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Shade
07-19-2012, 12:38 PM
U15 Update:
Thanks for finally fixing Madstone to not prevent things it should not.
However Madstone Boots are STILL bugged. Would be nice if they could finally, after so many years.. Be fully fixed to work as the description states.

Exhibit A:
http://img607.imageshack.us/img607/1842/madstoneforeverbugged.jpg

Should speak for itself, but I'll point out the errors here:
-Item CLEARLY states +20% melee haste. New char sheet popup and effects log state 10%. (Actual via careful testing shows 10%)

Additional, another previously reported bug remains:
-Still incorrectly has the 30 seconds shaken debuff attached to it after it expires, which was specifically said it was removed by a dev.

Ticker: This is the 42,178th bug related to madstone boots.

(re-post because this bug is well deserving of ..more.. attention)

Chai
07-19-2012, 12:46 PM
They should just hire you Shade.

wax_on_wax_off
07-19-2012, 01:02 PM
Didn't know about the clicky reducing attack speed, won't be doing THAT anymore, thanks for the heads up.

Ravoc-DDO
07-19-2012, 01:08 PM
Only 62 STR? What happened?

Quarterling
07-19-2012, 01:24 PM
Didn't somebody in the past say that nothing good happens when Shade complains? Though granted, I hate the fact the the boots are bugged; but I don't think anyone knows when the developers will fix them. :(

Therrias
07-19-2012, 01:57 PM
They tried to "fix" it before at your request, it didn't go well.

Schmoe
07-19-2012, 01:59 PM
1. Examine the issue on a larger scale:
The big picture issue here:

EVERYTHING in the game that involves a special animation is by default considered "spell casting" and thus "not useable by rage, not useable while madstone raged, not useable while tensors/eating a Hezrou cookie/blade sworn transformed." Every single patch that changes anything related, the devs have to painstakingly manually go in 1 by 1 and flag the things to work with it.



That's pretty good advice. By now it should be clear that their current design doesn't work. Whatever it is, it doesn't work, and it's time for a change.

Wraith_Sarevok
07-19-2012, 02:42 PM
Should speak for itself, but I'll point out the errors here:
-Item CLEARLY states +20% melee haste. New char sheet popup and effects log state 10%. (Actual via careful testing shows 10%)
-- Even worse: Madstone melee speed overrides haste (which is 15% for melee), causing you to attack slower then intended.



On a related note, I don't think we gain any attack speed for having a temporary BAB of +25. At least I couldn't see any when I tested my swings. It should be adding +5% attack speed.

BruceTheHoon
07-19-2012, 03:05 PM
I had a sinking feeling that this would be the case when I read the notes, since it was explicitly put that they've fixed it with conjunction to barbarian rage.
I'll look for other annoying occurrences that are present on live after the update and may, or may not be WAI: search, disable device, activating subtle backstabbing...

Ivan_Milic
07-19-2012, 03:14 PM
They will fix them,in few years.

barryman5000
07-19-2012, 03:20 PM
eating a kobold


i want to eat that kobold . . . So tasty . . . But i am tooo angrrry!!

Tolero
07-19-2012, 03:39 PM
Rage is misbehaving on multiple levels atm and it is taking longer to sort it all out than anticipated. In the meantime please continue to report rage anomalies so we can make sure they are in the list. There are definitely some game behaviors that you should be able to do no matter how mad you are.

Ivan_Milic
07-19-2012, 04:11 PM
The problem is we cant get madder.

Dorian
07-19-2012, 04:52 PM
They should just hire you Shade.

Why hire him when he is doing all this QA and bug testing/reporting for free?

Alexandryte
07-19-2012, 04:57 PM
Also...even funnier of note...

Why keep rebalancing things over a lvl 13 piece of loot? Other things of higher level have been "fixed". Why are ESoS and Madstone boots the only ones that seem to attract any attention on a semi frequent basis for either point of comparison or something breaking?

It apparently is either too awesome to let go of....or theres a lack of other interesting choices. Both of which I would say is a problem.

Veriden
07-19-2012, 05:22 PM
You definitely shouldn't be able to tie your shoes when madstoned imo. Its over powered, as tying one's shoes requires control and concentration not to break your shoe laces at 110 strength.

Cauthey
07-19-2012, 05:28 PM
They should just hire you Shade.

As I understand it, the QA positions require some work with math. So, might not be a good fit. :p :D

Missing_Minds
07-19-2012, 06:06 PM
Been running with madstone for years. but honestly still haven't found a better general boot to wear.

I'm just going to start calling them "Hate Magnet Boots".

1. No body seems to know how they work. I mean look at the constant bugs.
2. Awwwww.
3. I hear more complaints about people not pulling them in Reaver than the other items.

Skavenaps
07-20-2012, 03:09 AM
Madstone still blocks tons of effects it should not, including, but not limited to:

Entering Stalwart/Sibery Stance

It should block this. rage dont work with this.

ravengerpl
07-20-2012, 03:41 AM
How about shaken procs after madstone rage? I just noticed this on live (when I took off my useless GS with proof agains poison/disease and fear immunity), but as far as I know it shouldn't proc.

Deamus
07-20-2012, 04:10 AM
Snip

I can verify that when madstoned on Granfmaster of flowers you cannot use the Lilly Petal and Orchid Blosom while you can still use when madstoned all the rest abilities like Drifting Lotus and Scatering Petals .

It is buged .

grayham
07-20-2012, 04:17 AM
Been running with madstone for years. but honestly still haven't found a better general boot to wear.

I'm just going to start calling them "Hate Magnet Boots".

1. No body seems to know how they work. I mean look at the constant bugs.
2. Awwwww.
3. I hear more complaints about people not pulling them in Reaver than the other items.

Personally I prefer rock boots. Take the initial Madstone clicky (when they fix it!!!!) and then swap over. The earthgrab and stone prison guard are pretty sweet, plus you don't have to faff around for 2 minutes before you can raise anyone or use other gear etc.

LightBear
07-20-2012, 04:48 AM
The Barabarians not being able to use spells while raged was added as a nerf for the overpoweredness of barbarians a long time back.

I would limited it to level 0, level 1 and levelless spells.
(Levelless is that a word?)

Cryohazard
07-20-2012, 07:32 AM
The problem is we cant get madder.

C'mon, its nothing a nerfbat won't fix! :D

Ivan_Milic
07-20-2012, 07:53 AM
How about shaken procs after madstone rage? I just noticed this on live (when I took off my useless GS with proof agains poison/disease and fear immunity), but as far as I know it shouldn't proc.

Lol,thats been here since u13,when they wanted to change madstone rage so you can cast spells,but then they decided not to change them after thread on lamannia,but shaken got on them.


Personally I prefer rock boots. Take the initial Madstone clicky (when they fix it!!!!) and then swap over. The earthgrab and stone prison guard are pretty sweet, plus you don't have to faff around for 2 minutes before you can raise anyone or use other gear etc.

But then you lose 30% striding(can slot 6 dex on epic slot).



C'mon, its nothing a nerfbat won't fix! :D
:D

Produktion_Malphunktion
07-20-2012, 07:56 AM
So yea thanks for fixing it so we can use barbarian rage again.. But why only go half way on this.. Would be a lot nicer if we could just fix them 100%, once and for all.

Exhibit A:
http://img607.imageshack.us/img607/1842/madstoneforeverbugged.jpg

Should speak for itself, but I'll point out the errors here:
-Item CLEARLY states +20% melee haste. New char sheet popup and effects log state 10%. (Actual via careful testing shows 10%)
-- Even worse: Madstone melee speed overrides haste (which is 15% for melee), causing you to attack slower then intended.

Madstone still blocks tons of effects it should not, including, but not limited to:

Primal Scream (Fury ED)
Boulder Toss (Fury ED)
Healing Spring (Shiradis ED)
Wild Shot (Shiradis ED)
Entering Stalwart/Sibery Stance
Changing Monks stances
Various actives in the Grandmaster Tree, (unverified for latest patch, any monk pls verify this)
Laying down a torch
Laying down a turret
Eating a kobold
Tieing your shoes
Logging out your character
Ok I made the last three up, but you get the picture, its a lot of things bugged.


(Related bugs: Infernal Power (Hezrou Cooke), Bloodrage and Tensors also block all of the above, in addition, they still block Barbarian Rage.)

Steps to fix:

1. Examine the issue on a larger scale:
The big picture issue here:

EVERYTHING in the game that involves a special animation is by default considered "spell casting" and thus "not useable by rage, not useable while madstone raged, not useable while tensors/eating a Hezrou cookie/blade sworn transformed." Every single patch that changes anything related, the devs have to painstakingly manually go in 1 by 1 and flag the things to work with it.

2. What should be done to fix way too often recurring bug permanently, once and for all:

Change Barbarian rage and Madstone rage to not block spell casting.
Manually flag spells which it should actually block as unusable while its active. Much the same as some spells are flagged as "not useable in pvp".

AKA: An always off versus the current always on.

This fix would work for today, and for every day in the future, and mean that instead of "extra work every time we make a new ability that has an animation" its less work load of "minor work only when we make new spells"

and even if you forget to set said flag, the consequences are far less:

At worse, next time you add a spell, it will be usable while madstoned because they forgot to set the flag.. But given the entire rest of your spell book wont be, using the boots on a caster would still be suicidal, so they wont be used. Its foolproof.

Ticker: This is the 41,178th bug related to "cant activate this while raged" in DDO. We really need to do a global fix already.

(re-post because this bug is well deserving of ..more.. attention)

Right. Madstone boots have more bpr (bugs per release) than any group of items in the game. Yes, there are more bugs for these boots than all of handwraps. My QA solution is to nuke them from orbit and start over. Lucky for you dev does not agree.
They are out for a full overhaul. The fixes are not in patch 2.

KainLionheart
07-20-2012, 08:16 AM
Madstone boots have more bpr (bugs per release)

BPR just became my favourite term, I will endever to use it more often (but hopefully not too often!! ;) )

Eladiun
07-20-2012, 08:36 AM
It because 6 years of lazy coding later everything is still a spell effect. You would think that as some point in 6 years this would have been fixed in the engine but no... everything is still a spell effect.

BruceTheHoon
07-20-2012, 09:00 AM
They are out for a full overhaul.

This is a cliffhanger, if I've ever seen one :D

Cauthey
07-20-2012, 09:04 AM
Right. Madstone boots have more bpr (bugs per release) than any group of items in the game. Yes, there are more bugs for these boots than all of handwraps. My QA solution is to nuke them from orbit and start over. Lucky for you dev does not agree.
They are out for a full overhaul. The fixes are not in patch 2.

Ooop, there we go with the math again...

:p

Gimpinator
07-20-2012, 09:39 AM
Lucky for you dev does not agree.

Hilarious!

Shade
07-20-2012, 09:48 AM
It should block this. rage dont work with this.

No, the correct functionality would be the same as spell rage, bbn rage or any other rage: It would remove and ward against the effect upon entering stance, not prevent you from doing so.

That way stalwarts could at least enjoy the passve benefits of the boots, without worrying about getting sudden madstoned after they die, before they could re-stance.

Barb rage per pnp always allows you to dismiss it. DDO does too, tho only for bbn rage.

Shade
07-20-2012, 09:51 AM
Right. Madstone boots have more bpr (bugs per release) than any group of items in the game. Yes, there are more bugs for these boots than all of handwraps. My QA solution is to nuke them from orbit and start over. Lucky for you dev does not agree.
They are out for a full overhaul. The fixes are not in patch 2.

Ok thanks. However, but the players don't want a full overhaul as we've seen before. We simply want functional madstone boots that work per there description. The fix in my op would do that.

Ivan_Milic
07-20-2012, 10:03 AM
Ok thanks. However, but the players don't want a full overhaul as we've seen before. We simply want functional madstone boots that work per there description. The fix in my op would do that.

Yep,we dont want more "fixes" like what you wanted to do in u12 with them but we only got shaken from it.

Chai
07-20-2012, 10:28 AM
Right. Madstone boots have more bpr (bugs per release) than any group of items in the game. Yes, there are more bugs for these boots than all of handwraps. My QA solution is to nuke them from orbit and start over. Lucky for you dev does not agree.
They are out for a full overhaul. The fixes are not in patch 2.

Considering the nerd rage skipped ludicrous and went straight to plaid when the last attempted madstone adjustment was made known, Im surprised you guys even fiddle with them anymore.

http://i49.tinypic.com/2dahpau.jpg

ravengerpl
07-20-2012, 11:09 AM
Lol,thats been here since u13,when they wanted to change madstone rage so you can cast spells,but then they decided not to change them after thread on lamannia,but shaken got on them.


Yeah, I know about attempts to change Madstone Boots in U13. But it shouldn't proc shaken - http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=4331223&postcount=854

Veriden
07-20-2012, 12:23 PM
No, the correct functionality would be the same as spell rage, bbn rage or any other rage: It would remove and ward against the effect upon entering stance, not prevent you from doing so.

That way stalwarts could at least enjoy the passve benefits of the boots, without worrying about getting sudden madstoned after they die, before they could re-stance.

Barb rage per pnp always allows you to dismiss it. DDO does too, tho only for bbn rage.

You're forgetting a very important part.

Stalwart and defender prestiges are focused on defense, the ability to control the environment of combat to greatly reduce the incoming damage and to manage the aggression of foes that would otherwise harm your party.

Rages, including madstone rage are all very wild fighting styles...or rather following instinct of fury and not discipline. What part of flailing about wildly is focus and discipline? None...alright, glad that's settled. I'd offer you some math, but this is an issue of logical source.

SableShadow
07-20-2012, 12:39 PM
Didn't madstone get bumped down to 10% back when they bumped down all the attack rate bonuses? circa U5?

Antiguo
07-20-2012, 01:09 PM
You're forgetting a very important part.

Stalwart and defender prestiges are focused on defense, the ability to control the environment of combat to greatly reduce the incoming damage and to manage the aggression of foes that would otherwise harm your party.

Rages, including madstone rage are all very wild fighting styles...or rather following instinct of fury and not discipline. What part of flailing about wildly is focus and discipline? None...alright, glad that's settled. I'd offer you some math, but this is an issue of logical source.


I dont think you get what "remove and ward against effect" means. Maybe instead being a smart*** you could try and read what he said.

Ivan_Milic
07-20-2012, 02:19 PM
Yeah, I know about attempts to change Madstone Boots in U13. But it shouldn't proc shaken - http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=4331223&postcount=854

But it is,that was 5 months ago :D

NytCrawlr
07-20-2012, 02:26 PM
My QA solution is to nuke them from orbit and start over. Lucky for you dev does not agree.

I wish dev would see the light and just create a whole new item, and then also make them available in more than one raid.

Qezuzu
07-21-2012, 04:00 AM
Raging increases the SP cost of spells by 1000%. Problem solved, possibly. I wouldn't imagine it would be too difficult to code, since there are already in-game effects that alter SP cost.

Barbarians get clickies, I guess, but I would imagine they activate buff clickies by chewing on them, and use offensive clickies (like Epic Big Top) by hitting the mob with the item itself.

Wraith_Sarevok
07-21-2012, 04:43 AM
Yeah, I know about attempts to change Madstone Boots in U13. But it shouldn't proc shaken - http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=4331223&postcount=854

It's still doing Shaken when it wears off even on Lamania U14.2. I just tried it.

It works with Barbarian Rage now though. Both the regular and Past Life one. Just have to memorize a new buff order to get it to work with Primal Scream.

Sgt_Hart
07-21-2012, 10:46 AM
My QA solution is to nuke them from orbit and start over.

Just saying.. So far that's the best solution proposed from turbine.

I'm cool with that.

Xynot2
07-21-2012, 11:03 AM
you left out barbarian rage

Yan_PL
07-24-2012, 01:16 PM
It's still doing Shaken when it wears off even on Lamania U14.2. I just tried it.

It works with Barbarian Rage now though. Both the regular and Past Life one. Just have to memorize a new buff order to get it to work with Primal Scream.

it makes sense so, as primal scream adds con, and con adds to Barb rage duration. YAY.

Yan_PL
07-24-2012, 01:26 PM
My QA solution is to nuke them from orbit and start over.Anyone else find this funny in context of Madstone being created as a result of magic Cataclysm similar in results to nuking from orbit? Well, this should make Madstone even more powerful!

Wraith_Sarevok
07-26-2012, 12:09 PM
-- Even worse: Madstone melee speed overrides haste (which is 15% for melee), causing you to attack slower then intended.



Huh???

I just tried the boots out on live U14.2 and they don't override Haste. The devs added a new "attack speed" modifier icon next to the BAB counter. When you mouse over, it shows that Madstone gives +10% melee attack speed bonus and Haste gives +15%. If you cast Haste followed by Madstone, you still end up with +15%.

Then if you check the effects log, you'll get a mesage saying something like this:

(Effects): You have multiple effects granting an Enhancement bonus to Melee Attack Speed that do not stack. ( Madstone Rage and 95 Potions of Haste )

You can also visually test your swings in game with both orders: Haste followed by Madstone and Madstone followed by Haste. The result is always the same for me. My character swings at the Haste speed of +15%.

Maybe this was a bug that you discovered on Lamania U14.2? It seems to be working properly now.

Shade
07-26-2012, 01:35 PM
Huh???

I just tried the boots out on live U14.2 and they don't override Haste. The devs added a new "attack speed" modifier icon next to the BAB counter. When you mouse over, it shows that Madstone gives +10% melee attack speed bonus and Haste gives +15%. If you cast Haste followed by Madstone, you still end up with +15%.

Then if you check the effects log, you'll get a mesage saying something like this:

(Effects): You have multiple effects granting an Enhancement bonus to Melee Attack Speed that do not stack. ( Madstone Rage and 95 Potions of Haste )

You can also visually test your swings in game with both orders: Haste followed by Madstone and Madstone followed by Haste. The result is always the same for me. My character swings at the Haste speed of +15%.

Maybe this was a bug that you discovered on Lamania U14.2? It seems to be working properly now.

It only happens occoasionally like many bugs in this game. I can't find steps to reliable reproduce it either, but i've had it happen several times randomly just running around the forest watching my log.

Dragaer
07-26-2012, 08:45 PM
I can verify that when madstoned on Granfmaster of flowers you cannot use the Lilly Petal and Orchid Blosom while you can still use when madstoned all the rest abilities like Drifting Lotus and Scatering Petals .

It is buged .

This is still true.

Primal scream still not working either.

woot.

Shade
08-26-2012, 06:17 AM
U15 Update: (op updated too)
You can now use pretty much everything except spellcasting with madstone active. Yay! Thanks for that.

However, all is not well:
The bug i've clearly pointed out in the screenshot in the OP is still not fixed. Please fully fix madstone boots. You've come this far turbine, why not go for the full 100% fix.

LightBear
08-31-2012, 07:05 AM
Madstone was fixed, would be nice if they do the same for bloodrage.

Shade
12-08-2012, 01:13 AM
Madstone was fixed, would be nice if they do the same for bloodrage.

Sadly it is not really fixed.

Half way fixes are not that impressive to me. Not exactly good QA to only fix things half way.

And for such an iconic, vastly used and loved item, it really deserves to be properly fixed.

Outstanding bugs to recap:
- Does not grant the listed melee haste bonus correctly.
- Still incorrectly has the 30 seconds shaken debuff attached to it after it expires, which was specificl said it was removed by a dev.

I mean seriously, it's been several years. Several hundred posts and reports about these bugs, and you STILL no effort is made to fix these fairly simple bugs. Would likely take a good dev no more then an hour to fix as it's simply a matter of changing 10% to 20% and removing some inproper code.

DDO QA. Fixing things only half way since 2006..

verad
12-08-2012, 10:08 AM
Cannot use druid wolf and bear attacks while Madstoned....add to list!

Missing_Minds
12-08-2012, 10:15 AM
DDO QA. Fixing things only half way since 2006..
If QA is fixing things, no wonder the game has the bugs it does.

Ivan_Milic
12-09-2012, 09:33 AM
Sadly it is not really fixed.

Half way fixes are not that impressive to me. Not exactly good QA to only fix things half way.

And for such an iconic, vastly used and loved item, it really deserves to be properly fixed.

Outstanding bugs to recap:
- Does not grant the listed melee haste bonus correctly.
- Still incorrectly has the 30 seconds shaken debuff attached to it after it expires, which was specificl said it was removed by a dev.

I mean seriously, it's been several years. Several hundred posts and reports about these bugs, and you STILL no effort is made to fix these fairly simple bugs. Would likely take a good dev no more then an hour to fix as it's simply a matter of changing 10% to 20% and removing some inproper code.

DDO QA. Fixing things only half way since 2006..

Did they fix the madstone bug when you die with madstone rage you get rezzed and you immediately die again because of it?
Happened to me yesterday on live,dont know if its fixed on lam.

Krelar
12-09-2012, 10:12 AM
Did they fix the madstone bug when you die with madstone rage you get rezzed and you immediately die again because of it?
Happened to me yesterday on live,dont know if its fixed on lam.

I must have missed that bug. Explains what happened to me yesterday though. (Also on live) :(

Ivan_Milic
12-09-2012, 04:51 PM
I must have missed that bug. Explains what happened to me yesterday though. (Also on live) :(

I think its been here since u15.

Krelar
12-09-2012, 05:36 PM
I think its been here since u15.

Quite possible, This is the first time I've played this particular character since the expansion came out.

Ivan_Milic
12-11-2012, 09:02 AM
Cant wait to see what new "features" will come with epic Madstone boots.

Dolphious
12-12-2012, 12:36 AM
Should have just made the damn things give a flat run-of-the-mill +4/+2 "madstone" bonus to con/str (or whatever) ages ago and stopped wasting time on it. The proc effect is cool and all, but how much wasted time is it worth when we have so many problems?

Shade
12-12-2012, 10:18 AM
Should have just made the damn things give a flat run-of-the-mill +4/+2 "madstone" bonus to con/str (or whatever) ages ago and stopped wasting time on it. The proc effect is cool and all, but how much wasted time is it worth when we have so many problems?

Matter of opinion if fixing bugs is time wasted or not. It certainly isn't imo. Especially for bugs that affect such a large number of players that many people want to see fixed.. I mean this is the number one most replied topic on the bug forums for a reason, people use these boots and want them to work correctly.

And imo it would hardly take any decent dev that much time to change a simple melee haste values from 10 to 20, and remove some invalid code to fix the shaken effect.

Not seen the death after rez bug from the boots, tho i have from other effects.. I'll research it an add to OP if i can reproduce.

Ivan_Milic
12-12-2012, 08:34 PM
Its easy to reproduce it,here are 2 pics to show how it works.
On first 1 mobs killed me but it says due to con bonus decreasing.
On second pic I get raise dead from my hire,I click yes and it instantly kills me again.
Whats bugging it probably is that when Im dead on first pic the Madstone rage buff is still on me even though Im dead.

http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/5995/20121213032916.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/35/20121213032916.jpg/)


http://img546.imageshack.us/img546/6963/20121213032950.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/546/20121213032950.jpg/)

Ivan_Milic
01-17-2013, 05:47 AM
Can anyone check if the bug I wrote about was fixed.

Shade
01-18-2013, 12:03 PM
Can anyone check if the bug I wrote about was fixed.

Did a quick test in U17 and it appears some bugs, but not all were fixed:
- Both forms of madstone rage are removed upon death, so the Die - keep rage - get rezed and die again due to losing rage upon res bug seems fixed.
- Shaken debuff is indeed fixed (also in rls notes).
- Melee Haste giving the wrong value bug remains.

-Zephyr-
01-18-2013, 04:14 PM
Did a quick test in U17 and it appears some bugs, but not all were fixed:
- Both forms of madstone rage are removed upon death, so the Die - keep rage - get rezed and die again due to losing rage upon res bug seems fixed.
- Shaken debuff is indeed fixed (also in rls notes).
- Melee Haste giving the wrong value bug remains.

Is the boots effect a different effect from the one bestowed when being hit by creatures in the madstone crater ?
Because both myself and a Seer I was defending got the shaken effect bestowed on us when a madstone rage we had after being hit by minautors ended.

Ivan_Milic
01-18-2013, 04:16 PM
Is the boots effect a different effect from the one bestowed when being hit by creatures in the madstone crater ?
Because both myself and a Seer I was defending got the shaken effect bestowed on us when a madstone rage we had after being hit by minautors ended.

They probably just fixed the boots rage and not quest one.