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msdesign
06-26-2012, 03:28 PM
I've noticed a few times, new players starting LFMs with large level limits for their own. I tested just to see for myself, and the thing is: the game always make a default LFM with -2 and +2 level range. Say I'm a lvl 3 character, the game makes the level range for the group starting from 1 to 5. This is a very bad concept-design fault, because it makes the party non-streak friendly. Not to mention the high xp cut the lvl 1 player will get, if an inexperienced lvl 5 player comes in. Eventually experienced players *may* enter the party or send a tell and restrict the party to 1~3, 2~4, or 3~5. But most new players don't have that luck.

Everyday new players arrive at DDO, I assume, and if they start with these pre-made LFMs, they can get the worst DDO has to offer: bad UI design and funcionality.

But thats just me.

Tshober
06-27-2012, 12:44 PM
Your main complaint seems to be that new players will not have optimal streaks if they use the default level ranges in LFM. I don't think streaks are meant for new players. I believe they are meant for vets who are playing a new character or TR's.

Cyndrome
06-27-2012, 12:53 PM
Streaks are definitely not made for new players. I would not click on the LFM you described, but it has nothing to do with elitism. Anyone playing through the first time on a level 3 character is not going to have any fun playing with me on a TR.

varusso
06-27-2012, 12:58 PM
Your main complaint seems to be that new players will not have optimal streaks if they use the default level ranges in LFM. I don't think streaks are meant for new players. I believe they are meant for vets who are playing a new character or TR's.

No the main complaint he seems to be fronting is that the 4-level-range means a powerlevel penalty for the low-end player if a high-end player joins (IE: his example of a lvl 5 and a lvl 1). In ADDITION, depending on the level of the party leader vs the quest level, it also may incur a streak suppression.

Tshober
06-27-2012, 03:41 PM
No the main complaint he seems to be fronting is that the 4-level-range means a powerlevel penalty for the low-end player if a high-end player joins (IE: his example of a lvl 5 and a lvl 1). In ADDITION, depending on the level of the party leader vs the quest level, it also may incur a streak suppression.

Meh, he mentioned the streaks first but you are correct that the more important problem is a PL penalty. But I guess my thoughts are new players who are just learning the game should not be overly worried about optimal exp per hour anyway. They have a lot to learn, and hopefully enjoy, before that should even become relevent. Optimizing exp per hour is for your 2nd character or first TR. The first one should be for pure enjoyment of the game and learning how to play well.

I don't object to the OP's suggestion for default changes, but I also don't think new players are hurt by having it the way it is now to any degree that we should be concerned about.

varusso
06-27-2012, 04:48 PM
Meh, he mentioned the streaks first but you are correct that the more important problem is a PL penalty. But I guess my thoughts are new players who are just learning the game should not be overly worried about optimal exp per hour anyway. They have a lot to learn, and hopefully enjoy, before that should even become relevent. Optimizing exp per hour is for your 2nd character or first TR. The first one should be for pure enjoyment of the game and learning how to play well.

I don't object to the OP's suggestion for default changes, but I also don't think new players are hurt by having it the way it is now to any degree that we should be concerned about.

I run PUGs alot, so I constantly hear newbies squeaking up with "why didnt i get any XP?!?" (usually on a favor run). The earlier they learn about the intricacies of the XP system, the less likely they are to get boned by it. I have personally never liked the level spread on the default LFMs either, in large part because folks are either too lazy (or too new) to change it, and I dont want to deal with it when someone overlevel joins and all the drama ensues. Realistically, I think it should default to 1 above PL and 1-2 below, avoiding alot of issues at the same time. Ive just never been bothered ENOUGH by it to bring it to the forums :D

msdesign
06-28-2012, 05:04 AM
No the main complaint he seems to be fronting is that the 4-level-range means a powerlevel penalty for the low-end player if a high-end player joins (IE: his example of a lvl 5 and a lvl 1). In ADDITION, depending on the level of the party leader vs the quest level, it also may incur a streak suppression.

That is my point, yes, more than the streak. I don't mind not having streak on my first life toons, but whatever toon I'm using, I avoid PUGs with players 4 or more levels above me (unless I'm zerging quests for favor to help, or to be helped); when I'm questing for fun and xp, I like to pay attention to the player lvl range in the LFM. I have not joined a few already just because the leader didn't pay attention to that level range, and ended up with a LFM for players within 5 different levels. If im a lvl 15 player, I don't want to play with some lvl 20. And I've seen of these too...

I'm talking about the concept behind this. If DDO has that lvl range system for quests (1~3, 6~8, etc) to optimize and balance gameplay, then why do they make default LMs twice of that? Shouldn't those default values be consistent with quest level-related mechanisms?

Reminds me some situations as in some explorer areas with quests that, in elite, allow players from a lvl above the explorer area limit (like Cerulean Hills, max lvl 4, but both quests inside are lvl 3, so 5 on elite - Where there's smoke and The Captives). A party waiting to fill, doing slayers and explorers, if they have lvl 3 and 4 players, these will be heavily punished if a lvl 5 enters the area "Ops, I just wanted to quest with you guys, quest allows it"... Yes, but not the area players MUST go through to get to the quest. Awkward at least. This happens in Sorrowdusk Island too, on the second quest chain.

Things like these, and I'm not talking about my personal thoughs on it, as I'm relating pure facts everybody can test here, break gameplay and balance in quests.