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Rizzia
07-28-2012, 07:44 PM
It really bugs me that atm I usually have to spend 1 or 2 points in a tier (on a skill that i dont want/does nothing for me) to get to the next tier.

Hows about making the pre-req for tier 2 "4 points spent OR level 21". T3 "8 ap spent OR level 22"...etc

To me this makes epic levels more valueable plus also ties them into destinies and increases customisation while still letting fresh TRs with maxed destinies have a way to gain the upper abilities (like it is now).

Just feels weird to me that a lvl 25 must have at least 4 in teir 1, 8 in 1-2 for 3 etc..

CaptainSpacePony
07-29-2012, 08:47 AM
/NOT signed

The ED prereqs are pretty fluid and allow for a lot of variance. Even so, the tier-approach is prereq structure that has value and is common throughout the game. Implementing the OP's suggestion would unbalance it and make EDs less attractive to TRs and lvl 20s in general.

Now the ED change I would advocate is changing the "map" for changing from 1 to another. Why does a Barbarian need to spend time as a Shiradi before moving to the martial stuff? Or why does a druid have to cross over the martial realm before getting to the divine?

shadereaper33
07-29-2012, 09:13 AM
/not signed.

I think the current set up is just fine as it is. It mirrors exactly the pre-reqs in heroic levels for spending AP, and will likely be the exact same system that they will use in the enhancement overhaul. It works just fine and provides a level of balance by making players choose which enhancements they want, and yeah, sometimes you have to spend a few points on something that may not be optimal, but every destiny has stat points you can buy in it, which are always useful. With the OP's suggestion, people could just level to 25 and cherry pick the absolute best 24 AP worth of enhancements out of whatever destiny they want. That would be lead to builds being either far to overpowered, which would cause the devs to balance around that, making sub-25's fall below the power curve, or it would lead to the dev's reworking all of the enhancements to where they are all bland and barely worth taking. no thanks.

Rizzia
07-29-2012, 12:31 PM
/NOT signed

The ED prereqs are pretty fluid and allow for a lot of variance. Even so, the tier-approach is prereq structure that has value and is common throughout the game. Implementing the OP's suggestion would unbalance it and make EDs less attractive to TRs and lvl 20s in general.

How would it be less attractive to TRs/20s exactly..it would be the same as it is for them now. But it would have the added bonus of letting those that gain the epic levels a lil extra customisation.


/not signed.

I think the current set up is just fine as it is. It mirrors exactly the pre-reqs in heroic levels for spending AP, and will likely be the exact same system that they will use in the enhancement overhaul. It works just fine and provides a level of balance by making players choose which enhancements they want, and yeah, sometimes you have to spend a few points on something that may not be optimal, but every destiny has stat points you can buy in it, which are always useful. With the OP's suggestion, people could just level to 25 and cherry pick the absolute best 24 AP worth of enhancements out of whatever destiny they want. That would be lead to builds being either far to overpowered, which would cause the devs to balance around that, making sub-25's fall below the power curve, or it would lead to the dev's reworking all of the enhancements to where they are all bland and barely worth taking. no thanks.

And what makes you think people dont allready cherry pick abilites? if anything all the tress need a lil more balancing so there are enough tier 1/2s of interest, like you say it mirrors heroic, however theres alot more to choose from there and yes you can take someting "non optimal" ..here in EDs you are forced to take something "useless" (to your class) to progress.

If the stat increases were 1 point I wouldnt care, as like you say you can spend on those, but their 2, so its hard to justify em. I dont think the stat points are worth it outside of casters.

The perspective I was looking from was in a non standard destiny (the devs said that they werent class specific, but some are too nichey). For example:

My arti/ranged in dreadnought: to get to tier 3 abilities is nightmareish.
Sundering swings, legendary tactics, action boost attack all do nothing for me, so I take 2 in extra action boost + the con (2 points) not really a choice here, kinda forced into it.

to unlock 3..
momentum swing, improved combat expertise, improved power attack AND damage boost (have to take it for battle engineer) cannot even take if even if they helped (redded out) so that leaves me with another con and... 1 in extra action boost and well I guess 1 point in attack boost ...so thats that Im in teir 3, wheres the customisation? I dont rate 20(ish) hps from 4 points spend in con, attack boost 1 (I have no probs hitting) as an investment The 3 in extra action boost is fine with me, I would have chosen them, but thats 5 points I had no other options.

I like what the devs tried to do, with some destinies having stuff in them that appeals more to other classes than the "main" class of the destiny..but this one in particular is horrid on anything non melee.


Ok different idea, give all destinies some generic abilites, like extra hps, or +1 ranged damage, (or melee etc). Something where we can put our points into in the above situations. As i said, 4 points for 20 odd hps and +1 fort save is not "epic". But if there was always the option (for any destiny) to spend a point for 10 hps, sure, that'd be worth it i suppose. Better than how it is now. Heck make em untiwistable even. Just something so we can progress in destinies with something that matters.

CaptainSpacePony
07-29-2012, 02:59 PM
How would it be less attractive to TRs/20s exactly..it would be the same as it is for them now. But it would have the added bonus of letting those that gain the epic levels a lil extra customisation.


Say an epic character with some progress in EDs (let's say Magister 4) TRs. As soon as they hit lvl 20, their ED abilities will be available. They don't have to start over. A prereq by levels rather than ED APs would cut them off of much of their ED.

Rian
07-29-2012, 05:44 PM
My problem with the EDs is the fact that when you spend points the game strips you of all the points then reapplies them. This causes loss of spell points and incorrect implementations of the abilities. Also, it slows the game rediculously.

So the only way to fully benefit from your EDs is to relog after spending the points.

Rizzia
07-29-2012, 07:09 PM
Say an epic character with some progress in EDs (let's say Magister 4) TRs. As soon as they hit lvl 20, their ED abilities will be available. They don't have to start over. A prereq by levels rather than ED APs would cut them off of much of their ED.

Thats why I explicitly put the OR there. spend 4 points OR be level 21, etc

It wouldnt be a re-req by level, but rather a way to circumvent the x-points pre-req.

Jay203
07-29-2012, 07:14 PM
... no
what you're proposing essentially strips away the need to make choices
if what you suggested is implemented, ppl will just do a reset when they hit cap and pick up all the top tier destiny enhancements

the way it's set up atm forces you to choose between the higher tiers, taking that away and the everyone will just have all the top tier stuff only