirement. As a pure fighter he won't come by that naturally.

emptysands
08-06-2012, 06:36 PM
I might be remembering this wrong, but I was sure the Sigil has an Spell Point requirement. As a pure fighter he won't come by that naturally.

Yeah, 20 SP activation cost. So will only work on blue-bar tank - Pally or something else.

Bolo_Grubb
08-07-2012, 11:37 AM
Fury of the wild has some nice ones to twist too.

Too bad it is so expensive to buy the unlocks from the ddo store.

Ironforge_Clan
08-07-2012, 12:16 PM
Depending on your situation and your resolve for grinding you might consider the SD ability Sealed Soul. Basically you get a permanent non-dispellable death ward effect. Like others have pointed out the cost to get this is extreme but it would be something I might consider depending on the build.

Thrudh
08-07-2012, 12:21 PM
ya the fate point grind is crazy, even worse now that I am understanding how the fate points work a bit better. I think I will be looking at mostly tier 1 items to twist and maybe a tier2

8 fate points is about as far as I'm going to go for any of my guys...

One tier 2 and two Tier 1

or (for my wizard who wants the tier 3 extra spell pen)

One Tier 3 and one tier 1

Tirisha
08-07-2012, 01:30 PM
just a heads up on Insult, just tested on training dummy. When twisted it doesn't apply the debuff if you use Cleave or Greater cleave to activate it. Works well with a normal swing though.

Kamode_Corebasher
08-07-2012, 03:45 PM
Yeah, 20 SP activation cost. So will only work on blue-bar tank - Pally or something else.

That 'something else' could be a greensteel charisma item (which most tanks have for improved Intim and UMD)...mine gives me 300 SP.

Regarding what else to twist, most evasion tanks are missing the heavier armors which = better PRR and AC from physical damage. I think Barrier of Scales from the Draconic Incarnation (tier 2) line would REALLY help.

Barrier of Scales: Active Ability: (Cooldown 2mins) For the next [30/60/90] seconds, [60/90/120] points of ablative protection versus physical damage. Stacks with Stoneskin and ablative armor.

Currently my evasion tank is twisting from Legendary Dreadnought the 'Extra Action Boost' and the 'Improved Combat Expertise' ...I really like and see good results from both.

UPDATE EDIT: Barrier of Scales is not what I thought...once a total of 120 dmg has been dealt to me, I'm back to no ablative protection until off of cooldown. basically worthless.

sephiroth1084
08-07-2012, 09:32 PM
Depending on your situation and your resolve for grinding you might consider the SD ability Sealed Soul. Basically you get a permanent non-dispellable death ward effect. Like others have pointed out the cost to get this is extreme but it would be something I might consider depending on the build.
I cannot imagine a situation where this would be worthwhile.

You can work up a Silver Flame Talisman in about 30 min to an hour if you have an opener for the Cursed Crypt, or about 3 hours if you don't, which covers most situations that you'd need Death Ward in, but can't rely on the spell not getting dispelled.

If you TR at all (still), you can acquire one of these per life. So far, I have only once run through 20 charges before getting to shrine. It's hard to imagine spending that much effort to twist in something that is easily replicable by a level 7 clicky that you can have as many copies of as you like, festival cookies, party members, or a level 11 item, especially with so many stronger options available.

Tirisha
08-08-2012, 01:58 AM
Yeah, 20 SP activation cost. So will only work on blue-bar tank - Pally or something else.

Triple air greansteel goggles have SP on them. and +6 to cha skills:D

Bolo_Grubb
08-08-2012, 04:27 PM
Triple air greansteel goggles have SP on them. and +6 to cha skills:D


Ya I thinking about making these for the haste clickie and the boost to intim.

Tirisha
08-09-2012, 04:04 AM
Fury of the Wild Tier 3 - Insult - Hate Generator, but at a high cost - might need to review if you actually need this.


the description is a bit odd on this ability so just gonna put this out there in case people don't know.

Insult gives the enemy you hit the +2 str/con and -10 AC/ -10% fort.

doesn't work with cleave/greater cleave but does with Momentum swing and regular attacks. My guess is that AOE attacks bug it and the debuff isn't applied as a result so I would bet that lay to waste would also not proc the insult debuff.

Lighti
08-13-2012, 06:57 AM
On my Pure 20 Stalwart Defender im using:

Tier 4: Fury of the Wild - Sense Weakness
Tier 2: Legendary Dreadnaught - Improved Power Attack OR Grand Master of Flowers - Hail of Blows
Tier 1: Fury of the Wild - Fast Healing

This requires maximum fate points though (18) including the +2 Tome from Store.

Im on 130 AC Unbffed, 142 whilst using CE so +6 AC does not add much
Personally i find using Heavy armour im on 124 PRR, gaining 20 more PRR only takes me from 47% to 50% so in my opinion not worth it.

Sense Weakness is an insane amount of damage (averages out at 10 damage per hit)
Hail of Blows or Improved Power Attack opt for which ever grants you more damage
Fast healing makes soloing so much easier having a source of hp regain that is not a potion.

donblas
08-13-2012, 05:40 PM
I kinda like the healing spring from shiradi champion - everyone in the party gets d100 HP back every 20 seconds for 5 minutes (modified by positive spellpower).