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thomhas_of_mabar
07-20-2012, 11:52 PM
As the title says, which skills are worth having?
Furthermore, which of the skills are currently broken?
(Last I heard, Consume and Executioner's Strike were broken. True?)

Meld into Darkness - 9 seconds only. useless?
Cloak of Shadows - useless?
Improved Invisibility - 10 seconds only. useless?
Escape Notice - has a roll. useless?
Shadow Form - stacks with displacement/blur/ghostly? useless?
Pierce the gloom - does 100% attack bonus help? useless?

Let's have some opinions from those with some experience.

LeLoric
07-21-2012, 04:15 AM
As the title says, which skills are worth having?
Furthermore, which of the skills are currently broken?
(Last I heard, Consume and Executioner's Strike were broken. True?)

Meld into Darkness - 9 seconds only. useless?
Cloak of Shadows - useless?
Improved Invisibility - 10 seconds only. useless?
Escape Notice - has a roll. useless?
Shadow Form - stacks with displacement/blur/ghostly? useless?
Pierce the gloom - does 100% attack bonus help? useless?

Let's have some opinions from those with some experience.

Consume and executioners strike are currently broken. Consume does nothing while executioners gives the +3[w] dmg but dosnt have the instakill chance go off.

Consume is in the patch 2 lammania release notes as being fixed nothing listed for executioners.

Of the other skills you listed most are not useless.

-Cloak of shadows (can be nice if ya get a 2 or 3 stack divine punishment on you)
-Improved invisibility (not useless at least for the displacement effect after the 10 seconds wears off very usefull with displacment no longer being able to be cast on other players)
-shadow form: 25% incorp is never useless it stacks with blur or displacement but not with ghostly. one of the most powerful abilities in shadowdancer.

The other three you list are pretty useless yes.

Tid12
07-21-2012, 04:41 AM
Consume and executioners strike are currently broken. Consume does nothing while executioners gives the +3[w] dmg but dosnt have the instakill chance go off.

Consume is in the patch 2 lammania release notes as being fixed nothing listed for executioners.

Of the other skills you listed most are not useless.

-Cloak of shadows (can be nice if ya get a 2 or 3 stack divine punishment on you)
-Improved invisibility (not useless at least for the displacement effect after the 10 seconds wears off very usefull with displacment no longer being able to be cast on other players)
-shadow form: 25% incorp is never useless it stacks with blur or displacement but not with ghostly. one of the most powerful abilities in shadowdancer.

The other three you list are pretty useless yes.

While shadowform might be good without doubt, with just 2d6 Epic moment, I would never go for that at this time. 2d6 is very little (compared to all the other epic moments) and I rather better Consume than that.

AFAIK Improved invisibility gives auto-SA so it might be really an option. However, 4m cooldown is really much..hate it.

Meld Into Darkness would be good if they get rid of the dodge cap at 25% (even if it's just for this ability). Right now, yeah useless.

soloist12
07-21-2012, 08:42 AM
Can still get shadowform with consume. Can't get consume+dark imbuement, which is fine, since dark imbuement is utterly terrible.

LazarusPossum
07-21-2012, 08:53 AM
What? Nobody thinks Sealed Soul looks the least bit useful?

Xyy
07-21-2012, 09:12 AM
What? Nobody thinks Sealed Soul looks the least bit useful?
It is excellent. Fortunately we can get this same benefit from deathward. I say fortunately because with all the shadowy goodness to pick from I didn't struggle too much skipping this one. Now if can just remember to cast it.

verad
07-21-2012, 09:21 AM
I agree its ****.

My ability to stay alive went down with armor change (thats ok i expect that)
My ability to do more damage went up barely especially in comparison to other
"DPS" classes.
My ability to avoid damage with dodge system (just isn't there)
Having low base hps/bab I would think there would be some greater advantage to being a rogue. This sneak system is weak and avoiding or disarming traps is not exclusive to the rogues class....so what do we have?? (well other than the obvious sneak attack)

I would like to see sneak always be active instead of toggling it without run penatly or maybe a not so harsh one like defender -10%. Attacking and doing actions of course
takes you out of that stealth but then you slowly return back into the shadows. It would be nice that your first attack was always a backstab with this sort of change.

Get rid of the autokill assasinate ability and instead add a crazy crit multiplier assasinate skill. 10 weapon multiplier or such or crit multiplier based on rogue levels /2 or some sort of formula where you can see it go up as you become a higher level and more dangerous foe. Auto kill abilitys are either entirely too good or too useless. There seems to be no happy ground here.

Miow
07-21-2012, 09:26 AM
Some of the stuff is nice, but i'll probably end up twisting some abilities and leveling Dreadnought to see how that turns out.

LazarusPossum
07-21-2012, 09:52 AM
It is excellent. Fortunately we can get this same benefit from deathward. I say fortunately because with all the shadowy goodness to pick from I didn't struggle too much skipping this one. Now if can just remember to cast it.

Well, I tend to solo much of the time, since most of my online friends are in different time zones.

As a passive feat, Sealed Soul is quite a nice feature without having to stick to only hirelings that can cast Death Ward. I only wish it was active, so I could twist it.

HidalgoXaran
07-21-2012, 10:16 AM
«Get rid of the autokill assasinate ability and instead add a crazy crit multiplier assasinate skill. »

That I don't agree with. Assassinate must be a situationnal ability, which allows you to play tactical or/and strategically. I am not found of everything being determined by a roll of dice.

Viciouspika
07-21-2012, 10:32 AM
Most of the activated boosts in shadowdance destiny are useless.

However, I have noticed that the Meld into Darkness does grant a higher dodge then the 25% max. When i click on it, my character sheet shows 56% dodge which works great for when I have agro.

Pierce the Gloom is useful only in boss fights just to increase SA damage that doesnt proc. on glancing blows.

Those two are the only one's i use on a regular basis. Getting more then one level in each increases the duration, this helps a little but not much.

Xyy
07-21-2012, 09:06 PM
However, I have noticed that the Meld into Darkness does grant a higher dodge then the 25% max. When i click on it, my character sheet shows 56% dodge which works great for when I have agro.
I wish mine did. I go from 24% to 25%. Seeing a lot of others that get the same result. Once a day I add it back to see if it was fixed by some miracle.

Malison
07-22-2012, 10:42 AM
Disclaimer: I'm not someone with experience. My planned shadowdancer is still on his way back to 20.

My plan for an assassin/shadowdancer is as follows.

1 Stealthy (3), Int
2 Int, Lithe (1)
3 Grim Precision (3), Shrouding Strike (3), Cloak of Shadows
4 Impr Invis (1)
5 Untouchable, Executioner (1), Shadow Manipulation
6 Consume, Shadow Form

Oncoming Darkness and Shadow Lance looked nice until reading 'unholy' damage. I can only think of 3 quests where you fight good-aligned enemies, and none of them are remotely difficult or worth running for a capped toon.
More points in improved invis could be good for longer displacement perhaps; my clickies are always out of charges.

Unfortunately, according to http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=379878, almost every single ability on this list is broken.

Sylvenon
07-22-2012, 10:43 AM
To the OP:

What bout Shadow Manipulation? Am I the only one that loves this enhancement? It didn't even make your list.

I have a 50dc on this one currently, and it makes solo'ing content so much easier. My charmed target pulls agro while I sneak about in Shadow Form (90 hide & move silently), I assassinate to get more charges, and then my charmed minion dies when he/she fails another 50dc roll after the charm wears off...I have never had a charmed target not die.

I have not tried an undead yet, but I believe you can charm anything that casts a shadow. All living targets I've encountered have become my victims.

Sylvenon
07-22-2012, 11:32 AM
I agree its ****.

My ability to stay alive went down with armor change (thats ok i expect that)
My ability to do more damage went up barely especially in comparison to other
"DPS" classes.
My ability to avoid damage with dodge system (just isn't there)
Having low base hps/bab I would think there would be some greater advantage to being a rogue. This sneak system is weak and avoiding or disarming traps is not exclusive to the rogues class....so what do we have?? (well other than the obvious sneak attack)



Assuming you have access to epic destinies (looks like you've been here a while).

If you are not loving the new rouge abilities, you're doing it wrong.

My first life, lvl23 Shadowdancer 5 / Assassin is soloing epic/hard content. Shadow Form, Blur (scroll or wand), Improved Deception (Golden Guile), Shadow Manipulation, 48dc assassinate and Heal scrolls. That's all I need to get to the end of the quest. The boss fights are usually the only challenging part, and pulling a Panther out of my pocket to hold agro and help dps seems to be working well thus far. As improved deception and bluff tend to keep the boss vulnerable to sneak attack from both of us for most of the fight.

(The quests in question are Tide Turns ans Bargain of Blood...trying to get my Epic Midnight Greetings)

HidalgoXaran
07-22-2012, 01:06 PM
«What bout Shadow Manipulation? Am I the only one that loves this enhancement?»

I really enjoy this ability too. However, It can be a pain in groups that want to go quickly when killing a wave of monster is needed to summon the second one...

If I am not mistaking, we don't have the ability to release/kill the creature we are shadow manipulating...

I'd like ShadowManipulation to let you trigger the death effect, aka, decide when it's shadows turns back on it... The automatic timer could be the same, the cooldown too, only we could decide to end its suffering when decided.

That would be a cool add-on.

HidalgoXaran

Forgeborn
07-22-2012, 01:18 PM
As a passive feat, Sealed Soul is quite a nice feature without having to stick to only hirelings that can cast Death Ward. I only wish it was active, so I could twist it.

You can twist passives, and actives, the only ones you cannot twist are innate's. However, as sealed soul is a tier 5 ability, it cannot be twisted (as the highest level for a fate slot is level 4, not that you would want to if you could, as it would cost 15 fate points (there's a total of 18 available at the moment) which would limit your other twists excessively)

pseudomasochist
07-23-2012, 08:29 AM
You can twist passives, and actives, the only ones you cannot twist are innate's. However, as sealed soul is a tier 5 ability, it cannot be twisted (as the highest level for a fate slot is level 4, not that you would want to if you could, as it would cost 15 fate points (there's a total of 18 available at the moment) which would limit your other twists excessively)
Has it been confirmed that Tomes of Fate add to one's total points rather than just give access earlier?

Tid12
07-23-2012, 08:47 AM
Has it been confirmed that Tomes of Fate add to one's total points rather than just give access earlier?

Tomes of Fate give +2 Fate points. As if you had done 6 Epic destinies Level.

pseudomasochist
07-23-2012, 09:00 AM
Tomes of Fate give +2 Fate points. As if you had done 6 Epic destinies Level.
Perhaps my question was poorly worded. Would using a Tome of Fate +2 mean a maximum of 18 potential Fate Points currently, or is the maximum still 16 and tomes only reduce the grind required?

When Tomes of Fate were introduced, there was speculation on this but I don't recall seeing anything definitive one way or another.

Tid12
07-23-2012, 12:03 PM
Perhaps my question was poorly worded. Would using a Tome of Fate +2 mean a maximum of 18 potential Fate Points currently, or is the maximum still 16 and tomes only reduce the grind required?

When Tomes of Fate were introduced, there was speculation on this but I don't recall seeing anything definitive one way or another.

18 maximum points.

thomhas_of_mabar
07-26-2012, 08:18 PM
Release notes state Consume has been fixed. Has anyone tried it? Any thoughts?
Furthermore, is Executioner's Strike working?

Xalir
07-26-2012, 09:02 PM
I tried it and i'm not a happy camper with it. Same spell as implosion with a longer cooldown and, I would not be surprised, same issues. Seems like it uses the same DC as Shadow Manipulation.

The main problem with this spell: It is almost useless for tactical situations. Although you don't break stealth while casting, enemies know then where you are. I haven't tested it in group play yet but I think I spend my points anywhere else than in this lame T6 ability.

soloist12
07-26-2012, 09:44 PM
I tried it and i'm not a happy camper with it. Same spell as implosion with a longer cooldown and, I would not be surprised, same issues. Seems like it uses the same DC as Shadow Manipulation.

The main problem with this spell: It is almost useless for tactical situations. Although you don't break stealth while casting, enemies know then where you are. I haven't tested it in group play yet but I think I spend my points anywhere else than in this lame T6 ability.

Not to mention technically it costs 6 points, since the charm and cloak are so bleh. I'm speccing out as well, not thrilled by it. I wish they fixed executioner strike instead.

LeLoric
07-26-2012, 10:23 PM
Not to mention technically it costs 6 points, since the charm and cloak are so bleh. I'm speccing out as well, not thrilled by it. I wish they fixed executioner strike instead.

The charm is bleh? Shadow manipulation is one of the best abilites shadowdancer has. The cloak is kinda bleh but it's nice for eating up a dp cast on you.

Consume works well althought the targeting immune mobs repeatedly can be a pain. With that shadow manipulation and assasinate, assassins have a pretty formidable instakill suite to back up some outstanding dps.

Bolo_Grubb
07-26-2012, 10:33 PM
is there a way to tell how many shadow charges you have?

soloist12
07-26-2012, 11:08 PM
The charm is bleh? Shadow manipulation is one of the best abilites shadowdancer has. The cloak is kinda bleh but it's nice for eating up a dp cast on you.

Consume works well althought the targeting immune mobs repeatedly can be a pain. With that shadow manipulation and assasinate, assassins have a pretty formidable instakill suite to back up some outstanding dps.

99% of the time, the charm just gets in the way of a quest with all the firepower out there now. I can see it being useful on elite in very certain quests.

LeLoric
07-26-2012, 11:12 PM
99% of the time, the charm just gets in the way of a quest with all the firepower out there now. I can see it being useful on elite in very certain quests.

It only gets in the way if your stupid using it. You don't use it on any mob that is required to kill. It draws aggro aggro immediately usually to allow for sneak attacks or an easy assassination and in EE content does a lot of dmg then it dies after 1 minute. It's an instakill that helps your dps for a minute first. As long as you arent charming mobs that are required kills immediately it's an exceptional ability.

Qezuzu
07-27-2012, 01:57 AM
The charm is bleh? Shadow manipulation is one of the best abilites shadowdancer has. The cloak is kinda bleh but it's nice for eating up a dp cast on you.

Consume works well althought the targeting immune mobs repeatedly can be a pain. With that shadow manipulation and assasinate, assassins have a pretty formidable instakill suite to back up some outstanding dps.

I'm going to second this guy here. Manipulation is extremely useful when used right.

I'm not impressed with Consume. It seems to have a *very* poor DC, and might still be broken. All said, I've Consumed a very small number of mobs, thought I've only used it a few times. I should test more and see if I wasn't just getting unlucky.

But the main problem with it is that you can't have Consume, Shadow Form, and the Neg Level Immunity all at once. You can only have two, and I don't think Consume is powerful enough (it would be nice if I could see the DC).

amsharkwei
09-19-2012, 07:56 AM
Consume were broken. surely

Executioner's Strike is fixed in last update,but I didn't test it yet

Meld into Darkness - 9 seconds only. useless?
Rank1:9 sec
Rank2:12sec
Rank3:15sec
this ability give you 100% dodge chance,can save your life

Cloak of Shadows - useless?
useless skill,but you have no chiose,because this skill is the require of "shadow manipulation"

Improved Invisibility - 10 seconds only. useless?
useless skill,but you have no chiose,because this skill is the require of "shadow form"

Escape Notice - has a roll. useless?
infact,many skill under T2 is useless

Shadow Form - stacks with displacement/blur/ghostly? useless?
25% miss changce,awesome

Pierce the gloom - does 100% attack bonus help? useless?

thomhas_of_mabar
10-09-2012, 09:33 AM
Consume were broken. surely

Executioner's Strike is fixed in last update, but I didn't test it yet




I just posted on the Epic Destinies forum regarding this skill. Basically ....


I want to know the current status of this.
I have yet to try it.

Does it work? What's kind of DEX do you need to get a decent success rate?
Is it better than assassinate? Is it useful to STR build rogues (I'm a STR build)?


Love to hear from those using this skill.