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maximus123123
07-22-2012, 05:34 AM
I cannot recommend DDO to friends or coworkers.

I want to because it is a great game (or more to the point, it has the potential of becoming a great game; all the pieces are in place).

The problem is the grinding nature of the game.

Unless you are prepared to invest (I choose that word carefully) a lot of time into the game, you will not be able to do most of the content.

Turbine is allowing a tiny group of players (the elitists) to dictate the difficulty level and more importantly the drop rates of the most powerful items in the game, keeping them extremely low so that a huge time investment is necessary to create a character capable of running epic elite quests.

In the end, DDO can either be a game that anyone can jump into right away and begin enjoying (which would increase DDO's population by leaps and bounds) or it can remain a niche game controlled by a tiny elitist group who insist on keeping the whole game grindy so that they can then boast that they are powerful and everyone else is a "gimp."

I suspect Turbine will be afraid of alienating this tiny group and will choose to appease them rather than heed this advice. But the end result, Turbine, is that it is only you that will be hurt when you fail to bring in more players who would love to get into a game like this but do not have the 8-12 hours per day (or even 2 hours per day) necessary to build just a single toon (not to mention if you want to create a variety of toons).

Note I'm not asking for the difficulty level to be made easy. Some quests are beautiful but extremely difficult and feel "rushed" like Picture Portals. Those need to have their difficulties reworked.

But more importantly though, the ability to create a viable toon should be adjusted without ridiculous drop rates if you are ever to appeal to more than just a niche group of elitists.

I want to recommend DDO to people but cannot do so with the knowledge that I would be subjugating that person to hours of endless grinding play just to make a playable toon ("come geared" as the lfm's say). There are too many (way too many) grind points. Imagine just greensteel items (e.g. the difficulty of getting enough devil's scales). Now combine that with the LoB items, house C challenge items, +4 tomes, etc. ad nauseaum and multiply that by the number of characters you'd like to build and you begin to get the picture.

Believe it or not, some of us would like to play the game because we enjoy video games and like a role playing multiplayer environment not just because we need to be bribed to do so for items !

Also get rid of all the cooldowns that have cropped up along the way. Even 10 second cooldowns like on sprint boosts go a long way to putting a wet towel on the excitement of this game.

Begin to focus more on what you can do for gameplay (to make the game actually funner to play) than just mere item grinding. Items are great. Drop rates are not (except for the elitists who will come on here now and whine and complain about this post).

Again, Turbine, you only have yourself to hurt if you choose to follow the advice of the elitists. Imagine the potential you have to increase your share of the MMORPG market by making it easier to make a viably geared toon and focusing on gameplay instead of item and xp grinding.

grgurius
07-22-2012, 06:01 AM
Um, what?

Excuse me, but what game are you playing. Turbine has made loot acquisition alot easier with MotU.

Besides, normal difficulty, which is targeted for a casual player, doesn't need any kind of special loot, especially not +4 tomes, alchemicals and i would even dare to say not even greensteel. You would do fine even with random lootgen.

CaptainSpacePony
07-22-2012, 06:22 AM
I disagree with the OP.

WielderofGigantus
07-22-2012, 06:34 AM
Unless you are prepared to invest (I choose that word carefully) a lot of time into the game, you will not be able to do most of the content.

Um, yes you can do most of the content. This isn't WOW.

It used to be somewhat hard to find decent gear at higher levels, but with the introduction of the new random gen gear and cannith crafting, it's a lot easier. Even without that, it's very easy to level in this game for first lifers, and the only content you would have difficulty is the epic content, but the devs made that easier too by introducing the varying levels of epic difficulty.

shadereaper33
07-22-2012, 06:37 AM
I completely disagree with everything the OP has said. This game is very easy to just pick up and play, even without ANY prior MMO experience. I have a friend who recently just started playing, and this is his first MMO and he is doing just fine without any sort of special gear. Perhaps, if the OP really thinks this game is too difficult, he could go try http://www.hellokittyonline.com/

Mastikator
07-22-2012, 06:38 AM
Turbine is allowing a tiny group of players (the elitists) to dictate the difficulty level and more importantly the drop rates of the most powerful items in the game, keeping them extremely low so that a huge time investment is necessary to create a character capable of running epic elite quests.

Believe it or not but Epic Elite quests is but a small fraction of the game, there's a whole world up to level 20 and getting there is an amazing journey. Especially the first time you play this game.

Dandonk
07-22-2012, 06:41 AM
Um.... wut?

As noted above, getting decent gear is much eaasier in post-U14 DDO. Both for the commendations stuff in the new quests, but also in the general rework of the quest rewards. Quests that used to give +1 or +2 weapons now can give +3 flaming, for instance.

Some loot drops are silly rare, yes. But with all the named items in the newer quests you can easily get to a "good enough" level of gearing. Will it take some grind? Yes. Will it take a lot? No.

Crafting has also made this easier. While it takes a lot of effort to get to 100+ in crafting levels, getting to 40ish is not out of reach of most, even casual, players. The main problem here is not the cost, nor the time, but mostly the (deleted) (blank) boring decon/craft mechanics.

Some mechanics changes has also reduced needed grind. AC and to hit rework means that with very little effort you can now be within spitting distance of being as good as the grinders. Yes, they'll hit a little more and be hit a little less - but it's no longer as obvious a difference as before.

All in all I think Turbine has done a lot to cater to new players and to reduce the grind necessary to be able to contribute to groups at higher levels. In some cases, even too much (yes, Combat Change, I'm looking at you).

Now, Epic Elite is... well, Epic. First time I was there, I got my behind handed to me. Second and third time, too. Then I played EH for a bit more, and after a week or so, our guild thought, hey let's try again. So then we proceeded to three man a half dozen of them. And while we have OK gear, this is mostly some GS items and stuff on that level. No esos, no other uber epic items.
I mean, if we could do it three man with good-but-not-uber gear, others can surely take them on in full groups. Yes, it took a rework of tactics (we couldn't brute force them as much as EHs), but I think it's possible for many players to do EE.

Impaqt
07-22-2012, 07:20 AM
Unless you have some compelling example to share, I have to assume you are trolling.

There is no rare piece of loot thats "Required" to complete any content in the game..... except maybe TOwer of Despair....

deadmanet
07-22-2012, 07:21 AM
Not to rain on your parade here, but I'm with the other responders. I'm not sure where you are coming from on this post. Items have become A LOT easier to get a hold of. By your join date and if you notice mine, you should remember how MUCH worse it was to get items. Now you have awesome loot in the new content that is pretty easy to get.(also all the new ablities on all gear at all levels) And a couple of updates ago, they changed the way chains work to every 3rd completion you get a chance at the named loot from the whole chain to pop up. My experience with that has been pretty great by the way.(yes, a grind of sorts, but a small one)

As far as needing to grind to be able to play most of the content....huh? :confused:
If you notice my sig below, the only character that has any epic levels(my PM) has done pretty much every quest in the game. And I'd guess 95% was solo(including epics). And I didn't find the journey to get there much of a grind. And she has only named loot easily obtainable, and random loot from the new content. IE: no greensteel, Torc, etc... Not having any issues running epics. Granted will give the point that she is a palemaster, so she's pretty self sufficient, but still, it's all about the player at the keyboard, not really the items on said character.

Turbine allowing the small group of elites to dictate game difficutly? Again huh? :confused: This game has been dumbed down so far from the original game, it's almost not even the same game anymore. Hmm, let's see no more xp debt on death for starters. Addition of casual difficulty, and scaling. Hirelings for those of us that can't/don't want to worry about groups. I could go on, but will stop there.

And to keep from rambling on anymore, will finish with this. All this "grinding" you are talking about, and the "elites" claiming to be uber.....who cares what they think? Let them grind for the "uber leet loot" so they can run the Epics on Elite. As a casual gamer myself, I can play (estimated) 95% of this game just fine on all difficulties BUT Epic Elite. Which is fine. EE is supposed to be hard, and only for those willing to put in the time to gear up to survive it. No skin off my back, I have fun running on norm/hard just fine.

And just a little perspective before you go grouping me with said "elites" All those toons in my sig? Yeah, have had most of them since the begining, and only 2 of them have reached cap. And the one TR I have??? Only back to lvl 16 due to the xp stone. And I'm lucky to be able to spend a couple of hours every 2 days or so playing. Yet, I still have multiple characters going, and not having any issues leveling up, as a matter of fact, some I have put on the back burner to keep from outleveling the whole game so fast. And one last point, if my (ex)fiance can jump in and play DDO with minimal help/issues, I'd say just about anyone can. Just my opinion course.

Alrik_Fassbauer
07-22-2012, 07:28 AM
Unless you are prepared to invest (I choose that word carefully) a lot of time into the game, you will not be able to do most of the content.

I disagree.

Low-level to mid-level quests can easily be done with things that can be found within the game - and their numbers of quests are roughly the same like high-level quests are.

Me, I'm playing for story only, and I had a very good time so far (although, I must say, being supported by the guild I'm in, too).

Now, at level 16, I'm not looking forward into the rest of the game very much, because, as you indeed said, it looks rather like work to me than like fun.

But still : The lower levels can actually provide a great time, imho !

Lonnbeimnech
07-22-2012, 08:09 AM
Wait, what game are you talking about?

Full_Bleed
07-22-2012, 08:14 AM
Wow.

The game is borderline monty-haul now... and easier than ever.

djl
07-22-2012, 08:21 AM
DDO is an MMORPG, grinding is part of the genre. If you do not like grinding, you are playing the wrong type of games. Every single MMORPG involves grinding because that is how companies make their money off you. They make progress a grind so that it takes time and they get more months of subscription fees out of you. It's based off a psychology principal called Operant Conditioning.

And FWIW, the loot grind became considerably easier with U14. Not only did they apparently drastically up the drop rate on Epic Scrolls, but Epic Difficulty itself became much easier. And if you are hardcore enough to do Epic Elite, lewts literally overflow into your bags. :) The game is the most balanced it has ever been with regards to grinding. Epic Hard is still likely a challenge for newer players, but not so rough that it is completely exclusive like old Epic used to be. Epic Elite is a tad harder than old Epic, which is good for the veteran players who have lots of gear and know how to play their toons to perfection. The grinding element of the game is now in the leveling system, as it should be, and not the itemization system. To cap your Destiny it doesn't involve that much grinding, but if you want to unlock all your twists to provide a substantial boost in power and make your toon more well-rounded, it requires a large time investment to grind out several destinies.

count_spicoli
07-22-2012, 09:16 AM
your off base here on this one. i use to like the old system in that there was some rare loot in the game that was very exciting to find and have (like the ion stone). that was the fun part of playing d&d was being a treasure hunter and finding rare cool items you could show off to your group. now they have made it so anybody can get this loot and nothing is really that rare anymore. guys who play the game 2 times a week can have as good a gear as i guy who plays 3 hours a day. to me the need to go back to a system of having rare and hard to attain items to make this game what it is supposed to be A bunch of adventurers seaching for the hidden treasures.

Zenako
07-22-2012, 09:22 AM
Sorry OP but your experience seems to be the exception, not the rule. Turbine has taken great lengths (and many would argue too much so) to make the game easier to play and to gather up suitable gear for all levels of play. You have a 2006 forum join date, so if you really played back then, you have some concept of how much things have changed to be easier.

About the only thing that is not easier today is to get "everything". At one point when there were fewer quests, no TR, etc, no crafting or event items, it was possible to know you had the best of the best gear. Now there is no one solution that rules the roost, but many, so it can feel harder to get everything, until you realize you do not need everything.

Syllph
07-22-2012, 09:55 AM
disagree on almost every point.

Firstly Turbine rarely listens to us. they regularly make changes that we didn't ask for or don't like. Tempest Ranger, Abbot, LoB explorer area, I could go on.

Secondly, I've been playing since 2010 and every update the game has become easier except for about 3 quests which have become much harder. The game now has massive XP bonuses, easy-grind challenge items (play for about 30 minutes and you have an item - a good item too - this is not a grind at all), easy-mode event items, Non-blanket immunity mobs (ever play epics when they first came out: it's a joke now), Massively increased damage mods to both melee and casters (more so casters), again i could go on.....

As for elitists choosing difficulty: Turbine made a fully new system that has Casual-Elite Epic. I'm certain the elitists you've mentioned didn't petition for Epic-Casual. You can run that. It won't bite as much as Epic Elite which you don't ever, ever, ever have to run. It's easy run a quest that is right for you, Epic Normal, Epic Hard. turbine made it so the elitist could have fun AND the completely new player could too. they didn't acquiesce to the extreme player.

As for loot drop rates? Run a quest three times and presto! This is your super low drop rate? we're getting drops like this: http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii120/SonilasFX/eevon62.png

and yet you think the drop rate is horrible?

Simply said I disagree with everything you've said.

wey4lust
07-22-2012, 10:44 AM
I think this is awsome game full of bugs, but still i love it, and i do recomend it to all my friends. For someone that start playing and having fun in korthos/harbor etc. bugs dont relly matter.

I just hope they fix some things, as for grind, i hate it but i was playing other games, like (dont know if you can post other games names here) Lineage 2. L2 was grind getin items that let you be usefull and do a thing was takin like year, and craft system was: get bazilion sticks and milion stones to craft plate, now just 100 more plates and gazylion other sticks to have 60% of craft item.

DDO is still mmo so you need to work on your items but compare to other games out there its no grind heaven.

bigolbear
07-22-2012, 10:54 AM
Yet another player who thinks they should be entitled to beat the hardest dificulty setting a game has to offer with little to no 'investment' of time.

DEAR OP, the reason vets can beat the hardest setting has far more to do with actual gameplay experience - knowing all those little tricks, what abilities work on what, what kind of defeneces an enemy has etc than it does with gear.

Epic normal is very easily playable by new and casual players, epic hard (in most cases) is a challenge for newer players and is the default normal mode for experienced players. epic elite is by design a silly mode, like nightmare mode in old games. its designed to break you, to make you change and adapt you technique and tactics - not to make you grind for more so your bonuses are good enough to ignore tactics.

Its not that vets are lording their gear over you, its that you feel inadequate and impotent and want to play the game on the hardest setting to make your self feel good - but your not up to that task.

The fact is neither am I 99% of the time, Ive played epic elite, ive even got a few completions - but I was definately fighting above my wieght category and i knew it. Epic elite is not for me (most of the time) I can accept that, why cant you?

Khimberlhyte
07-22-2012, 10:54 AM
I have several guildies who capped characters slowly, in a few hours a week, over the course of a year or more. One keeps an alt in a static group with friends one night a week - they're all level 3 TRs now. Another two duoed to cap, and are level 11 TRs now - it's taken them two years or more to do that. They tend to keep to themselves and have never been in a raid to my knowledge.

Your argument is bunk. If you want to keep up with the people who capped a level 25 the day after epic levels opened, have a half dozen capped characters, have level 150/150/150 in crafting, and who store massive amounts of twink gear on an army of storage alts, you need to spend time in game. Massive amounts of time. Just like in real life, if you want three mansions, a Ferrari, and a supermodel wife, you (barring inheritance) will have to work at it.

However, you can easily cap a single main character in less than a year of playing a few hours a week. You can cap an alt for farming even faster with twink gear, quest knowledge, XP tome, and hard bravery streak. You can play any content without raid gear - especially with the new gear from challenges and Forgotten Realms. It takes some time and repetition, but that is the nature of the game.

On my monk, I'm up to four or five pieces of new U14 named items from a single completion of the first two new chains and commendation turn-ins (maybe around 800 kills in Kings Forest) - which likely took less than 20 hours of play. When I compare that to the grind for my mains Torc, greensteel and other gear, or even worse, the old epic seal/shard/scroll grind that I refused to do, it is insanely easy to get powerful new gear sets in Forgotten Realms.


I want to recommend DDO to people but cannot do so with the knowledge that I would be subjugating that person to hours of endless grinding play just to make a playable toon ("come geared" as the lfm's say). There are too many (way too many) grind points. Imagine just greensteel items (e.g. the difficulty of getting enough devil's scales). Now combine that with the LoB items, house C challenge items, +4 tomes, etc. ad nauseaum and multiply that by the number of characters you'd like to build and you begin to get the picture.


I was taking characters into old epics without any greensteel, LoB items, House C challenge items, or tomes >+2. In new epics, none of those matter, since there is normal and casual difficulty. It has taken me three years to cap around 8 characters, and only one has done a TR, currently third life. I have friends who do TRs in three weeks or less, mine take 3 months or more.

It appears that your aspirations do not match your ability. If you want have a dozen capped and fully geared characters in a few months of playing a few hours a week, I'd suggest that you adjust your expectations and aspirations downwards, rather than asking Turbine to turn leveling and gearing into even more of pushing an "I win" button.

samthedagger
07-22-2012, 12:10 PM
*checks OP post date*
Yeah, the first post on his thread was definitely AFTER MotU. Huh. I wonder if the OP got lost. Loot tables just got insanely generous.

As for drop rates on rare items, well they wouldn't be rare or special if everyone had one now would they? Not like they are needed anyway, except for maybe the most elite of elite epic raids, and you don't have to do those to enjoy this game.

Phidius
07-22-2012, 12:52 PM
There are times I agree with you, Op... after running the same quest on eHard over and over and over and over, and not seeing a single Seal, let alone the want I want, really drains my incentive to play this game.

I believe Turbine let grinding get out of hand during the Year of Silence as they were trying to keep the game population statisfied with a handful of quests, and really had to make them last. They're getting betterat reducing the grind, though - just not very quickly.


...And FWIW, the loot grind became considerably easier with U14. Not only did they apparently drastically up the drop rate on Epic Scrolls, but Epic Difficulty itself became much easier. And if you are hardcore enough to do Epic Elite, lewts literally overflow into your bags. :) ...

And yet I've read threads that claim that eElite is hardly any better than eHard. Which is it? 'Cause eHard is pretty stingy with lewts.

Charononus
07-22-2012, 10:25 PM
Wow just wow, I just got done running a druid up from level 1, and other than some crafted stat items I only used what I pulled till about lvl 18 where I bought some good spell power items. With that said, with no gs, no old epic items, no crafted items, I soloed every new eh in motu and many old epics. You don't need gear, you need a little quest knowledge to run everything in the game and even that is optional with the nerfed difficulty of ec-eh. Gear is so much easier to get in motu that I personally think they need to nerf drop rates, just to increase the games life cycle.

Missing_Minds
07-22-2012, 10:53 PM
*scratches head* I've GOT to be playing a different game compared to the OP.

V_mad_jester_V
07-22-2012, 11:39 PM
*checks OP post date*
Yeah, the first post on his thread was definitely AFTER MotU. Huh. I wonder if the OP got lost. Loot tables just got insanely generous.

As for drop rates on rare items, well they wouldn't be rare or special if everyone had one now would they? Not like they are needed anyway, except for maybe the most elite of elite epic raids, and you don't have to do those to enjoy this game.

for starters i know are other post after this one but nothing i wanna/feel like comment on next

I agree that this post is not right, since the update i have seen more tomes dropping (myself being the recepient) along with party members and guldies

some of my guildies have been getting so many scrolls they dont know what they wanna do anymore. It used to be oh epic scroll i wont use /vendor, but now is hmmi got 2 jidz scrolls, a few spy daggers, ect any one want any, or like two of my guildies, they just went on an epic crafting spree for shiggles.

The loot has been much nicer lately, still get a good mix of trash, but i have seen more and more named items drop, for instance the diplo set, got 2 bloody cleavers from boss chest and end chest, 3 snake skin vest total, katras wit more times then i can count, all now vendor trash.

attack on storm reach, if i see one more crimson chain from undermine my head might explode

what the real problem is, with the increase of tome drops and nicer items dropping ah prices still seems to be the same on my server >.>

Ilindith
07-22-2012, 11:40 PM
DDO, a grinding game?

http://i45.tinypic.com/ac4i68.gif

I'm sorry OP, but that is just too funny. I suggest you never try a Korean MMO.

*Remembers playing Lineage 2 and Ragnarok Online*. Now THAT was grinding.

V_mad_jester_V
07-22-2012, 11:46 PM
DDO, a grinding game?

http://i45.tinypic.com/ac4i68.gif

I'm sorry OP, but that is just too funny. I suggest you never try a Korean MMO.

*Remembers playing Lineage 2 and Ragnarok Online*. Now THAT was grinding.

i come from a korean family and my uncle is HUGE into gaming, and my gawd the hours he spent in the game farming and grinding the same damn map made my head spin, i was surprised he didnt get sick of those games.

Memnir
07-22-2012, 11:55 PM
No.

psi0nix
07-23-2012, 12:10 AM
Drop rates are fine, I mean I have run that well quest in FR only 15 times, and have one green scale already...................

Myrddinman
07-23-2012, 12:13 AM
No.

Simply ^this ;)

Vordax
07-23-2012, 12:18 AM
Not sure what game the OP is playing but the loot is so much more powerful now. For instance the last 2 level 6 quests I did, I had a +1 tome on the end rewards, I took the impressive trophy instead.

MsEricka
07-23-2012, 02:20 AM
What everyone else said that disagreed with the OP.

No

Alrik_Fassbauer
07-23-2012, 05:10 AM
I'm usually doing every quest only once to thrice, epending on how much fun it is.

So I never see much of the btter gear anyway.

Which results me in being very surprised what people sometimes get.

And yes, I've had 2 (non-epic) quests where my end reward consisted of ONLY +2 - +3 leather & other light armor ... That happens, too. But that was pre-14, or even pre-13.

Uska
07-23-2012, 05:56 AM
This is one of the easiest games to play and get loot there is and also one the most casual play friendly so don't know what your intent is but either you don't really play or..........

Chai
07-23-2012, 06:23 AM
Want to experience a real grind game? Go play pre kunark EQ1 for a couple months. 1 week timers. No instances. Nothing like rounding up everyones guild mains to go into the plane of fear, only to discover it was already cleared for the week. When you finally do get to a world boss first, its like 90 minutes to clear the trash mobs, plus another 20-30 for the boss fight. Dont screw up, or you will wipe, then watch another guild walk in while you recover and kill the world boss your guild politely cleared the trash to for them. :p

Here in DDO, we play a game where the new raid comes out, and people beat it handedly within 90 minutes. They spent more time arguing on the forums about who got the first completion that it took to get the completion.

stoerm
07-23-2012, 06:28 AM
The OP feels entitled to all named items and being able to do all content just by showing up. That's not how you keep your customers. MMOs are all about hooking the players and keeping them playing. They cannot allow you to win, although that is what the OP wants.

Yes many LFMs are elitist, but for some reason nobody ever joins my normal lvl groups. It's your own fault for buying into the must-be-l337 talk. You can play DDO and enjoy it on 28pt toons with average gear.

If anything DDO had become too easy and too generous with the last updates, and it's reducing my motivation to play. This coming from someone who took almost 2 years to cap my first character.

No.

Thrudh
07-23-2012, 06:41 AM
Unless you are prepared to invest (I choose that word carefully) a lot of time into the game, you will not be able to do most of the content.

This is 100% incorrect. You can do most, if not all, of the content on normal or hard without any special items.


In the end, DDO can either be a game that anyone can jump into right away and begin enjoying (which would increase DDO's population by leaps and bounds)

This is exactly what it is, which is why the Free-to-play decision made a few years ago worked so well. Population has already increased by leaps and bounds.

Miow
07-23-2012, 08:36 AM
Um, what?

Excuse me, but what game are you playing. Turbine has made loot acquisition alot easier with MotU.

Besides, normal difficulty, which is targeted for a casual player, doesn't need any kind of special loot, especially not +4 tomes, alchemicals and i would even dare to say not even greensteel. You would do fine even with random lootgen.

I agree, if anything they made the game too easy in some aspects and he wants more...i mean really?

Goregnash
07-23-2012, 08:52 AM
DDO, a grinding game?

I'm sorry OP, but that is just too funny. I suggest you never try a Korean MMO.

*Remembers playing Lineage 2 and Ragnarok Online*. Now THAT was grinding.

Try playing EvE. Holy Cow.

Quetzacoala
07-23-2012, 08:57 AM
I cannot recommend DDO to friends or coworkers.

I want to because it is a great game (or more to the point, it has the potential of becoming a great game; all the pieces are in place).

The problem is the grinding nature of the game.

Unless you are prepared to invest (I choose that word carefully) a lot of time into the game, you will not be able to do most of the content.

Turbine is allowing a tiny group of players (the elitists) to dictate the difficulty level and more importantly the drop rates of the most powerful items in the game, keeping them extremely low so that a huge time investment is necessary to create a character capable of running epic elite quests.

In the end, DDO can either be a game that anyone can jump into right away and begin enjoying (which would increase DDO's population by leaps and bounds) or it can remain a niche game controlled by a tiny elitist group who insist on keeping the whole game grindy so that they can then boast that they are powerful and everyone else is a "gimp."

I suspect Turbine will be afraid of alienating this tiny group and will choose to appease them rather than heed this advice. But the end result, Turbine, is that it is only you that will be hurt when you fail to bring in more players who would love to get into a game like this but do not have the 8-12 hours per day (or even 2 hours per day) necessary to build just a single toon (not to mention if you want to create a variety of toons).

Note I'm not asking for the difficulty level to be made easy. Some quests are beautiful but extremely difficult and feel "rushed" like Picture Portals. Those need to have their difficulties reworked.

But more importantly though, the ability to create a viable toon should be adjusted without ridiculous drop rates if you are ever to appeal to more than just a niche group of elitists.

I want to recommend DDO to people but cannot do so with the knowledge that I would be subjugating that person to hours of endless grinding play just to make a playable toon ("come geared" as the lfm's say). There are too many (way too many) grind points. Imagine just greensteel items (e.g. the difficulty of getting enough devil's scales). Now combine that with the LoB items, house C challenge items, +4 tomes, etc. ad nauseaum and multiply that by the number of characters you'd like to build and you begin to get the picture.

Believe it or not, some of us would like to play the game because we enjoy video games and like a role playing multiplayer environment not just because we need to be bribed to do so for items !

Also get rid of all the cooldowns that have cropped up along the way. Even 10 second cooldowns like on sprint boosts go a long way to putting a wet towel on the excitement of this game.

Begin to focus more on what you can do for gameplay (to make the game actually funner to play) than just mere item grinding. Items are great. Drop rates are not (except for the elitists who will come on here now and whine and complain about this post).

Again, Turbine, you only have yourself to hurt if you choose to follow the advice of the elitists. Imagine the potential you have to increase your share of the MMORPG market by making it easier to make a viably geared toon and focusing on gameplay instead of item and xp grinding.

Honestly, this is not true.

I am, in many ways, a below average player; I rarely run raids, I normally just use the gear I find while questing, and I do not have dozens of past lives. However, I am able to constantly run elite quests with little chance of failure and you are claiming that I need to make an investment in gear to complete these things?

In many ways, this game is too forgiving of those without good-quality gear, and I speak as one of those people.

Schmoe
07-23-2012, 09:49 AM
I cannot recommend DDO to friends or coworkers.

I want to because it is a great game (or more to the point, it has the potential of becoming a great game; all the pieces are in place).

The problem is the grinding nature of the game. <snip>


Hi Welcome to DDO. Unlike many MMOs, you will find that DDO provides a rich and enjoyable play experience for players of many different calibers with widely varying amounts of freedom. While it provides challenges for those who are willing to spend many hours perfecting their characters and attempting the most difficult content, it also provides a wealth of adventures for those who are looking to enjoy a more casual experience without requiring the most elite gear to succeed. Enjoy the game.

Ziindarax
07-23-2012, 09:45 PM
Um, what?

Excuse me, but what game are you playing. Turbine has made loot acquisition alot easier with MotU.

Besides, normal difficulty, which is targeted for a casual player, doesn't need any kind of special loot, especially not +4 tomes, alchemicals and i would even dare to say not even greensteel. You would do fine even with random lootgen.

This - Prior to U14, I rarely looked in the AH for random generated loot, unless I was looking for lowbie gear with which to equip my next life character. Now, I am looking the AH everyday for the decent, semi-perfect random gen weapon.

Never before would I have dropped 500k platinum in a randomly generated khopesh, but with Risia around the corner in the next few months (presumeably speaking), it was well worth it seeing as it had 1d8 bleeding, followed by 1d4 bleeding, along with Brilliance (light-type damage with a burst effect), and Flame blast (on critical only, but with bonus proc on vorpals). Same goes for the 14k platinum Pandemonium Khopesh that has two critical hit effects, plus slow burst. With Icy Burst on both weapons, I am looking at, quite possibly, the most powerful level 10 weapons in the game, EVER! (Against mobs that have vulnerabilities to fire, ice, light [which is virtually EVERYTHING in the game in that they at least take normal-grade damage, and vampires take double damage from light], and bleeding, as well as sonic, that's a LOT of damage coming from weapons that score criticals often on a build that has IC:Slashing - Do the math, and you will find that virtually no named weapon at level 10 and under will come CLOSE to the damage of those random-gen weapons).

Toughness can be found on random generated items now, and there are more than a few items that give improved elemental resistances (Prsims gives up to three resistances for 20 points depending on the grade, and one of those resistances is toward light [only named item that gives you ANY resistance to Light-type damage is Epic Phiarlan Mirror cloak]).

Powerful guards such as cacophony, lightning strike, Incineration, Slay living, etc, can also be found on randomly generated loot.

All this said, named items simply offer more effects per slot, but in the case of caster-oriented loot, Random gen is actually much better (and easier to obtain) than much of the older items that provided a boost to spell casting.

Edit: BTW, I am not even considering commendation loot, which is VERY easy to obtain, even if you did all the Eveningstar content on casual/normal.

Talias006
07-23-2012, 10:12 PM
Want to experience a real grind game? Go play pre kunark EQ1 for a couple months. 1 week timers. No instances. Nothing like rounding up everyones guild mains to go into the plane of fear, only to discover it was already cleared for the week. When you finally do get to a world boss first, its like 90 minutes to clear the trash mobs, plus another 20-30 for the boss fight. Dont screw up, or you will wipe, then watch another guild walk in while you recover and kill the world boss your guild politely cleared the trash to for them. :p

Here in DDO, we play a game where the new raid comes out, and people beat it handedly within 90 minutes. They spent more time arguing on the forums about who got the first completion that it took to get the completion.

That part about pre-Kunark EQ1... good times, I recall a similar episode when on the Rathe server that Blood of the Spider cleared Fear, and then the next time it was up trained EVERYTHING to the "safe" spot where people were gathering for another planned raid, then promptly logged out.

/Off Tangent
Ah, the memories... Completely unrelated, but a friend of mine ran his 55 Necro through Mistmoore Castle(?), and had his ridiculously powerful TWF skeleton pet charmed and then eventually camped the entrance area. Death came for all lower levels that were in that zone. A few days later they had to have a GM come in and remove him. Too much of "LOADING PLEASE WAIT" happening, I guess. ;) :D
/Tangent

Continue with your discussions!