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Tunst
07-21-2012, 04:26 PM
Before anyone begins to yell about how this will completely break the game, I'd like to only ask you to read the whole thing. I will even put in paragraph breaks to not smack you in the jaw with a wall of text. Alright, gonna try to keep this fairly short.

We've all been in a group where we go to run a longer quest, say Coal Chamber, or VoN 3, and after a hefty amount of time invested into this quest, the group fails. It's frustrating. It completely sucks to have that happen.

What I want to suggest, and would love to see implemented in game would be the ability to turn in a quest, even if it isn't complete. This comes with a price though. The objectives need to be marked by percentage complete in the quest, making us still have to do the quest, and say we hit 8/10 objectives (assuming they're all about equal in challenge), then we're 80% done with the quest, thus if we fail, we can recall, and turn in the 80% complete WHEN THE INSTANCE IS LOST. Therefore we cannot step in and return in multiple times. But upon turning in an 80% complete quest, you get 80% - Quest Level(2) xp for the quest.

Example;
Quest level: 5
Quest xp upon completion: 10,000.
The group fails but has completed 80%
If the group waits the 5 minutes, or all leave and thus lose the instance of the quest, they can turn in the quest to the guy.
He will award them:
Completion xp 10k - (80% - 5(quest level)*2)
Completion xp 10k - 70%
A gran total of 7k xp for completing 80% of the quest, and no end reward because the quest was not successfully completed.

Thoughts and feedback are welcome
If responding negatively to this, I ask that you explain why you are and if there are any solutions to what you see wrong with it.

IE:
Good: "it sucks because thats still too much xp"
Bad: "This is stupid."

Thank you.

Expalphalog
07-21-2012, 04:54 PM
I don't like it. I agree that it sucks to, say, fall off the edge in Von6 after two hours of babysitting morons in part 5 who are too embarrassed to admit they picked up the ring. *Grrrr*

But I simply cannot agree with rewarding failure. If you don't finish the race, you don't get a medal. If you don't pass the test you don't get ice cream. And if you don't complete the quest, you don't get your vendor trash. :)


Plus, some people would just Leeroy Jenkins their way as far as they could to get the XP and never complete a single quest. Now if that's how they want to play, then power to them, but something tells me that Turbine would frown on this practice. They introduced Dungeon Alert for a reason after all.

redspecter23
07-21-2012, 04:56 PM
Partial xp should be awarded in the form of optionals. Many quests have a good chunk of xp in optionals, but unfortunately some like coal chamber don't have many optionals and the quest itself can be quite long.

Creating a set of "checkpoints" for xp for each individual quest would be a huge undertaking and even then, I'm sure there will be some situations in which this can be broken.

Example

Complete 90% of the Reaver raid on elite. Gain 30k + xp. Recall, reform and do your first elite run again for another huge bonus.

Really it seems to be more trouble than it's worth. I'd like to see more optionals in some quests that actually count for xp. Amrath is notorious for optionals with no extra xp and that area could really use the bump.

Standal
07-21-2012, 05:41 PM
Really, optional XP is what you're asking for and it's already there. When I was a newb, I got 1/2 level trying to solo von 3 on a barb with hireling. I didn't even care because I was getting a lot of partial XP.

As somebody who soloed a lot before I found my guild and who still solos a lot when guildies aren't on, I feel your pain. But the answer is to find ways to beat the current game as is, not nerf the difficulty until you can win by losing.

The game and its PnP origin is based on completing quests, not attempting them. I think the new loot changes will help a lot in making it possible to run quests at level as a new player since you won't be running with ML5 loot in a level 9 quest.

Todkaninchen
07-21-2012, 06:21 PM
What's the incentive?

I mean, really...

The incentive (XP) is tied to accomplishing something, in this case optionals and/or quest completion. Why should they incentive half-assery?

Just pointing it out.

Bekki
07-21-2012, 06:27 PM
Sorry, but I have to dissagree with this.

If you hired someone to do a job and they didn't finish the job
Would you want to pay them for the job?

Take the quest to Protect the two bartenders...
If you were the owner; would you pay a party who let
The two guys get killed? I think not.

Same for the bookbinder rescue...

There is no reward for failure. I know it sounds harsh
But I don't agree with this. And I say this after having
Recently been through a tough 3 hours trying to solo
"Lords of Dust" on elite. I squandered 10k XP, racked up
Oh... 3K pp in repair bills, I had to walk away with my head
Held low and admit defeat for the day... But I cannot say
I deserved the end reward. I failed, I don't get paid.
Pure and simple.

It a hard line attitude but that's just the way I feel.

V_mad_jester_V
07-21-2012, 06:31 PM
Yeah i think as the rest of the group pointed out this post should be more of a "ad in more opts" post, rather than semi completion. Real life dosent even work like that, you dont complete you assignment at work your fired there is no "close but half cigar". Also noobs wouldnt understand the impact of failure, it would be teaching them to do things the wrong way.

Krelar
07-21-2012, 06:47 PM
What I want to suggest, and would love to see implemented in game would be the ability to turn in a quest, even if it isn't complete.


Hey there mister quest giver I know you asked me to go save your daughter and all but I got about halfway in then the kobolds kicked my butt. Could I have a reward anyways? It's ok if its a smaller reward. :D

Doesn't sounds right to me.

V_mad_jester_V
07-21-2012, 08:14 PM
Hey there mister quest giver I know you asked me to go save your daughter and all but I got about halfway in then the kobolds kicked my butt. Could I have a reward anyways? It's ok if its a smaller reward. :D

Doesn't sounds right to me.

I couldnt stop the Drooam forces for taking over stormreach, but at least we gave it a shot

MsEricka
07-21-2012, 11:51 PM
Even if your idea was implemented, this would happen

What about flagging? You used the idea of coal chamber. To flag for Shroud you MUST complete coal chamber AND take your stone. Your method allows people to complete coal chamber incompletely. Not only would this lead to about a billion posts on the forums with people whining that they did the quest but aren't flagged, they would also open up about a billion support tickets asking why they aren't flagged for Shroud. Currently GM's will not tell people why they aren't flagged because it's not a GM's job to tell players how to play the game.

So then we'd get another billion forum posts about people whining how much support sucks and how they're going to rage quit.

And you think this is a good idea? Really?!

This section deals with the reality of the current game and existing mechanics

This gets the dumbest idea of the week award.

1) The mechanics don't exist
2) It's open to abuse
3) It's an easy button
4) There aren't that many quests out there that if you wipe you can't get back into within five minutes so it's not necessary.

So how is it open to abuse?

Player 1 has quest at 9/10. Players 2 through 6 have 0/10. Player one enters, invites players 2 through six who by your definition would start where player 1. Player 1 leaves quest, swaps to alt, joins party. Party completes quest getting full XP for 1/10 of the required work. (see below for full XP info)

See, while you might think it's a good idea. DDO doesn't have the ability to distinguish

1) time in quest to award partial XP when the whole party has been in for the extact same amount of time. Yes the system can tell when someone has come in late, this has nothing to do with it.

2) "save" spots. They don't exist, and would need to be programmed into every quest which is a TON of work. This would means developers would need to edit each and every quest, which would add time, difficulty and issues for every programmer.

3) amount of work involved to get to point "a". You do know there is a bonus that 99.9% of groups never get right? It's called a Devious bonus (discreet/devious/insidious cunning) which is awarded when very few monsters are killed in a quest. Turbine knows your kill count, but they can't tell you how you got that kill count. A party cheating their way with your system would probably end up with a devious bonus as well.

Don't think people would abuse it? Then you're lying to yourself. In fact this would up the number of dualboxers at least by 100% so they could easy button all the way to 20 (or even 25).

Think it would be too hard? At low levels it's not even worth the time. But take a party with a level 25 and a level 10. Go do 9/10 of the quest and leave. Now proceed to do this with all quests up to level 14. Now take a level 15 and a 25, go do all quests up to level 19 9/10 of the way. And lastly take a level 25 and a 20 and go do the rest of the quests 9/10 of the way. In fact you could probably just get away with two characters to save yourself the character slot cost on a F2P account by going 11-15, 16-20.

It doesn't take much to get a free to play the right packs to power level a party from 10-20 with your system. In fact I'd bet with your system you could go 10-20 on a double TR in a day without breaking a sweat.


tl;dr
The mechanics don't exist, to add them would be a massive time sink for developers. The idea is open to abuse simply due the current in-game mechanics. if the mechanics were changed it would cause a forum/GM nightmare from people who don't understand the broken mechanics of being able to complete an incomplete quest.

Munkenmo
07-22-2012, 12:03 AM
This seems very politically correct.

It's ok you failed, here have a completion anyway. Would you like a cuddle with that too?

There's a casual difficulty for people who really struggle with, or simply can't be bothered with the more challenging difficulties. If they can't flag at that difficulty then they're going to get an even bigger shock when the reach the raid that only has normal/hard/elite.

I'm in no way opposed to seeing more optionals put into quests to award people with exp for progressing through a quest, but i don't like people being rewarded for failure.

Memnir
07-22-2012, 12:04 AM
No thank you.

sirgog
07-22-2012, 12:51 AM
Partial xp should be awarded in the form of optionals. Many quests have a good chunk of xp in optionals, but unfortunately some like coal chamber don't have many optionals and the quest itself can be quite long.

Creating a set of "checkpoints" for xp for each individual quest would be a huge undertaking and even then, I'm sure there will be some situations in which this can be broken.

Example

Complete 90% of the Reaver raid on elite. Gain 30k + xp. Recall, reform and do your first elite run again for another huge bonus.

Really it seems to be more trouble than it's worth. I'd like to see more optionals in some quests that actually count for xp. Amrath is notorious for optionals with no extra xp and that area could really use the bump.

It's done well in Devil Assault and was in Shroud when that raid first launched (not so much now as optional XP is hammered harder than quest XP by overlevel penalties).

Get to wave 4 in Epic Normal Devil Assault and wipe and you walk out with ~10k XP and the part 3 chest.